ABCD your response says it all mate....

"So what about this Ka`b he was a Jewish tribe leader that fought against Muhammad why wouldn’t he kill him?"

You see.. THAT is the problem we have with Islam (and no, I'm not a Jew..I'm an evangelical Christian of Scottish/English ancestry)

To you..(and many Muslims) 'Political Assasination' is 'so what'..... its just another day at the office.

You say Ka'b was:
"A tribal leader who fought against Mohammed" ..

lets analyse:
a) Ka'b was upset that mohammad had murdered noble leaders of the Quraysh tribe after the battle of Badr.
b) Ka'b was a poet, who wrote poetry which annoyed Mohammad.
c) Ka'b was making liasons with the Quraysh
e) MOST IMPORTANT.. he had not laid a finger on Mohammad or any Muslims.........

i.e. he was NOT attacking anyone. He was 'stirring'..political agitation.

Then, based on his poetry and political activities, Mohammad asked who will MURDER him... and Mohammad Maslama volunteered.
The went to him by NIGHT and lied to him, then stabbed him repeatedly until the blood drained from his body and he died.

IF THAT is your understanding of surah 2:190etc

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out;

Then YOU are a terrorist in waiting.

You see.. you have demonstrated the 'double standard of convenience' which Muslims hold.

FH "Only defend against attack... don't trasngress"
ABCD "It's ok to murder political enemies who are not attacking"

So, clearly YOU regard simply talking as an attack/invasion ... this means that if someone speaks against Mohammad today, you accept that they can be murdered..
-do you see how dangerous your thinking is ?

I'll be at 55 King street Melbourne at the VCAT courthouse this morning 10:00am with descendants of Ka'b (Jews) and Atheists, and Christians.. do you want to send a hit squad to hunt us down?

Steven
Like I said earlier there is a lot of speculation about the age of Aisha, the age is derived from hadiths. I’ll tell you what I mean, Mohammed first married khadija and during that time they went through battles e.g badr and uhad. To be part of these battles you have to be the age 15 or over any younger and you’d be sent home, Aisha participated in these battles, and Mohammed married her after the battles after his former wife died. So just from that we know she would have to be 15 or over. Anyway that’s another issue the issues isn’t about muslim history.

People can say whatever they like, though why is it that everyone’s speech is limited? Be it a non muslim, and ex muslims or a muslim? It’s when people use offensive bigotry remarks when it’s out of line. Besides half the things Ayaan Hirsi Ali disagrees with were culture issues so I believe she was portraying the muslim community in wrong which gives of the image of the people in that society as stupid ignorant losers. And then that causes discrimination and prejudice. I have Muslims neighbours and they do nothing of that sort.

What do you mean by special protection? If God wills something to be protected it will be protected. No one needs special protection. Why do governments get special protection? Why are they any better than your average Joe on the street? Maybe the same reason religious figures are protected

BOAZ
To me, the story was about a guy who openly said go kill Muslims through his poetry maybe even other means and was on and off through war, so they attacked him. What proof do you have he didn’t lay any finger on anyone? He was a tribe leader. Back then they would lead fights the leader was the best of their armies.

To have the intention to kill someone is just as bad as killing them. Besides this is one account, do you think all people are innocent and perfect? They’re all mankind inevitable to sin. Besides the narration you gave was through wiki and little quote was from Islamic sources so you can’t tell of its authenticity, so the judgment is baseless.

The killers fault for lying not Mohammed’s, everyone is accountable for their own actions.

And no it’s not my understanding read the first line of that surah you posted “fight in the cause of God those who fight you” so it shows you: don’t attack unless someone attacks you, like der! Besides I wouldn’t take bits and pieces and quote them you don’t know what verses were before or after or the context of the whole chapter so you could be taking it out of proportion

It’s not double standards, it’s different understanding, give me proof that Ka`b never killed nor did anything bad and I will say fine your right they did wrong. Truly do you believe humans are Gods? You don’t think a muslim can sin? Why can Christian’s sin and get away with it or even Jews or anyone for that matter and not be put on the spotlight? No sin is justified.

Clearly you see what I do not. That little account shows one thing with empty gaps, not enough information is given to judge whether Ka`b was such an innocent man nor is there enough valid proof of authentic text to prove this

Do you think someone would ask you to murder someone over talks? It’s unjustified. From other character traits and history of Mohammed it clearly doesn’t show that his character was a bad one. I don’t accept his murder nor do I accept his life. Whatever happened was meant to be, God willed it. The reason only God knows. From that little summary I can’t say whether it’s justified or not, simple. I speak for myself so don’t “regard” or make assumptions.

BTW non-muslims lived in the area where Mohammed was/ruling, how come they didn’t get killed?

”I'll be at 55 King street Melbourne at the VCAT courthouse this morning 10:00am with descendants of Ka'b (Jews) and Atheists, and Christians.. do you want to send a hit squad to hunt us down?”

Haha nice sarcasm, sorry I’d have to give it a miss.
Until I can get valid proof of why he was killed and the background of Ka`b and read more history about it, I’ll place judgment, but reading a one sided view is just bias. I said so what because right now I worry about the here and now and future, if you dwell on the past you’re going no where.

And personally I believe everyone has their own philosophy on religion and people practice different to judge a whole community on one thing or something that happened in the pass is just unfair

ABCD Ka'b is just a click away mate..

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Silas/ashraf.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka'b_ibn_al-Ashraf

I'm saying he was not involved in any direct attack AT THAT TIME.. and this is critical. Muslims claim he was a 'combatant'. I disagree.

Once we accept that "so and so 'A' is talking to so and so 'B' and it seems they are out to get us, so lets KILL them, you on very dangerous territory, because there is no limit to how far you can extend this.

Without a trial... an examination... it is plain murder.

Did they verify in public court the charges against him? were they corroborated by other witnesses? Its not good enough to murder someone on the basis of hearsay. Did Ka'b have a chance to cross examine the hearsay witnesses?

This is a huge black mark on Mohammad, and I'm afraid 'God willed it' is only ok if 'God wills' Iraq to be invaded, Hussein to be hanged, and so on. In other words .. 'God willed it' can be use for ANYthing if you take that approach.

If we can stop Muslim immigration to Australia 'God willed it' :) see ?

This morning I did some fascinating study on the life of Umar.. amazing stuff.. I think Umar was FARRRRR superior to Mohammad morally, and interestingly, he was originally attracted to Islam based on Surah Taha which is probably one of the CLOSEST of all the surah's to the Old Testament, in fact using many of the same words and stories. Then... when his concubine is pointed out by others in his doorway.. he says "She is not permitted to me..she is Allahs property" when in fact the Quran DOES permit her for his sexual use.
Surah 23:5-6 On this issue, Omar shows more restraint than Mohammad.
Omar also outlawed 'temporary marriage' which the Quran allows.4.24

Omar should have embraced Judaism.. his life was more that of a Jew than Muslim. He at least reflected the personal holiness required by Yahweh, rather than the lust of Mohammed and sexual licence of the Quran.

abcd

and all other interested parties,

here is an unambiguous question:

Do you think the Australian government should allow Ayaan Hirsi Ali to visit Australia?

I am not asking you about the merits or otherwise of Hirsi Ali's opinions.

I am not asking you whether you believe Hirsi Ali's critique of Islam is fair and accurate or is a load of garbage.

I am not asking for an opinion on Hirsi Ali's character.

I am not asking you about Australian government policy as regards Iraq or anything else.

I am not asking you about John Howard's character.

I am not asking you what you think of Bush or Blair.

I am not asking you about what God will, or will not, protect.

I am not asking about anyone else you think should be barred from Australia.

I am not asking your opinion on capitalism, socialism, Christianity, Islam or disestablishmentarianism.

The question is:

Do you think the Australian government should allow Ayaan Hirsi Ali to visit Australia?

This is a question capable of a "yes" or "no" answer as in:

YES, I think the Australian government should allow Ayaan Hirsi Ali to visit Australia.

Or:

NO, I do NOT think the Australian government should allow Ayaan Hirsi Ali to visit Australia. They should keep her out.

Whatever your answers I hope you will share your reasoning with us.

Do you think the Australian government should allow Ayaan Hirsi Ali to visit Australia?