I heard recently that the Abbott government was looking to reduce the number of child care placements for working parents, while increasing them for stay at home parents.

Can they not see what the baby bonus has caused, a country that has seen an extreme increases in drop kicks as a direct result of paying adult drop kicks (by age anole) to breed and produce more drop kicks.

By far a better solution would have been to make child care affordable and worth while for working mums or dads, so that the right types were encouraged to multiply.

Of cause il be tagged a racist for this, but the reality is I am in fact correct and while I accept there are many mums and dads who out that money to good use, the reality is there were many more who should never have been encouraged to have kids, especially not with cash incentives as many have only been left with bad memories and an Xbox to show for it, along with unwanted or il cared fir kids.

If this is true I'm afraid you've lost me Mr Abbott.

Ah...rehctub,

Nice to hear you spitting chips in Abbott's direction...was only a matter of time.

Do you have an opinion on his govt increasing our debt by $100 billion dollars?

Recently govt debt increased to $371 billion - up from $273 billion at the time of the last election.

This from the govt who sailed into power on the lie of of debt and deficit disaster - and they've made it much much worse - without anything to show for it (like a recession avoiding stimulus, for instance:)

You ignore such things and all the other debacles - and are jumping mad because you reckon the plebs are being encouraged to breed!

I certainly hope they is not true Rehctub, I will be similarly disgusted if it is. If we are going to pay these women to breed, then pay them to stay home & raise the kids, we surely should not have to pay for them to farm out the day care of those kids.

Of course that is not quite as disgusting as the disingenuous bit of garbage that Poirot posts.

Even a Poirot must know our debt is due to Rudd/Gillard spending, the forward spending they had enacted before being chucked out, & the refusal of the Labor/Greens controlled senate to pass bills to reduce some of that ridiculous forward spending.

We should have become used to such twisted stuff from our radical lefties, but it still sometimes takes my breath away. I have to wonder if any of them actually believe the garbage, & if any one reading it actually believes it. Could our education system actually produce people so dumb that they do fall for it, or dose it actually turn some left leaning folk away?

Lol!...Hasbeen...you're really reduced to a ranting character these days aren't you.

No real substance other than to label anything you don't like as "garbage"!

Yep...Labor acted early and powerfully to institute a stimulus which saved Australia from recession, guaranteed us a triple-A rating from three agencies and continued our growth.

Those actions have been lauded by major economists the world over.

I suppose you and the butcher would have gone along with European countries and instituted austerity in the wake of the GFC.

Weeeeeeee....all those countries did that and promptly slid into recession - and Europe is still trying to sort all that out.

Here's a neat little graph hailing from the time of the election - note all the the post GFC austerity-driven countries and their debt levels...then look at Australia - with its very low debt level.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/3727694/data/possum-graph-8-government-debt-as-gdp-data.jpg

I mean - have a look at it! - that's what the stimulus did for Oz - and that's what austerity did for all the debt laden European countries on that graph.

(economically illiterate - some people!)

Poirot, you are flogging a dead horse when trying to change Hasbeen's mind about anything about his beloved Liberals :)

Rehctub and Hasbeen are worried all those 'common' women being paid for 'breeding', with no mention of the common sperm donors impregnating them.

If Abbott lied about giving us his 'signature policy' of generous paid parental leave to middle and high income families, then I doubt he will give a damn about the low income families and their children.

In fact, if we are looking at saving money, and rewarding those who aren't on low incomes, then why not give higher aged pension payments to those pensioners who worked hard to own their own home, and thus won't need rent assistance or state housing accommodation? All those other pensioners should get lower pensions.

Wouldn't that be an incentive to work harder during your lifetime so as not to be such a burden on society Hasbeen, like all those dreadful 'breeding mothers' are?

I really hope you don't actually believe that garbage Poirot, if you do I feel sorry for you.

I have come to realise since being on here, that lying to others is natural for lefties.

Lying to yourself however is actually quite pitiful.

Remember
when it was a criminal offense (expose to moral danger) for the girl under 16 having sex
and babies and (carnal knowledge) for boys for having sex with the girls.
Now they her a cash and social bonuses and school based cribs for the kids.
Ask Noel Pearson? He actively supports underage birth in the communities as
cultural and a faster way to indigenous numbers being able to win government.

Oh dear, the usual labor defenders have been awoken again. It's funny, because I never mentioned labor at all.

The recession saving stimulus, so let's take a look at that.

Just imagine how much better this woukd have been had the money been issued via a restricted card, one where tabacco, grog and gambling couldn't be serviced by the tax payers gift. Furthermore, it should have come with a use by date, meaning it had to be spent on worthwhile goods and services within say three months, or you lost it. That woukd have stimulated the economy, rather than seeing struggling families owning Xboxes and plasmas while dragging on that fag and sculling that Jimmy.

Nothing wrong with the idea, just another wasted opportunity by a useless government.

As for world wide experts, perhaps had they spend more time watching their own back yards they wouldn't be in such a mess.

Baby bonus.
The plain truth is that it would have been far more prudent to support working mothers, rather than losers who received the lion share of the handouts and, who are still losers and still have no real prospects of a future, only they now have underprivileged kids in the loop as well., a stupid stupid government stuff up.

Suze, you need to drop your feminist deffenciveness once in a while. Of cause I'm aware that for every looser mothers theresva looser father in most cases. I also suggest it's not so much their fault as they are simply playing the system.

Home owners grant.
I thought I'd just throw this one in. It should have been a home owners interest free loan, to be paid back in say ten years, or, when the house is either sold or borrowed against.

Using $20K once is just stupid politics.

There little doubt the last twenty odd years in politics has seen our nation set the wheels in motion for self distraction led by the entitlement brigade.

It is all very sad.
The Labour Party is being driven by the greens into a stance further
to the left than it would normally stand.
The left has been very unethical and hypocritical in its statements
and attitudes and one senator in particular has been really over the top.
That twit she sent from the Med about the sinking wooden boat was
obviously a lie. The enormous amount of freeboard in her photograph
showed her up to anyone who has ever been near a boat.

They must know that wind and solar cannot do the job, yet they want us
to close down coal fired power stations before we have a viable replacement.
Heaven knows that oil is already leaving us now and coal will leave us
soon enough but we need them now to build whatever is the replacement.

Are they really that stupid or do they know this fundamental problem
and do they really want to push us into the middle ages ?

What happened with Hockeys extreme emergency. It hasn't stopped Abbott slipping another 120 billion on the credit card. Then again he did say 60% of GDP in debt would be ok.
Someone doesn't like solar or wind but can't put his finger on an alternative. The days of coal are finished, you may as well get used of it.

doog, we all know why that extra $B is there so it is pointless you
blaming Hockey for it.

I remind you of what Barnaby Joyce said;
"Control your debt or your debt will control you !"

Greece is the latest to come to that realisation.
Greece is just the first and most noticible.
As growth declines the little green botles will fall one after another.

What are you talking about, the liberals are in power. Green bottles!.
Australia has stagnated and all because nobody trusts this government. They have a record breaking run on telling lies, how can that be good for any sort of consumerism.
Abbott has mentioned a DD election, so lets get on with it, and get this country moving again.
Two years and no gains whatsoever. I don't believe why they are still there.
Tell us why they have not addressed the debt problem, and don't blame it on forward predictions, as that is all they are, all govt's make forward predictions. Solar has a life of it's own and unstoppable, with no maintenance and gigantic guarantees it's a winner for all owners of an array.

Dear me doog, you are indeed rusted on.
My reference to little green bottles is a song Little Green Bottles
hanging on the wall.
You said;
Solar has a life of it's own and unstoppable, with no maintenance
and gigantic guarantees it's a winner for all owners of an array.

That is fine except that all those enthusiests never take into account
the one thing that makes solar and wind a failure.
Energy Return on Energy Invested.
Forget the money that is not relevant.
If it takes more energy to build, install, maintain than the energy
produced then it is a failure.
Anything with an ERoEI less than 7 is considered to be a failure and
a waste. Wind is marginal at about 10 and solar a failure at 4.

However if you add backup to the system then the ERoEI falls to
fractional levels with solar at about 0.4 and wind about 2.
You must have backup because the wind is often very light at night.

We all know you can build bigger and bigger systems but because of
ERoEI they cannot even build a new energy regime just using solar & wind.

This is the crunch point, we must have a new energy regime but at
present we only have coal, oil & gas to do the job.
Without a new regime, whatever it is, we will be back in the middle ages.

Back to politics, neither party is prepared to face the above reality
even though they have been told. They know better don't they !

Any policy that encourages mothers to mother their children is a good policy. Putting kids in state run and state funded institutions is idiotic. They receive enough social engineering from the secularist/feminist/homosexual now. Let mums do what comes natural to them and mother their children.

You can't have something for nothing. What you are saying about energy used for energy gained, is a pie in the sky. No such thing as perpetual motion so there always will be a cost.

I don,t believe in rusted on leanings, i see what happens here and now.
We were promised open govt, so where did that go.

The only ones that will end up with grid power will be big business and change deniers.

This govt, is doing it's best to dumb down the community for reasons that do not do any thing for our future.

If you read the Canadian news, what happens there Abbott says that's a good idea and try's to do the same here. He does not have any clues of his own, which is dangerous.

Doog said;
You can't have something for nothing. What you are saying about energy
used for energy gained, is a pie in the sky. No such thing as
perpetual motion so there always will be a cost.

Sorry Doog, you misunderstand, it is not perpetual motion, that is
impossible. It is a measure of an energy system.
It always takes energy to build a wind turbine, it takes energy to
manufacture the steel needed for the structure, it takes energy to
manufacture the copper wire that goes into windings of the alternator.
It takes energy to transport from factory to site.
It takes energy for maintenance men to drive to the site and to
manufacture their trucks.
Even the food the wind factory workers and their families eat has an energy component.
Some even argue that local concil rates, which have an energy
component have to be taken into account.
The council garbage truck has to pick up the rubbish from the wind machine factory.
etc etc etc.
When you add it all up you need to get better than 7 times the energy
out than the total of the energy used over the lifetime of the machine.
So you can see it is anything but perpetual motion.

Two problems, Bazz:

Firstly the EROEI of solar and wind is much higher than you say it is.

Secondly the claim that it needs to be at least 7 is so ridiculous that I struggle to comprehend how so many otherwise intelligent people still believe it. It is cost, not EROEI, that's a limiting factor.

In the early stages of R&D, EROEI is of course crucial, as at low values the technology is only suitable for niche applications. But we've long passed that stage. Now it's a trivial statistic that a few people attach a lot of undue importance to. Worse still, some people fudge EROEI figures, including inputs that are nothing to do with energy, in order to make it look unviable.

NBN Co launches Fibre to the Building technology
31/03/15
Using the multi-technology-mix NBN Co aims to connect eight million homes and business, providing wholesale download data rates of up to 25 Mbps to all premises and at least 50 Mbps to 90 per cent of fixed line premises as soon as possible.
ADSL 1 is capable of up to 8Mbps, and ADSL 2+ is capable of up to 24Mbps.
They have discovered fiber to the premise exists. The system is going to be a dogs breakfast.
How much cost is it up to now, or is that one of those things we are not allowed to know about. You must admit this govt is running a shady existence. I don,t think it will be healthy in the long run

Aiden, we discussed tis previously. The curve rolls over so far that
below 7 it is almost verticle. BTW any sign of those higher output cells ?

Doog, I think it was always expected that for multi story blocks of
home units they would run fibre to the basement and run something else
up the risers to the premises on each floor.
Not sure what they are doing, it would be easy to connect to the phone
lines in the basement.
Very cheap way of getting a really high speed connection.
Office blocks would be more complicated because of PABXs.

Anyway, the real problem is the servers at the remote end.
All the NBN will do is provide faster packets with longer time between packets.

"Malcolm Turnbull sacked the NBN Co board because they didn't agree with him," he said. "A year and half later, Turnbull's hand-picked replacement has come to the same conclusion - his second-rate copper NBN is a dud.
Mr Turnbull has also previously said that his technology is designed as a stepping stone on the path to connecting more premises directly to fiber – a move critics say will cost more time and money.

We have a stepping stone technology wow what does that mean a second round of NBN at a later date.

No good trying to fool everybody is there. We have a dud.

Doesn't matter, as I said;

Anyway, the real problem is the servers at the remote end.
All the NBN will do is provide faster packets with longer time between packets.

Bazz, what curve are you referring to?

BTW ITYM lower input cells.

Aiden,
There are a number of papers on this, but here is one link I
kept on the subject.
As it goes over the knee of the curve there is a point of opinion as
to what point it beomes pointless.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8625

Oh I see , Bazz — someone graphs a rather trivial mathematical relationship, runs the horizontal axis backwards and calls it a cliff, and you fail to notice that it isn't actually a cliff.

Meanwhile back in reality, energy invested is often a small fraction of value invested, so when comparing viability it's stupid to ignore this act in favour of a totally arbitrary EROEI threshold.

And of course the EROEI measure ignores energy consumed. When that's included, the figure for fossil fuels drops below 1. Why do you not see that as a more important limitation?

Aiden;
And of course the EROEI measure ignores energy consumed.

To what energy consumed are you referring ?
At what point is it consumed ?
Are you referring to what goes out into the grid ?

Is it not obvious from the context? I'm referring to the energy content of the fuel that gets burned to generate electricity.

Doog........so lets get on with it, and get this country moving again.

What do you mean when you say moving again? Are you suggesting we hand the keys to that X union thug?

I recall the only movement from all labor governments since Bob has been backwards. Is this what you're suggesting?

As for your solar dream, do you honestly think the coal/ gas power generators are going to sit back and watch solar take a strong hold?

Runner, what is your preference for populating this nation, teenagers hitching up with dropkicks to produce more drop kicks, or encouraging working mums to have children knowing they can afford to return to work without being penalized?

Aiden, I thought that was what you meant, but <1 is far lower that I
find feasible I wasn't sure that was what you meant.
If fossil fuels are so low, how have we been able to build the type
of industrial society we have.
The figures I have seen are 10 for oil and 30 for coal.
The figures for 1930 were 100 for oil and 80 for coal.

Given the rising costs of finding and developing new oil fields all
that seems to match up quite well with the current eroei of oil.

Rechtub well you must admit the Abbott legacy is not just extremely large in $ terms, he has presided over an economy in stagnation. Consumer confidence is in the doldrums. All he has done is aided the Chinese to import all sorts of rubbish into AU.
A govt; run in secrecy at a cost we are not allowed to know about. An election fought on untruths which for the life of this parliament assured we do not progress. The election was fraudulent to aid the person it most advantaged.
If this was an experiment it has failed miserably, and at our expense. Abbott acknowledging that 60 % of debt to GDP would be ok, at the same time Hockey saying we are in a fiscal catastrophe and needs urgent fix.
I am afraid your Coal Gas generators will have no other choice than to accept that if they don,t get on the wagon they will be left behind, no matter how much money Abbott throws at them. It has gotta be crook when we have a govt; hell bent on saving a national essential service commodity from losing market share.
Your union thug, is what big business needs to toe the line, or else you have the rignhearts wanting to import cheap workers so they can have more billions. So you have to be careful of what you need in society to get the balance right. Too much one way or the other and no one goes anywhere.
We have already been through the work-choices debacle, and that is what happens when the balance tips to far to the right. You could say we are in a state of limbo until we have a fresh election to clear the air and get this nation moving again.

All I can say to you doog is dream on.

As for work choices, do you know anyone who was directly effected? And, if you do, were they good at their Job?

You see many forget that during the work choices era the country was literally booming and, if any employer took a big stick to a good worker, the worker simply went next door where their skills/efforts were appreciated and rewarded.

It's my suspicion that those most opposed to work choices were made up of two key groups , those who simply can't stay out of another persons business and poor workers, most of whom were very comfortable with the protection from their unfair dismissal laws that were designed to protect dinosaurs.

In fact, I'm not sure of your age, but if you're 50+ like me you will remember the boost business confidence received when Howard won in 96 and watered down these ridiculous laws. Personal confidence soon followed.

As for how we are going today, just imagine what great shape we would be in had the punters not taken the Kevin 07 gamble. A classic example of sucked in by media spin and union slush funded scare tactics.

Anyway, the punters now have what they deserve but unfortunately rather than take the blame, they are looking to lay blame elsewhere, as is typically the case.

It's a tough ask to leave a nation with ZERO DEBT, then reiherit it with hundreds of billions of debt, forward unfunded spending commitments and a mining sector that was severely scared off by Rudd and co.

Bazz, I can't believe you didn't know the energy content of fuel is greater than that of the electricity it generates!

EROEI figures normally ignore the energy content of the fuel in favour of the energy required to dig it up.

Of course it is, and the difference is in the loss & efficiency of the machine.
The point is to get that energy you have to spend energy.
The incumbant energy is there for free except for the energy expended
in getting it out. The ratio of energy out to the getting it out
energy is what counts.

Not sure what dream on supposed to represent Rechtub.
What you say is all in the name of defence which gains nothing, you should write some facts about your defendants accomplishments to this nation. Anyone can deny truth, just ask Abbott he is an expert.

100 billion $ is not an amount to be proud of especially when we are in a catastrophic debt burden. O the predictions, the best of predictions are just that, it doesn't mean predictions have to come true. Lets remember Abbott is calling the shots.

We need a DD election as we were promised 2 years ago.

doog,

"100 billion $ is not an amount to be proud of especially when we are in a catastrophic debt burden..."

You're right, $100 billion is not an amount to be proud of, especially when there's precious little to show for it (like a recession avoiding stimulus)

However, we are not "in a catastrophic debt burden" now or when this mob came to power.

Again, here is a graph from the time of the election:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/3727694/data/possum-graph-8-government-debt-as-gdp-data.jpg

The "catastrophic debt burden" line was the Coalition's "get elected and use the first budget to screw the poor people mantra" - it had no connection with reality.

Btw, rehctub,

I note in the latest Newspoll that Shorten is on the nose - yet two-party referred Labor 53% - Coalition 47% (as per usual)