Is Mise,

Please don't mention the deer.

Chilli con carne made with minced venison, and near the end of cooking, a small handful of chocolate, a splash of red wine and fresh coriander.

Yummmm, venison and chilli.

Venison tartare (don't forget the Tabasco and anchovy) to start.

LM, I read your post with interest, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, but I still think you're missing my point.
I, along with many others, contend that we're turning our police from their original intended function as civil servants into a para-military force by default.
You have quoted two not overly murderous occasions, and alluded to others, but when one considers the numbers of police and the number of interactions involved those aren't even statistically relevant.
There is no denying there is a need for a para-military style section in the police, but does it necessarily follow therefrom that they should ALL dress and be armed in that manner?
While their command structure was indeed based on the military model it used to be that they were not seen in, nor acted in, that role, they were civilians.
I contend that the main driver for this process has largely been the aping of the American forces, and we can all see where that will inevitably lead.

Hi there folks...

Without thoroughly boring everyone by engaging in the dying practice of 'ballistic masturbation' I offer the following data for your consumption.

The preferred shotgun recommended for all forces in Australia primarily, for the use by specialised tactical units, is the Remington 870P in 12g, also designed to chamber the 12g 3" magnum ctg.

At one of the annual 'Australian Police Commissioner's 'pow wow's' the approved 12g round was the Federal, 2 3/4" of; 00Buck = 9 x pellets of .33 calibre ea.

The approved solid slug was either the Federal 12g 'Hydra Shok' or the much preferred 'Brenneke' slug in 12g. The latter by far the best choice.

Further, the United States being the more advanced (certainly by Aussie standards) in law enforcement shotgun technology, have adopted some of the Military variations for the SG. The military's famous 'Flechette' SG load (recall your Vietnam days, eh CHRISGAFF1000!) and the Rubber 'Shok', 'Fin Stabilized Riot' load. As well as the old favourite the, BFS 12g 'Hard Entry' load used for penetrating barriers similar to ordinary front doors etc.

As I'm sure most of you're aware, there are many uses the humble SG can be used for - far more than I can 'rattle off' here, including propelling Chemical Incapacitating Agents; eg in order of effectiveness; OC Pepperfoam and similar, CN CS CR DM The agents CR and DM can prove fatal in some circumstances and are totally banned for use by police in OZ. Only the military possess these two agents in their inventory.

In conclusion, the 'great equalizer' the humble 'shotie' can be either 'dressed up, or dressed down' depending on it's intended use.

If I was ordered to enter a large darkened building on my 'pat malone' in order to extract a heavily armed gunman, give me a 870P loaded with 'Double-aught' Buck, and I'd give it a go. You can keep your MP5 and MP10's, the 870P every time.

Come off it, Bruce.

Police are not civilians, Commissioned Officers of the NSW Police hold the Queen's Commission and, when in uniform, are entitled to the soldierly courtesy of a salute the same as Officers of any of the other Services.
When in uniform I always made it a point to pay the complement to my local Inspector whenever I had occasion to see him (kept me in his good books!).
All police in NSW have worn firearms when on duty since 1894, that is for the last 120 years, don't recall anyone being frightened by that fact; previously the police in rural areas carried firearms, sometimes both pistols and longarms.

o sung wu,

The banning of the Remington 870 (sporting, as most were) and the Ruger 10/22 (.22 caliber) is one of the main gripes of farmers, cullers and sporting shooters. Both are simple, practical tools.

The 870 is a long arm, entirely unsatisfactory for criminals, and shortening of it was illegal anyhow.

A Ruger 10/.22 is a squirrel rifle, a pea gun, but it had its uses for putting down stock, a bunny for the pot and the culled Brer Fox.

Of course the offenders don't apply for licences (wouldn't get a licence anyhow), don't go to the regulations to confirm what they are allowed and they certainly don't register their guns (say what?!).

It is always interesting how 'gun control' activists are always trying to blur the difference, a gap the dimensions of the Grand Canyon, between respectable licensed and certified law-abiding citizens who own legal firearms and use them for lawful purposes, and criminals.

But then again, ratbag 'gun control' activists also want police to be disarmed. Odd how they never mention criminals.

@Is Mise, Tuesday, 19 August 2014 4:59:25 PM

For information,
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL/11665/