Nothing gets more debate on OLO than that to do with gender relationships, especially around DV.

"Women 'more aggressive' to partners."

http://news.optuszoo.com.au/2014/06/27/women-more-aggressive-to-partners/

The findings of this study are not really surprising, but what is surprising is that it is published, as there is a huge gender bias particularly in the media that usually portrays the image that men are the problem.

<Women were also shown to engage in greater levels of controlling behavior, which is <understood to be a predictor of physical aggression in both sexes.

Many commentators on OLO write about ending DV and finding the causes, yet any real examination is blocked by the statement 'blaming the victim'.

So in reality if we really want to end DV, a two pronged attack is needed, the first is too get women to stop using their controlling behaviour, and for men to learn effective tactics to deal with their controlling behaviour.

But I guess because this research does not support the current bias and prejudice, not much will happen and it will slowly sink from the public consciousness.

Women are trying to become men. Has anyone noticed that once women turn 30 or so, women start to look more like men? Men need to stand up to their controlling nature.

God didn't make Adam and Steve, he made Adam and Eve. He made them equal, but Eve had a role to play and it wasn't the role of Adam.

AGGRESSIVE..woman..?
YEP..I LIKE IT WHEN THEY TAKE the lead
its funny how they hang back/wheN YOU HAVE TO ACTIVLY GET INTO THE GAME

OF course it looks so scary/THEY DO LOOK A LOTLIKE MUM
AND MORE THAN A FEW LOOK TIKE WANNA BE confused with men[but thats a defence thing/woman arnt looking..they reallY BELIEVE THE POOP OTHERS NOT AS PRETTy or smart are epert at heaPING ON THOSE THAT THRATEN THEIR INSECurities

the s caLLED PRETTY ONES /ARE AS HUMAN AND AS LONLY AS the cuddly ones
but till you grow more EXOPERIENCED..ITS HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE

many get angry at woman because they dont giVE THEM A CLUE
THATS USUALLY CAUSE YOU MISSED THE CUE..its not their fault their MUMS WANTED TO MATE WITH JOCKS NOT GENUS..LIKE Us..

but in this time..who needs any-oF/IT
IM SO OVER the pretence of the lot of it/but thats my choice
so let them aloNE/they made their choice/and men arnt worth it/they dont eveN LiSTEN..which would be ok if only men would liSTEN/if only mums didnt pander to these little priNces/who,,NEVER LISTEN/WHO YAP YAP YAP and bnever LISTEN/AND WHO JUST SIT THERE NOT LIstening/cause we dont listeN

JUST LIKE A LOVER/iF YOUR GETTING THE LOVING YA DONT NEED TELLing
how much we love you/buT ONE ACT-352 words/fgive or take compounding VOCAL PRESUMPTIONS.[but if you keep listening/you go nutts]..LIKE ME/but no one listens.

once women turn 30 or so, women start to look more like men?
Right is Right,
Well, my observations showed me that women will always be women. Females on the other hand are the ones you're referring to.
Have you ever noticed how australian females have lesser feminine physical attributes than those from other countries ? Many have necks, hips & waist like footy players, a lot of male genes. Their mentality too is closer to males than women.
There is definitely an evolution in progress with australian females & its not a positive one.

‘morning Wally B,

Women are more aggressive because they have to put up with inferior males.

<OTTAWA - Women are just as violent to their spouses as men, and women are almost three <times more likely to initiate violence in a relationship, according to a new Canadian study <that deals a blow to the image of the male as the traditional domestic aggressor.

<Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the study, however, is the source of the data -- a <1987 survey of 705 Alberta men and women that reported how often males hit their <spouses.

<Although the original researchers asked women the same questions as men, their answers <were never published until now.

Erin Pizzey wrote a discussion paper "Working with violent women" where she mention the 'family terrorist'.

And here is a link to a woman admitting to being a family terrorist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2671590/Confessions-intimate-terrorist-Its-buzzword-bullying-husbands-researchers-say-WOMEN-worst-offenders-Here-one-scary-wife-admits-all.html

Wolly B, something tells me that the women around you would feel the need to be more aggressive....verbally anyway...

In any case, you will get plenty of support for your stance on this site.
You are just as bad as the women who blame all men for DV, because you blame all women.

Ouch! Susie

Making personal attacks, is that not controlling behaviour?

Susie, just where did Wolly do that?

Right is right and individual, sad posts. Two aspects that bother me.
- First the sense that women do suffer with self image issues to a far greater degree than men. My imoression is that too much of that is driven by womens magazines and competiveness with other women andnsome by dispariging comments from some men. I saw a very couragous video recent from a woman trying to raise fund to produce a video on body image. A link and article at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/14/embrace-taryn-brumfitt_n_5318178.html
- Amongst the women I know none look male and most are well over 30. They come in a variety of shapes and sizes as do they males I know in that age bracket. Many struggle with weight in places they don't want it, getting older, the pressures and constraints of parenting and careers will do that. I'm noticing that as I get older my appreciation for looks that are not just about youth has grown. The age bracket of beauty that I can appreciate has grown with me as well as the role of personality and character in shaping my impression of beauty amongst those I know.

Attacks on womens appearance and particularly the things about appearance that are the natural results of aging as our bodies do, not of abuse are damaging to people who for whatever reason carry unreasonable expectations about how they should look and sometimes very harmful self image. We can't do much about the material in womens magazines that feeds that stuff but adding to it is not something to be proud of.

R0bert

Right is right, Individual,
“Mehr Moral, aber weniger Moralin!” (More Morality, Less Moralism!)
Joseph Goebbels 27/01/1934:
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb60.htm
"Save us from these hypocritical creatures who have no genuine strong conception of life, and who in reality preach no honest morality. They generally are life’s losers, protesting life itself. Eternal life and its laws will hardly make way for them; at most, they will hide behind a screen of contemptible hypocrisy and dishonest prudery."They think that the German woman should not go out alone, she should not sit alone in a restaurant, she should not go out with a boy or even an S.A. man without a chaperone for a Sunday afternoon excursion, she should not smoke, she should not drink, she should not wash up and make herself pretty, in short she should do everything to keep the evil interest of a man away from her. That is, at least, is how these midget moralists think a German woman should behave. And woe to the poor womanly creature who has the misfortune to transgress against one of these laws. Of course, no German woman will have bobbed hair, since only Jewesses and other contemptible creatures do that!

Have these moral trumpeters any idea how they slander and demoralize millions of German women with their preaching, women who bravely and honestly do their duty in life and on the job, who are good comrades to their men and sacrificing mothers for their children?"

The Labor Party obviously thinks it can win some cheap votes through pretending that domestic violence only affects women and children, and in heterosexual relationships of course. Check the tone of this,

<Labor promises royal commission into family violence if elected

Australia will get its first royal commission into family violence if Labor wins this year's state election.

With figures showing domestic violence homicides soaring in Victoria, Opposition Leader Daniel Andrews announced on Saturday that the sweeping review would begin early next year - "and nothing will be off limits".

Mr Andrews said the royal commission would examine family violence "from the ground up", looking into the criminal system, the courts, health services, housing, education, alcohol and drugs.

A panel of survivors and support providers will advise and assist the commission, which will report to parliament by the end of 2015.

In a strongly-worded speech at Labor's state conference, Mr Andrews admitted the family violence system was broken, and "we won't fix it until we admit it".

"It doesn't protect the vulnerable, it doesn't punish the guilty, it doesn't save enough lives," he said.

"We expect victims to make a deeply personal and terrifying leap; to come forward and seek protection, but we're not doing our bit. We're not there to catch them when they make that leap. Instead, those seeking help fall into endless waiting lists."

Labor's push to tackle the crisis comes amid a massive increase in domestic violence homicides, with 13 people arrested in 2011-12 , rising to 45 last financial year.

It also comes after a series of high profile cases, including the brutal slaying of 33-year-old mother Fiona Warzywoda allegedly by her de-facto partner last month, and the death of 11-year-old Luke Batty at a junior cricket club in Melbourne's south-east at the hands of his father.

The Napthine Government sought to address the issue in its budget two weeks ago, allocating $4.5 million to beef up a successful pilot program that brings together family violence services, police, corrections and courts to keep women and children safe.>
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/labor-promises-royal-commission-into-family-violence-if-elected-20140517-38gb6.html

Maybe Labor ought consider representing all Australians?

RObert, you think I am being too tough on WollyB?

"So in reality if we really want to end DV, a two pronged attack is needed, the first is too get women to stop using their controlling behaviour, and for men to learn effective tactics to deal with their controlling behaviour."

You could read this silly statement two ways I imagine, but the way I read it was that DV is caused by women who have 'controlling behaviour', and all their men have to do is learn how to 'deal with' this behaviour.
A bit simplistic don't you think?
But definitely anti-women.....

Susie, so much potential for readings things in different ways. I'd picked up on the "all men" and "all women" aspects of your earlier post. That last post puts a different slant on it.

I read that part of Wollie's post as refering to the DV thats not currently being addressed rather than all DV.

Its a messy area in language, defensiveness, stereotypes etc. I doubt that there is any way we can stop all DV, as a society we can work towards getting the message out that violent (and controlling behaviours ) are not acceptable regardless of the gender of the people involved.

For my part and I hope from others posting in a similar vein is that we need to address all DV without the ideological blinkers that currently hinder that. That while society turns a blind eye to any contribution to DV by women the overall rates will be far harder to get down significantly. That blaming the victim is used as an argument killer selectively to avoid addressing some of the issues that contribute to womens exposure to DV rather than as a genuine means to protect the innocent.

R0bert

Attacks on womens appearance and particularly the things about appearance that are the natural results of aging
Robert,
I think you're referring to my post there. Since when is stating evolution an attack ? Get things straight please.
Women aren't violent at all as neither are men. Females on the other hand are very violent & more so than males.
Only yesterday they showed a rather handsome looking criminal who made the world's headlines with a mugshot. Three Australian TV commentators, one woman & two females confirmed on National Tv what some posters here are saying. The women admitted & rightly so that the crim was a "hot" looking young man but because of his criminal character she could not take to him., whereas the two females could barely control their primeveal instinct/urges, criminal character notwitstanding. Can you see where the problem is ?

Female aggression - Reaction to women abusing men in public, actual footage, and the passing cop who admitted the double standards that caused authorities to differ in the treatment of violence by women as opposed to violence where a male was the offending party,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

#ViolenceIsViolence: Domestic abuse advert Mankind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PgH86OyEM

VICTIMHOod..GIVES SOME SOLACE
IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT YOUR GETTING LEAVE..go
IF YOU STAY/YOUR SETTING THE OTHER UP TO FAIL/sure/they go/to jail
BUT THE PROBLEM/WASNT THEM[YOU STAYED]...when we all said go.

only a fool takes oTHER INSANITY..as random/or due
I COULDNT GVE A STUFF WHO IS more*..aggressive[all aggressION IS WRONG/FULLSTOP]staying after the first punche/earned more/your wish came true

IF YOU GOT-BEAT/and didnt leave
YOU SETtING IT UP..FOR SOME SICK mutual-Dependency
[and these dependencies\are spiritual/go way beyond any grAVE

wow/self fullfilling prophecy
THAT NOT REJECTED OUTSRIGHT/ISNT UNEXPECTED.]

IF SOME ONE hits you..leave..
[TAKING WITH YOU/ONLY THOSE DEPENDONG ON YOU][READ KIDS]..NOT POSSESIONS LEAVE THAT FOR THE COPS,..
but usually its a game they ARE PLAYING..WITH EACH OTHER
[OR JUST PLAYING..YOU...THE THING IS..STAY OUT OF THESE THINGS/these relationships get very messy/AND CANT BE FIXED...TILL the sick people stop loving their sickness...and leave..go just go/you dont want tHE bitter-FRUITS OF THESE SEEDS YOU both./.SOW

bullys and victims/sense each other
your fear is their fuel/your cries-their joy

you think..demonic thoughts
demons come and feed on them..
ITS NOT ROcKET SCIEnce/

SOME LOVE VICTIMHOOD..as it fills their empty life/PLUSputs the blame..on you..not ME..IM completly blamless=red flag..it takes two/AND WORSE WE DONT KNOW WHO..IS PLAYING WHO...or bth of you/playing us.

to/get involved/the sukker is you
they both are jUST PLAYING..YOU...setting you up

GO OR STAY/not my concern/either way/
ignoring the symptom/makes the sickness go away..from you.
things cant get better/till the URGES YOU RAISE IN EACH OTHER GO AWAY,..

BUT I LOVE HIM/HER..NO..Its the bLeatinG/helplessness
YOU LOVE/..YOU just found a way/that takes the blame..off you

poor you
poor u

oh you poor thing
oh no/the beast
its you/now you know..fix it..or go.

have a nice life/im over trying to help
victims/loving their victimhoods,.YOU GET AS YOU INPIRE TO GIVE
THE FIRST TIME YOU STAYED/THEY REALISED YOUR A PLAYER/SO THEY PLAY YOU.YOU PLAY THEM..AND IN THE END..POOR YOU..

BUT..YES..YOU WIN/
that you begged...FOR/BY STAYING

POOR YOU...TWODELOO

The more you think about it, the attitude & actual rather than fictional behavior of women, the more you can see that the attitude to & restrictions placed upon women by the more strict Muslim societies is the only way for a civil society to go.

I call for a tripling of Muslim immigration, the sooner to get this country to a fit place for men to live.

RObert, I agree with your post, but I don't think anyone has ever said women don't contribute to violence?

We have one case going on here in WA right now where it is alleged that a woman killed her husband.

I just hate to see whole threads discussing the evils of women in general.
This one, like the racist ones elsewhere, just go no where...

Broadly speaking - people have different views on issues
depending on their life experiences, their age,
their values, personality, education, and the social
circles in which they mix. However, most people will
agree that domestic violence is a serious problem
and needs less stereotyping, less labelling, and more
objectivity, in trying to find solutions to the
problem.

We've covered this topic so many times on this forum.
The tender, romantic; and passionate intimacies of
men and women are among the supreme human emotional
experiences. Perhaps no other subject is so
universally celebrated and even idelaises in literature,
art, and daily life.

But the relationships of the sexes can have a darker side,
one that involves extremes of exploitation and
violence.

The effects of domestic violence can be devastating for
the victim, involving physical and emotional damage
and the disruption of personal, social, familial and
sexual life.

Surveys suggest that each year there are couples who go through
a violent episode in which one partner tries to cause
the other - serious pain or injury. Wives assault their
husbands as often as husbands assault their wives, and
spouses are equally likely to kill each other.

One source of this violence may lie in the dynamics of the
family as an intimate environment: close relationships are
likely to involve more conflict than less intimate ones,
since there are more occasions for tension to arise and
more likelihood that deep emotions will be provoked.

Another source may be outside the family, for violence
is frequently a response to frustration. If a person
affected cannot strike back at the source of the problem
- the aggression may be readily re-directed at family
members.

We need to make it quite clear
that violence between either male or female
is equally - not acceptable in our society. Its
a sad state of affairs in which the extent of violence
in groups whose members are supposed to love and care for
one another succumb to this sort of behaviour - which
suggests that the modern family may sometimes be under
greater pressures than it can easily bear.

Foxy,
It could also be the case that since about 1970 the entertainment industry has portrayed men as either morons who are a liability to women or monsters who are a threat to them. The output of Hollwood in particular is not art, it's activism.
When I watch a program like "House Husbands" I feel like I want to beat the male characters unconscious, throw their wife over my shoulder and ride off into the sunset simply because they're all such pathetic losers. If such men exist in the real world then it's no wonder women are contemptuous of them and violent toward them, could you imagine Fred McMurray's Steve Douglas putting up with Sofia Vergara's character Gloria from Modern Family for more than five minutes?
Could you imagine Sofia Vergara's Gloria bashing and then murdering Ty Burrell's character Phil Dunphy if they were in a relationship?
We've had forty years of negative male stereotyping in the media, it's said that women are negatively affected by the media in many other ways so it stands to reason that if they are exposed only to negative images of men that they would develop negative opinions about them and be hostile toward men in general.

"just hate to see whole threads discussing the evils of women in general."

I'm with you on that. From my take on Wollie's previous posts I don't have any reason to think that was the intent. There have been plenty of posts over the years pushing the line that DV is a male problem, that it's overwhelmingly done by men etc. Outright antagonism to attempts to have the anti-DV violence message extended to both genders. I know I can't speak with authority for other men posting on this site (or else where) but mynown stance and my take on the point most others have been trying to make is that DV is a human problem, not just a male problem. That to reduce it further we need to address all DV, not just the part that fits marxist feminist views of power dispersal.

I'm hoping Hasbeen was just stiring, given his views in Muslim immigration I think thats a safe bet.

Foxy, well said. The point about killing each other in equal numbers conflicts with my current understanding but I've not looked at recent research into that. Whatever the proportions though I think there are some things in the legal system that should change to reduce the push factors involved for people going to that extreme. It won't stop it all but a simplistic one size fits view based on control and power does not help understand much at all.

R0bert

Well said Foxy, and I agree with much of what you say RObert.
I don't think Marx has any influence on the modern women of today though.
Communism wasn't good for either gender in any way I reckon.

Certainly, women today seem more generally aggressive than they were back in the 'good ol' days' when they stayed home and did what they were told.
Both genders are more aggressive now too I think, especially with the drugs now available, more alcohol fueled violence, more mental health problems, and with people now being housed so much closer together in city areas.

I agree there should be a general DV plan that addresses aggression in the home environment, because at the end of the day, children get hurt just as much from any adult who hurts them.

Jay of Melbourne, "The output of Hollwood in particular is not art, it's activism.
..
We've had forty years of negative male stereotyping in the media, it's said that women are negatively affected by the media in many other ways so it stands to reason that if they are exposed only to negative images of men that they would develop negative opinions about them and be hostile toward men in general>

Precisely and it is time the effect of the negative stereotyping on young boys and youth is taken seriously.

There are no genuine, practical suggestions here for change and from some, absolutely no urgency at all. The general attitude is one of, "Never you mind, just put it on the back burner and wait your turn, if it comes around to you one day". One gets the distinct impression that the 'Jills' are saying "I'm all right, Jack". Whereas in the gender reversed case it is all urgency, driven by self-righteous horror. Activism for one gender is OK and absolutely necessary and any radical excesses, always excusable somehow.

I posted a link earlier where Labor sees DV as affecting women and girls, exclusively. It is not so long ago that a PM, Julia Whatshername, waged a gender war on men. Obviously the radical feminist dinosaurs live on and are given oxygen in Labor. If they are so unethical and unprincipled as to wage gender war (and Class war) why the hell would any thinking, responsible citizen vote for them? For the future of boys and girls too we should always put Labor at the very bottom of the voting card.

Suse,
I wouldn't say that the tiny percentage of men and women who are violent are more or less so now than in past generations.
I can't seem to find an agreed upon figure for the incidence of violent behaviour in Australian society, it appears to be about 1 in 28 people have those tendencies, but who really knows?
There's evidence that women are more violent in the home than men, but there's evidence that even very violent men are not given to physical retaliation as a first course of action, so men's lack of retaliation could appear to skew the figures but it doesn't mean they're not winding their partners up or being verbally abusive.
The female partner in the married couple I mention in other threads is one of the most violent people I know,she's assaulted her mother and other people in the past and has a hair trigger temper. Her estranged husband is a thug and extremely abusive and cruel in the way he speaks to her but as far as we know he's never hit her or the children and his menacing persona seems to keep her violent impulses in check.
I really don't know if women are "more violent", about all we can say with certainty that in that small, dysfunctional set of people in the community violence is endemic and self perpetuating.

its a thing i just noted/repETITion/ie repeating patterns/build anger.

think of it as you will/but the 50th time you say /do the same thing
[without..realy wanting to do it]..is graduated [IM presuming/by direct linkage]..repeat//repeat repeat/is great if its your choice

but during on of them /hated
soul draining/repeats..things snap..
and if that brings some advantage..it gets repeat/repeat/becomes habituated/becomes normalised/even expected/stockholms syndrome/but i love her/you caNT HIT GIRLS..it can get messy/but one punch..im g0ne

see ya

You are right there OUG.
One punch and I would be gone too....right after I baked a cake and popped in several crushed laxatives in the batter first!

@Suseonline, Saturday, 28 June 2014 8:28:43 PM

Is that what you would really do? Dump everything leave the kids and decamp? Or are you encouraging dads to walk, to be later labelled 'dead beat dads'?

What would you say the most appropriate and effective response would be for a woman? Then give your honest opinion on how a similar response might work for a man and dad.

Some frank, practical comments wouldn't go astray at this point. That is if you are genuinely concerned and not simply stirring the pot (of batter, it appears).

SURFER-BUOY/QUOTE..<<..What would you say the most appropriate and effective response would be for a woman?>>

the first punch/is often made in anger or pain/when words fail[and deafness sets in]..one cannot reason with a beast/drunk stoned horny or insane/you get the hell out of there

<<..Then give your honest opinion..online/on his facebook/tweeters page/letting his friends 'KNOW'

NEXT I WOULD GO TO THE LOCAL BIKEIE HUT/OR TATTOIST NEST
THEN...HAVE A GUESS..[but its just bravado..by grown up woman/i have never been hit/but yet again what goes THROUGH MY MIND/ONE HIT/THATS IT.

<<..on how a similar response might work for a man and dad.>>
WELL NICE GIRLS DONT GO TO TATOO PARLOURS/SO THEY NED A FORCE/YET NOT A POLICE REVENUE RAISING POLICY..]spo a woman/neds find an old faSHONED THUG..and give the lad a talking to

but rule number one=never go back
this must be clear/you betrayed my trust once
im not prepared to let that happen ever again/your just luky the kids didnt hear..cause that makes things far woprse[you passed on the generational curse

by the same token/if you got a good relationship[and the police state revenue raisers stand at ya gate/tell them to take the whole family/cause if your in a familiy.oNE BROKE/WERE ALL BROKEN[LOCK AWAY THE WHLE FAMILY GROUP.

GOVT policy/BUSTS UP MORE FAMILIES/THAN PUNCHING
but if the head is broken/the whole family clan/needs fixin.
[my visioning..sees them outcast family groups returning to those whO DO THAT SORT OF THING[SO ONE DAY GOVT CAME/PUTTHE BROKEN FAMILY ON A PLANE..

to deepest afrika/or deepest new guni/your families new home
..*WHY*,

,you failed the cIVILITY TEST/have a nice rest
those assets you had/not the proceeds of crime/will follow you/.at a LATER TIME/PROVIDING YOU MADE TREATY FOR THE TRIBES THERE/TO ALLOW YOU TO BUILD A NEW HOME..do your time serving the tribe/in time a revieuw of your progress/helps us to further decide.

out casts/ust one single punch..and your all/cast out

<<..Some frank, practical comments wouldn't go astray at this point.>>

god is generouse/but men arnt god
YET GENEROSITY..is a thing woRTH GETTING to.
if you dont fit in..here..its clear,./the angels/got].gods instructions

the/rest=up/to-u.

uog,
Why go through so much crap when a couple of years of National Service for every permanent resident of this country would establish the right kind of mentality for just about every situation in life.
How many times must it be said that our society is a product of our mentality ? After two years of NS 99% of males/females would become reasonable men/women. That alone will improve our society to no end.
Get our priorities right has to be the main. Have News & Current Affairs programmes in the right order not some brain-dead front row lump of muscle & meat's twisted ankle getting 5 minutes of Air time whilst the reports of cowardly attacks on old people are over before one can blink.
Magistrates should not be allowed to become magistrates unless they've spent at least two years in the Police. Criminal defence Lawyers should require to undergo psychological assessment every 6 months & in really off cases they should be charged with complicity.
Females are very prominent in situations of crime/violence yet they hardly ever get charged. I have had a personal experience where the head of a youth break-in & enter gang was a very nasty & wharped 40+ year old. She only got taken after she went a step too far & seriously assaulted a man. It took Police to over two years to convince the dumb-ar$ed magistrates that she needed to be stopped. A man had to suffer serious injury before the limp-wristed weirdos did the right thing.

Onthebeach "Some frank, practical comments wouldn't go astray at this point. That is if you are genuinely concerned and not simply stirring the pot (of batter, it appears)."

Lol! A small joke from you :)
I think we both know that anything I say to you on this subject is never going to be the right comment is it?
I would just say that aggression in all it's forms is a human condition and I doubt anything we say here is going to change that.

Dear Suse,

Experts seem to agree that
it is time we transformed
the way we handle domestic violence and abuse.
Hardworking charities provide refuge and
vital support for victims but their funding is becoming
increasingly restricted. As a result, their resources
can only be accessed by a limited number of people.

This issue is certainly a complex on - made all the
more difficult when victims are reluctant to leave
abusive relationship because of the fear for their
safety, of being homeless, or destitute, or risking
losing their children. The government needs to step up
its responsibility for supporting victims, and our
police and criminal justice systems need to also take
a more pro-active approach

Suseonline and Foxy,

You duck and weave, but if it was women not men you would have plenty of firm and dare I say non-negotiable demands, such as training of police to recognise the existence of DV affecting men and boys. You would be asking for special support units and doubting the ability of public prosecutors and courts to give DV victims an adequate hearing.

Now I have posted a couple of videos above that all of us including you yourselves should agree with that surface the prevailing social attitudes to men who are beaten and otherwise cruelly dealt with by the women in the lives, but all you can do is simper that everyone can be affected by DV and continually divert away from any real examination of the factors involved and what should be done.

'Pussy-whipped' men are seen as funny, less than men and should grow a pair, eh what? There are many men I have met and grandparents too who are brutalised every day of their lives by vicious, manipulative, bullying women, especially where Parental Alienation (PAS) is the weapon of choice.

The worst thing though is practically all of us are not sensitive at all to the dreadful, impoverished, cruel lives lived by some men (and grandparents). In all honesty now, how many of us exhibit the same shabby attitudes to beaten men as those people in the videos linked before? Here again,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

#ViolenceIsViolence: Domestic abuse advert Mankind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PgH86OyEM

Why does White Ribbon Day exclude the other 50% of the victims and the other 50% of offenders? Just who benefits from that?

Onthebeach, I'm tying to work out what you want from Suseonline and Foxy here.

There is nothing in the stats I've seen to suggest women are generally more agressive. The rates for male initiated DV appear to have dropped substantially from similar numbers when they started collecting numbers. Some evidence that women are more inclined to use violence in the higher levels more often than men but that to me looks like an offset for the differences in physical strength.

Relying on stereotypes because I've not seen much sign of research in that area I suspect that across the emotional/verbal abuse space women would be over but by the same token men are overrepresented in the sexual violence stakes. The numbers game is a sideshow except as a counter for those trying to portray abusive behaviours a gender issue.

I may be missing something in this but you seem to be picking at them without good cause. If thats the case then what do you hope to achieve?
The most likely outcome seems to be to divert the discussion from the level of agreement we do have here.

R0bert

Dear RObert,

Thank You.

The person (for want of a better word)
in question has a history on this forum.
Belly left because of him. Others have tried to point
things out to him concerning his abusive behaviour
in the past. Talking to a tree would produce better
results than talking to him. Now we simply tent to
totally ignore him. He needs to take his own
advice - (given so freely to Suse in an article thread
on this very subject - Sunday 15th June 2014.(page 14).

He advised Suse as follows - and I quote:

"It is never to late for you to come to discover a
reading and comprehension disability."

"As a suggestion you could re-read a passage several times,
orally if you like. Ask yourself questions about what you think
the writer is saying and make a summary of the writer's
main points. "

"Try to focus on the writers meaning not
some pre-formed opinions going on in your head. Take into
account the whole and not just a word or sentence you might
have taken a fancy to. What do you imagine the writer said?
Some feed back might also help you."

"Unless you are stirring of course and that would be a
complete waste of your time."

Is is any wonder then, that as a rule, neither Suse, not myself,
usually - don't either read or respond, or take seriously,
the person in question. His troll-like behaviour doesn't
warrant any attention. And I'm only responding this time -
because you got involved.

Agreed Foxy, and also thanks to RObert.

I am trying to ignore that other one too, but I doubt I have as much wise restraint as Foxy!

In any case, one community action I think is a good idea is that after an incidence of domestic violence is reported to police and they go to investigate, then they should have powers to remove the violent person from the home and take them to a 'safe house' until court proceedings happen, rather than removing the spouse and kids from their home.

While the legal issues are being dealt with, the violent offender would remain living apart from their family members, and be expected to go through drug and/or alcohol rehab, and anger management therapy before they are allowed home (if the family wants to be reunited that is).

Also, the rest of the family needs counselling too, on how better to manage conflict among family members, and to teach them more assertive behaviour of what they will, or will not, accept from each other.

The current laws re VRO's are not strong enough.
If an order is taken out against someone (after it is proved who is guilty of violence), then the police should be able to immediately take the perpetrator to jail if a breach is made.
I like the idea of a tracking device placed on DV re-offenders if the courts see fit to let them out of jail, at least until they are deemed safe again.

RObert,

No-one else is responsible for how you feel and I am certainly not going to be accountable for how you feel either. For the record I believe you are 'White Knighting'.

My post was perfectly reasonable and here again is the nub of it,

".. if it was women not men you would have plenty of firm and dare I say non-negotiable demands, such as training of police to recognise the existence of DV affecting men and boys. You would be asking for special support units and doubting the ability of public prosecutors and courts to give DV victims an adequate hearing."

Now what about some discussion about the inconvenient truth of those videos - the double standard that exists concerning male as opposed to female victims of DV?

Dear RObert,

Suse and I have both stated and made it quite clear
in our discussions on this forum
that domestic violence and abuse needs to be
stopped.

As does the stereotyping.
The system needs to treat violent couples as
violent couples instead of shoehorning them
into the "man" as perpetrator and "women"
as victim. This has been made quite clear in
our posts.

It is unfortunate as I've stated earlier
that this issue has
contributed to a highly politicised and
adversarial context in which men and women's
experiences of violence are placed in competition
with each other because in fact, as again -
already stated
earlier, the development of effective responses
will be based on a better understanding of the complexities
of each form of victimisation.

It definitely is time that we transform the way we handle
domestic violence and abuse - both at the government
levels and within - our police and criminal justice systems.
We need to hold abusers accountable for
their actions and provide the necessary support for the victims.
Male and female

<Domestic violence against men has doubled since 2005 - ABS
DateTuesday, December 17, 2013

The number of men who report experiencing domestic violence from their current partner has almost doubled since 2005, according to a new survey released last week by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS)...

“Growing community awareness of the issue generated by campaigns such as One in Three means men are more willing to come forward and disclose their experience of domestic abuse. Men face a great deal of shame when admitting being abused by their wives or partners. Knowing that other men are in a similar situation can really help in lessening the embarrassment for many guys.”

The 2012 Survey found that men were less than half as likely as women to have told anybody about partner violence, to have sought advice or support, or to have contacted the police.

“It wouldn’t surprise me if the level of domestic violence against men is also on the rise due to the one-sided approach to the issue taken by successive governments and NGOs such as Amnesty International and the White Ribbon Foundation. Saying ‘no’ to violence against women is important, but by not saying that violence against men is equally wrong, we send the message to some women that it’s OK to abuse their partners,” said Mr Andresen.

The ABS Personal Safety Survey 2012 found that:

at least one in three victims of current partner violence, emotional abuse and stalking during the last 12 months were male
around one in three victims of physical violence by a boyfriend/girlfriend or date since the age of 15 were male
almost one in three victims of sexual assault during the last 12 months were male
more than one in three victims of physical and/or sexual abuse before the age of 15 were male.>

http://www.oneinthree.com.au/news/2013/12/17/domestic-violence-against-men-has-doubled-since-2005-abs.html

onthebeach, I'm not trying to make you responsible for how I feel but I do take a strong interest when you are taking an approach that looks like an attempt to derail the level of agreement that is happening here. If you think I'm white knighting you might have a look back through some of Suseonline and my exchanges on this topic in the past, neither of us is reluctant to disagree with the other where it seems relevant.

The existing stereotypes are a significant issue especially when talk turns to increased or stronger official response to DV. I've made the point before that far to many of the professionals in the fields that should be able to help (or who would be the first responders) have been thorougly indoctrinated in the gendered view of DV.

There needs to be some serious work done in getting police, relationship counsellors etc past the gender stereotypes to deal with this. Likewise some work put into support for men if they are the one suddenly dealing with single parenting, employer expectations are in my view often quite different when it comes to flexibility for men to support families. I think the latter is improving but it has a way to go.

I also think there needs to be changes to reduce the flow on benefits to the accuser from a DV accusation. Isolating one party from the kids and home for a period based on accusations that are not later substantiated should not set patterns of care or otherwise result in a better outcome for the accuser.

I don't know how we can deal with it in a credible manner but I'm also aware of how hard it is for the law to deal with the non-physical aspects of abuse. The person who pushes and pushes until the other retaliates then cries victim (and gets the kids, house, income suppliment etc).

Agreement that DV is a human problem is a big start, it takes a while to understand the flow on consequences of that.

R0bert

No-one else is responsible for how you feel
onthebeach,
that is one of those lines akin to utter ignorance & totall stupidity. Like the saying Life is what you make it.
is it any wonder we have so many relationship problems with stone-age mentality like that ?
Everything we do or achive is governed by the influence of the people on us & around us.
I'm dead certain that I would be a totally different person if I hadn't so much experience with thieving Australians, conniving Australians & to an even greater degree with utterly incompetent Australians. Now we have entered the age of dumbcrap Australians who are selling off their homes to buy nicer furniture. We are at the beginning of a new era in Australia where females & males are dictating to decent women & men & forcing their idiotic mentality on them. That 6'5" lump of utter uselessness & expensive incompetence in 1972 is the cause of this mayhem of female aggression. Yes, it was that Goaf who provided the stepping stone for feminism, queers & racism. Now look how we carry on because of it.

RObert,

There is overwhelming evidence that men are also victims of DV. The definition of DV that is applied to women and to heterosexual relationships should also be applied to men, and to men and women in non-heterosexual relationships.

I don't know if you imagine that you have managed to win some change in the core beliefs held. Somehow I think not where there is any reluctance to treat male victims the same and with similar priority. For example, why should male victims have to wait for more research to be conducted, and presumably by the same feminist researchers who couldn't find any originally, or at least didn't think that violence directed at males was worthy of being included in questionnaires?

Doesn't Australian law apply to everyone? Violence is violence.

It is very shabby of Labor to chase cheap votes by limiting DV to women and children.

individual,

What I said was plain enough, and to repeat it, I am not a suitable target for emotional blackmail or guilt traps. To be blunt, your monkey, your back, not mine. If you want to take it out of context and generalise so be it.

THESE CONVERSATIONS CANT HAPPEN/FOR MANY REASONS/but i simplify it to pulling in ya gut/as ya approach a nice shiela...its all about perceptions/if its wort it/we try harder/if its not worth it we resent/resentment grows..till its all your fault..not mine.

i have gone through hell/for many years
but its my reality/im the only one that can fix it...me alone
anything diFFERENT/from me willing to change my circumstance..is bound to fail[i will make it fal/even if it kills me]

but im ok..really..i didnt just reject the same sex/but all of em
peoples lives are best kept at a distance/i prefer these FOOTPRINTS IN WORD THEY LEAVE BEhind..of course if i loved better i could be more kind..but kindness and hell/that just dont jell..we are in hell because we rejected the oppertuinity to make our relationship/heaven.y[i have a picture of it/me only concened for you/obsessed really/and me absolutly besotted with you[when that dont happy mosT OF US LEAVE/but othERS are so upset/they only know to hit back

hang-on..hit back?
yes hit ..BACK*..figure it out.
something in their mind got hurt bad/so they have flight..[or flight\FIGHT..GET IT RIGHT.

FOR MOST OF US..ITS NOT YOU..ITS ME
but for too many with nuthin else..its you/im building my unreal expectations..upon you/i see the you im going to make you into/i wil change you/my way..if you dont like it/run..

soME TIMES THE SMAKE/ONLY INDICATES THE DIRECTION TO RUN FROM
some times/johan..;yes oFTEN they force themselves to stay

i think its called enabling,,
bling/with\zing/,,noPE MATE..NUTHING

NOTHINNG..i will show you nuthin..

splat.
[ok thats that..move on..nuthin to see hear*

To put it blunt, your monkey, your back, not mine.
onthebeach,
Well, the old Australian mentality of stuff you Jack I'm alright is alive & well. No wonder the middle easterners love it here.

individual,

We are at skew lines in our discussion.

With respect, being FOG* resistant (as in fear, obligation and guilt, Google it) is a very different kettle of fish to what you are trying to extend it to.

[*I hasten to add that RObert has already said that emotional blackmail wasn't his intent anyhow. It is quite commonly wielded as a weapon by some OLO posters though]

For what it is worth, I happen to agree with you (if I am reading you right) that the world view, core beliefs and traditions some of the cultures imported and fostered through Malcolm Fraser's ill-conceived 'multiculturalism' are corrosive to values of our culture that we have traditionally held dear, an example being concern for community.

Some of my Asian (Chinese) work colleagues have observed that whereas they have far greater sense of family kinship and have far stronger obligations to their extended family than Aussies, they do not share the Australian's concern and sense of duty to help others in the community. In fact they regard the age pension, to take an instance, as Aussies giving something away that they don't want, being wasteful and profligate they (the Asians) reckon, and being informed by their own culture, find it difficult to appreciate and be thankful for such 'generosity'.

The diversity-we-have-to-have is changing overall community attitudes to the government handouts that many Australians would like continued to provide for them, without obligation on their part - the European inheritance (tradition) if you like. The future will be interesting. In some respects the future is already here.

Some might note some questionable traditions affecting women that have been imported, but the feminists are apparently not concerned.

onthebeach,
cheers for that & my appologies for failing to make it clear that my remarks weren't aimed at you personally.
To put paid to this I can only say, yes women are more aggressive. They're not physically as violent in general but they cause the greater percentage of male violence. They're extremely manipulative & selfish. It's not so hard for a father to admit his son was a deadbeat but a mother ? No way.

individual,

I am sure it was my mistake. Thank you for taking it so kindly.

Individual "To put paid to this I can only say, yes women are more aggressive. They're not physically as violent in general but they cause the greater percentage of male violence. They're extremely manipulative & selfish. "

Really?
Where are your stats on those statements?
Or was it just the (really narrow) world according to Individual who made this statement up?
Summing up your world, it appears to me that the only people you must really relate to out there in the real world (and here on this site) are white/Caucasian , gun-loving, non-intellectual, old -fashioned, middle aged Australian men.

Been away in NZ for over a week visiting the partners Whanau (family) only about 500 this time a small gathering, doing some other things as well, like attending a Aussie gay marriage (legal in NZ).
I find this an interesting topic. are "Women more aggressive" than they once were, I'll have to go along with Suse with <<Where are your stats on those statements?>>. Since there is no base to measure how aggressive women were in the past you can't compare it with today, could be more or less, could be the same. Opinion is entirely a different matter, in my opinion, in general women are more assertive than they once were, that in itself doesn't make them more aggressive, although I would say its unlikely to make women less aggressive. There are several factors that could make women more aggressive, not the least a general increase in violence in society. I would also suspect that with women becoming empowered through financial independence, education etc, and better support mechanisms in society, more women would retaliate when confronted with certain situations, where in the past they may well have "copped it sweet", as many women did in the past, because they had no other option other than to do so.

Paul1405

If I recall correctly when women were being transported out on the convict ships to this country, the captains found them (the women) to be much more difficult to manage than the male convicts.

However, statistical data is only as good as the data that is collected. The way the data is collected and correlated and analysed is open to much interpretation and misinformation.

So relying on 'the holy grail of data' can be extremely misleading.

If we take DV or IPV for example, a vast majority of the research is of the type where women are the victims and men are the perpetrators.

If we look at the current research article
http://news.optuszoo.com.au/2014/06/27/women-more-aggressive-to-partners/

It says women are more aggressive to partners and are shown to use a range of 'controlling behaviours'.

The typical stance of a number of posters is too purely focus on physical violence and injury. Yet aggression covers a whole range of types of behaviours, such as passive-aggressive, the silent treatment, through to putdowns, emotional manipulation, verbal abuse, shouting.

Generally speaking in this type of research men and women are never asked the same questions, this already leads to a research bias.

http://www.franks.org/fr01060.htm

A survey conducted in 1987, 67% of women "questioned" (this does not include all women in the world) admitted to initiating conflict.(705 alberta men and women took part in this survey)

Erin Pizzey wrote, when she opened her refuge in 1971, that of the first 100 women, 60 were as violent, if not more violent than the men that they had left.

<On the surface, it often looks as though the dominant partner holds
<the power. Actually, in my experience this is very rarely true. Usually the adrenalin <personality has
<the drive, the creativity and the energy which seems to be a by-product of violence and <chaos.

Erin Pizzey Prone to Violence.

Now before I get accused again of misogyny.

There is a news story how a mentally ill man killed his parents. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-07/son-michael-phillips-accused-of-murdering-parents-encounter-bay/5371150

My heart bleeds for Luke Battys mother, it is such a sad and tragic story.

<Following a beating on November 28, 2011, the girl asked her mother for drugs to relieve <the pain, but the woman said there was none in the house.
<The girl replied: "Well could you at least say a prayer for me?"
<She died later that day.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/dead-girl-was-invisible-to-state-system-coroner-20140627-zsoyp.html#ixzz36B1FPsZA

I still struggle to understand how a human being could possibly do this to another.

I suspect any stats out their are pretty suspect. Millions poured into women's studies of how oppressive men are. Imagine trying to get a pass from the feminist professors or journalist by producing data that contradicts the dogmas. The 'progressives'argued that the increase in violence and porn which saturates our screens have no affect on people. How could they then possibly come up with any truthful conclusions? Meanwhile sexual and physcial abuse on men, woman and children are in epidemic proportions in indigeneous communities. The 'progessives ' ignore this or blame it on the white male. The more 'educated'we become the less solutions we seem to have. More programs, more education, more money is the mantra. History shows the opposite.

Wolly B. firstly I deplore violence by any person male or female. I tend to think that the stats on this may be a little askew as it could be easier to identify the perpetrators of violence, than it is to identify the unassuming victims of violence. Good point that there is other forms of violence, other than the physical.
Runner as a "progressive" I see your post as nonsensical, I for one do not support unrestricted violence being shown as entertainment. In fact the most violence I have come across in my life is the real institutionalised violence of the Catholic Church, it continues to this day, despite thie best efforts to get out of it! Yes, <<sexual and physcial abuse on men, woman and children are in epidemic proportions in indigeneous communities.>> its not being ignored by progressives, it is a major problem that has to be addressed.

What is interesting is that I mostly quote female authors on DV or IPV, such as Erin Pizzey, Wendy McElroy, Eeva Sodhi, Kathy Young, Chirstina Hoff Sommers, yet I get accused of being a misogyny or have personal attacks made.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/22/are-domestic-violence-statistics-bogus

This article by Wendy McElroy makes for interesting reading.

Paul1405,

In your post on page 8 you remarked that women who have become empowered through financial independence, education etc, and better support mechanisms in society, would retaliate where in the past they may well have "copped it sweet" having no other option no other option other than doing so.

Leaving to one side any discussion on what manner of 'empowerment' or education might encourage and rationalise violence, your assessment of increased partner violence from women is likely supported by statistics.

In an earlier post there is an article and ABS stats with this link,
http://www.oneinthree.com.au/news/2013/12/17/domestic-violence-against-men-has-doubled-since-2005-abs.html

<"It wouldn’t surprise me if the level of domestic violence against men is also on the rise due to the one-sided approach to the issue taken by successive governments and NGOs such as Amnesty International and the White Ribbon Foundation. Saying ‘no’ to violence against women is important, but by not saying that violence against men is equally wrong, we send the message to some women that it’s OK to abuse their partners,” said Mr Andresen.

The ABS Personal Safety Survey 2012 found that:

at least one in three victims of current partner violence, emotional abuse and stalking during the last 12 months were male
around one in three victims of physical violence by a boyfriend/girlfriend or date since the age of 15 were male
almost one in three victims of sexual assault during the last 12 months were male
more than one in three victims of physical and/or sexual abuse before the age of 15 were male.>

It is sad but predictable that instead of recognising that 'violence is violence', Labor is chasing cheap votes with its mantra that only women and children are victims.

Suseonline & Paul1405,
Those Stats you're seeking are out there in plain sight on suburbian streets & on the footpaths in the cities, outside night clubs etc. when the wives & other kinds of female associates of both men & males are stirring so much crap that many males just snap.
Go & seek & ye shall find.
Suseonline, as for my narrow world I challenge you anytime that your world is a lot narrower than mine. What you think is the real world is nothing but an artificially complex control mechanism full of unimaginable weirdos, whereas I live in remote communities where males are men & woman are happy with that. Our women see no need whatsoever to look & dress like males so they can hate males. We still have great social functions with jokes & laughter rather than have to hide behind PC whilst poking at our iphones.
Which world do you think is more "real" ?

Individual "...I live in remote communities where males are men & woman are happy with that. Our women see no need whatsoever to look & dress like males so they can hate males."

Lol!
Are you still living in a pre 1950's timewarp Individual?
"Our" women? Don't any of 'your' women wear trousers then?
Do all women that wear trousers and shirts hate men then?
Have I ever said anywhere that I hate males?

I don't see where on this site that anyone has ever said women can't be aggressive or violent. Of course they can be, and are, violent.

If some people are upset with the white ribbon campaign, then why not go to your local pollie and say so? Ask for a more encompassing anti violence campaign.
Stop whining and carrying on and do something about it!

Stop whining and carrying on and do something about it!
Suseonline,
Well, looks like you can't see it but many here on OLO are trying to enlighten the likes of you & 1405.
I don't see where on this site that anyone has ever said it'd be an easy task but as they say never give up ! :-)

onthebeach, while I'm no fan of Labor it's worth remembering that it was the coalition under Howard who ran the completely gendered "Voilence against women" campaign. I was involved in attempts to get them to include some examples that did not fit the stereotype. They were aware of the issue but chose to ignore it.

I've not seen any signs that the current mob take the issue of stopping all violence seriously either.

You might also remember Julia's hit on single mums. Its not all as one sided as I wish it was.

Individual those sidewalk observations have let us down badly in the past. They get reinfoced by what we already believe. Its very subjective in a bunch of ways, driving gives me plenty of opportunity to observe lots of very aggressive driving and most of that is male tradies (or males driving utes with cargo nets, lots of tools and tradie like clothing to be more precise).

We are also not working from a clean slate, years of male violence and aggression being the target of various campaigns I think that male behaviour is often different from it might be in other times and places.

I don't think attempts to paint either gender as more or less of something help at all. Its diverted attention from getting to the real cause of DV for years, the focus being on gender rather than the factors that actually provide some correlation to DV.

R0bert

Well said RObert, and I think on that note I will see you all on another thread.
Cheers,
Suse.

Stop whining and carrying on and do something about it!
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 1 July 2014 2:34:16 PM

More than a few people in the past have tried.

<· Dr. Steinmetz told me that she received verbal threats and anonymous phone calls from
<radical women's groups threatening to harm her children. And when the ACLU invited her to
<speak on domestic violence, it received a bomb threat.

<· All three of us received death threats. Bomb threats were phoned in to conference centers
<and buildings where we were scheduled to present....

<· When we reported the results of the Second National Family Violence Survey the personal
<attacks continued and the professional critiques simply ignored methodological revisions to
<the measurement instrument. This round of personal attacks was much more insidious-in
<particular, it was alleged that Murray had abused his wife.
(Straus, Gelles and Steinmetz)

<· " Shortly thereafter, McNeely received letters from a Pennsylvania women's organization
<threatening to use its influence in Washington to pull his research funding. He also suffered <many other "character assassinations."

<· Any legislator, researcher or public figure of any kind who attempted to object to this level
<of government control of private lives, who suggested seeking solutions other than divorce
<or that men and women were equally responsible for the problem was labeled a misogynist,
<an abuser, or worse. Many careers have been ruined by shelter advocates resisting change
<or accountability for their programs. Some questioning these programs have even suffered
<threats of physical harm or specious lawsuits. This kind of behavior on the part of anti-
<male, anti-family factions of the radical feminist movement continues today. 34 years of
<women's shelter service

· Librarians publicly stated they would not order or shelve our books. (Straus, Gelles and Steinmetz)

"Other social scientists committed to studying husband abuse and family violence also receive similar threats. Fear and intimidation has led to researchers giving battered men a wide berth.

driving gives me plenty of opportunity to observe lots of very aggressive driving.
R0bert,
Yes, but think that it also gives other drivers plenty of opportunity to observe you as well.
Are you right or do you just think so ?
We as a society need to view everything we do as doing it within the rails like a railway. Zig Zag, bounce off the inside of the rails do whatever you feel you need to do but do not jump the rails or try to widen or narrow the rails because if you do the train de-rails. Our integrity devoid Defence lawyers are always encouraging the deviates from jumping the rails & that's the huge problem we're facing now. Too much individual rights & absolutely zilch responsibility.

R0bert,

I hope you are not assuming that anyone with a differing view is ipso facto on the 'other side' politically.

I criticise both sides. It is a fact that Labor chases cheap votes by limiting DV to women and children. That continues the gender war that was waged by ex-PM Julia Whatshername and her front bench Leftie Emily's Listers. I would go further to say that these arrogant, self-interested educated middle class women have been doing very well for themselves and shamelessly so.

DV shouldn't be a wedge to win votes from already advantaged educated middle class women and the easily influenced who cannot think for themselves. Violence is violence and all partner violence is abhorrent. As well, why isn't the feminist definition of violence being applied equally to male victims and to lesbian violence as well.

Before anyone dives into a debate about women and men and whether women are more bossy etc. to me men thesedays –

Please FIRST explain to ALL the parameters of the scenario you wish to discuss. That is for instance, are we referring to ALL women in our modern Australia [composed of millions of people not from Anglo or even European cultures] or is it ONLY the white middle class to upper class section of our nation, AS I SUSPECT is what the author means here.

The reason such a clear definition of women and in what setting is outline, NO debate on the issue in modern Australia can actually ensue. This can be for numerous and varying reasons not the least may be that many newer non-western type culture/ethnic groups that now live as citizens here may themselves not be on exact par and in tune exactly with what we the westerner sees to be the highest and superior way of things. I mean, like in Anglo culture 50-100 years ago the roles of men and women were very different where usually the male dominated and controlled the family and had the career and freedoms whilst “the wife” stayed home, cooked and cleaned and popped out the kids. That geneder inequality was reflected in many aspects of society including law. BUT I know of some more traditionalist cultures [like Greeks, Turks, Muslims and even Islander communities like Tonga etc] where women are STILL in the role that our smallish western cultural section of the nation had 100 years earlier.

You see IF this is not clarified you may give off the impression [true or false?] that you and the other posters in secret must SEE their own western ways and their own little ALL white suburbs as the ONLY one that matters since they ALWAYS seems to refer to that as a point of reference in such debates.
That could lead the 50% or so non-white Aussies to assume you consider them less and not even really present, at least until they all convert into a westerner.

That could lead the 50% or so non-white Aussies to assume you consider them less and not even really present, at least until they all convert into a westerner.
Posted by Jottiikii, Wednesday, 2 July 2014 5:19:34 PM

You raise a very valid point, considering that non-anglo immigration has risen over the last few years.

I do know that certain sections Mediterranean groups of immigrants use to and perhaps still look down on the anglo saxons and visa a versa.

Why are the australian indigenous so quiet about this new invasion ? They were extremely vocal about the Europeans but suddenly it's all quiet. Which immigration are they more inclined to tolerate ?
It would be good if they could lay their cards on table after all it is originally their country.
Are they perhaps sympathisers of the new invaders because they too have a history of treating their females differently ?
Please correct me if I am wrong.

u ain seen nuthin/yet
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extremist-forum-and-its-readers-get-flagged-extra-surveillance

Is Christine Lagarde The Most Dangerous Woman In The World?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-03/expropriation-back-christine-lagarde-most-dangerous-woman-world

I have gone on record that the most dangerous organization is the now French led IMF with Christine Lagarde at the helm, which has presented a concept report that debt cuts for over-indebted states are uncompromising and are to be performed more effectively in the future by defaulting on retirement accounts held in life insurance, mutual funds and other types of pension schemes, or arbitrarily extending debt perpetually so you cannot redeem.

Yes you read correctly, The new IMF paper is described in great detail exactly how to now allow the private sector, which has invested in government bonds, to be expropriated to pay for the national debts of the socialist governments.

http://12160.info/xn/detail/2649739:Topic:1480624

http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/google-is-being-forced-to-censor.html

http://www.newsforage.com/2014/07/goldman-sachs-asks-judge-to-force.html
Expropriation Is Back -
http://rt.com/usa/170172-nypd-arrest-subway-sleeping/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/virginia-high-schooler-threatens-suicide-police-arrive-and-kill-him/