Poirot:
"Why don't you have a go at the root cause of these atrocities?"
Surely that's exactly what feminism is supposed to be about and for?
We see and hear endlessly about perceived discrimination in the West, and anyone who says anything they deem offensive, even if they have to misinterpret it or take it out of context to achieve that, is pilloried and abused, apologies demanded etc, but I have yet to see or hear one single thing about action for all the women repressed and suffering under Islam, or in Africa, or in South America, or Asia
As for "who says etc", I do, and others, so where is this action being taken, and by whom?
Foxy STILL hasn't responded to my questions and assertions, one can't help but wonder, why not?
Perhaps like most feminists, unpleasant truths are anathema and best ignored, or the source decried as either brainless or patriarchal?
Using ridiculous comparisons to doctors is just that, ridiculous, there is no possible comparison to be made, that's just obfuscation, another tactic much used by feminists when confronted by the real world.

Bruce, good for your girls realizing they can be and do anything their abilities and skills allows them to.

My kids, both male and female, range between 25 and 20. Both genders are wrestling with actualizing their potential and striving for their goals and fitting these in with partners who wish to do the same. We have one 25 year old who has started a family.

The gender discussion of how we are to negotiate our society didn't just end because girls can and do get access to any university faculty, can wear whatever they want and take out a bank loan in their own name. It is not just about 'women can now choose to be a home-maker or a CEO of a fortune 500 company'.

The raising of children, for instance, is still overwhelmingly seen as only a woman's issue. 'All these demanding women wanting time off from their careers and have companies keep their jobs open.' A male employee doesn't get pregnant and is not expected to participate at all in decisions of raising a family. Why should any company even want to employ a woman?

Many uni faculties have a higher percentage of women. So what's next?
Is it just really interesting that your daughter got a university degree and than just gives up to raise a family? Part of her degree has been paid for by the taxpayer. It wasn't done so she could fill in her days while waiting to find Mr Right. Should she juggle working part-time and care for her children, maybe not getting satisfactory results for either endeavour?

Just raising one aspect, that at least my kids, of both genders, are wrestling with and why they are all feminists

Hasbeen: 'If you don't believe that most ladies are still dizzy blond types, go check out the Pistonheads.com web site & have a look...' and then you proceeded to demonstrate your own daughter's ditziness.. Even the women of the Hasbeen tribe are not immune!

Conservative hippie,
To put it another way, fourth wave Feminism in my analysis is closer to a neo traditionalist movement because it negates female agency in exactly the same way as fundamentalist religions do. Feminism subordinates the state and the whole of society to the interests of women, in Islam and Christianity there's no state so for want of a better word the "patriarchy", the society of men plays the role of protector and provider.
I'll re phrase my first example, if a woman is raped according to Feminism she's not in any way responsible for her plight, saying that women's behaviour cannot contribute to this outcome negates any concept of female agency and reduces them to mere objects.
Fundamentalist religion and Feminism are the same idea except for their signatures or gimmicks if you will, with religion it's womanhood cursed by Eve's weakness, with Feminism it's "Patriarchy", both concepts discount female agency and depict women's behaviour as innate, primal and lacking any moral dimension.
I'm describing two schools of thought which are essentially the same,like Hitler the "Fuhrer" and Stalin "the man of steel", they were both socialists of exactly the same character they just used different gimmicks, Race for Aryan Man, Class for Soviet Man.

In practice gynocentrism is expressed as "women and children first",this is a mainstream view in all Western societies, in Christianity and in Islam, I don't know anything about the other religions and they're not really relevant to this discussion since I don't see them playing any major part in the future of this society.

Dear Jay,

<<If you believe in equality you're a Liberal,>>

No, you may well be a Communist then.
A Liberal believes that everyone should be free to live their lives as they wish, whereas under the assumption of equality, everyone can be expected to make the same choices.

Or you could simply be blind: because for anyone with eyes to see, it would become obvious that every human looks different, that no two look the same (well, perhaps identical twins, to a certain degree). Similarly you would also need to be deaf and have no sense of smell, for no two humans sound the same or smell the same.

Sure, deep within in our true essence we are all the same, for there is nothing but God, which we all are, but having taken on the persona of a human, for that while that we wear a human body, all our personae are apparently different.

<<I don't know anything about the other religions and they're not really relevant to this discussion since I don't see them playing any major part in the future of this society.>>

To the extent that Christianity and Islam are not Liberal and do not allow free choice, to that extent they are not worthy of the name 'Religion', to that extent they despise God. In their own words, they agree that "God has given us free choice", yet if they seek to take away what God has given, then they are apostates.

Religion will continue to intermittently guide us and our societies just as the sun will continue to rise and set, but if the Abrahamic traditions are not going to mend their ways and respect God's given gift of free choice, then they probably have had their day and better ones will take their place.

Yvonne, I suspect you've mixed me up with someone else, I never said any such thing about my daughter (28).
The facts are that she went to Uni to do Veterinary Science, specialising in genetics, working part time in an accountants office and also behind a bar on weekends. The accountants were so impressed with her they persuaded her to qualify as an accountant, just like her mother and grandmother before her, and her sister-in-law, curious coincidence or what?
She's now an accountant working in International Finance for a major multi-national , and section head to boot. She is in a relationship but isn't married and has no kids, as yet, if ever, she's ambivalent about the prospect.
I only have one grandchild so far, from my younger son (30) who married the accountant, just like his daddy did, lol.
Both my boys are professionally qualified too, the elder (37) is a robotics programmer, qualified chef and specialist welder, and holds degrees in Japanese, and also Korean, language and culture.
The younger has degrees in various areas of CGI and programming, and already has major screen credits and awards to his name, it's almost certain you've seen his work on TV as the company he works for does ads as well.
All my kids HECS debts, and their cousins', were paid in full by the estate of my younger brother who died when they were sub-teens, he had no children and left a trust-fund for exactly that purpose, he was their favourite Uncle and a wonderful generous man who's still sorely missed.
I also dispute your assertion that "The raising of children, for instance, is still overwhelmingly seen as only a woman's issue", that is far from true these days, it would appear to be another of those instances of trying to fight a battle already won.

yvonne, "..my kids, of both genders, .. are all feminists"

LOL In your company that might be, but would they have any say in it?

However it does remind of the feminists of the previous millennium, who were forever claiming 'partners' who allegedly worshipped them for their feminism etc., and (the partners) were totally submissive to and controlled by the said womyn, naturally.

About claiming street cred as a feminist. Not just last century, but last millennium as well.

Any wonder that young women flee screaming from the dinosaur feminists who are forever telling them how to live their lives and demanding that young women genuflect to them as well. Fat chance!