I took my mother in law (nearly 90) to Macdonalds for lunch the other day. A group of 4 teenagers (3 girls and a boy) were intent on holding a conversation at the top of their voices using the vilest language possible. Personally I have heard it all and was quite embarassed on behalf of my mother in law and other elderly people their (not to mention kids). My embarassment converted to anger and I told them if they wanted to spit out diarrhea that they should go to the toilet and eat their meal in there. They were not happy and after a second confrontation they got up and left.

What would you have done? I am not sure I did the right thing and really took no pleasure in it. I came away sad more than feeling any sense of achievement.

Call on the Manager!

Dear runner,

I would have called the Manager.

The staff should have done it.

A loud and vile conversation such as
the one you describe that affects the comfort
of all patrons is the Manager's responsibility.

That sort of behaviour should not be tolerated in
any public space. And I am surprised that neither
the staff nor the Manager handled that
situation and forced you to deal
with it. That's a rather poor show and does not
speak well of that establishment. I'd write a letter
to head-office and complain because you're still
obviously upset by what happened.

runner,

That sounded like 'toss in a can of petrol' diplomacy. ;)

Next time you might consider asking your guest if she would like to move - don't say why because it is embarrassingly obvious - and suggest an alternative. Maybe there is an outside area or perhaps even get bags from the counter (again there is no need for explanations) and saunter off somewhere else close by.

We need to think a few things through as the culture around us changes. It will help to be observant and proactive in the future.

The remaining problem is how to get rid of that unresolved stress that has you still stewing. It was no biggie, let it go. We've all been there.

I think I would have just left myself Runner.

If a business doesn't bother to control behaviour in their premises, I am not prepared to do it for them, & will not waste my time with them.

Not only that, the confrontation obviously spoiled your day, & probably your guests day as well. Best to leave & minimise the effect on your afternoon.

I would have left the place immediately. I always worry these sort of kids could turn violent if you say anything.
Dining in at McDonalds isn't somewhere I would take a 90 year old.
It is always full of noisy kids!

I would take her through the drive-through if she felt like a burger, and drive on to a lovely park, or beach or river to eat there.

Yep - agree with Hasbeen and Suse.

I would have been out of there quicker than you could say "What's the world coming to?"

On this occasion I agree with Foxy and disagree with OTB. Go to the counter and demand to see the manager and request he act. Don't forget to apologize for interrupting the customers being served.

This happened to my wife and myself, when having drinks with another couple at a club. Some blokes nearby were quite roudy and swearing. I am no prude and have drank with construction workers and other blokes, but careful in mixed company. The duty manager soon sorted the blokes out.

Interesting that this subject arose after Foxy's thread about teaching kids manners.

Banjo,

If I was at the club it is probable I would be seeing the duty manager too.

However runner was talking about being with his aged MIL at Maccas. While not looking down on Maccas and similar takeaways, it is a totally different environment and circumstances to a club. I submit that you have to apply judgement and moderate your approach.

There is a high likelihood that the attention-seeking young group who were acting out, could stage an even more ridiculous performance, as three young girls trying to impress one young guy (and vice versa) would be inclined to do.

Sometimes we are better to just give them a bit of distance, knowing that the average time most people spend in a takeaway is relatively short.

Put your guest's needs and comfort first is not a bad rule.

Thankyou all for your responses. It appears speaking to the Manager is the most popular and probably the best response. I do feel sorry for the Managers who are often very young. It would probably be my response if faced with it again. I do feel that leaving is certainly an option but also giving into intimidating behaviour.

Yes Susie taking a 90 year old to Maccas is a bit strange however it was at her request strangely enough.

Years ago, Runner, I'd have done what you did but now-a-days I'd be more inclined to speak to the manager but even doing that could lead to a confrontation outside after you left.

I had the experience of a different kind of annoyance at McDonalds.

A persistent loud beep that pervaded the whole establishment, when i asked the manager what it was he looked surprised and said "What noise?"

I said "That persistent beep".
"Oh! That's the monitor on the deep fry"

I left and a few weeks ago dropped in there and the beep was still at it.
I suppose that people can get used to anything.

<< A group of 4 teenagers (3 girls and a boy) were intent on holding a conversation at the top of their voices using the vilest language possible>>

I would have told them to go back to their Young Labour Conference and discuss their differences there.

Dear runner,

I'm glad you weren't beat up.

david f: I'm glad you weren't beat up.

That should be, "You were lucky you weren't beat up."

Err... What happened to free speech? An' I'm sure your Mother-in-Law isn't that frail. Was she embarrassed or were you embarrassed for her?

Just saying. I don't like that sort of behaviour either but unfortunately that's what we get from some of todays youth. So sad. :-(

david f

'I'm glad you weren't beat up.'

thankyou David f I was glad also although I would of gone done swinging and probably charged if the matter went any further.

Jayb,

'An' I'm sure your Mother-in-Law isn't that frail. Was she embarrassed or were you embarrassed for her?'

I'm not sure what your point is Jayb. My mother in law is in a wheel chair and is very frail. Personally and it appears others are in somewhat agreement (and it was of the vilest standard) this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in the middle of the day in a 'family'restuarant. There were also several small children in the vicinity.

jayb to Runner, Just saying. I don't like that sort of behaviour either but unfortunately that's what we get from some of todays youth. So sad. :-(

jayb out

What would Charlie have done?

Je suis Charlie! I will march against runner's censorship!

This unchecked aggression will not stand.

I think runner hates our freedom. We should ban Christianity before it's too late.

Hi there RUNNER...

What a horrible experience for you my friend, particularly as it all unfolded in the hearing and presence of your aged mother in law, and other law abiding patrons ?

I agree with nearly everyone else here, inform the manager and then leave. Actually the manager (usually just a kid themselves) should have interceded well before you felt it necessary, so obviously the manager may have felt intimidated themselves, but such noisy and aggressive behaviour can be threatening nevertheless ?

You describe feelings, that the matter being 'unresolved' ? Even though you were the only person with the courage to speak to these fools. I believe the advice of both ONTHEBEACH and HASBEEN, is very good indeed ! As they both suggested, just let it go my friend........?

You can be assured these slugs generally 'mouth off' once too often, next thing they remember is peering down at their guts, watching as the 'claret' oozes out of a wound, around the blade of a knife seated deeply in their stomach, howling like babies ?

RUNNER, remember - what goes round, comes round !

Just another example of lack of discipline in our education system where the young are not taught any respect for others and in fact are encouraged in "self expression". I would have got up and said something to the teenagers. However, I would also never have gone to ANY Macdonald's in the first place......and probably one reason why I have become misanthropic!

My mother recently stopped a fight at a McDonalds, a group of kids were acting up, a middle aged guy told them to knock it off, they gave him a mouth full of cheek so he went out to his car and came back in carrying a pinch bar held out of sight behind his back.
The kids couldn't see what was about to happen and my 68 year old Mum did so she stepped in front of the guy and said very loudly " Call the Police, this man has a weapon and he's going to bash these kids!".
He threatened her with the bar, Mum spent 14 years as a prison officer so she's not easily rattled and by this time the group of kids had decided to make a run for the door, they got out alright but the older guy followed them to the car park and Mum didn't go after them.

Seeing that this thread is about the conduct of young people, as was the thread about manners, I thought this link may be of interest.

Parenting is certainly not easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXgoJ0f5EsQ&feature=related

Link should come up automaticly, wonder why not this time, Try again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXgoJ0f5EsQ&feature=related

Jo9m: my 68 year old Mum did so she stepped in front of the guy and said very loudly " Call the Police, this man has a weapon and he's going to bash these kids!".

This is the very reason we have unruly bad mannered kids. Too many Do-gooders protecting them. I guess you were one of them.

Jayb,
Yeah, as a parent I recommend every child have their skull fractured by a short tempered adult in order to build character...ya nong.
My stepfather was there as well, if he'd stepped in the guy would have given him a hiding, my Mum worked in men's prisons including a stint at Pentridge she knows most crims, even violent ones won't usually bash a little old lady. Needless to say we asked that she not do it again.

JOM: Jayb, Yeah, as a parent I recommend every child have their skull fractured by a short tempered adult in order to build character...ya nong.

I never suggested violence, but it was the first thing you thought of. Strange. I would have called the Manager. It's his job to sort these kids out.

Runner,

Have a good look at yourself and where you eat (particularly next time).

I simply would have said nothing and left. Why? You've probably scared these people off from going back to McDonalds even again. This sees:

1. These kids not being able to get potential food poisoning
2. Them not being overweight & wasting life on the couch eating junk
3. Not having to be told by their doctor they're dying from illness

Personally, McDonald's is all about crappy, cheap, unhealthy food and money - your 90 year old mother in law deserves better than that.

Try Subway - at least it has some healthier options on the menu.

I have only read the early posts on this, but a few suggested leaving, I question why should Runner and his mother-in-law have to be inconvenienced by kids behaving badly. If you use the following link to complain, Macca's actually get back to you, and you should score a free burger to boot. I have used it several times. with good results. What is important to remember is McDonald's are delusional about themselves, for example they truly believe they operate "restaurants" when in fact everyone knows they operate junk food outlets. The senior staff, the ones over 17 and almost 18 believe the corporate propaganda, so they can be putty in the right hands.

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/contact_us/restaurant_feedback.html

Runner and others, most clubs have a nice lunch time meal for about $10, some pubs too. Much better value than you know who.

One for the other side!

My son who is a government bus driver was telling me this. Three loud mouthed kids got on, didn't pay, sat right down the back, swearing, feet on seats etc, just being generally obnoxious. After several stops they were the only 3 left on board, about half a dozen stops from the terminus out at the old hospital site near La Perouse. My son flicked the bell off and took the bus up to 60 along Anzac Pde. Next things the young mugs are trying to ring the bell to get off, son speeds past their stop and the next, they are calling out "stop we want to get off" son said "that bell must not be working, try another!". Kid comes running up we wanted to get off, son ok I pull up where its safe....there at the hospital stop (terminus anyway), Gee mister, thanks mister, ha ha they had a good walk back to where they were going, and they were none the wise'er. I told son "be careful"!

Good for you runner. I would have done exactly the same.

A little story you might like to hear, if not ignore it.

I was in uniform years ago, buying some 'sangers' at lunchtime in a local sandwich shop in busy Parramatta shopping centre. I'd walked from the Police Station, (I was on Station duties that week), a distance of 750-800 yards, and I was on my own.

Standing at the counter waiting to be served, I heard words to the effect,

"...what's that 'f...n' stink..."? "...oh a lousy gutless, 'c...t' pig...". "...looks like a pig, smells like a 'f....n' pig..." !

Laughter emerging from these two slugs, while other people were nervously looking around at me, many embarrassed for me ?

It was a weekday and there were two of them, both 'known to police', quite big, aged around 25-28 years ? Those days I didn't even have a hand-held transceiver. I could've 'done' them for 'unseemly words', 'serious alarm and affront' and several other charges, but what could I do on my own ? Mobile phones didn't even exist in those days ?

Some eight or ten weeks later, I was in Castle Hill on a Thursday evening, doing some late night shopping, again on my own, when I saw one of these intellectual giants in the car park ? I spoke to this bloke and of course his tiny brain had not registered any recognition of me. I slowly explained to him, his mother wore Army boots, and his father was a fairy ! Apparently this enraged him somewhat ?

Being taller then I, he came at me pretty hard screaming expletives, thinking he'd picked his mark. Actually this poor soul ended up 'sucking (car-park) concrete'! As they always say, 'revenge' is always best, when served cold !

O Sung Wu, as you know, normally I do not approve of such violent behavior, by police on duty or off duty, but in this case I can only give your action my tick of approval. Gee, they could drum me out of The Greens for that. LOL Thanks for the story.
Some times the worm turns, a while back at the bus stop an old bloke who looked about 90, and 5 stone ringing wet, sitting on a seat. A young bloke lit up a fag next to him. One word led to another and the kid called the the old man a f'n old c, well that was a mistake, the old bloke had a walking stick and did he go to town with it, people had to save the young bloke from a right thumping. I think you would have charged the old bloke with assault, as it was a one sided contest. I told the kid now p off, before he gets stuck into you again, he retreated to the other side of the street, and from a safe distance hurled verbal abuse at all and sundry. Then the bus came and we all go on, minus the kid.

Decent people may not like it, but the minorities and the great unwashed have been allowed considerable concessions and advantage by politicians and governments concerned to secure votes in marginal seats. They have rights! Yours are limited. That is the switch of recent decades. Tres 'Progressive'!

In the case of what used to be regarded as indecent language in a public place, and a lawyer would easily prove a difference between the environment, ambiance and 'public' nature of a licensed club and a fast food outlet, an offender can choose whatever foul language s/he likes and get away with it. I am sure many here would have heard of

'Fs', 'Cs' and whatever else are fine according to magistrates, particularly those appointed under Labor administrations. There are many examples where magistrates have rules accordingly and that includes the foul language, jostling too, that it apparent OK to inflict on police and public servants. That includes ambos, nurses, doctors and so on.

Where a public servant has replied verbally even mildly in kind, that is an open invitation for some magistrates to dismiss alleged manhandling and assault of the public servant by the offender.

I am not going to list cases because there are plenty in all jurisdictions.
to be continued..

continued..

When when you support the rude, baying audiences on talk shows like Q&A who cat-call guests, when you permit the loudest voice to influence your local MLA and you exercise your vote according to habit, that is the deal you end up with. It is the continual minor concessions, although there have been some major changes too in recent decades, that change your social environment and quality of life.

We cannot as a community cut the legs out from under police for instance and then expect them to enforce good order where and when it suits us.

Regrettably, any who put the problem back onto the youthful manager of the fast food outlet, or would lodge a formal complaint to the central office (that would only come back on the burger flippers who desperately need their jobs), are kidding themselves and duck-shoving IMHO. If the manager can sweet talk and bluff the offenders so be it, but the manager would normally have weighted that one up.

A call to the police would be treated as a joke, because offenders know the response (none) for a trivial offence and the response time (too late) where they use a chair or boots on the manager or you.

Frankly it is NOT smart either allowing one's false pride or chutzpah to take over to challenge or 'tell off' offenders. Choose your marks carefully. If an approach is to work at all it must be oil on troubled waters, not petrol. However even a mild approach is a golden invitation for a feral and his/her waiting gang to sort you out too.

Later, a magistrate in an air-conditioned court with top security (and brooking no offence to herself) will, with the benefit of hindsight and huge optimism, inform you that as a citizen it was YOU who should have taken every care and YOU are responsible for contributing to the affray that resulted in your brain damage. Insurers will agree and you are on your own.

unfortunatley otb what you say is true. I know its off the topic but Paul and one or two others suggested that a better place to take old people is a local bowls/football club. While I don't feel strongly about it their is something inside of me that objects to clubs taking Pensioners incomes on poker machines and then giving them a five buck lunch. I knew one guy who worked in a well known Casino who tells me some old women would rather wet their pants than leave the poker machine which is about to give the payout. Funny how many give Maccas the thumbs down on morality but are happy to support the gambling industry. I suppose we all have double standards without realising it.

runner,

Thank you for your very civil response.

I see nothing wrong with Maccas establishments: no-fuss, fast, set menu, reasonable prices and usually clean toilets. Usually there is good, quick access which helps. That is their successful business model.

All decent people feel there is no effective remedy to the incivility that is all too common. Sadly, it is also behaviour that is also modelled by people who regard themselves as leaders and by TV personalities.

It is just a bit unlucky that your visit was marred by inconsiderate, selfish oafs. None of us was on the spot. There is no 'good' remedy.

I tend to avoid most clubs because the gambling is too intrusive. I share your view that it adds to social problems.

You are right about double standards. There is a lot of compartmentalised thinking around.

G'day there PAUL1405 & ONTHEBEACH...

Hi there PAUL1405...

What you say is quite true. Violence usually begets violence as the saying goes. My actions were foolish, though I was younger and less 'controlled' then in later years, nevertheless if I'd really hurt this bloke the ramifications would've be enormous for me at least. I'd have done my job, and career. Moreover I could've ended up in the 'slammer', because in those days, I had regular professional fight, usually at the South Sydney Juniors Leagues Club (with the express permission of the Commissioner of Police) so the ramifications, as I said, could've been very serious indeed ! A moment of pure satisfaction, would destroy completely, a lifetime career, as well as ruining my good name and character !

Hi ONTHEBEACH...

Your comments concerning Magistrates, is again spot on my friend ! One '..............' a former Magistrate, would never accept a 'charge proved' of 'unseemly words' or 'offensive language' offered up by police, particularly if the person charged was indigenous ! She stated the F and C word, was in common usage, as such a police officer could not be offended by the use of these words ? She was an absolute shocker, and a disgrace to the image of the entire judiciary ! You can imagine, there were appeals running left, right and centre.

o sung wu,

Agreed. A shocker.

Anyone who eats in a MacDonald's (or any other junk food place) has only themselves to blame.
You should not be eating this rubbish, go and find a cafe that sells wholesome food and save the health system another battle to save a life later.

Personally I don't have a problem taking anybody to a Maccas. Generally speaking they're clean, well lit, and relatively safe. This notion of being politically correct and taking one's relative to a 'good wholesome place' in order to obtain 'good wholesome food' is garbage !

Without the plethora of all the 'fast food' outlets in our city, where else would our emergency workers get a decent feed, when on nights ? Often they're tired, probably been to some traumatic event, a fatal or something....? While it's true my wife packed a terrific meal for me when on night shift, sometimes because of the exigencies of some emergency event, you couldn't very well eat it, or it became inedible after some time ! I say God bless all the Fast Food outlets or the 'Greasy Joes' we sometimes called them ?

'Anyone who eats in a MacDonald's (or any other junk food place) has only themselves to blame'

who said anything about the food Robert. oh that's right you just needed to vent your petty hatred.