With the recent threat of terrorism against us by a home grown terrorist, I feel it's time to decide, do we become pro active and rid our nation of these thugs, or, do we sit back and let it unfold.

My thoughts are that we have already waited far to long to act.

rehctub,

Just what do you mean by "proactive"?

Details please?

Dear Rehctub,

Poirot asked:

"Just what do you mean by "proactive"?"

But what worries me more is: Just what do you mean by "our nation?"

I don't approve of this concept of "nation", but here is a case where personal safety is at risk and perhaps the one legitimate role of the state is to secure its citizens against thugs - all thugs. If keeping the peace requires to get rid of them then so be it.

This is all a bit of a shock-jock outburst, don't you think rehctub?

You would find quite a few radio stations happy to broadcast your thoughts to a particular demographic, without feeling the need to question you on what you mean.

But I suspect we might be a tougher audience here.

>>...it's time to decide, do we become pro active and rid our nation of these thugs, or, do we sit back and let it unfold.<<

Who exactly are "we" in this equation?

What do you mean by "become pro active"?

What do you mean when you say "rid our nation"?

Who are "these thugs"?

What are you contemplating will happen if we "let it unfold"?

Please, fill in the gaps for us. It will help us decide whether you are actually promoting a particular course of action, or just mumbling into your beer.

Way more people are killed by tobacco addiction than terrorism.
So should we wage a war against the pushers of tobacco? Or is it easier just to be lead along by the media?
Of course we should fight terrorism and those that advocate it but there are plenty of other things that kill and maim people across the globe that makes terrorism pale into insignificance by comparison.

<<Way more people are killed by tobacco addiction than terrorism>>

Yes Crowie,but the real cost is far more than the numbers killed.

The real cost includes:
--the self censorship of the media to ensure we dont offend them.
--the dumbing down of academic/school studies to ensure we present their creed in a positive light.
--the creation of special academic seats to specialize in their history/culture -- and what amounts useless guff.
--and taxpayer funding of "moderates" groups/centres to counter the terrorist elements--many of whom a little better.
And i am sure others can add more hidden costs...

With such limited thinking you are letting your gutless political correctness get in the way of a truly effective proactive response, rehctub...

[Yes, I know proactive response is an oxymoron, but I didn't start this idea of yours.]

Whatever your suggestion is does not go far enough!

Having thought long and hard about it we have to confront the reality that all of the hostages-taken, police-held-at-bay terror created crises in Australia in recent memory have been perpetrated by males.

Numbers of them by males with beards.

But since almost all males have the potential to grow beards it will be weak-willed to only rid our nation of the currently hirsute since this cannot address the risk of those cunning enough to want to create violence - or who in the future might create violence - and who know how to shave.

Being unable to look into someone's heart to know their intentions we can never-the-less look between their legs.

Some people just can't stomach to see what is in front of their faces and as you say, "...we have already waited far to long to act".

Not even the gender dysphoric should be excused the nation's purge. We must be absolutely resolute.

Yours post-operatively, WilhelminaTrevor

@ Trevor

<<Yours post-operatively, WilhelminaTrevor>>

Perhaps you should have signed off as Willyminus Trevor...probably closer to reality ;)

Yeah what's pro-active mean?
In Nationalist circles that kind of talk is a big flashing red light, people who go on about "dealing' with ethnic minorities or whatever are automatically pegged as agent provocateurs.
There's a group active in Sydney at the moment who have been deliberately trying to provoke trouble, annoying Chinese,Muslim and Jewish people and interfering in the Save Penrith action group,it seems likely that they're either working for the state or for other parties with an interest in raising ethnic tensions.

Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_gu

I don't subscribe to the "false flag" model of state security provocation but it's definitely how they do business:
http://noncounterproductive.blogspot.com.au/p/john-tyndall-on-harold-covington-and.html

Poirot, by being pro active, I mean act now rather than wait for the enevidable to happen. We have already had our first terrorist attack, and we are now being threatened of more. Ban Islam from our country simply because it harbors serious violence.

If one chooses to be a Muslim, that's fine, find somewhere to do so, but while multiculturalism may be a great thing, mulsimism is a dismal failure where ever you choose to look. They do not want to just live here, they want to take over and while I accept there are plenty of decent Muslims, the fact is they draw their beliefs from the same faith/religion as extremists.

I say ban the likes of the burqa dismantle mosques and shut down Muslimism in our country. Either we take these 'pro active' steps now, or we pay the price of being 're active', the choice is ours because the intentions of Muslim extremists, many being so called Australians is quite obvious.

Let's face it, although we have recognized that gay marriage is real, and does happen in certain countries, we have banned it here, so why can't we do the same for Muslimism.

Crowie,
Far more people choose to smoke tobacco than are killed by terrorists. However far more persons chooses not to be murdered by Islamic terrorists than choose to smoke tobacco.

When Islam first enters a democratic country they are led by the Islamic thugs to break down the social cohesion as has happened in Africa.

My God, didn't that bring out the 3 monkeys. Hear nothing, see nothing, do nothing. Meanwhile the ship is sinking.

Some people like to quote History. Usually against Western Culture. Well, Australia, (We) didn't have a Terrorist threat, of any description, until the moslems arrived in numbers.

I don't blame the moslems for this. I blame the Politically Correct & Gullible Overly Sensitive, Etc. The blame for these "Lone Wolf" attacks is entirely on their shoulders. How long before these Lone Wolves band together to form a Pack? When they do & threaten the very people that defended them, then the PC & GOS will demand to be protected from the Pack they helped to create.

The Government has a Policy of keeping the suspects in Australia instead of letting them join their fellow Jihadists in Syria/Iraq. Why? This is really foolish appeasement, this is a chance to rid Australia of the potential Pack. They then MUST never to be allowed to return if they survive. That, is proactive.

This must prove a dilemma for the likes of those on here that support the moslems & their agenda. Should they leave to support the Caliphate or stay & grow one in Australia?

What say you? Poirot, steelie, iftikha, etc, etc.

Note the tactic by the excusers, "What do you mean by this ?"
"What do you mean by that ?", really are they so dumb that they are not
aware of what has been going on around them ?

All this does is divert the discussion to airy fairies instead of real
policies.
What needs to be done is obvious, a restructure of our immigration
policy parameters, ie concentrate on people of origins that have
successfully integrated previously.
That does not require much thought at all.

Remove all those that have as a group resisted integration and indeed
have membership of religious/political assemblies that officially urge separation.

Cancel policy that enables dual citizenship. It was a nice touch
originally and was a happy arrangement until it was abused.
Someone always spoils a good arrangement.

That will do for starters.

Yeah, what we need in Australia is more anonymous internet trolls...

Bazz,

"Note the tactic by the excusers, "What do you mean by this ?"
"What do you mean by that ?", really are they so dumb that they are not
aware of what has been going on around them ?"

Yes, thanks for that - and rehctub,

Can you explain to us your modus operandi for instituting all these things.

Because, as you rightly point out, regarding your proposals...."That does not require much thought at all."

Things that don't require much thought are invariably simplistic - and perfect fodder for blathering online - not so perfect for instituting as legislation.

Yuyutsu,

"perhaps the one legitimate role of the state is to secure its citizens against thugs - all thugs. If keeping the peace requires to get rid of them then so be it." I'm assuming no one at all on this page is a "thug".

What ever happened to the principle, like innocent until proven guilty? The situation has been for a long time, "guilty into proven innocent". Do we want to be going back to past where people would have their heads chopped off or be stoned to death?

One example where this would was a problem was Lindy Chamberlain. One of her daughters died and she was charged in relation to the incident, having to spend over three years in prison. In the last (more recent) investigation by the Norther Territory coroner undertaken, it was found that "the cause of Azaria Chamberlain's (her daughter) disappearance and death was from the result of being attacked and taken by a dingo."

The Northern Territory Government has refused to make an apology on the issue - and if Lindy Chamberlain was "got rid of", I would argue "get rid of us all" - after all aren't we all "thugs" - in some times of our lives? I mean, we get angry or annoyed when we get a Christmas present we don't want, when valentines day is forgotten or when someones birthday isn't remebered.........

I'm waiting for days like those with a phone call from my parent's waiting to get the lecture - telling me what I should be doing and I feel like getting out the something......

P.S Tony Abbott - I'll need a multi million taxpayer funded campaign to stop that. Terrorism solved.

Poirot, of course it is simplistic.
The discussion is at the point of deciding aims.
After you decide what you want to do then you start to talk about
the mechanism to be employed to achieve those aims.

That is normal project development, you do not waste time on discussing
mechanisms until you know what objective is to be implemented.
That is the point where politicians can be useful.

Carts & horses.

NathanJ: I'm waiting for days like those with a phone call from my parent's waiting to get the lecture.

So what you are saying is that your Parents are decent people & you are a disappointment to them.

NathanJ: What ever happened to the principle, like innocent until proven guilty?

Sometimes their own words convict them. Like that Clown in Perth, Thorne & his Cohorts around Australia, preaching Jihad against Australia from the Pulpit. These people should be first on the plane. Next the Jihad Bikies led Jihad Ganges Like the Bandito's & Brothers for life, etc. The Jihadies that want to leave. 10 more stopped from leaving, Courier Mail (17 Jan 15) Page 25.

I can hear it now from the PC & SOG. Oh, they are just poor misunderstood innocents. Well by their protectors, maybe.

That is the point where politicians can be useful. There lies the sticking point. At the moment we do not have a workable govt; so what you say is impossible. We have a PM in exile and probably best left there.

It takes real brain power to come up with workable policy, and that is another sticking point. As we are aware of shots being fired from the hip, all of which rebound and punch holes in the one firing the ammunition.

So at this point in time anything workable is not in the offering, sadly.

Dear Nathan,

<<What ever happened to the principle, like innocent until proven guilty?>>

Most things which the state and its government do are illegitimate and without any moral justification - however, protecting its citizens from harm by others is one of the government's few legitimate roles.

The question of guiltiness and all that rubbish about laws and punishments is wrong and irrelevant, especially when it comes to terrorism: there are people who are out there to attack and kill innocent citizens and they must be stopped before they are able to harm. Enemies must be stopped - not convicted!

That is very different from the case you brought, of wrongly imprisoning a mother who was suspected of killing her baby, primarily because there was no imminent suspicion that she was likely to kill another baby (and secondarily because killing one's own baby, revolting as it is, should be none of the state's business, however that's way off topic).

I'm sorry to say REHCTUB, there's not a lot of pro-active 'stuff' we can do ? It's more of a case of being re-actively prepared rather than being pro-actively ignorant as we've been, thus far ?

You see BUTCH, these people are already living amongst us, and in so doing, they're scheming and plotting operations, both here and abroad. All that Australia can now do, is keep a very close eye on them, and hope like hell, we can plug the leaks, (philosophically speaking) as and when they appear ? And round em' up each time we detect their illegal and subversive activities.

Either detecting them as they proceed abroad for the purpose of partaking in some armed Islamic radicalism, or returning from abroad, having previously engaged in 'armed' Islamic insurgency ?

You see, we've left it all too late, again because of political paralysis or political inertia - one of the same I suspect ! The police and security services, 'DID WARN' successive governments, but none would listen, and knew better ! And now we can see the consequences !

OSW: You see, we've left it all too late, again because of political paralysis or political inertia - one of the same I suspect !

Or Political Correctness.

The police and security services, 'DID WARN' successive governments, but none would listen, and knew better ! And now we can see the consequences !

Appeasement of the PC, Greenies, Do-gooders & their Lawyers for potential votes. When it all goes Pear shaped these Groups deny any influence & it all becomes someone else's fault.

Spot on JAYB, Spot on ! You know mate we're (Australia) are a blithering joke when it comes to law enforcement, we're so terribly weak, we're insipid ? Do I care, not anymore ! An old boss once told me, the public get the coppers they deserve, by the 'quality' and the 'efficacy' of their (public) support ?

O Sung Wu, I don't think any of us will wake up till we are facing an
Australian version of Boko Haram.
On channel 7 tonight, just a few minutes ago they threatened just that !

'Appeasement of the PC, Greenies, Do-gooders & their Lawyers for potential votes. When it all goes Pear shaped these Groups deny any influence & it all becomes someone else's fault.'

You summed it un Jayb. Look at the way the media go at Cory Bernadi. He has been warning of this for years. It amazes me that the fools of Greens/Labour somehow get the press as the 'compassionate ones.'

You are also right that they act dumb and astounded after creating the mess and demand others come up with solutions to clean up. We thought this could never happen in Australia drrrr!

Well they told us that they intend to raise an army to introduce
Sharia Law in Australia and overthrow the government.

It was as blatant as that.
The Attorney General came on after the broadcast and said that the
government will prosecute anyone who breaches the law.
I expect the speaker at that Lakemba meeting to be arrested tonight.

There appears to be a number of moslems in the army, they should be
terminated immediately.

Pericles asked:
Who exactly are "we" in this equation? We are the innocent people who believe in democracy and freedom.

What do you mean by "become pro active"? Root out those who are actively promoting jihad and either put them in jail or if they are not born in Australia citizens, send them packing. The only proof required for deportation is a youtube video, twitter post, facebook rant etc. Being most who preach violence against innocent people in Australia are Muslim... Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan would probably love to take them. Also, let those who want to go fight for ISIS go, on a one way ticket and cancel their passport as they depart. If they sneak back in, send them to Manus Island permanently.

What do you mean when you say "rid our nation"? Are you stupid, what do you think that means.

Who are "these thugs"? Islamic extremists.

What are you contemplating will happen if we "let it unfold"? The extremists will eventually plan and execute another terrorist attack; they will also continue to poison their children's minds thus breeding an ongoing jihad against Australia; they will never be satisfied until Australia is as socially screwed up as England, France and Germany. The evidence is there if you open your eyes.

Perhaps Pericles can share her reasons for wanting Muslim extremists to continue living in Australia (most likely also collecting the dole as they spread their hate). Or if she accepts Muslim extremists are undesirable, explain what we do to neutralise their potential. Maybe Pericles can also explain how doing nothing about the Muslim issue will roll out in the future, including their excessive birth rates.

Bazz, "That is normal project development, you do not waste time on discussing mechanisms until you know what objective is to be implemented."

Not a lot of places where you will get approval or funding for a project where the deliverables are not spelt out a lot more clearly than I've seen so far on this thread.

I'll run with the assumption that the thread is about muslims.

- Is remove all muslims from the country? If so there is a good case to suggest that it is either unachievable or that the cost across a broad range of measures would be catastrophic
- Is it just removing those with criminal convictions or where there is clear evidence of an intent to harm australia?
- Is it leaving the people here but sending the faith underground by dismantling the external signs?

The deliverables as well as some credible estimates of cost and benefit are a valid part of project development (except for pollies making election promises).

R0bert

Here is the Ch7 item.

http://tinyurl.com/m25bup7

Is there any point arguing oh dear they are not all like that.
There is now nothing left to do but gaol or deport.
Sedition, which is what I think the crime is in this case, has a death penalty attached.

Robert
In some European countries the Koran is illegal because it advocates
the killing of Jews and infidels and a number of other acts.
In the EU as a whole it does not comply with European law.
In Holland there is an intention to declare the Koran illegal and
be banned. Also organisations with those aims are also illegal.

I do not know what the law is here but I think there are laws that
could apply especially in Victoria. Perhaps 18c could be used.

Bazz, I think there is some onus on Rehctub to summarize the scope of what he means. Banning the Koran is one possibility (good luck getting rid of electronic copies though) but that does not seem to cover riding (how do you spell that?) our nation of "these thugs".

Overall of the view that none of the variants that I can think of are practical nor am I keen on the likely extra power that laws to enable such a move would place in the hands of government. Some things could be done such removing any migrants who demonstrate a lack of willingness to obey our laws (or who incite others against Australia), beyond that what can be done that does not place all of us at risk.

Brutal measures might seem justified when targeted at some group that seems to be a threat, governments have a history of not giving up those options when they get them and of expanding their reach.

For a little food for thought have a read up on JSOC and how it's operating under Obama (and who some of the critcs are). It appears to be operating as a publicly funded kill squad answering only to the US president in contravention of international law.

The man who needed to close Guantanamo Bay regularly orders extra judicial executions of people outside the US without any trial or independent oversight. Many of the objective might be valid but I'm not all that keen on a global kill operating in secret as a means to making me safer.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-rise-of-jsoc-in-dirty-wars-2013-4

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/03/jsoc-obama-secret-assassins

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/52100170/t/jsoc-shadow-war-terror/

R0bert

Hi there BAZZ...

You mentioned on Ch. 7 this evening, some group or other threatened a Boko HARAM event, and of course what exactly are we (the security forces and police) doing about it ? "...Eh Bazz, you wanna another schooner or a middy mate..." ? that's the Aussie response my friend - Apathy, Lethargy, Disinterest, Indifference, Boredom and Dispassion ! Need I go on BAZZ ?

Oh if we can manage to find someone to tell them of the threat ? A politician perhaps...what did you say BAZZ they're all on holidays, where ? Overseas....? But of course, they're all overseas on the tax payers dollar no doubt ? Well I'll be buggered !

OSW: Oh if we can manage to find someone to tell them of the threat ? A politician perhaps...what did you say BAZZ they're all on holidays, where ? Overseas....? But of course, they're all overseas on the tax payers dollar no doubt ? Well I'll be buggered !

Take a deep breath mate. Remember, "He who panics, dies."

Hi there JAYB...

Mate I'm already dead, I have been for some time, (anatomically at least), I don't think I know it just yet ? It makes you ashamed to think that with all the potentially good blokes we have here in Oz, most of whom are all somewhat impotent, all because our illustrious leaders are either too scared or too incapable of biting the bullet, and do what has to be done ! It's for this reason I believe the West has already lost the ideological battle between the 'Christian & secularists' groups, Vs. the 'Radicalised Islamic' groups ?

Look at poor old France, with a total population of a fraction over seven million adherents to the Islamic religion ? A case of the enemy within ? And the mighty United States of America, with all their advanced technology, they can't begin to assess exactly how many Muslims, actually live within their 'porous' borders ?

Talk of being prepared, sure, we really are aren't we ?

Jatb no I didn't say they were overseas.
Robert I'll read those links tomorrow, want to watch Mad Dogs (and Englishmen).
Hows that for getting priorities right , Hi!.

Yes I am aware of all the difficulties. If the Islamists wait until
their numbers reach a level that they can field a significant army,
then it will take a major military campaign to defeat them.
The ISIS development and Boko Haram are the prototype of what we would
face if it cannot be suppressed at a much earlier stage.
Those two armies came into being in areas with a lot of chaos already
existent. It might not be possible for such an army to come into being
in a place like Australia. Watch what happens in France, if they get
an army together there, then it could happen here.

Actually I would hope that the military colleges of our countries
are doing studies of these movements already.
At some point as the numbers of moslems increases the level of threat
will increase as it has done in France.
The only event that might intersect with such escalation will be the
end of growth and the collapse of the current energy system and the
arrival of a major economic collapse.
The Middle East will be more affected than the west.

Anyway that is my nightmare, whats yours ?

It is too late now. We will not do a damn thing, until we are faced with a situation like the civil war in Beirut.

Then & only then will we act, but I believe we will act decisively once it happens.

The developing situation will be responsible for the spilling of much blood in the not too far distant future.

Actually it would be poetic justice to see a few of the more strident feminists here living under Sharia law.

May be we blokes should join them, rather than resist them.

Bazz, I'm more concerned about the threat posed by out of control government than by the risk of an islamic army in Austalia. Islamic terrorism is a threat but overall less of a threat to our future than governments turning emergency powers into permanant ones.

The tools and resources available to government to monitor people now are far greater than at any time in the past and getting more effective all the time.

I'm not seeing credible proposals on how to deal with the threat posed by islamic extremism within Australia by those who "want to do something". I don't think it can be solved by force, rather I think pro-active by extreme measures will just strengthen the extremist cause.

We do need to deal with proven issues,we should also be placing serious focus on the things that motivate a shift to extremism and working out what we can remove or defuse in that mix. Killarney posted a list thats worth thinking about.

R0bert

Jayb, my post history will show that you and I think alike as I was dumbfounded to think our government was canceling the oasports of these thugs before they left.

....Yeah, what we need in Australia is more anonymous internet trolls... Craig, feel free to contact Graham for my contact details.

Nathan J, the Lindy Chamberland case and the thug that caused the Martin place siege are a poor comparison, because one was suspected of murdering her own child, while the other was guilty of inflicting terror on an entire nation.

Now there's a classic example of us being reactive. That grub was known to police, was guilty of sending hate mail to the families of our dead soldiers and was freed on bail of a very serious crime by some politically correct judge. The proactive approach would have been to revoke his citizenship and get rid of him. We didn't and we paid the ultimate price.

O Sung, I agree 100%, because letting these people in knowing full well their hate against Christianity was possibly one of the dumbest moves we have made.

I agree there's not a lot we can now do, but im sure we can ban the Burqa, we can dismantle Mosques, we can ban Islam from our nation. Anyone who is INVITED HERE should be made leave their baggage at the front gate.

The fact is we allowed these people in and THEY not WE have provided the mechanism for extremists within to invoke hatred on fellow man. They didn't gain their hate from the same school/church/place of worship that I attended. They gained it from the faith they DIDN'T leave at the front gate when they were invited to join us.

Note the words JOIN US.

More than a few echoes from history here.

>>Ban Islam from our country<<

[Give them a yellow armband, so we know who they are]

>>...dismantle mosques<<

[Get the boys together one night, and just knock them down]

>>...concentrate on people of origins that have successfully integrated previously<<

[Aryans, anybody?]

>>...these people are already living amongst us, and in so doing, they're scheming and plotting operations, both here and abroad<<

[Make sure you generate plenty of fear and loathing among the populace]

>>Look at the way the media go at Cory Bernadi. He has been warning of this for years<<

[Get behind a local hero who can lead the fight]

>>In Holland there is an intention to declare the Koran illegal and be banned.<<

[Ban the books you don't like. Actually, making a big bonfire out of them would really send a message]

All of this, in one thread. Very impressive.

Pericles,

Interesting observations.

rehctub,

"They didn't gain their hate from the same school/church/place of worship that I attended."

Are you saying that the place where you gained your hate is superior to theirs?

"They gained it from the faith they DIDN'T leave at the front gate when they were invited to join us."

Oh, righto - I think that answers my question.

Pericles, while I accept that everyone is entitled and free to do what they choose, freedom should not include the right for any group who is invited here to go about removing the freedoms we have enjoyed for decades. This is precisely what Mulsilms as a whole have managed to do, remove our freedoms. The freedom to walk the streets at night in safety. The freedom to go for a coffee with friends. These are now gone, taken from us by either invited guests, or their offspring that they claim to be so called Australians.

They have managed to ban Santa clause from certain schools, even religious instruction, birthday cakes and celebrations, simply because the customs they brought with them were against ours. So rather than our forefathers saying that they needed to accept our ways, they managed to manipulate our leaders into accepting their ways.

This is why I now say enough is enough, we have tried their ways, and it's failed. Not only here, but pretty much anywhere in the world they have been invited to.

What more proof do we need.

The different being, dear Pericles, is that the Jews in Germany weren't bombing Buses, Planes, Trains & Buildings. They weren't massacring people wholesale world wide on instructions from their Religion. They didn't ban women from leaving the house without a male relation. They didn't ban them from driving a car or dancing.

Name a Country the moslems aren't doing that. Very hard to find one. Maybe Singapore.

Letting moslems in was a mistake Australia made & needs to fix immediately. No if's, no buts.

Yes rehctub,

This is a telling point: <<They gained it from the faith they DIDN'T leave at the front gate when they were invited to join us.>>

And it apparently went over the head of some here :-P

Monis and many other kindred souls came to the West claiming they seeking sanctuary from extremism ... we took them at their word .., and now us and France are paying a high price for our nativity

SPQR,

"....and now us and France are paying a high price for our nativity."

That could be the most impressive typo/Freudian Slip I've ever encountered!

Australia has been successful in banning the gathering of some anti-social religions in the past. We only need to ban the meetings of Sunni Muslims in Australia, for it is primarily they who preach hatred of our democratic values.

Josephus,

I wonder how that would go down with the West's bestest buddies and head lopper-offerers Saudi Arabia? Most of the population of that country are Sunni.

Actually, it's the great irony of our times that because the Saudis control the provision of fuel to power our way of life - they're excused from being put in the same basket as the others.

Yep, I think that pretty much sums up the fear and loathing part, rehctub.

>>This is precisely what Mulsilms as a whole have managed to do, remove our freedoms. The freedom to walk the streets at night in safety. The freedom to go for a coffee with friends. These are now gone, taken from us by either invited guests, or their offspring that they claim to be so called Australians.<<

I don't know where you live, rehctub, but here in Sydney I walk the streets at night in safety, and - coincidentally - I have just come back to the office from having coffee with friends.

I will admit, though, to steering clear of drunken footy players in the Cross at 3a.m.

When only two out of every hundred people in Australia are Muslim, the sheer amount of shock-jock fear demonstrated on this thread says an awful lot about our collective ability to keep our lives in perspective.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/2014/oct/30/australians-think-muslim-population-nine-times-greater

I personally refuse to accept this petty, mozzie-bashing fear-mongering as anything except a load of hot air coming from a bunch of saddos who give every appearance of being afraid of their own shadows

The Gathering Storm.
There is to be a rally/protest/recruitment rally whatever at Lakemba
station next Friday.

This is where ASIO should be recording everything said.
Judging by the outspoken statements made last Friday then it should be
a time for a good harvest.

Well Robert your concern about government over reach with legislation
and its effect on the lawful population is valid, but it is the old
problem of balance.
It is worth noting that the Islamists have made a major change to the balance.
As far as banning the Koran it might be easier than we think.
How about I publish and sell a book advocating the killing of Jews
and Arabs and other believers, and enslaving their wives and daughters.

Do you think that book would be banned ?
If it was not banned there would be such an uproar that the law would be changed.
So either way the Koran could be banned.
Likewise organisations with similar objectives could be banned.
Not being a lawyer, I suspect that the Koran may be illegal already.

A time will come when everyone, politicians included, will have to
make a stand and declare their position.

Has any other religion pushed us into a situation like this ?

It's not muslims we should ban, it's terrorists.

Anyone who supports any terrorist organisation anywhere in the world should be denied the right to come to Australia (except if they're already Australian).

Pericles,

"I personally refuse to accept this petty, mozzie-bashing fear-mongering as anything except a load of hot air coming from a bunch of saddos who give every appearance of being afraid of their own shadows."

Right on.

rehctub,

I agree with Pericles, where do you live!

Most of the assaults I read about involve the average garden variety drunken/drug-fueled Aussie thug.

Do you have a plan for them as well?

This thread is like a little coven of paranoids - hope you don't mind us gatecrashing.

Well Poirot, I guess you are only saying what many Parisians were
saying recently.

Bazz,

There appears to a tide of Muslim migration (for various reasons) out of their historical geological sphere regarding the Middle-East, not least because of Western interference and destabilisation in the 20th/21st centuries....oil!

Conversely, the same hasn't occurred in regions closer to us. The world's largest Muslim population resides in our closest neighbour, Indonesia (12.7 % of the world's Muslim population). 62% of the world's Muslim population lives in South or South East Asia. Only 20% live in Arab countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

'When only two out of every hundred people in Australia are Muslim, the sheer amount of shock-jock fear demonstrated on this thread says an awful lot about our collective ability to keep our lives in perspective.'

Yes Pericles with such a tiny proportion of the population they sure do manage to be over represented in terrorist attacks, crime and imprisonment. Maybe you would like 10% like France where they make up 80% of the prison population. Maybe you would like to ask the thousands of Dutch girls raped what their thoughts are. The economic cost for security and imprisonment alone is astounding. Then again why should you care as you can for now afford to live far enough from the ghettos called a white ** .

runner,

Of course, when you've got a drum to bang, you'd never countenance that most of those incarcerated French Muslims emanate from communities that are blighted by poverty and unemployment - those ghettos ain't the best environment.

You could say the same for Australia and the US (any Western country) that those who make up the majority of the prison population are from the wrong side of the tracks.

You can hang causation on the correlation hook anytime you like in that case, Muslims, Blacks, indigenous - you name it, there's a ready-made racial/religious demonisation cloak available.

Poirot: most of those incarcerated French Muslims emanate from communities that are blighted by poverty and unemployment.

So are you countenancing their criminal activity because they are poor & unemployed?

I've been poor & unemployed (6 weeks the longest. Bread, Jam & Savaloys.) at times, but I never resorted to crime. That's probably why I've never been to prison.

Why do you think it's OK for them?

jayb,

You're such a disingenuous little flower aren't ypu : )

"So are you countenancing their criminal activity because they are poor & unemployed?"

Why is my stating a "fact" countenancing something?

"Why do you think it's OK for them?"

Where did I say that I thought it was Okay?

It's a fact (at least in the West) that those from communities affected by poverty and unemployment are more likely to get into trouble with law.

Nice try to twist my words.

Next.....

You just make this stuff up, don't you, runner.

>>Maybe you would like 10% like France where they make up 80% of the prison population<<

a) this is an incorrect statement,

b) any statistical imbalance could equally be due to the over-enthusiasm of the police to lock them up (which, I would have thought, you would wholeheartedly approve of)

http://stanford.edu/dept/france-stanford/Conferences/Islam/Khosrokhavar.pdf

and c) there is good reason to believe that poverty is the root cause.

"Many immigrants arrive in France in difficult financial situations, which make delinquency more frequent," said Jeanne Sautière, director of integration and religious groups for the French prison system. "The most important thing is to say there is no correlation between Islam and delinquency."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802560.html

>>Maybe you would like to ask the thousands of Dutch girls raped what their thoughts are.<<

Your implication being, one would assume from the context, that you believe rape in The Netherlands is a Muslim issue?

So, show us some evidence. Here's mine, to kick you off:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

Hmmmm. Australia has three times as many rapes as the Netherlands.

And this is what the Dutch have to say about it:

"It is scary to think that though it is now outrageous to consider darker skinned people to be lazy, physically handicapped people to be mentally retarded, Jews to be greedy and have big noses or heck, I don’t know planet Earth to be flat, it is apparently STILL okay to consider women who wear short skirts to be deliberately seeking sexual attention or worse from men."

http://dutchreview.com/dutchness/how-not-to-get-raped-in-the-netherlands/

I think I can guess where you pull these "statistics" from, runner.

Poirot said:
and destabilisation in the 20th/21st centuries....oil!

Actually this is inverted. The more stable countries in the middle
east with oil "were" the most stable.
However Syria and Iraq did not pass the oil revenues to all their populations.
Saudi Arabia is still stable.
Kuwait is still stable as are the Emirates.
Egypt has become unstable because of its peak oil falling income.
Yemen's small oil industry has almost closed.
Lebanon never had oil.

No, oil made those that used the oil income wisely were stable.
As oil production declines they will all become poorer and like Egypt
will find their populations are then unsustainable.
They used their oil income to subsidise food and fuel and their
population rose to meet the food supply.
For example the Nile is calculated to support 40 million but Egypt's
population is now 80 million. Egypt is living on Gulf charity.

Poirot.....Most of the assaults I read about involve the average garden variety drunken/drug-fueled Aussie thug.

Most if these adults are between two drunken morons, however, unlike terrorists they have their punch up, usually make up and co tinue drinking.

Now while I don't condone their behavior, I'm damned certain theyre not planning any beheading in the future.

If I saw Muslims as only being a problem here, I would accept that I am the one with the problem, the problem is, almost everywhere they go the same problems are evident and it's because they (the Muslim leaders and families) can't control their extremists, not even this who were born here.

As I have said before, we've tried it their way and it's failed, so it now time for action because up until now we have been treating the symptom, but ignoring the cause.

Another point worth mentioning is welfare. I will bet the 2% you refer to draws more than 2% of our welfare dollars, in fact, I'm going to state that so you can try to prove me wrong and, if you do prove me wrong I will happily withdraw the statement.

Finally, where do I live you ask. I live in a northern bayside suburb of Brisbane and I also live in the bush where I work.

The town of Kilcoy, a smallish farming community now has dozens of meat workers on 457 visas who roam the streets at night, and most locals are afraid to venture far from the main street. That's a disgrace.

Which part of Sydney Pericles?

My son could not walk home from the railway station in full daylight in Allawah, just 3 years ago, without 4 of the black bearded Leb thugs jumping out of a passing car, & attacking him.

This is now in an area bordering a Muslim enclave, an area they are expanding into. The elimination of the present inhabitants is on going.

Tell me, have you ever tried opening your eyes?

@Hasbeen,

Further to your post:

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Some countries have allowed Muslims to establish autonomous neighborhoods in cities where they govern by a harsh version of Islamic law, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said Monday during a speech in London... Jindal said some immigrants are seeking 'to colonize Western countries, because setting up your own enclave and demanding recognition of a no-go zone are exactly that.' He also said Muslim leaders must condemn the people who commit terrorism in the name of faith as 'murderers who are going to hell.'"

http://www.mail.com/int/news/uk/3310622-jindal-muslim-establish-no-go-zones-civic-control.html#.1258-stage-subhero1-1

PS have a look at governor Jindals picture --hardly your/their typical southern redneck.

A thread entitled "It's time to decide, do we become 'pro active' or remain" seems like the perfect invitation for this piece:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/20/i-was-radicalised-by-a-neo-nazi-group-it-could-just-have-easily-been-isis?CMP=share_btn_tw

"I was radicalised by a neo-Nazi group. It could just have easily been Isis"

"The confusion that had been my constant companion, now viewed through this extremist lens, had suddenly become both figuratively and literally black and white. No longer was I to blame for anything. I didn’t need to look at my part in my own downward spiral, as teachers, family members and police kept telling me. All life’s troubles, it seemed, were the doing of non-whites.

It was a relief to no longer feel responsible for my own – and others’ – suffering, but better than that, I was now being called upon to be a vital part of “the solution”. It is, I imagine, the same sentiment a potential jihadist feels when he or she foolishly believes that they’re being righteously called upon to fight for the creation of an Islamic state, as if that might fix what are largely personal troubles.

I became part of a group that would drive around in the leader’s ageing hatchback, plastering racist posters on walls and telegraph poles calling for action against the “Asian invasion”. Too dysfunctional to stage any coordinated sort of attack, our race war consisted of nothing more than starting fights with non-whites who were minding their own business. Since we were always heavily intoxicated, more often than not our victims survived the attacks in far better shape than we did."

Etc....

Dear SPQR,

Once again you drop yourself in it by reading and posting the first paragraph of an article.

If you could bring yourself to read the rest, yes I know there aren't enough pictures, you might realise this silly fool didn't revise the talking points in his speech referencing Fox News' non-existent 'no-go areas'. This was even after the agency's apology for getting it so wrong. So here he is trying to bluff his way out of the hole he is in. When asked directly to name a no-go area he couldn't and instead just diverted.

Now how about pulling your pants up and finding something a little more substantial to make your point.

Hi Steelredux,

Why is it that whenever some aspect of Islamic life or practice is challenged you are always on the defensive --could your real name be something like Abdullah Ali Abdullah?

Are you seriously proposing that there are no such thing as Islamic ghettos, no go areas, in major western cities?

And it is rather amusing & telling that you characterize a Louisiana Governor as <<this silly fool>> yet idolise and fawn-over the HAMAS and Hezbollah leaders,eh.

Steelie: When asked directly to name a no-go area he couldn't and instead just diverted.

My goodness steelie, fancy you complaining about diversion. ;-). World Champion diverter of all time.

Sounds like he was plain unlucky, Hasbeen.

>>My son could not walk home from the railway station in full daylight in Allawah, just 3 years ago, without 4 of the black bearded Leb thugs jumping out of a passing car, & attacking him.<<

At least, that's what the statistics tell us.

http://house.ksou.cn/profile.php?sta=nsw&q=Allawah

With an overall crime rate approximately half of that of Sydney as a whole - and assaults a full 60% lower - Allawah seems to be a veritable haven of peace and tranquility.

And, as anybody in Sydney knows, Allawah is in an area that has a higher-than-average number of Chinese in its population. The Local Government Area is in fact Hurstville.

http://myboot.com.au/2218/Allawah/crime.aspx

I sincerely hope that your son has recovered fully from his experience. But it does look very much like a random occurrence, rather than the pattern of behaviour that you imply.

Incidentally, did he manage to ask these "black bearded Leb thugs" whether they were in fact Christian "black bearded Leb thugs"? After all, there is a 40% chance that they were...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html

Just saying.

No Go Areas ?
How about Tower Hamlets in London ?
They even put signs up warning you are entering a sharia law area.
They hassle women for not being covered, etc etc.
Yes I agree not a no go area, but it is effectively so.
There are even maps marked of Marseille in France as police no go areas.

The time of saying "OH it is not moslems etc" is over.

The Mayor of Paris is suing FOX for saying there are no-go areas. There are No-go areas in London & Paris. I've seen the signs myself & that was 10 years ago. Ok, she's embarrassed for Paris but if she went to Court she'd lose.

It's starting to happen here.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=937981969546403&set=vb.100000038277260&type=2&theater

Proactive: surround them singing, No Caliphate Infidelidosious, Football, Meat Pies & Holden Cars, Up there Cazaly, Come on aussie Come on, & Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi.

There is a Pro Mahomet Rally in Sydney this week end. I just wish I could be there.

G'day there PERICLES...

It would seem by the general thrust of your threads that you're not entirely convinced there exists a problem of young Muslims being somehow 'radicalised' and joining others abroad, in fighting government troops, and others in Syria ?

If so, do you also believe there's been a overreaction by the Australian government in the way they've reacted to those supposed heightened alerts, many emanating from the recent events in Paris, and the Martin Place siege, just before Christmas ?

Where on earth did you dig that one from, o sung wu?

>>G'day there PERICLES... It would seem by the general thrust of your threads that you're not entirely convinced there exists a problem of young Muslims being somehow 'radicalised' and joining others abroad, in fighting government troops, and others in Syria ?<<

Where have I mentioned the radicalisation of Muslim youth, let alone denied there is a problem? That is called verballing, I believe, in your erstwhile profession.

Old habits die hard, it would appear.

And Bazz, you've been suckered in too.

>>No Go Areas? How about Tower Hamlets in London?<<

I was there last month, as it happens. The reports of "sharia law zones" and "no-go areas" was just another beat-up by the EDL, a neo-Nazi organization whose tactics echo those of Mosley's brownshirts of the 1930s. Only this time, they are able to fake videos that they put up on YouTube.

It is true that there is a group of youngsters calling themselves the Sharia Project. But when they get out of hand and harrass people, they are caught, tried and sent to jail.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/22/muslim-patrol-london-police-arrests

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519519/Muslim-Patrol-jailed-harassing-couple-holding-hands-men-drinking-bid-enforce-Sharia-law-East-London.html

And the police are also active in preventing the kind of provocative activities that are, in fact, against the law.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/459782/Muslim-Patrol-handed-Asbos-banning-Sharia-Law-promotion-or-meeting-Anjem-Choudary

And I'm afraid I detect porkies in this smelly little offering, Jayb.

>>There are No-go areas in London & Paris. I've seen the signs myself & that was 10 years ago.<<

Crap. You haven't, and you know perfectly well that you haven't, otherwise you'd be specific. It's just something one of your mates told you in a pub once.

When are we going to be able to discuss this stuff like grown-ups? Not for a while, it would appear.

Hi (again) PERICLES...

I'm very sorry my friend if I have misunderstood you ? Perhaps you might then choose to enlighten me as to what it is exactly that you do think about these unsettling Islamic incidences ? And what is meant by 'verballing' ? Apparently it's a habit that dies hard, sounds positively awful ?

Pericles, the only thing random about the attack on my son, was that victim was random. It is a regular occurrence in the areas south of Bexley. These are intimidatory to discourage the current citizens from staying. The Muslims want it.

It was only his training in unarmed combat in the navy that allowed him to defend himself for a while. He was down & the boot was being laid in before 2 passing cars stopped & the occupants started to intervene that saved him. Our bearded friends left like the curs they are.

His skull was fractured in 4 places, & will never be in it's original shape. It took 9 months for his vision to fully recover.

The police, when they finally attended, tried to dissuade him from putting in a formal complaint, & only finally reluctantly accepted it when they realised the navy would demand a full police report. I will just confirm he was in ordinary civilian clothes.

When they accepted the report the police told him not to expect any result. They were given the number of the car, which proved to be false, out of date, & for a different car. These things are carefully planned, & on going.

I really do get sick of Muslim apologists.

Dear JayB,

You Wrote;

“It's starting to happen here.”

You sir are a fool. This is a video from the Atheists convention in Melbourne nearly 3 years ago. From memory there were Christian protesters there too.

Though it is curious why it has been picked up by an Israeli woman and posted only a couple of weeks ago on her facebook page along with the caption;

“Muslim protester's gather in Melbourne then get the shock of their life when Patriotic Aussies surround them and show them who's boss. this is the way they should be silenced everywhere they open their mouths! SHARE”

It now has over 650,000 views, 14,000 shares and 7,000 likes.

So why? A quote from her;

“Israel is the navel of the Earth and the junction to the continents and from dawn of history is a goal for the greedy and power seekers! that is why the Jews are being pushed out of it from the dawn of history! FACT!  We are physically keeping Islam from getting to you and it's for YOUR interest to help us...help YOU!”

Though I suspect there might be a little bit of this happening;

“The passionate support for Israel expressed on talkback and comment sections of websites, internet chat forums, blogs, Twitter and Facebook may not be all that it seems. Israel’s foreign ministry is reported to be establishing a special undercover team of paid workers whose job it will be to surf the internet 24 hours a day spreading positive news about Israel.”
http://electronicintifada.net/content/internet-users-paid-spread-israeli-propaganda/8355

Well Jayb, let me guess, you're not getting a dime. They must love you my friend.

Pericles: Crap. You haven't, and you know perfectly well that you haven't, otherwise you'd be specific.

OK, in London it was near Hyde Park near the Park West Apartments we were staying at. We were going from one place to another when some Arab men came out of a Bubble Smoking Den & told us to find another way but not through there.

It Was Safeway's in Edgeware Rd that we saw all the moslem women being detained for shoplifting with their Trolley's locked. Their husbands were waiting for them outside in the Rolls & Mercedes, etc.

In Paris we went to a Little Market near the Eifel Tower. We decided to have a look around the area & some Arab men told us not to go there & go back to the Market. We were allowed to go there.

Sorry Pericles but you are wrong.

"....Their husbands were waiting for them outside in the Rolls & Mercedes, etc."

Guffaw!

In Tower Hamlets the Sharia posters were put up and the local council
sends council workers around to take them down.
There was a row in the council about it, and the council had some moslem members who objected.
It is a couple of years since I read the newspaper reports, so some
of the details might not be accurate, but the basic facts are correct.
The article named the council members, so it is unlikely to be incorrect.

Perceles: "....Their husbands were waiting for them outside in the Rolls & Mercedes, etc." Guffaw.

Don't choke. It happened just like that. Every day we went past or into Edgeware Rd. Safeways.

Steelie: This is a video from the Atheists convention in Melbourne nearly 3 years ago. From memory there were Christian protesters there too.

So what if it was 3 years ago. The fact is that it should not be happening in Australia. These people should now be rounded up & deported & their Passports cancelled. That small mob of backward moslems have now grown to 10 times that number & it's getting worse. They have no business being in a Great Country like Australia.

o sung wu,

As a former cop who has implied - on multiple occasions - that I couldn't possibly know anything about policing, I'm amazed that you don't know what verballing is.

Verballing can refer to either an interrogation technique (considered unethical) where the interrogating officer puts damaging remarks into the mouth of the suspect being interrogated, or the fabrication of a confession that never happened.

Of course it is all just a beat-up:

<<The car-body count dropped dramatically in France toward the end of last week. So vast was the orgy of auto incineration--more than 1,000 vehicles burned night after night as gangs ambushed firefighters and police, raging against French government and society--that when "only" 15 cars were torched one night in the administrative department of Seine-St-Denis, where the violence began, the head of the National Police said that things there had returned to "normal."

Statistically true, perhaps. But "normal"? In hundreds of French housing projects and ghettoes populated by mostly Muslim Arab and African immigrants and their French children and grandchildren, "normal" has been for years a sort of chronic intifada, even if it was invisible to most of France and the rest of the world. According to research conducted by the government's domestic intelligence network, the Renseignements Generaux, French police would not venture without major reinforcements into some 150 "no-go zones" around the country--and that was before the recent wave of riots began on Oct. 27. In France's "immigrant" neighborhoods, to borrow a phrase from the American military, "situation normal, all f---ed up.">>
http://www.newsweek.com/europes-time-bomb-115189

AJ PHILLIPS...I understand precisely the nature of 'verballing'. In reality, I was merely making a point with another contributor herein.

Very briefly, in order to avoid any further allegations of 'the verbal' it was decided the old 'records of interview' were to be replaced. By a new process of conducting official police interviews. That is, all future official interviews (Q & A's) were to be video and sound taped. Furthermore as well as videotaping it was determined a maximum period of four (4) hours for such interviews was to be mandated. An extension of time was permissible, but could only be given, just prior to the expiration of the original 4 hours, and then ONLY by a Magistrate.

Furthermore the presence of a clock was necessary, and it needed to be placed clearly within the frame of the video. This was done to insure, police conducting the interview, strictly adhered to the maximum admissible period of four (4) hours.

All those interviewed, were also entitled to an unaltered copy of that videotape, at government expense. The cassette needed to be signed, dated and witnessed, by the Case Officer and another police member.

Steelie: You sir are a fool. This is a video from the Atheists convention in Melbourne nearly 3 years ago.

This one on the 23 Jan 2015

"Our Prophet, Our Honour.
Sydney Campaign 20015
Culminating in a United stand for the Prophet
Friday 23 January 2015
Starting at 8.30 AM Outside Lakemba Train Station.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027

I suppose You, Poirot & Pericles will be there with your Placards in support.

I sorry being in Queensland I can't make it with my Placard.
"No Caliphate, Infidelious."

Surround them singing, "No Caliphate Infidelious, Football, Meat Pies, Kangaroos & Holden Cars, Up there Cazaly, Come on Aussie Come on, Come on & Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi, Get out the Areoguard & 'avagoodweekend. Ali the fly, straight from rubbish to you."

Mr Philips, was it your work that got Monis into Australia? Just asking.

o sung wu,

After posting my last comment, I later suspected that you had to have been making some sort of a point. The idea that you didn’t know what verballing was just seemed too far fetched. In my defence, however, I don’t think it’s clear what point you were making or to whom. I see no other instances of anything that could be construed as verballing here. Not from Pericles, at least. Never mind.

As for your other comments? Yes, I’m aware of all that. It’s also worth noting too that, as I understand it, police were initially very opposed to the recording of interviews until they realised that it actually benefited them immensely. In their defence, though, they probably weren’t as aware back then that the interrogation tactics that the taping of interviews (and time limits) were supposed to prevent (among the other things), often ended up eliciting false confessions.

Don't be so naive, o sung wu.

>>And what is meant by 'verballing'<<

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verballing

>>...you're not entirely convinced there exists a problem of young Muslims being somehow 'radicalised'<<

I said no such thing. You invented it, and claimed that it is my view. That is verballing.

And Hasbeen:

>>It is a regular occurrence in the areas south of Bexley.<<

Crap. You are imagining stuff. Give us some evidence, or get back in your box.

>>I really do get sick of Muslim apologists.<<

And I get annoyed with people who invent stuff.

Just like Jayb.

>>...it was near Hyde Park near the Park West Apartments we were staying at. We were going from one place to another when some Arab men came out of a Bubble Smoking Den & told us to find another way but not through there.<<

A "Bubble Smoking Den"? In Lancaster Gate? Oh, please. I know that part of the world like the back of my hand. What is it that motivates you to make this up? (And what is a "Bubble Smoking Den", in your fevered imagination anyway?)

>>It Was Safeway's in Edgeware Rd that we saw all the moslem women being detained for shoplifting with their Trolley's locked. Their husbands were waiting for them outside in the Rolls & Mercedes, etc<<

You must have spent too much time in that "Bubble Smoking Den", Jayb.

IMPORTANT DISCLOSURE -YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE.

For those of you who are wonder why Pericles has such a different perspective to all you westies ...here is why

Pericles lives in Joe Hockeys electorate of North Sydney. And here is a brief on that electorate:

"Relative to other parts of NSW, the electorate is also distinguished by having among the highest proportion of residents holding university qualifications and women in the workforce (almost 50% of women). Unemployment levels in North Sydney are among the lowest in Australia.

Despite being so close to the centre of Sydney, residents enjoy the benefits of many wonderful local parks and recreational areas, bushland and heritage precincts and, of course, Sydney’s beautiful Harbour foreshores. A strong community spirit typifies the area and local residents benefit from the work of hundreds of volunteer services – ranging from Meals on Wheels to resettlement services for new migrants."http://www.joehockey.com/north-sydney/page.aspx?p=31

No raging Middle Eastern gangs there. No siree --from north of the bridge multiculturalism looks just dandy ...just so long as its stays on the southside LOL

Pericles: I know that part of the world like the back of my hand.

So you're an Arab then. The entire area is crawling with cross-dressing Arabs in their dresses. They look at you like you're scum & they never smile.

Pericles: You must have spent too much time in that "Bubble Smoking Den", Jayb.

The entire Hyde Park area is swimming in these little Coffee/tea Cafe's where the men sit around smoking from the Hookahs. It was very interesting. They got upset when I videoed them. There were no women in these Cafe's only men. The only women in the area we saw wore Burkas, some of them even wore those leather masks you see in porno movies. We were told that they were from Saudi Arabia.

It was all very scary but a great experience, especially the Safeways Supermarket.

AJ, you didn't answer my question. Was it you who is responsible for getting Monis into Australia.

Jayb,

I was going to reply to your question by pointing out how immature and brainless it was (especially considering the fact that I have never voiced my opinion on the issues raised by the Charlie Hebdo attack). But I thought I’d rise above it by not getting into some sort of silly little tit for tat with you.

I gave you enough credit, at least, to assume that you’d be mature enough to just drop it and pretend it never happened too. Obviously I was wrong. Or perhaps you’ve got some punchline that you’re bursting to share with us after I say “no”. So here you go…

No, I wasn’t responsible for getting Monis into Australia.

I’ll await your clever punchline but I don’t expect it to be any more witty than, “Ya coulda fooled me, LOL!” I can just sense you snickering already.

By the way, I find it amusing that someone who (in our last interaction) didn’t understand the value of sociological research; how it is implemented on a practical level; how it affects "the ordinary person in the street" [your words]; and assumed that it attempted to address "the meaning of life" [again, your words], thinks they're in a position to provide any sort of meaningful commentary on complex issues such as these.

AJPhilips,

"’ll await your clever punchline but I don’t expect it to be any more witty than, “Ya coulda fooled me, LOL!” I can just sense you snickering already."

Don't hold your breath...Jayb will simply call you an "Arab"...and then blithely accuse you of making comments on this forum which you never made.

That's just pathetic, Jayb, even by your own standards.

>>So you're an Arab then. The entire area is crawling with cross-dressing Arabs in their dresses. They look at you like you're scum & they never smile.<<

I lived in that area - the strip between Paddington, Bayswater and Hyde Park - for many years. I make a point of going back there when I visit London each year - I have photographs of the 2014 Notting Hill Carnival that would turn your hair white. Assuming you have any left, that is, after tearing it out in confected rage.

>>The entire Hyde Park area is swimming in these little Coffee/tea Cafe's where the men sit around smoking from the Hookahs. It was very interesting.<<

Anybody who has been to London can call this for the bullsh!t it is. The only remaining puzzle is why you are so intent on showing yourself up in this way. Do you actually think that anyone believes this rubbish?

>>It was all very scary but a great experience, especially the Safeways Supermarket.<<

There hasn't been a Safeways in Edgware Road for at least ten years. Might I suggest that your recollection is somewhat, shall we say, age-related?

Jayb: So you're an Arab then. (?)

My mistake poirot, there should have been a Question Mark after the Sentence, as it was a query, that's all.

Wow, poirot, you make being an Arab sound like a bad thing. Isn't that a bit,,, racist?

Percicles: There hasn't been a Safeways in Edgware Road for at least ten years.

Well as I said it was about 10 years ago. Actually I had a look at our Diary & it was 15 years ago. I imagine they had to close down because of all the shoplifting by the Arab women. Are you saying that there are no Hookah Café on Edgeware Rd?

Pericles: I make a point of going back there each year.

To enjoy the Hookah Cafe's & catch up with your Arab friends I surmise. Planned any "events" lately. Will you be going to the Rally at Lakemba Train Station tomorrow? Will you be going to London this year or have they cancelled your Passport?

Come on AJ, answer the question. did you or didn't you. O great champion of illegal immigrants & boat people.

"They got upset when I videoed them."

I can believe that, Jayb... also you tell us "They look at you like you're scum..." and I have no reason to doubt the truth of that.

But the rest is confusing.

So, by your own account, you are in these London no-go areas which surely raises the questions that either they are no-go areas and you are an Arab or muslim? Or you aren't a muslim and they are not no-go areas?

Oh boy, Jayb!

<<Come on AJ, answer the question. did you or didn't you.>>

Did you not read past the first paragraph of my reply? Now please, get on with the punchline already. The longer you delay it, the less funny it will be for all of us.

<<O great champion of illegal immigrants & boat people.>>

I see what Poirot means now.

I have never once, on OLO, commented on illegal immigrants or boat people. Where the flip do you get this from?

Wm Trev: But the rest is confusing.

I'm sorry if you get easily confused, some people are like that.

No, Edgeware Rd. isn't NoGo & I don't think the were any "designated" streets, as such. We were just walking around the streets when we were approached by an old Arab person & told not to go into "that" area. We thanked him & left the area. That's all. The same sort of thing happened in Paris.

You don't give up Jayb, even when faced with the obvious fact that you are the mother of invention here.

>> I imagine [Safeway] had to close down because of all the shoplifting by the Arab women.<<

The key word, once again is "imagine". What actually happened was:

"By the early months of 1999 Safeway was coming under renewed criticism from investors. Its shares had under-performed the food sector over the previous five years; it had been pushed back into fourth position by Asda and it did not have enough stores of adequate size to offer a comprehensive non-food range."

The stores were eventually sold to Morrisons.

>>Are you saying that there are no Hookah Café on Edgeware Rd?<<

They are called shisha lounges, Jayb, and yes there are shisha lounges in Edgware Road.

http://www.shishaspot.com/category/central-london-shisha-places/

However, I would like to refer you to your original assertion...

>>...it was near Hyde Park near the Park West Apartments we were staying at. We were going from one place to another when some Arab men came out of a Bubble Smoking Den & told us to find another way but not through there... The entire Hyde Park area is swimming in these little Coffee/tea Cafe's where the men sit around smoking from the Hookahs<<

Which was, and remains, utter crap.

A.J. PHILIPS...

Personally I didn't have any major objection to video taping ROI's, though four hours max did occasionally inhibit one's rhythm with someone who was slow or confused in coming forth. Interrogation is an accomplishment that takes some time to familiarize oneself with, and ensuring one's proofs are meticulously established and covered, is of course paramount !

Hi there PERICLES...

Eh steady there ol' friend please don't be so 'precious' after all it's just a discussion, an exchange of views ? Again may I ask what it is that you do think, particularly as you say '...you get annoyed at people who invent stuff...' ?

Surely the best way of preventing people from 'inventing stuff' is to neutralise their inventive or speculative imaginations by setting 'em straight, with exactly what it is that you do think and believe ?

o sung wu,

"Surely the best way of preventing people from 'inventing stuff' is to neutralise their inventive or speculative imaginations by setting 'em straight, with exactly what it is that you do think and believe ?"

There's speculation - and there's outright "fiction" as practiced regularly by Jayb on this forum.

He says whatever he likes - and whether or not it has any relation to fact is certainly not a guiding light for Jayb.

Since when should we all pipe down and assume it's our fault when someone chooses to be a serial fibber?

Pericles: The key word, once again is "imagine".

Well, maybe I should have said, "I suspect or surmise." I was only going on the amount of shoplifting by women in Burka's that I witnessed. I've got some video of them too & the cars waiting for them outside.

Pericles: What actually happened was: "By the early months of 1999 Safeway was coming under renewed criticism from investors. Its shares had under-performed the food sector over the previous five years;

I'm not surprised that the investors were upset the Shop couldn't make a prophet. ;-) The amount of shoplifting, that's why they closed it down.

Going by the amount of flack I'm getting from Poirot & Pericles, I must be getting close to the truth. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. ;-)

No word from AJ yet, Ay.

"Going by the amount of flack I'm getting from Poirot & Pericles, I must be getting close to the truth. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. ;-)"

Lol!.....how are you going with getting that size 10 spangled cocktail dress to fit (you know the one you referred to on the cross-dressing thread?)

(If you're going by your own dubious modus operandi...it's only fitting that we all join in:)

Yes, Yes Jayb. Very funny.

<<No word from AJ yet, Ay.>>

Are you the same guy who does OLO’s ‘runner’?

Love ya work!

I think Wole Soyinka has the best idea:

"We should assemble all those who are pure and cannot abide other faiths, put them all in rockets, and fire them into space."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quotations_on_Islam_from_Notable_Non-Muslims

Wole Soyinka:
Akinwande Oluwole "Wole" Soyinka (born July 13, 1934) is a Nigerian writer, poet and playwright. In 1986, he became the first African to be awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature. In 1994, he was designated UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador for the promotion of African culture, human rights, freedom of expression, media and communication.

"England is a cesspit. England is the breeding ground of fundamentalist Muslims. Its social logic is to allow all religions to preach openly. But this is illogic, because none of the other religions preach apocalyptic violence. And yet England allows it. Remember, that country was the breeding ground for communism, too. Karl Marx did all his work in libraries there.
. . .

We should assemble all those who are pure and cannot abide other faiths, put them all in rockets, and fire them into space.
. . .
A virus has attacked the world of sense and sensibility, and it has spread to Nigeria.
. . .
The assumption of power over life and death then passed to every single inconsequential Muslim in the world-as if someone had given them a new stature...Al Qaeda is the descendent of this phenomenon. The proselytization of Islam became vigorous after this. People went to Saudi Arabia. Madrassas were established everywhere."

>>>>>>>

That's right, Jayb.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quotations_on_Islam_from_Notable_Non-Muslims

Emeka Ojukwu (1933 - 2011) was the only president of the short lived Republic of Biafra.

“The Biafran struggle is, on another plane, a resistance to the Arab-Muslim expansionism which has menaced and ravaged the African continent for twelve centuries. As early as the first quarter of the seventh century, the Arabs, a people from the Near-East, evolved Islam not just as a religion but as a cover for their insatiable territorial ambitions. By the tenth century they had overrun and occupied, among other places, Egypt and North Africa. Had they stopped there, we would not today be faced with the wicked and unholy collusion we are fighting against. On the contrary, they cast their hungry and envious eyes across the Sahara on to the land of the Negroes.

Our Biafran ancestors remained immune from the Islamic contagion. From the middle years of the last century Christianity was established in our land. In this way we came to be a predominantly Christian people. We came to stand out as a non-Muslim island in a raging Islamic sea. Throughout the period of the ill-fated Nigerian experiment, the Muslims hoped to infiltrate Biafra by peaceful means and quiet propaganda, but failed. Then the late Ahmadu Bello, the Sarduana of Sokoto tried, by political and economic blackmail and terrorism, to convert Biafrans settled in Northern Nigeria to Islam. His hope was that these Biafrans on dispersion would then carry Islam to Biafra, and by so doing give the religion political control of the area. The crises which agitated the so-called independent Nigeria from 1962 gave these aggressive proselytisers the chance to try converting us by force.

It is now evident why the fanatic Arab-Muslim states like Algeria, Egypt and the Sudan have come out openly and massively to support and aid Nigeria in her present war of genocide against us. These states see militant Arabism as a powerful instrument for attaining power in the world.”

If we can avoid the bickering;
"We", and I use "We advisedly", spent hundreds of years and indeed
lives getting the theocrats out of government in Europe.
The last thing we need is to let an even worse breed of theocrats run
our governments.
It appears the current Egyptian President has got the message and is
looking for support. As his statement was directly opposed to the
writings in the Koran someone is bound to assassinate him sooner or later.

It needed the reformation to get Rome off "our" backs and then the
House of Commons with some brave members to remove the King from absolute power.
Is there anyone here that wants to reverse that ?

G'day there POIROT...

I'm just as bad as anyone I reckon ? I tend to 'stir a little' some of the other contributor's herein, as you know ? It does lighten an otherwise quiet afternoon for an hour or two ? When I retired, I kinda missed all the cut 'n thrust of a busy Station, with their petty politics, backstabbing, and other curious methods of character assassination ! If you made it to the car-park after your shift, in one piece, you knew you were doing well.

You know, most promotions, transfers, squad allocations, were all decided; usually in the back of a quiet public bar, at the local boozer. A small place usually closed off until night trading, other than for the local coppers, who tended to occupy the place (exclusively) around 1600-1800hrs daily, and more or less 'on demand'. They were halcyon times, at the end of your day shift, to have a few quiet ones. Moreover, we were all left in peace, with not a boofhead in sight !

AJ: Yes, Yes Jayb. Very funny.

I wasn't being funny. I wanted to know if you were the person that got Monis into Australia & haw many on the watch list did you help.

Joke: What's the difference between a Prostitute & a Lawyer. A Lawyer will do anything for money.

AJ: Are you the same guy who does OLO’s ‘runner’? Love ya work!

No, I do my own work.

For poirot & pericles. I know the experiences we had in 8 weeks in the UK & France. I really don't care if "You" believe me or not. I have the happy snaps & 13, 45 minute videos to relive the great time we had. We were independent & took mostly B & C class roads & stayed in little villages that never get Tourists. That's the best way to meet the real people & to see any Country.

Absolutely, Jayb.

>>We were independent & took mostly B & C class roads & stayed in little villages that never get Tourists.<<

That would be Edgware Road, right?

>>I was only going on the amount of shoplifting by women in Burka's that I witnessed. I've got some video of them too & the cars waiting for them outside.<<

Tell you what, why don't you upload a minute or two of that up to YouTube. Doesn't cost you anything. And you would have the satisfaction of proving me wrong, and require me to eat humble pie.

Is that incentive enough? After all, if you have the evidence, it won't be a matter of "I really don't care if 'You' believe me or not."

I won't hold my breath, though.

pericles: That would be Edgware Road, right?

Right. It's been downgraded a C Class Road thanks to the influx of your Arab friends. Didn't you know that? ;-)

You're getting nastier & nastier. Not a good sign.

Yes, Jayb.

<<I wasn't being funny. I wanted to know if you were the person that got Monis into Australia & haw many on the watch list did you help.>>

And I answered your question many posts ago. Hence my last post. The situation had become so absurd that there was simply nothing left for me to say, so I thought I'd have a bit of fun by conveying the stupidity of claiming - multiple times - that I hadn't answered your question, in the most creative way I could.

Perhaps now you could explain to me what the relevance of your question was?

<<What's the difference between a Prostitute & a Lawyer. A Lawyer will do anything for money.>>

I thought it was that the prostitute stops screwing you once you're dead.

Is that where your question comes from? Do you think I’m a lawyer? I’m not, but, co-incidentally, just yesterday I merged my current degree with a Bachelor of Laws to make it a double degree. So maybe there’s something prophetic about your assumption?

Bazz,

Not quite sure about that really, what looks more obvious are the detrimental effects of the Reformation. I guess if you like the all the bloodshed which the Reformation caused. I'm still trying to work out exactly what the benefits were?

ISLAM AND PROTESTANT COLLABORATIONS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism_and_Islam
Following the Turkish conquest of Constantinople in 1453 by Mehmet II and the unification of the Middle East under Selim I, Suleiman the Magnificent, the son of Selim, managed to expand Ottoman rule to Balkans. The Habsburg Empire thus entered into direct conflict with the Ottomans.
At the same time the Protestant Reformation was taking place in numerous areas of northern and central Europe, in harsh opposition to Papal authority and the Holy Roman Empire led by Emperor Charles V. This situation led the Protestants to consider various forms of cooperation and rapprochement (religious, commercial, military) with the Muslim world, in opposition to their common Habsburg enemy.

Anglo-Turkish piracy
Main article: Anglo-Turkish piracy
"After peace was made with Catholic Spain in 1604, English pirates nevertheless continued to raid Christian shipping in the Mediterranean, this time under the protection of the Muslim rulers of the Barbary States, and often converting to Islam in the process, in what has been described as Anglo-Turkish piracy"

Yes Constance there was much loss of life as in war but the upshot of it all was parliamentary government and the church out of government.
I don't know anything about the piracy in the Mediterranean, except
much later the US campaign against the Barbary Pirates.

The question remains who wants to reintroduce religious government ?

"I was only going on the amount of shoplifting by women in Burka's that I witnessed."

Come on Jayb, don't hold back...while we're residing in the land of make believe...I'm sure you're about to tell us that the women in burqas actually stole the Edgeware Rd (and now have it hidden somewhere south of Tooting cleverly disguised as a camel)

AJ: Yes, Jayb.

Have you no shame. What are you going to do to make amends.

AJ: the prostitute stops screwing you once you're dead.

Damm, I bet you've heard all the Lawyer jokes.

poirot: I'm sure you're about to tell us that the women in burqas actually stole the Edgeware Rd (and now have it hidden somewhere south of Tooting cleverly disguised as a camel)

Damm, parrot, you stole my punch line.

Oh, this has got to be some sort of a joke. No-one’s this stupid. Surely!

AJPhilips,

When your credibility has been comprehensively hit for six, you've got two choices of response - slink off the forum or ramp up the stupid.

Guess which Jayb chose to do?

“I'm sure you're about to tell us that the women in burqas actually stole the Edgeware Rd (and now have it hidden somewhere south of Tooting cleverly disguised as a camel)”

Colliers Wood, you know!

No sign of that YouTube evidence forthcoming, I notice.

>>I've got some video of them too & the cars waiting for them outside.<<

Ah well. I will try to contain my surprise and disappointment.

Bazz,

But the parliamentary model through the monarchies already existed pre Reformation. The Protestants colluded with Islam - fact. Henry VIII disposing of wives; Protestants disposing of any imageries/icons of /Christ - Very Islamic. No Art! The Reformation only weakened Christianity by creating chaos - Fact. Martin Luther created the blue print of anti-Semitism for what came later - Fact.

Edgware Road, doesn't it continue on from Park Lane and go past Marble Arch, crossing at Oxford Street ? My memory fails me, your worship, may I refer to my notes ? In this case I've mislaid my trusty A to Z ? I had a working holiday in London after discharge from the Army, prior to joining the cops. I worked for Securicor, a large British Security company. Including two delightful weeks (night shift) at Madame Tussaud's in Marylebone Street, if I remember rightly ?

Those days, I received the princely sum of 7/11d per hour, for those who can remember the pre-decimal days, in the UK at least ? Sorry, I'm well off the Topic (as usual) and 'raving on' aimlessly again, I'm sorry to bore you all !

OSW: 7/11d per hour @ 4A$/£1

A$31.08 per Hour. Not bad for back then.

AJ: Oh, this has got to be some sort of a joke. No-one’s this stupid. Surely!

My apologies. I did miss that one.

AJ: find it amusing that someone who (in our last interaction) didn’t understand the value of sociological research; how it is implemented on a practical level; how it affects "the ordinary person in the street" [your words];

Pure Quackery. Reading works of Authors long dead, whose world was far different from the World today. Then applying those ideas now. No one is that stupid, surely.

poirot: When your credibility has been comprehensively hit for six, you've got two choices of response - slink off the forum or ramp up the stupid.

My credibility is intact. You just wish.

Hi there JAYB...

How on earth did you work that out ? I (and my mates) reckon I was quite poorly paid back then ? The amount was...seven shillings and eleven pence, per hour, you didn't misunderstand me eh ? Sorry I'm not doubting you, just enquiring is all ? Thanks anyway.

OSW: How on earth did you work that out ?

Back in the 70/80's it was A$4 to the pound. Considering it was 70/80's that was bloody good money. In fact that's good money now for a lot of people. Except Lawyers maybe. ;-

It was a lot dearer to live in London in those days. Rent & food were very expensive & still are. How did you find the quality of milk. I went to get milk one morning, came back with Full Cream milk when I poured it was thinner than our light milk. Apparently if we wanted Australian Quality we had to get "Breakfast Milk." Very dear.

Further confirmation that you have no idea of what sociology is, Jayb,

<<Pure Quackery. Reading works of Authors long dead, whose world was far different from the World today. Then applying those ideas now. No one is that stupid, surely.>>

Pure crap. If sociology is such quackery, then you might want to tell everyone involved in politics, medicine, law, marketing, urban organization, city development, homeland security, research co-ordination, project management, impact planning, etc, etc... that they’ve all been misled. Yes, despite over 150 years of research and the successful application of sociological theories - and the mountains of evidence to support it all - ol’ armchair expert over here, Jayb, apparently knows that it’s all just hokum.

No-one studies the works of long-dead authors, but there are long-dead authors who have provided demonstrably reliable perspectives from which the development, structure, and functioning of human societies may be analysed.

Here’s an idea: since you’re such an expert on this stuff, how about you pick a sociological perspective and educate us on how it is utilised nowadays and why that utilisation is of no use.

This should be fun.

AJ: No-one studies the works of long-dead authors, but there are long-dead authors who have provided demonstrably reliable perspectives from which the development, structure, and functioning of human societies may be analysed.

All well out dated theories that the Modern World has to put up with. Bumbling's by Conservative old men who still thought the World was flat & God created the World in 6 days.

Welcome to the World of AJ.

SPQR,

Good one. Now we won't mention living in Ivory Towers, will we.

So you’ve got nothing then, Jayb?

I figured that’d be the case. Worse still, you’re not even embarrassed about it. Instead, you just repeat the same claim hoping that it’ll eventually mean something…

<<All well out dated theories that the Modern World has to put up with.>>

And yet you can’t provide a single example of any of them. Your knowledge on this subject is as existent as your videos, it seems.

Hi Again JAYB...

Hell, I'd apparently lived under the mistaken impression all these years, thinking I was very poorly paid ? It was back in 1969 ? I lived in Sinclair Road, W14 at the back of Olympia, in Shepherds Bush, in a comfortable Bed-Sit. paying about 12 quid a week (without utilities) I had this little slot meter in my room for gas, and another for electricity which worked fine for me. The place was full of girls, and being the only Aussie, well I was pretty well catered for, put it that way ! Again, I'm sorry for side-tracking this important Topic (again)?

AJ: <<All well out dated theories that the Modern World has to put up with.>>

Well just off the top of my head from past discussions;

Early, Confucius, Plato, Aristotle.
17th Cen., Comte
19th Cen., Du Bois, Durkheim, Marks. I hear he's your favourite.
20th Cen., Woolf, Mead, Webber.

Their writings & thoughts on Society have no relationship with the 21 St. Century. So really you are living on past glories that no longer relevant.

No word from poirot & Pericles about the Rally at Lakemba went to-day.

I suspect that mathematics is not your strong point either, Jayb (along with accuracy of recollection, that is).

>>OSW: 7/11d per hour @ 4A$/£1
A$31.08 per Hour. Not bad for back then.<<

Let's do the calculation together, shall we? Do you have a crayon handy? Good.

Now, write down the following in your best handwriting:

7/11d is £0.396

A$4/£1 is £0.25

Now divide the bigger number by the smaller number (can you tell which is which? Well done)

The A$ equivalent of is 7/11d per hour is therefore A$1.58 per hour.

But hey, you were only out by a factor of nineteen.

Oh, what was that you said earlier?

>>My credibility is intact. You just wish.<<

I'd say it was in tatters right now.

And not quite, o sung wu, but very close.

>>Edgware Road, doesn't it continue on from Park Lane and go past Marble Arch, crossing at Oxford Street ?<<

Edgware Road actually starts at Marble Arch, i.e. where Oxford Street meets the Bayswater Road, and heads north as far as Maida Vale.

At least two sections of the same road futher north also have the name Edgware Road.

Jayb,

You've quoted yourself there and then responded to that instead. If you want to duck and weave, then you could at least be a little more subtle than that.

You listed names too, by the way. Not perspectives. So not only have you responded to yourself, but you didn't even address what you had said. You're being evasive with both of us now.

And from “from past discussions”, Jayb? Hardly very scholarly for someone who claims to know better than those who study sociology and those who utilise the knowledge we’ve acquired from it in their professions.

Back to my request, though: how about you pick a sociological perspective and educate us on how it (or the knowledge that we’ve acquired from it) is utilised nowadays and why that utilisation is of no use? It would need to be pretty impressive too given all that it needs to negate.

Speaking of which, that list of fields I mentioned earlier should help you brainstorm if you get stuck for examples, .

Don’t forget to back your claims with evidence too. Don’t just assert.

I await your reply.

Pericles: The A$ equivalent of is 7/11d per hour is therefore A$1.58 per hour.

You are right. I had it upside down. White wine. Actually I make it A$1.61

How was the Lakemba Rally? You did go didn't you? Did you see poirot?

AJ: Back to my request, though: how about you pick a sociological perspective and educate us on how it (or the knowledge that we’ve acquired from it) is utilised nowadays and why that utilisation is of no use? It would need to be pretty impressive too given all that it needs to negate.

Well that's just the thing. I don't know how you use the theories that were out of date 100 years ago in a modern World. Unless you want to take us back to the last Century. I suppose it has become so Specialized that it like Cricket. Every time someone hits the ball it's a new world record of some description. It's still based on a Flat Earth & Witch Burning, theories that have no place in a modern World. Is there anyone doing any study at all on the 21st Century thinking. I didn't think so. Back to the 16th Century theories. They were good enough for people then, they are good enough for people now. Ay.

Good evening to you PERICLES...

Thank you for assisting us, by calculating my hourly rate as a static security guard. Do you agree that my remuneration wasn't particularly good, even for 1969. Or would you suggest it's more in keeping with my intellectual ability ? A low wage commensurate with a low intelligence ?

And of course you're right, Edgware Road does commence at Marble Arch, still it was all a long time ago. My last and final visitation to my beloved London was in 1995. And I had misplaced my trusty A to Z !

Walking down Kensington High Street, I couldn't help but notice many of the shop signs bore Arabic script. The old trio of Department Stores, 'Barkers', 'Derry & Toms', and 'Pontings', all split into smaller retail holdings, and yes many with Arabic signage ? Across the road, the hitherto magnificent Royal Garden Hotel, now regrettably showing it's age, was crowded with wealthy Arabs and their heavily veiled ladies (presumably).

I've got to say, how London had changed, since my first visit in '69 ? It seemed as if were almost in another country, as I meandered down the High Street towards Olympia. Of course there's this amazing Arabic presence everywhere even so, at no time did I feel uncomfortable nor even nervous ? A sign of the times I expect. They (the OPEC nations) have buckets of cash and many wish to invest in western European countries, such as the UK, obviously it's all quite lawful, so why shouldn't they ?

Actually their Islamic strategy is simplicity personified; you can't forcefully expel or expatriate someone from your country, if they own most of it ? That would be preposterous, and certainly not very British !

Naturally, many of my old friends weren't happy with what they describe as the Arabic invasion, or what they see as the cultural trespass, occasioned upon their private gardens, and their quaint mews ? With evidence everywhere of filthy lucre ostensibly emanating from Arabs visitors ? Still I don't hear Harrods or the wealthy Regent Street traders complaining ?

But how could you assume they were out-of-date, Jayb?

<<I don't know how you use the theories that were out of date 100 years ago in a modern World.>>

You don't even know what any of these theories are. If you did, then you'd... Oh, I don't know... choose one that was less than 100 years old, maybe? In fact, off the top of my head, I can’t even think of a sociological perspective quite that old. Only two of the three main sociological perspectives are over 100 and even then, only by a couple of decades. Hardly “out of date 100 years ago”.

This is the argument from incredulity fallacy too, by the way. Just because you can’t see how “old” theories could apply to today’s world, that doesn’t mean they don’t. Furthermore, when I say something is “quackery”, I’m not saying that I don’t know how it would work; I’m saying that it doesn’t work, or that there is no evidence that it works.

So if you could explain to me how any of the sociological perspectives amount to mere “quackery”, then that’d be swell. You don't have to know how one would utilise the perspective nowadays, you just have to point out how it couldn't work. And hey, you can even choose one that’s over 100 years old, just to make it easier for you.

<<It's still based on a Flat Earth & Witch Burning, theories that have no place in a modern World.>>

Care to give any examples? Of course you won’t. You just invent whatever crap you like.

<<Back to the 16th Century theories. They were good enough for people then, they are good enough for people now.>>

So first, sociology was about finding the “meaning of life” (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6587&page=0#198583), now it’s about improving people? How can you determine that sociology is useless when you don’t even know what it’s used for?

Time to start making good of your claims, I think; or walk away with your tail between your legs as you had to on the last thread.

AJ: How can you determine that sociology is useless when you don’t even know what it’s used for?

Exactly right & neither does anyone else outside a small clique of Avant-garde Navel Gazers gloating over their Brandy & lime in their exclusive Club.

AJ: So first, sociology was about finding the “meaning of life”

Have you found it in any of the old writings? I didn't think so. It's 42, everybody knows that.

400 years ago the great Philosophers of the time still argued that the world was flat, The heavens were holes in heavens seven layers where God spied on his people. Illness was caused by bad vapours & the Devil & you take these peoples literature as a blueprint for knowing the "Meaning of Life." Yair right.

Society has changed greatly even in the last 100 years. the difference between in those 100 years ago & now is an extremely large chasm.

"400 years ago the great Philosophers of the time still argued that the world was flat"
Jayb, considering that Magellan and Drake had both circumnavigated the world more than 400 years ago, I can only conclude you don't know what you're talking about!

And sociology was never about finding the meaning of life. I think you're confusing it with philosophy (though of course some philosophers would argue that's not what phillosophy's about either).

Sociology is the study of how people behave in groups.

You're stalling, Jayb.

<<Exactly right & neither does anyone else outside a small clique of Avant-garde Navel Gazers gloating over their Brandy & lime in their exclusive Club.>>

I guess I must be in that club then, along with tens of millions of others. Nice. I like brandy.

So you agree with me then that you’ve changed your position somewhat? Good, we’re getting somewhere at least.

<<Have you found [the meaning of life] in any of the old writings?>>

So now you’re misquoting me; answering something I didn’t say; and persisting with the “old writings” line even though I’ve shown your claims there to be false? Dishonest three times in one sentence - I don’t think I seen that before. Nice going.

<<400 years ago the great Philosophers of the time still argued that the world was flat, The heavens were holes in heavens seven layers where God spied on his people. Illness was caused by bad vapours & the Devil & you take these peoples literature as a blueprint for knowing the "Meaning of Life.">>

Again, it was you who thought the goal of sociology was to discover the “meaning of life”, not me. Only one paragraph later, you’re already believing your own lies. I don’t think I’ve seen that before, either. You’re really on a roll here.

By the way, none of the current sociological theories are from people 400 years ago. This is just more of your own made-up rubbish.

<<Society has changed greatly even in the last 100 years. the difference between in those 100 years ago & now is an extremely large chasm.>>

So then, proving your point shouldn’t be too hard now, should it.

I’m still waiting.

Jayb,

"...an extremely large chasm."

That would be the difference between candor - and the sort of shifty disingenuous bilge you serve up on a daily basis on this forum.

I just realised I misread something you said earlier, Jayb.

<<Back to the 16th Century theories. They were good enough for people then, they are good enough for people now.>>

I missed the “for”s and thought you were saying that people in general were good enough back in those times [without sociological research], just as they would be today [without it].

But on re-reading it, I can see that you were actually being sarcastic; as if I had suggested that 16th century theories were good enough for today; and as if any of the theories or perspectives that I’ve been referring to were actually from that long ago. I gave you too much credit in thinking that you were just being naive, but as it turns out, you were putting words in my mouth. That’s really pathetic. And you’re delusional enough to think that your credibility is still intact.

Still waiting for your response, by the way.

I’ll give you a little hint this time, though: even if the sociological perspectives WERE from that long ago, they’d still be valid; and every time you claim that they couldn’t possibly be, you demonstrate that you don’t even know what they are. You are simply making a claim that sounds like it should be logical, in the hope that it’s right, because you have no idea of what it is that you’re even referring to. The perspectives are frameworks with which to view the development, structure, and functioning of societies; they’re not theories that attempt to explain them. If they were, then you’d probably have a point.