SteeleRedux, torture is not generally a big topic at my branch meetings, although I freely admit a couple of members can be some what torturous when they speak. I have not come across all that many Green members advocating torture, in fact I have not come across any I can recall.

Hi there CONSERVATIVE HIPPIE...

Thank you for your question, it was indeed valid. However, if you don't mind, I don't have any knowledge or an opinion on how the matter was resolved. I'll admit 'curiosity did kill the cat', and I rang a former colleague, though not at the scene, nevertheless like all 'nosy' senior coppers picked up something, and if true, it's not good at all ? I'm sorry about that CONSERVATIVE HIPPIE !

In 1987 I participated in the 'FBI Urban Sniper's & Marksmen's' School, conducted at Camp Roberts, on the edge of the Mojave desert. The school was conducted entirely by the Bureau, sponsored by the US Army, with specialist instructors from The US Marine Corps, and the US State Department. The long rifle I used (FBI Property) was a Remington Mod 700, with a McMillian Heavy Barrel spitting out .308's. This was my qualifying 'weapon system' only. All other weapon systems we qualified with were of a specialist nature, and not relevant for this discussion.

The only reason I've added this 'useless now redundant piece of data', is to reinforce what IS MISE stated, apropos the decision NOT to 'make the shot'. Had this individual secreted explosives about his person...well who knows ? I'd NOT like to be a hostage if this was the situation !

Today, on the ABC I heard a survey had been conducted by the 'Washington Post' (I think, I'll stand corrected?), after the revelations of the CIA's admission of torture. Apparently, a significant number of those surveyed 'fully supported' the application of torture by the CIA ? A substantial majority was reported ? It's comforting to know that I'm not the only; twisted, brutal, cowardly dysfunctional bastard who supports torture in certain circumstances ?

Hey HASBEEN, what going on ? You're obviously not impressed on how the coppers resolved the matter, and while true two innocents lost their lives, still ? I know nothing about their tactics, or strategies other from a mate who wasn't there so I can't comment ?

What's up mate ? I agree with absolutely everything you say, about multiculturalism, bleeding hearts etc. but the coppers I'm not sure I follow ?

O sung we

the question certainly needs to be asked why the police snipers were not able to shoot this madman before causing the deaths of the innocent. Certainly a very hard call but the question at least needs to be asked. Without any great knowledge of guns I would of thought if they had clear view with cameras that they should have been able to hit their target. Obviously the thickness of glass etc needed to be considered.

Hi there RUNNER...

Indeed you've posed a legitimate question as did CONSERVATIVE HIPPIE, and I'm sorry I can't answer it for you. And you're quite right, thickness of glass etc. there are many considerations impacting upon a sniper. Have no doubt the Coroner will get to the facts relatively soon ? One thing I will say, the emotional pressure an incident has on both the sniper and his observer is massive. We were all under training, but the sweat poured of us all, despite it. It should be remembered too, both sniper and observer are wired for sound, very heavily equipped, and if the weather is hot, well you'll know it!

Something I do believe, the outpouring of public grief, for the two fatalities has restored much of my faith in the goodness of most people, it quite amazed me ?

o sung wu

thanks for response.

'Something I do believe, the outpouring of public grief, for the two fatalities has restored much of my faith in the goodness of most people, it quite amazed me ?'

Have to agree. It also brought out the fools of Greens one of which made some idiotic statement about how good it was to have no traffic in Sydney at a time when innocent hostages were bailed up by this madman. Their perverted ideologies know no decency.