Dear Jay123,

As you appear to be new to this forum, although it is hard to know these days, welcome. You will find there is rigorous and sometimes even rancorous debate but on the whole there are some niceties that are observed.

When viewing what you claimed of Ludwig;

“Let's just hope and pray he doesn't ever put his attitudes into practice, if he hasn't done so already.”

plus what you wrote in your earlier comment http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6462#192522 I think you went too far. There is no evidence that Ludwig is a danger to children no is there any indication that he is ever likely to be.

Obviously my posts to individual indicate the line might be somewhat nuanced but it is still there nonetheless.

I hope you enjoy OLO.

Secondly, some kid picked a fight after school and threw me to the ground on the school verandah, just completely out of the blue. The headmaster just happened by right at that moment. He told us both to stay put until he came back. Then he just went home and left us there. The other kid nicked off quickly. I was left waiting, by myself, alone in an empty school, too afraid to go as it would have been in direct violation of what the top authority figure of the school had told me to do. Eventually I left... at about sunset.

In both these simple instances, authority figures stuffed up very badly, and yet their actions were presumably normal practice. This had a huge impact on me. But even if I had made a big deal of these episodes, there would have been no come-back on them at all, let alone court cases, sackings, public condemnation and jail sentences.

Poirot, the actions of these two men was every bit as bad as Harris’ simple groping activities, IMHO.

We all have seminal moments like this. We all get wrongly-done by. Many people would have had much more significant experiences than I had in my childhood. I do not think that sexual matters, at the lower end of the scale as with Harris, should be treated in a far worse way than all manner of other things that affect us.

The trouble is that we have terribly blinkered people like Jay, who just jump straight to the end of the spectrum and completely condemn people, and are perfectly happy to see them completely destroyed, as a result of really pretty minor misdemeanours.

I wonder if Jay can appreciate my school experiences at all, or whether he/she would tell me that they were non-events and that I was a total woose for letting them affect me so deeply, and that non-sexual things like those are completely different to anything with a sexual connotation?

I will reply to your post regarding ‘C’ later.

Ludwig, "Do you really think nine months in jail is warranted for such an action?"

I don't have a daughter but my partner does, I can assure you that if some creep took it upon himself to grope her in the way that Harris groped his victims I'd and her family would consider 9 months far to small a sentence. Likewise if someone chose to grope the boys in our care.

I still don't get why you are so determined to stick up for Harris. This was not a one off incident, a really bad day for him where he just lost the plot. It wasn't a carelessly placed hand.

Now days a headmaster who did what yours did would most likely lose their job, possibly facing more serious consequences than that even if it was just an oversight rather than a deliberate and repeated action. Harris was not a one time offender, he was a serial abuser who showed no concern for the impact of his actions on his victims.

Yes there are other things that people do to hurt others some of which we find it much harder to put clear boundaries around. That in no way mitigates Harris actions.

R0bert

Ludwig continues on with his support of pedophilia. He has just written that he considers the pedophilia of Rolf Harris to be "really pretty minor misdemeanors".

THIS is precisely why men like Ludwig are a potential danger to our children. To these type of men, it's never a real crime, it's just "having a bit of fun, playing around".

People, by debating specific points with Ludwig you are making him feel empowered. He clearly has absolutely no insight into these matters and certainly no intention of changing.

People like Ludwig need medical and psychiatric help, and he won't get that here. Please don't allow him to feel empowered. Think of the innocent victims of pedophilia.

Ludwig,

I appreciate that you, like all of us, experience instances of unfairness...and that authority figures are prone to dumping everyone in the same basket and not addressing individual blame.

You ask...

"Do you really think nine months in jail is warranted for such an action?"

The difference between your story and Rolf's is that he "did" perpetrate the crimes.

You appear to be regarding each incident as an isolated aberration...not something that Harris did purposely and serially that was targeted, as in this case, at a very young child.

Just take a step back and put yourself in the shoes of, not only the child, but the parents.

Off we go to an event, and we're a little bit excited because we know that lovely Rolf Harris is going to be there. He's a great guy who's entertained us for years and even hosted a show about animals being treated in an Animal Hospital...just the thing an 8 year-old would find appealing.

So Mum and/or Dad, full of trust and not a care in the world, send Miss 8 off to line up for an autograph.

And 39 year-old Rolf goes straight to it and feels up the 8 year-old in the crotch.

Of course, it wouldn't matter if the perpetrator was friendly Mr Smigginblooper the janitor....a 39 year-old man getting his jollies from feeling up an 8 year-old is not on!

In this case, Rolf made use his fame and reputation to draw people to him...and then...

...abused them.

Poirot, please don't enable Ludwig to feel empowered by debating specific points with him. Both you and I surely know he has absolutely no intention of changing, no matter what you say. Debating with him won't change him, it only makes him feel empowered. He needs medical/psychiatric help in order to change. Society doesn't need Ludwig's empowerment. Let's all think of the innocent victims instead.