Julia Gillard supposedly told one lie and was mercilessly vilified for it.
The current government cant stop lieing constantly.
Whether it be education, health, pensions, unemployment, the ABC et al they have shown themselves to be utterly devoid of credibility and nothing but complete liars and frauds.
Their defense of their lies, which consists pretty much of more lies, is utterly contemptuous of the Australian community and no one is buying it as far as I can tell. Do they really think the Australian people are that stupid.

Why should the people of Australia have to put up with such blatant liars in public office and what can we do about it?

Stop voting.

mikk>> Why should the people of Australia have to put up with such blatant liars in public office and what can we do about it?<<

With a two party system mikk, we are stuffed if their moral compass is missing.....and I believe it was lost by our two self serving parties 30 years ago.

I wonder how minority party coalition governments work. Italy has had about 50 governments in 60 years.....is that a reflection of true democracy? If one of the coalition partners doesn’t get what their constituents’ want they bail and call an election......

mikk,
You know you will have to wear it until the next election, at least.

What you can do is present your evidence to forums like this. So list all the lies and wrong doings and see if they go uncontested or if the changes can be justified.

I did exactly that and I had a list of '50 Labor Lemons' none of which were contested.

Be interesting to see if you can beat that.

vote for who ? both major party's suck
I hope pauline comes back

Banjo, I have a request. Will you please provide a link to where you listed 50 Labor lies which were not contested? Thanks.

Pesky Boy,
You will have to trawl my record from before the last election. I posted it quite a few times and in two parts, as it is extensive.

I had a quick look but it did not stand out. Give it a try and if you don't get it I may have to try another source. I will post it when I get it.

Maybe this http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4585

R0bert

RObert, on Banjo's final tally on page 12 of that link, it adds up to 18 "stuff ups", and not one of them was an abandoned pre election Labor promise.

I was hoping Banjo meant 50 Labor pre election "lies" when he mentioned "50 Labor lemons" on the 1st page of this topic, seeing the title of this topic is "Liberal = Liar". I thought Banjo had listed 50 Labor lies, and it seems he didn't. Is that correct Banjo, or did Robert link to the wrong previous topic from you?

Banjo, I'd love to read your listing of 50 Labor pre election lies. I've looked but I can't find your listing so far. I can only find 1 lie ... carbon tax. Please, please Banjo give us the link to those 50 Labor lies, we need you to defend our Tony and show everyone he's only a little liar compared to those 50 big Juliar lies. I trust you Banjo, you only write the truth, so let's get that link to the 50 Juliar pre election commitment lies you mentioned. Thanks Banjo.

Oh bugger, I just found this on the internet, "Abbott's broken promises reach 50" http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbotts-broken-promises-reach-50-as-the-abc-joins-the-party,6731

I'm really disappointed now. Please Banjo I need your help, would you please give us your link to those 50 broken Juliar promises and provide us with 1 extra Juliar lie, making it 51 Juliar lies? That way Juliar will be proven to be the biggest liar.

Here in NSW we have been overwhelmed by both Labor and Liberal Party lies and corruption. The party that has consistently shown itself to be the party of honesty and integrity is THE GREENS. Federally we were subjected to the lying Howard Government, Rudd and Gilard could not be trusted to tell the truth and now the Abbott Government are showing themselves to be nothing less than unmitigated liers. Again the party which shows itself to be trustworthy, love em' or hate em', is THE GREENS! While others draw up lists and agonise over which bunch of crooks, Labor or Liberal they are going to vote for I simply vote GREEN knowing I am getting honest value for my vote don't know about the rest of you.

Aussie-boy, only one person could do a worse job than Tony, and that is the mindless Pauline.
Don't wish that on an already very disillusioned Australian public!

PB, Tones told us after the books were publicly audited before the last election that, whatever state they were in, his promises would stand.

So far not a single lie, just efficiency dividends.

Tones wasn't voted in, Labor was voted out, so don't get so pesky and picketty about it all.

Big Clive's in trouble, Jaques around the twists. Pauline a jail bird. Bill's a dill and Tony is all baloney! Only left with one alternative VOTE GREEN!

Let them all lie, but to each other: lock them all in Canberra and throw the keys to the place where MH370 fell. So long as they are kept out of our lives, why not allow them do what they like most?

Robert,
Thanks for posting that link, it did provoke quite a deal of lively debate and I continued to post the list occasionally. Here is a later one I found this morning.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5139&page=0#138644

Sorry PB, I never said it was all lies.

Politicians need exposing for their lies and blunders. People tend to forget. I don't know, but maybe my list had some bearing on last election. I did not notice the LNP making use of it, but it was freely available.

The boats are stopped (that is something Labour/Greens) said could not happen (they lied). The carbon tax is gone (another thing the Labour/ Greens) said could not happen. Yep Abbott lied but I am surprised by the moral relativist who now seem to think lying is wrong.

"...Yep Abbott lied...."

Thanks runner!

Poirot, runner must have read the 50 Abbott lies that I posted on the previous page. It's wonderful that runner has now admitted that Abbott is a much bigger liar than Gillard. Thanks runner.

Yes, all politicians lie.

Tony, however, ran his whole campaign ranting and raving about Labour's lies, and how he would always be truthful to the Australian public.

So, somehow his lies seem to be even worse of a sin!

Well I do not know how many of you saw the original replay of Abbot's statement but
there is a lot of dishonest video editing of the No Cuts to ABC.
Just before the oft repeated statement he refers the viewer to Hockey & Turnbulls'
statement on how there will have to be savings across government.
You never hear that part of it.
Of course he should never had said the part that everyone is objecting to so it is a valid
complaint to that extent.

But forget all that if you think it is terrible now then I suggest you go to bed for a few
years as it will be unbearable to you.

In any case the Scott cuts seem to be worse than the Abbot cuts.
I'll bet you want to ignore that, HA!

Will just indulge myself here with Bronnie's latest tally...

Boot-outs during Question Time.

LNP - 4

ALP - 269

18 booted out today in what's being lauded as a new record for Biased Bronnie....guess how many of those were from the Govt benches? (chortle....)

Aussie boy: vote for who ? both major party's suck
I hope pauline comes back

Me too mate, me too.

SUSEONLINE...

You're absolutely spot on ! ALL these morally corrupt politicians lie, and lie incessantly ! These ethically bereft mongrels should face criminal charges, similar to anyone else who are subject to 'taking an oath of office' before being permitted to undertake their sworn duties ! But no, where everyone else faces charges (police, defence personnel, judiciary etc.) this unmitigated swill, seemingly get away with it ad infinitum !

There should be a dedicated wing, out at Long Bay Gaol, for these wilfully perjured maggots, who betray the public confidence, and the immense trust they've unwittingly placed in them ! They should face gaol, without hesitation, whenever there is a scintilla of evidence of corrupt behaviour, just like the rest of us. And to think they have the right to have a special detail of police to protect their miserable carcasses, if there's a threat assessment established, is absolutely laughable, it really is ! Gaol the lying bastards !

I'll say no more. I've just this moment heard on the radio, that Phillip HUGHES has just died. Why on earth, do bad things happen to good people ? ** RIP Phillip.**

Boot-outs during Question Time.

LNP - 4

ALP - 269

just shows how juvenile the wreckers of Australia are Poirot

Yes indeed runner.

Hopefully they won't be in government for long.
People are beginning to see them for what they
really are - as you so eloquently put it -
"Wreckers," yes indeed. And, salesmen - selling
o9ff everyting they possibly can overseas.

4 LNP kicked out! Must have done some serious stuff for Bronny to give em' the boot.

anyone with quarter of a brain would of realised that Abbott was lying when he said no cuts to abc/education. When Labour lied year after year about getting a surplus, about the state of the budget, about the carbon tax, about having money for Gonski surely no one is now surprised. Horror horror, the likes of Foxy/Poirot's hatred for Abbott started long before he lied. Even if he did not lie they would still find some way of making out he did. People will judge at the next election of who lies less unfortunately. Or they could vote for the Greens who promote abnormal lifestyles to our kids and worship nature while lining their pockets from their false religion.

OK, when you have all vented your spleen, just take a deep breath and contemplate what
we should be doing about the falling revenue the government is about to experience.
It is not just the iron ore mining but other areas of the economy that are failing.

I was at one of our local shopping centres today, it is one of those smaller centres that
have one supermarket and just about everything else that is needed, travel agents,
dress shops, four banks, hairdressers, post office, doctors , dentists, coffee shops (5),
real estate agents (2) and an arcade of about 16 shops of which 8 were unoccupied.
That arcade was always busy, but now a hair dresser, a real estate agent, a computer
shop, and others that I can't remember have gone and the shops have been empty for
at least six months.

The major shopping centre in the area is still busy with few empty shops but there has
been over the last 12 months a fair bit of closing and opening.
An industrial area for small business in the district has fifty units of which thirty are
occupied.
Looking at the business list board at the entrance all the names have been painted over.

Is this unique ?
Is this a worry ?
Is it a sign of zero growth ?

Runner,

"anyone with quarter of a brain would of realised that Abbott was lying when he said no cuts to abc/education..."

You say that as if it's the electorate's fault they're stuck with a mendacious dishonourable rabble for a govt.

Well, actually, quite a few people don't accept it's okay to lie your way into office wholesale. When, practically your whole agenda was a misrepresentation, people get a little shirty.

Having spent the recent past listening to the govt lying about their lying, it's refreshing, runner, to hear you admit Tones is an accomplished liar - and apparently only those with a quarter of a brain would have perceived it! (Most voters have got a full-sized brain, so it's no wonder they didn't twig on:)

"...Horror horror, the likes of Foxy/Poirot's hatred for Abbott started long before he lied. Even if he did not lie they would still find some way of making out he did..."

Perhaps we're better judges of character than you are, runner. Perhaps we can tell a political thug when we see one. If the LNP can cough up someone half decent, it will be something. They've plumbed the depths with this lot...what a debacle of a government.

Paul1405: Big Clive's in trouble,

Yes he is, not only with only two Senators left.

Paul1405: Jaques around the twists.

Is she. She is at least standing up for her State & what she believes in. She's not doing back room deals with the two Major Parties. She, at least is trying to force the LNP into making good Legislation for all Australians, not Legislation based on, "What ever you're for we're against because you're the enemy."

Regardless of which side of politics you are on they ALL lie. It just goes with being a Politician.

It certainly shows how on the nose the lieberals are when even runner's support is lukewarm.

Todays question time was a classic example of a government on the defensive. They just keep digging the hole deeper every day.
It is always a sign of a fatally wounded government when the opposition and the public laugh at your every word.

They had the chance but they blew it with their dishonest, ideology driven attack on the poorest and those least able to fight back. Or so they thought. It turns out that despite a few nasty penchants regarding outsiders and the endless frivolity of slagging the unemployed etc the Aussie public does care about those less well off and wont stand for them being harmed or cut off from support and help when they need it.

The lieberals are finished.
Nothing can save them.
A change of leader would be a farce the same as it was when Labor did it.
A reversal of their dogmatic budget would open them to total ridicule on the left and probably vicious revenge from their master murdoch.
A double dissolution would see them decimated
and holding the same course, deep in the gutter, till the next election will see them electorally lynched.

People, please define what's the difference between not having the ability to eventually fulfill a commitment, and lying? I think this needs to be cleared up before the current state of the discussion can have some credibility.

For example, a mother can say to her children, "next month I'll take you to Luna Park". The mother has the genuine intention of taking them to Luna park. Then one week later she loses her job, so because of this she can't afford to take the kids to Luna Park, so the kids don't get to go there. Did she lie to her children when she said, "next month I'll take you to Luna Park"?

The same principle applies even if the mother simply changed her mind. If she had the genuine intention to take the kids to Luna Park, told them so, then later changed her mind, does this mean she lied to her kids when she originally told them they're going to Luna park?

Dear runner,

Criticising a politician's or a political party's
behaviour does not amount to "hatred." Holding
politicians accountable is part and parcel of
a democracy. Voters are entitled to be critical -
as you should well
know - having yourself displayed some very robust and strong
views against politicians and parties you haven't
approved of on this forum.

According to recent surveys - and political
commentators and journalists - trust in all the major
parties is at an all time low. It seems that
from the voters' point of view - there's not much trust,
not much faith, and no inspiration. Victorians are going
to the polls this Saturday and according to the
experts - a Premier won't be voted
in next week: he'll get there by default.

Most of us know why more
inspiring people and those who are genuine visionaries and
leaders don't put up their hands for the jobs. We're
told by commentators regularly - of various political
persuasions.
If the party machines don't grind them down (i.e. if
they can bring themselves to sign onto their incredibly
limited party platforms) then the media gotcha game will
grind them out.

That's the political state of play
Sad as it is.

Pesky_boy, the language gets messy around broken committments. If the committment to do (or not do something ) is part of an incentive to get someone else to do something then in my view the responsibility rests with the person making the committment to fulfill it or seek the approval of the person the committment was given to regarding a change.

If politicians make a committment to help get elected and a change of circumstance makes that committment difficult to fulfil then in my view it should be back to the poles unless both sides of politics agree that it is a genuine change of circumstance.

I would like to see some of the rules that give a massive advantage to the incumbant when it comes to costing of election promises changed to remove some of the issues around that aspect of politics as well.

R0bert

Let's just move along a bit from the "all pollies tell lies" theme.

How about we acknowledge that the Abbott govt in particular got itself elected by almost totally misrepresenting its intentions.

This is where we stand:'

http://www.afr.com/p/national/pm_credibility_comes_under_assault_kPASbaXhEXzQSaBBC11c5O

Laura Tingle

"Something has snapped in federal politics this week as the distractions of foreign policy ventures fade and the final week of parliamentary sittings looms with no end to the budget impasse in sight.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott finds himself defending the indefensible, or the already mortally-wounded, on three different fronts.

First, the government’s budget strategy is dead, a seriously ex-parrot, and we are left just going through the excruciating process of seeing how it is brought to account in next month’s mid-year budget review.

Yet the government persists – for now – with the fiction that it will all come good in the end.

Second, the prime minister’s credibility has been shattered, not just by a series of broken promises that have emerged through the year but by what one of his own backbenchers described as Abbott’s “verbal gymnastics” in trying to suggest that he had not broken any promises. The cut to ABC funding has crystallised voter disgust at such gymnastics.

Finally, the only thing that stopped an increasingly confident attack by the Opposition on the collapsing edifice of the budget bottom line and the Prime Minister’s trust deficit with voters was the spontaneous combustion of Defence Minister David Johnston when he declared on Tuesday that he would not trust the Australian Submarine Corporation to “build a canoe” . This opened up a whole new front of Labor attack on ministerial competence."

"As Abbott’s credibility is under deadly assault, and the authority of his senior ministers is missing in action, the resolve of both Labor and cross benches to stand their ground only increases.

Voters, the business community and the financial markets now see the budget impasse as a disaster of the Coalition’s own making, rather than the product of a dysfunctional Senate."

'Well, actually, quite a few people don't accept it's okay to lie your way into office wholesale. When, practically your whole agenda was a misrepresentation, people get a little shirty. '

Oh Poirot after years of defending Gillards lies and promises of surplus and sleazy dishonest deals with the Greens you take the high moral ground. The fact that Labour left such massive debt and destruction obviously meant no one was going to get the country back on track spending more and more.

Abbotts lies just confirms the corrupt nature of man. He certainly has done no worse than Gillard, Rudd,Wong, Shorten and the perverted Greens on that score.

Obviously it would be much better if he told the truth however we are left with none who tell the truth at all times in politics. MOst can't even keep a marriage vow so how on earth are they going to keep their word to the public.

From runner, "Labor left such massive debt". From Pesky Boy, "which was quickly DOUBLED by Abbott".

Pesky Boy Tony Abbott said "next month I'll take you to Luna Park". So the people voted for him and sure enough he kept his word and we are all in Abbotts version of Luna Park. LOL
Glad to see some are waiting for the return of the female messiagh Pauline Hanson. Her and Lambie would make a great tag team combo.
My next prediction is Big Clive will do the bolt at the end of this parliament. Agree?

runner,

"Obviously it would be much better if he told the truth however we are left with none who tell the truth at all times in politics...."

Here's a run down of Abbott's behaviour in student politics:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/17/1089694611874.html

"At the more cosmopolitan Sydney University, Mr Abbott had burst like a snapping terrier into student politics.

He took on left-wing students in aggressive battles for positions on the student council and was a spear-carrier in a push to dissolve the powerful Australian Union of Students (AUS).

It was the late 1970s, and Mr Abbott and others who would later become prominent public figures were cutting their political teeth as the social tumult of the post-Vietnam era spilled onto the nation's campuses."

""He was a very offensive, a particularly obnoxious sort of guy," said Barbie Schaffer, a Sydney teacher who was at Sydney University with Mr Abbott.

"He was very aggressive, particularly towards women and homosexuals".

Published university reports show that after a narrow defeat in the university senate elections in 1976 - Mr Abbott's first year of an economics-law degree - he kicked in a glass panel door.

In the ensuing two years, he was repeatedly accused in the university paper of being a right-wing thug and bully who used sexist and racist tactics to intimidate his opponents.

Lawyer David Patch, who is a Labor candidate in the federal seat of Wentworth, recalls an AUS conference in the mid-1970s, which had initiated a special "women's room" for females to discuss political issues.

"Tony used to stand outside the women's room with his right-wing mates and loudly tell sexist and homophobic jokes," he said."

Read on - it's fascinating.

That's the kind of character behind our illustrious leader.

........

Paul,

Regarding Palmer, I agree.

He hardly ever turns up to vote in the HoR...being more interested in what riches his Senate strength can provide....in his own interest, it appears.

Poirot, spot on about Palmer. A few of the 'Usual Suspects' on OLO would have been attracted to the parish pump politics of Palmer and voted for him, These people never learn, they will now switch their vote to someone like Hanson.

Poirot,

I honestly thought the Howardphobia could not be surpassed. You have proven me wrong.

Dear runner,

It was surpassed by the Coalition when in opposition -
using terms like - "Juliar," and other tactics.
What goes around comes around. It's called
"Karma."

Foxy

you demonstrate so well how you justify your prejudices. Don't worry you are no different to others. Ever thought of being a journalist or lawyer?

runner,

We all demonstrate so well how we justify our prejudices.

Don't worry, runner, you are no different to others.

runner you hate just as well as anyone here does.

This isn't about hatred. It is about people not liking being deliberately lied to over and over again. It is about the current government which is about as rotten as it is possible to get and where they go from here.

IMHO rabbott is finished. Once they start laughing at you it is over. It is only a matter of who gets to knife him. Us at a DD or the election in two years or his so called colleagues in the lieberal party.

Dear runner,

Reading your posts I can't help thinking:

"There's one more argument for birth control."

'"There's one more argument for birth control." '

Yes Foxy and you display the vileness in one's heart so well. Don't forget the 'progressives'are not happy with birth control. They also want to murder the child when it fails or they could not be bothered taking it.

Come off it runner, Foxy is only giving you a bit of your own back.

Dear runner,

What would you know about the "vileness" in
anyone's heart on a public forum such as
this one. At best you should look to
your own heart and your own words.

And try to remember that -

"...the highest appreciation is not to
just utter words, but to live by them."

Runner is no Christian as demonstrated by the vileness in quite a few of his posts. "Pretend" Christians like runner are everywhere.

THE GREENS are celebrating as the LIBERAL LIARS are given the boot in Victoria. The Victorian result is down to two simple factors, firstly a lying incompetent state mob lead by a political clown, and secondly the federal factor as the good folk of Victoria wanted to send a clear message to the Liberal liars in Canberra, the chief liar being the head himself, Tony Abbott pack your bags!
Congratulations to Ellen Sandell in winning the seat of Melbourne for THE GREENS, our first lower house seat in Victoria. Ellen achieved a whopping 9.8% swing! The Greens could pick up two other lower house seats as well.

Paul,

This too...

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/nationals-could-lose-party-status-after-disastrous-showing-20141130-11x412.html

"The formal alliance between the Liberal and National parties in Victoria could be dumped after a disastrous performance by the Coalition in the regions.

The National Party faces losing party status in Victoria, with its state-wide primary vote reduced to about 5.3 per cent, compared to 6.8 per cent in 2010."

Hi Poirot, The Nationals are becoming an irrelevancy on the Australian political landscape. Who are their constituents? What do they represent? Nothing. 30% swings unbelievable, Labor at it worse in NSW could only cop a 16% swing.
Typical of The Nationals is that big bag of wind, Barry 'Welcher' O'Sullivan. The grub took great delight in attacking Greens Senator Richard Di Natale over the shocking Ebola outbreak in West Africa, mockingly "offering" to pay for Richard to go to the region and see for himself. Senator Di Natale was a GP and public health specialists before entering parliament, and has decided do exactly that, go to the Ebola affected areas in Africa and see for himself. Naturally, the government through Minister Bishop refused Richard funding for the trip, which Richard is now paying for out of his own pocket. Richard put to O'Sullivan to make good on his word, but the grub shut himself when the acid was applied, denying all knowledge of his "generous offer". Incidentally, if the grub came good the money was going to an Ebola charity and Richard would still meet the cost of the trip himself.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/greens-senator-richard-di-natale-plans-diy-tour-of-ebola-zone-20141122-11rvp3.html

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nationals-whip-barry-osullivan-a-welcher-over-ebola-flight-offer-say-greens-20141129-11wo2i.html

p/s I don't think the likes of Barry 'Welcher' O'Sullivan would give two hoots about black people in Africa with Ebola, but an outbreak on his back door, now that would be a different story!

Paul,

Just saw a tweet where and link to ABC AM where apparently O'Sullivan blamed Barnaby Joyce for their poor showing.

Also...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-01/deloitte-access-economics-warns-the-budget-is-burning/5929216

"MYEFO: Deloitte Access Economics warns 'the budget is burning' ahead of December update"

And...Ross Gittins

"Who could have predicted what a hash a Coalition government would make of its first budget? If Joe Hockey wants to lift his game in 2015, as we must hope he will, there are lessons the government - and its bureaucratic advisers - need to learn.

The first and biggest reason the government is having to modify or abandon so many of its measures is the budget's blatant unfairness. In 40 years of budget-watching I've seen plenty of unfair budgets, but never one as bad as this."

"Frankly, you need a mighty lot of unfairness before most people notice. But this one had it all. Make young people wait six months for the dole? Sure. Cut the indexation of the age pension? Sure. Charge people $7 to visit the doctor, and more if they get tests, regardless of how poor they are? Sure.

Charge people up to $42.70 per prescription? Sure. Lumber uni students with hugely increased HECS debts that grow in real terms even when they're earning less than $50,000 a year? Sure.

What distinguished this budget was that even people who weren't greatly affected by its imposts could see how unfair it was to others."

"But a politically stupid degree of unfairness isn't the only reason this budget was such a poor one. Its other big failing was the poor quality of its measures. It sought to improve the budget position not by raising the efficiency and effectiveness of government spending, but simply by cost-shifting: to the sick, the unemployed, to the aged, to university students and, particularly, to the states."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/why-joe-hockeys-budget-flopped-so-badly-20141130-11woo3.html#ixzz3KalizvqI

Thanks Poirot, a rather perceptive article by Ross Gittins on 'Hockey's Horror Budget' and the failure of same. As I said many times on the forum prior to the vote, and after, I was pleased with the election of the Abbott Government. To paraphrase Keating "The government we had to have." Not that I thought for a moment that they would be good for the country, to the contrary, they are exactly what I expected, a rabble of conservative dimwits, and they are certainly proving to be just that, philosophically driven conservative dimwits. You don't know what castor oil tastes like until you try some, and Australians are trying theirs now. Hopefully after this experience Australia will once more return to the fair and equitable society it once was. We can only hope.
Reading today's Herald, after the Victorian state vote, and given the federal kerfuffle at the moment Abbott's leadership is going to come under intense scrutiny over the holidays, and in the new year his fellow conservatives might deliver good old Tone a most unwanted late Christmas present, the sack!
p/s I'm sure Malcolm Turnbull will be playing the party Santa, offering plenty of political gifts to his fellow Liberals during the festive season.

Lol!, Paul, you'll like this...

Interviewed on 7:30, Daniel Andrews mentioned:

"I have had a conversation with the PM and he invited me to break a promise."

Abbott was the one that wanted to turn vic's election into a referendum. the people voted no, so Abbott can stick his tunnel where it is most apropiate. More public transport is what is required not another road.
It's time to get cars out of the city not add more.

It's time Abbott cleared his office and disappeared into the sunset. To many lies and a string of backflips has taken every bit of shine of of his rediculous may budget shambles.
There is going to be real problems trying to make the upcoming deficet look apropiate.

Abbott has been forced to admit he is an unmitigated liar, and would do and say anything pre-election to gain office. Where is the "moral majority" on the forum demanding Abbott's removal on the grounds he is a pathological liar, as they did with their favorite target Juliar. Where is the likes of Alan Jones on Abbott, not a peep, not a squeak. Jones was boisterous with Gillard over the Carbon Tax, and her pre-election promise, but not with Abbott and the ABC. Is Alan Jones biased?

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/alan-jones-lets-rip-at-juliar-gillard-20110225-1b7km.html

I love reading all these posts from left whinge hypocrites.

The real equation is Labor = Greens = LIARS.

Please tell me any thing that Labor or the greens promised that they actually delivered?

Just when I had given up hope of any of the "Moral Majority" fronting up to defend their current favorite son, the Mad Monk himself, lying Tony Baloney. Me thinking the shocking shenanigans of Tone had caused them all to commit some sort of forum suicide, up pops one of the leading members of that "Moral Majority" Shadow Minister himself. Dear old Shadow is well qualified to defend the lying Abbott, having recently mounted a vigorous defense, ha ha, of THE CORRUPTION PARTY (formally The Liberal Party of NSW) on another thread. See you have given that one away Shadow. Unfortunately dear old Shadow can't utter one word in defense of Abbott. Not good old son, not good at all.
Well, THE GREENS must be having an effect, Murdoch's gutter press, 'The Daily Telecrap' launched a front page attack on the party today, we must be getting under their skin, they are desperate, hitting the panic button, with a rantful rage against the party to there ever decreasing readership of neanderthal knuckle dragers. Sorry lads, it wont help you, those who read (if they can read) 'The Daily Telecrap' don't vote Green anyway.

Paul,

"...The Daily Telecrap' launched a front page attack on the party today ..."

Funny that, coz the Australian has unleashed quite a few articles (not paywalled) lately critical of Tones and his sloppy debacle of a govt.

Such as:

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/the-abbott-government-is-doomed-without-narrative/story-e6frg71x-1227131169889?sv=360078f6f8b0e64ff6611243a2046b19&nk=ff86022cbc809c6f7041cace04651d95

And...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/a-failure-for-abbott-to-do-some-vital-straight-talking/story-e6frg74x-1227138820838

And...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/coalition-must-call-labors-bluff-and-push-for-a-double-dissolution/story-fnc2jivw-1227137465098?nk=3fe09c7289f263dc09e982b624fab7b4

Peter van Onselen...

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/wheels-are-falling-off-as-abbott-careers-to-years-end/story-fn53lw5p-1227138796996

This morning Tones rolled up to the Today Show to have his tummy tickled, but instead Karl Stefanovic gave him a kick in the you know what's.

From yet another Murdoch site...

http://www.news.com.au/national/prime-minister-tony-abbott-cops-some-tough-questions-a-day-after-he-tried-to-hit-the-reset-button/story-fncynjr2-1227141559931

"“The reality is here that the budget position is in a shambles and every day it does get worse,” the Channel Nine host went on.

“It’s not in a shambles Karl,” Mr Abbott hit back."

(Ditto, says Shadow Minister:)

And the beat goes on...the Senate has just voted down Pyne's Higher Education Reform Bill - 33-31.

"Mr Pyne has been working relentlessly to win over the crossbenchers but it appears his efforts did not impress Senator Lazarus.

"Christopher Pyne is embarrassing himself and needs to stop harassing me and other cross benchers," Senator Lazarus said in a statement.

"I am being inundated with text messages from Christopher Pyne virtually begging me to support the Abbott government's higher education reforms.
Senator Nick Xenophon says he can't in "good conscience" support the government's universities proposal.

Senator Nick Xenophon says he can't in "good conscience" support the government's universities proposal.

"I have never given Christopher Pyne my mobile phone number.

"Christopher Pyne's office and other Abbott government ministers are continuing to contact my office and other crossbenchers offering all sorts of deals and incentives to get our support for the higher education reforms.

"I won't be bought and I am not prepared to horse trade."

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/stop-texting-me-glenn-lazarus-accuses-christopher-pyne-of-harassment-over-university-reform-20141202-11yflx.html

Poor old Pyney....desperate and dateless in Canberra.

Dear Poirot,

Here's another link that may be of interest:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/12/01/albanese-brands-negative-abbott-one-trick-tony-stinging-parliamentary-attack

It says it all.

Paul,

I gave up on the other thread some time ago, and let you continue to rave to yourself. As you belong the most hypocritical and deceitful party of them all you can surely be trusted to say one thing and do another.

The CORRUPTION party as led by Christine Minge, Adam Bent, Scott Dudlum, Disease Rhiannon have professed a devotion to an ETS and voted against it, pushed for a price on petrol, and voted against it, published a principle against taking corporate donations and took the biggest in Australian history, and took dirty money from the CFMEU and from one labor member to stab another in the back.

So don't try and lecture me whilst coming from a party that is so corrupt that it would could accept Obeid and Thomson and not change its character.

Here are some of the real names of the members of the Most corrupt party in Australia:

Brown eye Bob,
Adam Bent,
Contagious Christine,
Syph Sarah,
Septic Scott,
Loose Lee,
Wanton Whish, and
Poxy Parker.

Lol!...

That's as good as it gets from Shadow Minister these days, folks.

Sad really....

Thanks Foxy and Poirot some good posts there. Please show dear old Shads some mercy. He has just been diagnosed with "Stunned Mullet Syndrome". Yep the poor lads been boxed all over the ring lately on the forum and is simply punch drunk! No doubt the coupe de grace has been the shattering of his hero worshiping allusion of the pathological liar Tony Baloney. Son, all I can add, is keep your chin up, the knock out blow is on its way!

Dear Paul and Poirot,

Shadow Minister must be feeling desperate and threatened.
And no wonder.
Tony Abbott's cabinet - has been described
by a journalist in Saturday's, The Age, Nov. 29th 2014,
in the following way:

"Tony Abbott's assembled cabinet resembles nothing more
than a support group for undertakers with personality
disorders... this ..." has drained much of the backbench
and press gallery, leaving even Laurie Oakes feeling
wan and listless..."

When will there be a change of leadership for
both major parties?

Paul & Foxy,

Yes, the Credlin/Abbott/PMO style of running govt has got a lot of right-wing commentators worried.

Howard said today: "You can't be a successful PM without involving Cabinet".

Everyday there's a debacle which they have to spend considerable time papering over.

The criticism emanating from the Murdoch stable should give Abbott and his entourage cause for concern.

I recently asked Sky News anchor and columnist for The Australian, Peter van Onselen, if he still thought the govt would win a second term, something he thought was a given when they were elected.

His reply: "I do, but I'm getting less confident!"

Foxy, When will there be a change of leadership for
both major parties?

Poirot, I have to agree with Peter Van Onselen, after the election I said this mobs in for 6 years minimum, possibly 8 or 9. Now I say will they be there after the next election: Yes, but I'm getting less confident as each day passes.

Foxy, on that change of leadership, I believe Turnbull would turn the governments fortunes around fairly quickly, and win any up coming election, but it would take some drastic changers and some major blood letting on his part. There is a bit of mediocre talent in the cabinet, but Turnbull could live (survive) with that.
Shorten is rather ordinary in a very ordinary Labor bunch, but he has a very weak opponent in Abbott, most of the blows on Abbott are self inflicted, imagine what a Whitlam , Hawke or a Keating would do with a feather weight like Abbott, they would have him for breakfast. I try to imagine Abbott up against my political hero Jack Lang, in the bear pit of the New South Wales Parliament, but the thought of Abbott bleeding (literally) perfusly is too much. Lang made the other three I mentioned look like quire boys.
Over riding all this is very dark economic clouds building on Australia's horizon, which won't help any of them. Listing to Hockey last night he is hoping for an economic miracle from that imaginary being Santa Clause. It did not instill confidence in me for the future, with our dear Treasurer hoping for an economic miracle from the non existent Santa, by Easter, I suspect, if Joe is still around, he will be putting the economy into the paws of the Easter Bunny.

Dear Paul and Poirot,

It really is a case of Tweedledum versus Tweedledee
in our political arena. What's happening around us is
rather pathetic. As one journalist put it -
"When the local public school is so overcrowded that
it has to turn the library into a classroom, when
you're forced to sit in traffic for hours because
you live in a suburb with no public transport, when
your child is sick but the ambulance doesn't arrive,
your perception of the government changes quickly.
It is high time that we all started caring about who's
running this country."

Foxy, the people gave the incoming Abbott Government a fair amount of latitude due to their newness to the job. Many of their initial embarrassing mistakes were put down to their lack of experience on the international stage or dealing with domestic issues, but the honeymoon is well and truly over. Simply blaming your predecessor works for a while, but it does eventually wear thin, and things are thinning badly for this government right now. The people are now coming to realise the type of government they voted in. Even if Abbott was to be returned next election, his majority will be reduced and the Senate will be even more hostile than it is now to their unfair policies. I get the feeling that many from the big end of town are withdrawing their support for Abbott and that would spell disaster for any Liberal leader. Although the "Dry" faction can not tolerate the liberalism of Turnbull, they may go for a compromise candidate and put Jim Hacker as PM or some other wombat.

The beauty of a Hostile Senate is that it forces the Government to put forward reasonable Legislation. Although if the Hostile Senate is made up purely of the other Major Party the tendency is to oppose for the sake of opposing, "especially" if it's good Legislation. That's why I support having a good number of Minor Parties & Independents who can smooth out the bumps.

Foxy, Paul,

I'm always interested in the machinations emanating from the PM's Office and how the Credlin factor influences reaction from other Ministers.

Here's a good one:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/julie_bishop_goes_bananas_over_andrew_fIbf3kOJ0FRkb8gR7Qj0MP

"Julie Bishop ‘goes bananas’ over Andrew Robb climate chaperone"

"Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop has remonstrated with Prime Minister Tony Abbott after reading in the media that she was to be chaperoned by Trade Minister Andrew Robb at an international climate change summit next week.

Sources told The Australian Financial Review that Ms Bishop demanded a “please explain” from Mr Abbott this week after reading in Fairfax Media’s Sun-Herald that Mr Robb would be shadowing her at the United Nations climate change conference in Lima, Peru.

“Julie went bananas at the PM,” said one source.

The story is doing the rounds at senior levels of the government and fuelling growing discontent among cabinet ministers at Mr Abbott’s office, specifically his chief of staff, Peta Credlin.

Mr Robb is junior to Ms Bishop insofar as she is the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade.

She was not consulted about the “chaperoning” and it has been suggested Mr Robb, a hardliner on climate change policy, was to be sent by Mr Abbott’s office to ensure she did not over-commit Australia on climate change policy."

Keeping in mind that in order to shunt Abbott from the leadership, the party would also have to remove Credlin, it's interesting watching the disaffection mount.

Poirot, Abbott is highly sus of Bishop, you know being a woman and all that, not being one himself he thinks that she might be open to bouts of the agues (what ever that is) and palpitations (what ever that is), he would much prefer her home baking scones that talking about men's business in Peru. Tone also believes she could be open to flightiness when thing hot up, literally. So Tone's sending a man's man in the shape of Andy Robb to chaperone his lusty wench, okay. It could be a good idea if we sent someone to chaperone Tone on his next overseas escapade, we don't want him making a clown of himself, do we. What's Ronald McDonald doing these days, I would think he would make an ideal chaperone for our Tone, agree. LOL

Dealing with this left whinger knitting circle regurgitating the same rubbish continuously over 5 years is like trying to play chess with pigeons, they simply crap on the board and struts around like they have won.

Ladies, since you predicted Abbott would be overthrown by Turnbull it didn't happen in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014. Along with all the other mindless drivel you make up and tell each other, the only people that believe you are other LWNJs.

I'm still waiting for any of the LWNJs to point out a single promise that Juliar kept?

Let's review,
1 No carbon tax
2 Citizens assembly for carbon tax
3 Sort out the boat problem
4 East Timor solution,
5 Promised 200 times to bring the budget back in surplus in 2012/3
6 Promised not touch the health insurance rebate
7 Promised to sort out the mining tax.
etc
etc

As for the green Corruption party of Crusty Minge, their treachery is legendary, and can be trusted to do exactly the opposite of what they say, as in the case of the ETS, the petrol indexing and on corporate donations.

If you want to see what Aus thinks of the ALP:

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/12/04/1227144/077816-f6eb9258-7ac2-11e4-8ef3-1b6c58a796d5.jpg

And of its policy free platform:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-declines-to-reveal-policy-platform-on-abcs-730-20141203-11zm2p.html

The single biggest problem that the ALP and the Gangreens face in 2016 is that they will have to tell the voters what they stand for again, and the reality of Labor incompetence, the boats starting again, and labor spending wildly is seldom forgotten in one term.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You're repeating the same old party line.

Why do you suppose
Dennis Napthine did not want Mr Abbott in Victoria
prior to the Victorian election?

As Anthony Albanese pointed out in Parliament recently -
Mr Abbott "who
promised so much has morphed into a confused PM -
rapidly sinking into the quicksand of his own negativity.
He can't lead the nation - let alone his own
government which is split on policy and political direction
and crippled by internal power struggles.
This is a government being defined by disappointment,
deceit and incompetence."

"When the Abbott government was in opposition its only
focus was atacking the former Labor government. As
Opposition leader the PM built his entire case for power on
anti-Labor hatred and three word slogans. Everything about
politics, nothing about policy."

Nothing has changed. But you keep right on singing from
the same song-book.

Australian voters will make up their own minds as they've
recently done in Victoria. People can be fooled - but eventually,
they do wake up.

What is the new Victorian government proposing to do about Toyota?

No excuses, no duck-shoving, no booting the problem to others, what practical initiatives will the new Premier take, at what cost to the taxpayer and by when? Just the cold hard facts please. It is not as though the issues haven't been mulled over for ages.

otb,

It would be more appropriate to refer your questions
directly to the new
Premier of Victoria - The Hon. Daniel Andrews:

daniel.andrews@parliament.vic.gov.

Tel: (03) 9548-5644
Fax: (03) 9548-5634

' People can be fooled - but eventually,
they do wake up. '

still waiting for to happen to you Foxy. Certainly taking a long time.

Dear runner,

After you.

Unlike yourself - I don't define myself in terms of what
I oppose.

I think Foxy does protest too much!

The point is, dear Vixen, is that the left whingers are trying to rewrite recent history and have us believe that Juliar made just one little slip up in an otherwise perfect career.

Notably Foxy does not try and disagree with what I posted, probably because it is well documented, but that Juliar lied constantly from when she knifed Rudd "It all happened suddenly and I was asked to step up" to "I have complete confidence in the member for Dobell" when only a moron would dispute the iron clad evidence, and the phoney "misogyny" speech to cover up the sexist filth of her speaker.

That does not even deal with the 50 000 boat arrivals, the NBN debacle, the press censorship attempt, the BER debacle, the record budget deficits etc.

Compared to Abbott whose 3 main promises were:
1 Stop the boats
2 Repeal the carbon and mining taxes,
3 repair the budget,
And already has 1 and 2 in the bag and is part way trying to fix 3 in spite of Labor blocking savings measures, half of which were ALP promises.

So every time Labor bangs on about broken promises, they need to be reminded that Labor was 10x worse.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Nah. Your problem is that you try to grasp
some sense of who you think I am. The truth is
that it falls pitifully short of who I really am.
I'm above and beyond all that you're capable of
thinking.

You can't entertain any thoughts
other than what the Party Line dictates.
The same old crapola about blaming Labor.
And that old chap is why I really don't have the
inclination to respond to your same old, same old,
rhetoric and spin, in any depth. It won't achieve
anything.

Be happy.

Carry on.

Foxy (to Shadow Minister), "I'm above and beyond all that you're capable of thinking"

Of course you are dear, you possess enormous unrecognised talent and understanding that ordinary people could never understand. -Superior Being that you are.

LOL

Shadow, I like you foray into humor, play chess with a pigeons, "they simply crap on the board and struts around like they have won."

As for your Santa cartoon, that applies to Cocky Joe Hockey, just the other day Cocky Joe made reference to the fact he is rely on Santa to deliver an economic miracle this Xmas to save his bacon with his bad economics through his failed budget.
Cocky Joe is forecasting declining living standards for most Australians under his economic watch.
Seems this decline will not apply to ALL. I read of a Liberal porker, Defence Minister David Johnston has been living it up at taxpayers expense, with his snout well and truly in the trough, $190 bottles of wine and a $300 a head 5 star dinners, for him and his cronies! This is the clown who said he wouldn't trust Australians to build a canoe and wants to purchase submarines overseas without any tender process. not content, the grub sacked staff members who he thinks might have snitched on him!

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/defence-minister-chaos-as-two-staffers-ejected-amid-leak-investigation-20141203-11zhxm.html

Beach, you ask about the new state government in Victoria and jobs at Toyota, how about asking this Liberal clown the same question, or being as "unbiased" as you claim you are, do you only ask such questions of Labor and Greens?

I'm sorry vixen,

I was unaware that I had expressed any interest in who you are or your state of mental health. I care not that the far left whingers living in a fantasy world that they spin for themselves and have wandered into their fantasia in twitter where LWNJs excite each other by sending silly pictures and block anyone that dares to puncture their world with facts.

However, if you wander blinking into the light of the real world you might find that your fantasy collapses without the unbroken support of your LWNJs, where people do not dismiss facts simply by calling them propaganda.

The monk wants to get his hands on the money they want to take from universities and give it to glergymen.
Just as well we have a strong senate, to keep these rats in line.
Abbott as a one man parliament is in dire trouble.
The boats are stopping, you mean the boats are being diverted, and at gigantic cost and ongoing. Some 50 Billion has been added to our deficiet so what has been acheived, nothing.
There will be great discussion about Abbott over the break. Bishop is positioning herself with a new boyfriend and getting up Abbott's nose.
A self confessed liar, with one friend left, all others are behind bunkers peeping over the wall.

SM,

"....I care not that the far left whingers living in a fantasy world that they spin for themselves and have wandered into their fantasia in twitter where LWNJs excite each other by sending silly pictures and block anyone that dares to puncture their world with facts."

The problem with RWNJ's on twitter in my experience, is that they usually resort to abuse - not that I get into too many slanging matches on twitter... it's easy to block.

As for "sending silly pictures" - this from the guy who gets his jollies from composing such masterpieces as:

"Here are some of the real names of the members of the Most corrupt party in Australia:

Brown eye Bob,
Adam Bent,
Contagious Christine,
Syph Sarah,
Septic Scott,
Loose Lee,
Wanton Whish, and
Poxy Parker."

Not a skerrick of genuine wit!

Love your "3 main promises"

That would be "core" promises, I presume.

Poor old Shadow, merely echoing Abbott's oft repeating and hollow mantra. This govt is a train wreck (as noted recently and often by Murdoch's many commentators) and no amount of trite 3-word slogans can paper over their deceit and ineptitude.

Abbott's latest 3 word slogan:

"HELP, HELP, HELP!"

otb,

You must be feeling more inferior than
usual this morning. I am wonderful -
and you're just a troll.

Never mind.

Try planing kisses on your mirror - it might
work. Or better still, try - putting the boot into
Foxy (again) - ah, you've - been there done that ...

Better luck next time.
Keep trying.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Try changing your tactics on this forum.

You man have more success and credibility.

Paul1405,

I say you are right when you ask what the other main political parties are doing about the car industry.

While as a taxpayer I don't mourn the passing of The General and others, I would have liked the research and testing to remain and be developed, along with the ancillary industries.

Maybe it was impossible, but I would have liked government and Toyota to have had earnest consultations re a different car for Australia and the world, perhaps one that valued simplicity. Some lateral thinking was required.

Then again, the ADRs force complexity and higher costs, so it is back to chicken and egg.

Returning to Victoria's new government and Premier however, I was criticising the politics played before and hoping to contrast that with what will come now that they are in power.

Beach, there is probably little any state government can do directly to save jobs in private industry. Indirectly there are a numbers of avenues open to them, not the least working to attract private investment to their state, which leads to job creation. The state governments must be strong on public investment, schools, hospitals, public transport etc, which are huge creators of both short and long term jobs. The states have to work hard to make sure they get a fair deal from Canberra as they do not have a lot of revenue raising powers themselves.
If jobs are lost in the car building industry, but money is put into public transport, the nett result could actually be more jobs long term, not less. I believe Australia does not have an expenditure problem, although governments could run a tighter ship in some areas of expenditure. Rather, I believe Australia has an income problem, we don't generally need new taxes, like raising the GST, governments needs to ensure tax that should be paid is paid. If some from the big end of town are legally paying 1% tax, the government has a moral obligation to correct that situation. Does this government have the intestinal fortitude to tackle the problem, I don't think so, Labor couldn't, or wouldn't, but in those days there was plenty of money in the cookie jar.

Parrot,

I can always count on your complete lack of impartiality. If you paid attention, I only bring out the silly names when Paul's ravings get too over the top, not that you could ever bring yourself to criticise a left whinger.

As for twitter, the many of the LWNJs will react to the slightest criticism with not only abuse, but vile invective that would make a streetwalker blush.

Finally, before you accuse Abbott of only keeping core promises, please enlighten me as to which of Juliar's core promises she kept? Namely:

1 No carbon tax,
2 Resolve the boats problem,
3 bring the budget back to surplus.

Paul1405,

All should be well aware of the politics of all of the political parties by now, so lets leave barracking for one side or the other out of this.

First cars, the cars the major makers thought were required are no longer in demand. Major problem. A change in direction takes years, is hugely expensive and is a punt the taxpayer shouldn't be stumping up for.

Nonetheless I think some consideration should be given for partnered research with a reputable maker, Toyota, for the simple, practical car of the future.

Regarding expenditure and speaking broadly, of course government has an increasing cost burden. That is obvious from aged health and support needs, alone.

Just sticking with expenditure on the aged for a moment, but hoping not to make them the whipping boys any more than some have done already, of course there will be some limitations introduced to restrict services for them and especially health services.

While on that subject, the change in Australian population demographics, the contribution of diversity if you like, will see the previously unthinkable become not only possible, but implemented in short order to keep public health care afloat. Once taboo questions, such as should a person who abuses his health be provided with expensive (and limited) treatments, the benefit of which are immediately trashed through his own decisions and lifestyle?

Priorities will be set, even if such decisions are disguised.

Such decisions cannot be related to age because there are (say) sixty year olds and sixty year olds. However it is perfectly reasonable, principled and ethical to give preference to patients who are the best prospects, even if they were not first in line for service.

SM,

"I can always count on your complete lack of impartiality. If you paid attention, I only bring out the silly names when Paul's ravings get too over the top, not that you could ever bring yourself to criticise a left whinger."

Let's hear that again..."I can always count on your complete lack of impartiality...."

Excuse me if I fall about laughing at your hypocrisy...a complete lack of impartiality is your specialty.

And I don't give a toss when you pull out your puerile silly names. Every time you do it you demean yourself in the intellect stakes - not Paul.

Don't talk to me about lies....with Abbott people have given up listing which undertakings he's kept...opting instead to itemise the many he's gone back on.

Lol Give it up shallow minister. Youre making a fool of yourself.

Rabbott is the PM now not Gillard or Rudd. They arent even in parliament FFS.

This is all about the lieberals and your attempts at distraction and obsfucation are not going to change the fact that rabbott LIED!
Again and again and again.
He knew he was lieing and he thought he could weasel his way out of it later.

Well it is later and no matter what you rightards say rabbott and the rest of the liars are going to pay.
No one trusts them. No one believes them.
We are all laughing at them every time they open their mouths.

Now we are laughing at you too shallow. Talk about gullible. Talk about blinkered. Talk about dumb.

Return to the past, even Abbott has stakes in that. I am out of the country for five months, come back and Abbott is still there.
Au is not looking very flash at present; we should be doing a whole lot better. Our unemployment is in free fall and no prospects for future gains. Victoria has turned its tail on Liberal and national, the nat’s would be better off supporting the labor govt, or go extinct. Shepparton has gone independent, held by Ross Edwards for donkey’s years.
Our treasurer Hockey doesn’t seem to be very influential; he is hamstrung at every turn. The xmas break is our only hope of sorting this mess out, if not we are in dire trouble and can only hope for a supply block so the voters can sort this out. If there needs to be a fresh election I hope it is before mid March or I may have to miss out on all the fun.
I hope Turnbull and Bishop combine to put some reality back into federal politics, Abbott and Hockey are not working and have caused far too much damage to be a realistic team

I really don't know what you lot are arguing about. Who is the greater liar. the ALP or the LNP. Both have done a very good job of lying. I think the scores are equal. No contest on either side.

Let's get rid of both Major self serving Parties next time.

Shadow, how can you say "I only bring out the silly names when Paul's ravings get too over the top," Oh! the slings and arrows, Shadow obviously you are referring to some other Forum Paul, a Feral Forum Paul no less, not this lovable Little Green Pixie, who has gained your trust and respect. You know as well as I, that my posts are the epitome of reason, totally and unscrupulously fair to all, including our great and noble leader. When have I ever besmirched the good name of our Prime Minister! Anthony John Abbott, a man among men, a true champion of the people, a hero of the common man no less! You will never see me referring to the omnipotent one as Tony Baloney, you will not see me given to the those crass pseudonyms that some apply, The Mad Monk or Phony Tony. I will never refer to our illustrious Treasurer Joseph Benedict Hockey as Cocky Joe Hockey, never ever, never, never, never. Rest assured never will such vile and contemptuous names pass my keyboard.

Paul

A friend of mine's father was suffering from early dementia, and on good days he was lucid and while forgetful, could hold a conversation. On other days some when he had not taken his meds, he could be irrational, moody, wildly inappropriate and generally a nuisance and embarrassment.

Yes you do remind me of a slightly demented pixie that believes fervently in green fairy tales and while occasionally can appear rational often goes off the rails.

Parrot,

While I don't pretend to be impartial, I don't attack a left whinger for responding in kind to another poster's comment.

To all the left whingers, I have yet to get a response to any of my previous queries, so it can be taken as accepted by all that:

1 Gillard and Labor broke every promise, not just one,
2 Labor has presently broken many pre-election promises by voting down saving measures it promised and some introduced to parliament previously,
3 Labor is a policy free zone that lacks even three word objectives.

SM,

"1 Gillard and Labor broke every promise, not just one,
2 Labor has presently broken many pre-election promises by voting down saving measures it promised and some introduced to parliament previously,
3 Labor is a policy free zone that lacks even three word objectives."

Is that really the best that you can do at this juncture?

I mean really?

(I'm overwhelmed by your wit. "Parrot" is stupendously hilarious and has us all splitting at the sides:)

mikk in all honesty they are all lying bastards. It is not just a Coalition disease. Central Bankers own most of our political parties since they create from nothing all the money for our Govts to exist.

Parrot,

As much as you would like to sweep Labor's abysmal past under the carpet, you can be sure that in 2016 it will rise again in full glory. And as you have so clearly shown no one can dispute it.

The problem that Electricity Bill has is his ties to the corrupt unions. Again I see that being focused on when elections come around, and his part in shafting workers for a payment to the unions.

It's apparent,SM, that you've got nothing if that's the best you can come up with.

That's what happens when your heroes turn out to be duds.

Here's the latest...Abbott all but completely dumps his trumpeted "signature policy":

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/rich-mums-denied-paid-parental-leave-cash-with-savings-to-be-spent-on-childcare/story-fnpn118l-1227147124551

"WEALTHY mums will be banned from big payouts under Tony Abbott’s paid parental leave scheme and the savings will be ploughed into making childcare more affordable for all Australians.

The Prime Minister will announce today he has bowed to pressure to change his paid parental leave scheme in the hope it will secure Senate support allowing the government to deliver PPL in 2015.

His big concession comes as support for the Abbott Government plunged again according to an exclusive Galaxy poll with Labor leading 55:45 on a two party preferred basis — a ten point lead. For the first time, Labor has overtaken the Coalition on the primary vote with ALP support hitting 41 per cent."

Someone asked Samantha Maiden on twitter who leaked this exclusive.

She replied, "everybody man. Phone ringing off the hook."

Desperation "already".

Conservatives dragging up old worn out arguments will work about as good as it did in Victoria recently.
Another day another backflip so what else is news. I see Abbott has dragged out another photo of himself and his missus to remind us that he is human. None of their policies have worked, the boats are stopping, but not stopped.
The demolition of the carbon tax has done nothing but rob money from the economy, and carbon omissions are again rising. Abbott says that is a great achievement. He is doing his best to kill off solar, but finding it has a life of it’s own.
We can only hope of a complete change in the liberal camp, albeit impossible to see how any improvement can come about. Abbott is a one man parliament and power drunk. Their first 12 months was a shambles of governing for the big end of town and gigantic backflipps, not to mention their stance on carbon reduction, and being out of step with the rest of the world.
The Americans must have wondered what Abbott was on about when he was over there and talking about his problems at home, hardly the sort of thing you would expect, I wonder if he got any response, Or just more missed opportunities

Whadayareckon, SM?

This is about the 10th article from The Australian undermining the Credlin/Abbott leadership, and highlighting the debacle, in the last two weeks.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/galaxy-poll-voters-just-about-ready-to-ditchnbsptony-abbott/story-e6frg6n6-1227147184102

"Galaxy poll: Voters just about ready to ditch Tony Abbott"

"TONY Abbott risks becoming a one-term prime minister unless he lifts the Federal Government’s fortunes, with Labor opening up a 10-point 55-45 lead on a two-party-preferred basis.

After a week of confusion over the fate of the $7 GP fee and Mr Abbott’s confession that the Government had a “ragged” week, support for the Coalition has plunged again.

For the first time, Labor under Bill Shorten has also overtaken the Coalition on the primary vote since the election of the Government.

Support for the Labor Party has hit 41 per cent on primaries."

"The result will strengthen the arm of Government ministers who are insisting Mr Abbott change how he and his office operate. Mr Abbott is expected to announce a modest reshuffle of his front bench after his summer break."

Wow "backflip" = yet another broken election promise.
Abbott said this was an essential reform. So why no DD election if he believes this. DD election would give him a chance to campaign on specific issues..if re-elected he could claim specific mandates..if defeated he would then know that his views are out of step with those of decent hard working truth telling Australian citizens. Come on Abbott call a DD election NOW!
Another essential reform gone by the wayside, We voted for this government to govern for us, so what is happening, this is not what we voted for.
Nothing but lies ,backflips, broken promises, I am disillusioned by the government we voted for. Why don’t they get on with it and give us what we thought we were getting. Where does this govt; get it’s instructions from is it Abbott running a one man party or is it Peta. Who ever it is it is not working.
What about that shameful debt burden we have to carry around, it was shocking when labor left office, the conservatives will decrease that considerably now that we have a conservative govt; and run a surplus.
I am glad we voted to forget about the rich mothers scheme, that will save billions from going on our debt burden.
Doing away with that carbon tax only added a few billion on to your debt .
The mining tax is gone, it never raised any money, but it is gone, a remarkable achievement by this govt;
Our 7 $ Gp copayment tax, hasn’t gone down all that well, there seems to be a little opposition to it at the moment, in fact it has been a rather ragged week one way or another. We can only hope for a better year next year. CONT;

The boats are quite expensive but they are stopping, they haven’t stopped yet but they are stopping. It shouldn’t cost to much to encourage Canbodia to take some refugees of our hands. The mussa’s will really like Cambodia, and after a while you can get a visa to visit your relies in Australia. We have lots of visa overstayers here, and you get free transport back to Cambodia when you get caught.
There are several barnacles to be delt with and hopefully this will happen during and after the xmas break, we can then have a stable govt; and return to full employment and prosperity. There is only a few obstacles to overcome and then we will be on our way. People are gullible, or wishful thinkers.
This govt; was full to the brim with lies up until the last day before the vote, why they are still here is amazing. We were promised everything, and we voted accordingly, only to find it was all lies. Abbott was out of control and saying anything at all to get your vote. This govt; makes the office of Governor general look like a puppet to the liberal party at any cost.

poirot: "WEALTHY mums will be banned from big payouts under Tony Abbott’s paid parental leave scheme and the savings will be ploughed into making childcare more affordable for all Australians.

& so it should be. Unfortunately any increase in affordability for working class people will soon be negated by an increase in the cost of Child Care by the Child Care Groups. That's how it works.

poirot: Credlin/Abbott

Credlin is Abbotts minder from the Liberal Party Exec. She is there to make sure he toes the Liberal Party line. Abbott is just a mouth for the LP Executive behind he scenes.

579: The mussa’s will really like Cambodia,

There is a large moslim population in Cambodia. They are very quite people. I would hate to see them become radicalized.

Another one of Abbott's broken promises, regardless of whether you were in favor of Tony Baloney's extravagant, and ideologically driven, paid parental scheme in the first place, the giving of %75,000 p/a handouts to millionaires. The fact remains it is a BROKEN PROMISE! Incidentally, I was in favor of a carbon tax, but that is not to say its introduction was not a broken promise on Gillard's part, it was.
The moral character of Abbott is well known, it is a fact that after the vote in 2010 and before Gillard won office, Abbott tried to prostitute himself to The Greens and the independents, in a vain hope of gaining the PM ship, it was pathetic, the bloke would sell his soul if he thought it would get him somewhere.
Looks like Abbott is doing a political limbo dance, trying to see how low he can go! In todays SMH Abbott's approval is at 38%. Two party preferred has Labor 52/48. Not looking good Tone, could be a miserable Christmas Tone, as the knives get sharpened at the Turnbull place. oh! only to cave the Christmas turkey of course.

Parrot,

I get it that the government is not popular at the moment as it is trying to push through an austerity budget while the opposition is telling everyone that will listen that there is no problem.

And while I am sure that you are having a wonderful time going Na Na Na Na Na, the reality is that when the voters have to focus on the alternative, the ALP is a very unsavoury choice.

The Election betting odds as of yesterday were:

Election betting (Federal 2016):

Coalition remain strong favs: $1.60
Labor outsiders at $2.30

Given that they are very seldom wrong, I invite you to put your money where your mouth is.

Dear Shadow Minister,

There's one small problem with your election
betting odds and that is - Tony Abbott.
This is something that you seem to have neglected.
The following link may help clarify things for you:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tony-abbott-is-the-problem-with-the-federal-government-poll-20141208-12247a.html

It is a long way to the next federal election, but newspapers have to sell sensationalism to a dumbed down audience I suppose.

The CFMEU in Victoria is quick of the mark to show the public what they are missing out on federally.(sic)

It's all Abbotts fault, he can't sell his policies, no one is going to buye anything until you know what the price is.
His mumbling and bumbling doesn't make sence.
Hockey says onething and Abbott says the oposite
I'll bet SM made Abbott favourite, in the betting stakes. There is not to many conservatives willing to have a say is there. They must be stinging real bad.
SM is making noises like he has conceded defeat with 2 years to go, if they last that long. Abbott is hamstrung at every turn, he is not a salesman's bootlace. He should take pointers from a used car salesperson, instead of Credlin.
To be fair they should step aside and admit they made a host of mistakes and told a barage of lies and put them selves up for reelection.
With a new budget due in May and still trying to sell their inaugural budget. So how do you formulate another budget with the old one still pending.
SM uses the word of austerity, we didn't hear that word used at the last election, to my recollection. Maybe that was a hidden agendah of Abbott and Credlin liberal party.
What ever their budget was supposed to be it was badly thought out and completely biased and radical.

Abbott, says he is as unpopular as Thatcher, Reagan and Howard, I'll agree with that! His policies are just as "good" as the air head with that hair style, the B grade actor, and the galah in tracky dacks. Like Ronnie Reagan, our Tone could do a remake of 'Bedtime for Bonzo' with himself in the title roll.

What is happening in Victoria where the CFMEU has blockaded a building site is precisely what will remind the public of what life was like under the previous Rudd-Galah'd/Greens-Rudd governments.

What bigger lie could there be than a Labor leader claiming to govern in the interests of the electorate, but being the marionette of factions controlled by powerful union bosses?

<THE CFMEU has told builders it plans to shut down an Aldi construction site for “the foreseeable future” after stopping work on the supermarket for a second day.

The Herald Sun again saw CFMEU representatives block off the site at Millers Rd, Altona on Monday, after Geelong-based builder Magellan Projects was forced to abandon work on Friday.

CFMEU representatives again refused access to trucks carrying building materials, parking a car across the fenced-off site’s entrance to prevent them getting inside.

The Herald Sun understands suppliers contracted to the builder were today told by the militant union: “There’ll be (no work) happening there in the foreseeable future.”

A builder at the site allegedly responded that Magellan would have to look at “shutting the site down for the week”.

The Herald Sun understands the CFMEU has taken issue with Magellan Projects as it does not have a union-endorsed enterprise bargaining agreement and “owes money to people in the industry”.

Building industry sources said the union had a long-running battle with Aldi for bringing in international experts to oversee the German company’s specific method of laying its concrete floors to provide extra strength.

A CFMEU representative arrived at about 5.45am and at 6.10am was joined by a second union associate, who parked his station wagon across the entrance>

http://tinyurl.com/CFMEU-bullies-close-down-const

Nice try, otb....but it's going to take more than that to relieve the political landscape of the stench of this govt.

More from The Australian - this on Pyne wasting taxpayers money in the wake of his shrieking reform guff failing to gain traction in the Senate...

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/education/crossbench-senators-savageunderhand-uni-reforms-ads/story-fn59nlz9-1227149103196

Reprising Foxy's link - Hartcher....

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tony-abbott-is-the-problem-with-the-federal-government-poll-20141208-12247a.html

Tony Abbott is the problem with the federal government: poll

"Shorten's net approval rating today is 5 per cent, not outstanding until you compare it to Abbott's negative 19.

Shorten's lead lengthened by 14 percentage points in a single month, a sharp movement in so brief a span."

Alan Jones completely dismantling Greg Hunt on radio yesterday...

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/80276

Kochie completely dismantling Abbott on Sunrise yesterday...

http://junkee.com/tony-abbott-got-completely-destroyed-by-kochie-on-sunrise-this-morning-kochie/46816

Peta Credlin is the worst government strategist in the history of government strategists.

LOL, the guards comes up as well they should when the bloody-minded CFMEU is mentioned.

What the CFMEU is doing in Victoria and seemingly with the blessing of the new Labor government is putting men out of work before Xmas. So much for the sub-contractors who have been obliged to toe the union line but are still banned from the site by this blackmailing union.

What could possibly be wrong with importing German expertise to improve the strength of concrete? Might not there be benefit in new processes that will benefit the construction industry?

It is just union heavies WHO GET PAID ANYWAY (and lots of side benefits too apparently) who benefit from this.

Rudd and others were shafted by the faceless men and women of the union dominated factions in Labor. Yet here again in Victoria it is business as usual for one of the bloodiest-minded unions of all, the CFMEU, who have no qualms at all about putting their intsrests ahead of the ordinary men who will not be bringing home pay for Xmas.

Otb, Lol!...I couldn't give a toss whatever you're blathering about the CFMEU. I haven't bothered actually reading it.

I did note that the losing Libs in Vic started bellowing loudly about the unions once they realised that they'd lost their seats...as if unions don't represent the many who were shafted by the Napthine govt...you know, ordinary working voters.

But we all know the federal debacle had a big impact in Victoria, just as it impacted a 9% swing in Fisher toward Labor in a seat it hasn't held since 1985. Since when do bi-elections produce that result in favour of standing govt?

The Abbott govt is poison - with effects reaching into state elections.

You have a very short memory Poirot.

Why should Labor leaders, elected Labor politicians and Labor members live a lie?

<Kevin Rudd urged Labor Party to kill the ‘cancer’ of factions
THE AUSTRALIAN SEPTEMBER 26, 2014
KEVIN Rudd called for Labor’s factions to be “abolished” and claimed MPs’ preselections were threatened if they refused to support his removal as prime minister in June 2010.

He said MPs felt they had to “cower in the face of factional thuggery” and support his toppling by Julia Gillard. The former prime minister’s submission to Labor’s 2010 ­National Review said factions were a “cancer” as they ignored “meritocracy and creativity”. He recommended union influence be reduced to save Labor as a viable force.

“The factions have roared back to life with a vengeance,” he wrote. “They must be abolished from the party organisation. The factions, and those institutional factors which give rise to them, are the cancer which will destroy the meritocracy and creativity that can be the only guarantee of our party’s future.”

Mr Rudd urged party elders — Steve Bracks, Bob Carr and John Faulkner — to recommend “fundamental changes” to the party’s rules to outlaw factions and ­address its corrupted culture. And he urged caucus to “overcome its fear of factional leaders”.>
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/kevin-rudd-urged-labor-party-to-kill-the-cancer-of-factions/story-fn59niix-1227070782113?nk=fbed0b54bee0579448f6b4eb98c1b979

otb,

yada, yada, yada....like the Abbott govt, it's all you've got.

All you've got is too bleat Ruud did this...Gillard did that...Labor did this...

Who cares?

It doesn't address this repellent govt and its shambles.

On average, there are 4 or 5 articles a day criticising the debacle - and these days half of them are from the Murdoch stable.

Pathetic!

Do we have any problems with concrete floors, or is there more to it than a concrete floor. Sounds a little simplistic to me.
An inquiry was put in motion at the first blockade, if you can read. Aldi wants Adfil reinforcing instead of steel mesh reinforcing. Maybe they forgot to tell anyone when costs were being done. It’s not a reinforcing that I am familiar with atleast not in slab floors, Tanks and gutters yes .
There could be a planning problem there also, with requirements of using steel mesh as reinforcement.
Adfil is a synthetic fibre and cheaper than steel.
So what has that got to do with the shambles we have in parliament right now. They have got to sort this mess out now.
A new budget has got to be worked out before may, with the previous one still pending and unworkable.

Excuse me if I just tack this up on the notice board..yet more chicanery from the govt.

"The Abbott government is refusing to release documents detailing the cost and purpose of overseas travel by Coalition ministers, claiming they could "cause damage to Australia's international relations" if made public.

The government-wide clampdown comes after embarrassing details of Education Minister Christopher Pyne's lavish trip to London and Rome with his wife were revealed by Fairfax Media in September."

"The blanket refusal has been made despite freedom of information officers in the Education Department seeing no impediment to the release of expense details of Mr Pyne's $30,000 trip to London and Rome in April.

Mr Pyne came under fire after taxpayers were billed $1352 to "day let" a room at a swish London hotel before the minister and his wife, Carolyn, flew back to Australia on the same day. More than $2000 was spent on VIP services at Heathrow Airport for the Pynes.

The documents revealed Mr Pyne had got around guidelines that prevent spouses being funded on overseas trips unless in certain circumstances with a special letter of approval by Mr Abbott's chief-of-staff, Peta Credlin."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/release-of-ministerial-travel-costs-could-damage-our-international-standing-government-claims-20141208-121xca.html

Pyne just loves to splash around tax payer's money, don't yer know.

Empress Credlin's got a lot to answer for....

Poirot,

It was Kevin Rudd who was quoted and the link was provided. He demanded that the factions be abolished and that Labor parliamentarians, individually and the Caucus, "cower" before union-dominated "factional thuggery".

He referred to the factions as a "cancer" and urged “fundamental changes” to the party’s rules to outlaw factions and ­address its corrupted culture. And he urged caucus to “overcome its fear of factional leaders”.>

You ask, "Who cares?". What a silly thing to say.

otb,

What I meant was "who cares" about your desperate diversion.

I think it's just about to be announced that they're dumping the $7 co-payment.

Poirot,

Again, talking about lies. Why should Labor leaders and elected Labor politicians be forced by factions to always be living a lie? It is a lie of some magnitude to be claiming to represent their constituents when it is actually the unelected, unrepresentative factions who are interfering in the democratic process and telling them what to do.

<Kevin Rudd urged Labor Party to kill the ‘cancer’ of factions
THE AUSTRALIAN SEPTEMBER 26, 2014
KEVIN Rudd called for Labor’s factions to be “abolished” and claimed MPs’ preselections were threatened if they refused to support his removal as prime minister in June 2010.

He said MPs felt they had to “cower in the face of factional thuggery” and support his toppling by Julia Gillard. The former prime minister’s submission to Labor’s 2010 ­National Review said factions were a “cancer” as they ignored “meritocracy and creativity”. He recommended union influence be reduced to save Labor as a viable force.

Except that their dumping of the $7 co-payment was promptly replaced by a $5 discretionary GP co-payment (involving cutting Medicare rebate to doctors by $5)

....another tricky-dicky act of bastardry from this shambolic govt.

Tones on Kochie's show had all the coherence of Joh B-P. The "I never lied" defense is an affront to all Australian's. We'd have more respect for a mea culpa announcement but it would involve Turnbull being installed for the LNP to recover.

Had to laugh at his glass-half-full analogy to truth vs lies, stated with such astonishingly brazen chutzpah that he had me going, for a femtosecond.

Taking all credit for trade agreements years in the pipeline won't offset sneaky tricks like his cunning stunt over the co-payment.

Yes, this has been a stellar year for this government in opposition mode. It's antics amaze me daily.

Anytime Beach wants to provide evidence that what he has said is true, he provides a trusty quote or a link to Uncle Rupert's gutter press. Today I believe the Murdoch fish wrapper 'The Australian' is running a story on how the Fairfax media is clandestinely plotting the downfall of Cocky Joe Hockey. Now I ask you, have you ever known the Murdoch rags to run a campaign to "get" a particular politician, never! No, they have office meetings with Uncle Rupert on speaker phone from New York, giving out the riding instruction, it's all yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir!

And the frightful saga of backflipps continues as the 7 $ co payment gives way to common sense. Abbott wants to reduce doctors fees to compensate, which is not good.
This to me sounds like another policy shift on the run , and not thought about. I doubt if it will get up. They may as well forget about it.
Where does all these badly thought out ideas come from.

Paul1405, "Anytime Beach wants to provide evidence that what he has said is true, he provides a trusty quote or a link to Uncle Rupert's gutter press"

Too right I provide evidence and links. Although that is uncommon for some on here, who rely on their own stories.

What you are not saying however is that the quotes are directly from senior figures for example Rudd who was remarking on factions in Labor. He should know better than most.

Just as when ex-PM Gillard, who had the very great misfortune in be in partnership with the treacherous Greens, refers to the Greens as just a "protest party" you would have to take that as a reasonable heads-up from someone who learned from sad experience.

Beach, you take the opinion of Gillard as gospel on The Greens. The woman was conniving and treacherous herself, as she worked to undermine Rudd's leadership, all awhile professing her loyalty to the esteemed leader. Naturally, I do not expect Gillard to take responsibility for her own personal failures. Gillard also said Abbott was a misogynist, according to you Gillard should know and hence you must agree Abbott is a misogynist, and Gillards low opinion of Abbott is correct.

Even Murdoch's gutter press is unkind.

<<It is here Gillard's argument is at its most ingenious; she argues she didn't actively move to replace Rudd and was simply the right person in the right place at the right time.
But Gillard, like someone watching a man drown but failing to act to save the floundering colleague, is as culpable as those who threw the man overboard.
Gillard can argue until the cows come home that she did not actively work against Rudd, but her problem is she ensured she was in the right place as others shifted him into the killing zone>>.

It looks like Abbott's fiddling with the co payments is exploding into real cost recovery for doctors.
No one is going to be in favour of any thing to do with co payments.

This govt; are hell-bent on unemployment. 20% being ripped out of Tafe colleges.
Abbott screaming sexism, leave Peta out of it.
Bishop at odds with abbotts anti climate stance.