Dear Foxy,

By sealing their fate the AFP knew they would not have to deal with them in the future. It is quite common for those either committing crimes, pursuing those who commit crimes or defending those who commit crimes to seek another jurisdiction where the results are more apt to be to their liking. That is what the AFP did.

FOXY...

I don't know why the AFP is being pilloried by some on the Forum ? I understand some people blame them for the original plight the so called 'Bali nine' find themselves in ? I understand, Federal authorities; like AFP, Customs, DEFAT, ASIO, ASIS, PSCC, and SACPAV and couple of others, have by some law enforcement charter or convention, have an intelligence sharing agreement with other similar groups, around the world. To blame the AFP for the two executed individuals particular dilemma, is unfair.

On another issue concerning the Death Penalty. I sincerely believe there are a 'few' people on this planet who should be killed, not as a punishment, for the safety of humanity. One such individual I've already described to you and DAVID F some time ago ? So very dangerous, there's probably no appropriate place in which he should be housed ? Still many/most would never agree with me ? Somehow FOXY I think you might be more on my side than I'd ever dare to believe, with this particular fellow ?

OTB,

Can't find out much about Indonesian firing squads, there is plenty of information but most of it contradictory.

The rifle that they probably used is a variant of the FN, SLR in Australia, and made on machinery that we gave them from the SAF, at Lithgow; although they may have bought more since.

Their rifles are in 5.56 mm Nato and the round has an average velocity of 3,050 feet/second in common military loadings and 1,323 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
If the range is 10 metres or less then the above figures would be virtually the impact figures.
Death would be instantaneous, particularly with multiple hits to the heart/lung area.

There is a lot of nonsense about some members of the firing squad having blanks but the soldiers would know if they fired a blank or not and so would the observers, so I think that it is highly unlikely that any blanks are used.

I sincerely hope I'm not reading too much into some threads ? FOXY 'appears' to think the AFP 'owe' the public an explanation for why they took an operational decision to appraise the Indonesian authorities of the activities of the Bali nine ? I offer my profound apologies if I've misunderstood you FOXY ?

In any event if we're to have an effective and proactive policing facility, surely they don't need to run their operational data or 'product' intel. past the public, each and every time, they wish to mount an operation, and allow it to 'progress' ? That's the exclusive domain of Magistrates, in most instances ?

The success or otherwise of modern operational policing often turns on intel, on intel alone ? 'Info' to support a 'search warrant', or a warrant for 'telecommunication intercept' all depends on verifiable intelligence ? This information 'must' satisfy a Magistrate. Even then, he can/may insert limitations on that warrant.

Of course there was no need for judicial oversight on the activities of the Bali Nine. The protocol for allowing both the dissemination of 'product' and permitting that operation to proceed forward, was always predicated on operational imperatives ?

Thank you Foxy,

Regarding the AFP, I think there is room for both yours and o sung wu's positions on their behavior. Co-ordination between agencies of different nations is vital for combating international crime such as drug smuggling.

But this is where I have drawn the line;

Quote;

“WHEN Lee Rush learned in April 2005 that his son Scott was off to Bali, he felt sick.”

“Scott had no money, no passport - as far as his father knew - and a history of drug use. Rush phoned an old lawyer friend, Robert Myers, who voiced his worst fears: that Scott might be travelling as a paid courier to carry drugs.”

“The two men agreed the 19-year-old had to be stopped. Myers rang a contact in the Australian Federal Police and asked him to have Scott intercepted before he left the country, on suspicion of illegal activity. By his account, he was assured this would happen.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/how-the-afp-trapped-the-bali-nine/story-e6frg6z6-1225910600831

I would have thought it was the duty of any police force in this country to 'serve and protect' Australians. Lee Rush rightly thought his intervention as a parent would have resulted in his son being protected from the Indonesian judicial system. Their duty was to him and by extension his son. They patently failed both Lee and Scott and should be rightly taken to task.

O sung wu may of course see things differently but I think Australians have an expectation that agencies are proactive in their enforcement duties but very few would agree that people are sacrificed to meet those ends, I think there is little doubt Scott Rush and to a degree his family were such a sacrifice.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Thank You. You've explained my expectations regarding
our Federal Police much
better than I could have done.
It will be interesting to hear what explanations
will be given by the Federal Police. Julie Bishop
has stated that the Federal Police will explain
at a later date - out of respect to the families
of the deceased. I am not blaming the AFP for their
actions - I am simply trying to understand their
actions.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your concerns - and I understand them.
I'm just trying to get my head around this entire
matter - because I don't fully understand why our
law authorities behaved the way they did - because I
would have thought that their job was to protect
Australian citizens. I am not blaming them for what they
did - simply wanting to know why they did it.