In recent debate here, on OLO, It has been suggested that we will in future have to be more open to diverse ethnic groups and accept aspects of cultures that currently are either unlawful or socially unacceptable.

From one poster. "Experts have pointed out that over the next few decades Australians will need to be more receptive to ethnic
change and more engaged with multicultural policies and approaches.

Australia is likely to be even more ethnically diverse in
2050 than it is now,

This will require a political leadership which encourages
tolerance and harmony and which refuses to advocate
narrow nationalism.

Such a program also requires a more humane approach to
issues like family re-union, settlement services, and refugees".

I read such views with alarm as I see our present treatment and accommodation of migrants and refugees as too soft. Especially coupled with the so called multicultural ideology.

I have asked pro MC posters here just what other alien practices should we allow or turn a blind eye to but received no comments.

So how diverse will we get and what cultural practices will we have to accept? Will FGM, underage marriage, forced marriage and polygamy become lawful activities? Only last week a convicted foreign paedophile was let off other charges because of 'cultural considerations'. Bearing in mind also there have been calls for polygamy to be lawful and for sharia law introduced.

Maybe multiculturalism could be understood similarly to multi-lingualism: the more languages people speak the better, but there must be one leading (official) language for practical reason. In Australia this is English for historical reasons, without necessarily implying its superiority over other languages.

All too often what we have in Oz is not so much MULTIculturalism as MULTI-MONO-culturalism.

Its *looks* fine as long as OZ continues to find enough minerals to sell off to pay its way, but should real hard times hit --bye bye lucky country and hello Lebanon of the West.

This will require a political leadership which encourages tolerance and harmony and which refuses to advocate narrow nationalism.
Banjo,
By 2050 there won't be tolerance & harmony & Nationalism because many white traitors who call themselves Australian are already doing their utmost to prevent tolerance & harmony & nationalism. Yes, that's what the lefties are up to or can't anyone see that ? I just wonder what they've been promised & by whom for being such traitors.

Dear Banjo,

<<I have asked pro MC posters here just what other alien practices should we allow or turn a blind eye to but received no comments.>>

I do not recall such a direct question. Also, I am not pro-MC or anti-MC: I simply oppose violence.

Yes, some of the acts you mentioned: FGM and forced marriage, are acts of violence. Polygamy however, is not and underage-marriage, unless it already falls under the former category of forced-marriage, isn't either.

However, I am more wary about violence done presumably in my name, which is what governments do, than the violence of others.

By all means, if a girl asks the state to save her from the violence of her parents, or even if information is available that a particular girl would likely have called for the state's help if she could, then the state should enter with all necessary force. But what if the girl genuinely doesn't want to be helped?

If government is allowed to interfere and "help" those who never sought its help in the first place and who were not even likely to consider requesting its help if freely-offered, one can imagine the resulting slippery-slope.

Today it's FGM, so everyone says "yay, let's stop it", but tomorrow the government may decide that nose-picking is also bad for you (not to mention obesity), so it would stop that by force too - and we all end up in jail. What for instance if the law bans kissing because it passes germs?

Today it's the sins of those Lebanese, over there, that are targeted, but tomorrow it would be your own sins that are banned: then you will cry bitterly but whom will you call for help then?!

As Jesus said: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Yuyutsu,
If you look back over my posts of the last week or two, you will see direct question to at least 3 posters about what cultural practices should we accept.

The few alien practices I showed in the opening post are ones that our politicians currently ignore and there are a number of groups that practice FGM and forced marriage.

There are many, many cultural practices that we currently do not allow. I wonder if you would care to post some that you would not object to, that are currently unacceptable. What about incest and paedophilia, or the consumption of dog meat or dolphin meat, for example. Now I have asked you as well.

The elephant in the room is the taxpayers' opinion of governments that fund multicultural lobbyists to promote policies that the taxpayers themselves, the electorate, have not been allowed to have a vote on.

There is no doubt too that many women are not having children because 'life has other plans'. Not having the children they want through social and economic constraints that inconvenience and ultimately dictate their choice is very sad. While some do not have children by choice and are happy about that forever, there is a large rump who want children but leave their run too late and do not have the number of children they want.

How long will it be before the penny drops and young Aussie couples realise that the high taxes they pay for welfare, urgent infrastructure development and the prohibitively high price of housing are necessary to support the mass migration that continually sets new records? Those young Aussie couples are being bent over both ways through taxes and sacrifice of not having their own children, and all to take thousands more migrants, ie some other country's adult children.

It is circular: Aussie women cannot have children through social and economic reasons, so more migrants from the teeming Third World are brought in to maintain growthist policies. However to support those migrants and growthist policies Aussie women must delay their own fertility indefinitely and not have the children they want. Back to start.

There is a debate we should be having but are not, because it is being drowned out by the clamour of the multicultural lobby and the array of spruikers, advocates and others who are getting a very good living from that policy. Meanwhile governments are happy to forget the needs of the 'silent' majority to pursue the few percent of 'swinging' votes promised by the ethnic lobbyists.

The only remaining choice for the exasperated electorate that is not being listened to is to regularly take out the rubbish in Canberra. That can happen to the LNP too.

good post beechie

anyhow banjo2 said..<<..If you look back over my posts of the last week or two, you will see direct question to at least 3 posters about what cultural practices should we accepT>>

THERE ARE CULTURAL LAWS.Cultural norms..cultural hangovers
there are legal/lawful moral and immoral laws
there are state laws federal laws council by laws and traty obligation higher than law

to ask as to cultural practices//we acceppt is subject to the application of which specific law..[i accept many..but follow f

see laws Allow privilege..[give license...]
THEY..Issue lawful warrant to act]/UNDER THE ACT/THOSE UNDER THE ACT..GAIN PRIVILEGES..A..BUT AS THUS SUBJECT TO THE LAWS UNDER THE ACT.

FACT IS all act..is carried out under the act
and the simple fact..you either obey the moral code..or get cast out

we dont expel people enough
if YOU DO THE CRIME..YOUR GONE.live by the same rule of law..or go.

thing is if your culture
says EAT HUMANS..YOUR THE WRONG CULTURE..we will take you back where that sort of thing belongs[we ARE NOT JUDGING MIND..ITS JUST WE THINK THAT IS BARBARIC..you cant do that sort of thing..here.

but by whos right
by what act?..WHO'S OPINIONS BIAS HATES FEARS..is right
http://rss.infowars.com/20140409_Wed_Alex.mp3

<< Its [multiculturalism] *looks* fine as long as OZ continues to find enough minerals to sell off to pay its way, but should real hard times hit --bye bye lucky country and hello Lebanon of the West. >>

Yes SPQR.

If we don’t very smartly get it through out thick heads that we need to skittle immigration and head towards a stable population, Oz won’t be able to pay its way. The most insane thing that our government is doing facilitating an ever-rapidly-growing demand for resources, goods, services and infrastructure, when there are bleedingly obvious signs of massive problems looming with our ability to keep on rapidly increasing the provision of R, G, S & I!

All manner of strife will erupt then. All manner of inequalities will increase.

This is when multiculturalism, especially the various enclave communities, will really start to show its ugly side, with the ‘us and them’ mentality rising up to prominence. Groups of people will think, rightly or wrongly, that they are being disadvantaged. General discontent and mistrust will rise, as it always does when life becomes more difficult.

Dear Banjo,

<<There are many, many cultural practices that we currently do not allow. I wonder if you would care to post some that you would not object to, that are currently unacceptable. What about incest and paedophilia, or the consumption of dog meat or dolphin meat, for example. Now I have asked you as well.>>

What one accepts or doesn't is a personal question.
We have every right to accept none of the above.
We have every right to feel disgusted at such practices.
We have every right to boycott those who practice them.
We have every right to deny them all privileges, welfare for example.

But unless there is a victim who, explicitly or even implicitly, authorises us to help them, we have no right to intervene violently.

So applying this criteria to each practice in turn, I must ask: "is there a victim who wants me/us to help them?"

FGM, forced marriages and paedophilia: yes, there is likely to be such a victim, so we may reasonably assume that we can intervene unless the victim(s) tell us otherwise.

Incest: intergenerational incest would usually come under paedophilia, otherwise (such as brother/sister) it is quite unlikely to have a victim.

Underage marriage: it often is forced, but if it is not, then there is no victim.

Polygamy: I see no victims there (unless you count those single men who complain that polygamy makes it harder for them to find a bride).

Consumption of dog or dolphin meat: as a vegetarian I see the consumption of dog/dolphin meat equally disgusting as the consumption of cow/pig/chicken meat. Yet my private disgust gives me no right to harass those who eat meat and I do condemn the violent response by PETA and the like. Whoever wants to boycott those who consume dog/dolphin meat is welcome to avoid all personal/social/professional/business contacts with them, but nothing beyond that.

Any other practices?

"Experts have pointed out that over the next few decades Australians will need to be more receptive to ethnic
change and more engaged with multicultural policies and approaches". Well have they really.

So what we need to do is find those "experts" & silence them quick time.

Of course they may not actually exist. Unnamed experts are often a figment of the imagination of some fool bleeding heart, trying to give some credibility to their position.

Then again, it is the type of stupidity we have come to expect from academics in their ivory towers. Many of them feel more kinship with academics from third world hell holes, & are in favor of us taking in them, & their uneducated brethren.

Yuyutsu can see no victims in Polygamy, but of course he is rather one eyed. Perhaps he does not consider our whole society is a victim, when the excessive progeny of Polygamy then has to be supported by the regular population.

This was much of the argument of the original post by Banjo, of the inequity of the genuine Ozzies having to support an increasing burden in the ethnic population, a population that offers absolutely nothing to those it is being forced upon.

Perhaps these "experts" would do well to look at a little history. Real Ozzies are very slow to anger. They will put up with much. However just push a bit too hard, & you will be hit by a tsunami, you didn't see building. It would be wise for the bleeding hearts to quit now, before they get to that point

onthebeach Quote "taxpayers' opinion of governments that fund multicultural lobbyists to promote policies that the taxpayers themselves, the electorate, have not been allowed to have a vote on."

Someone can correct me if they think I am wrong but I believe most voters do not know what the Government spends most of the money on.

For example on another thread chrisgaff1000 posted a link to what exactly how much was being given to multicultural organizations, a lot of people had no idea about the extent of money being spent.

Some money is being hidden other things just do not get reported unless people read the whole budget papers which I would doubt if even 1% of the population would do.

Look at the link and tell me if you were aware of these and if you think even a small percentage of the population know about what organizations we are giving money to?

http://www.immi.gov.au/living-in-australia/delivering-assistance/settlement-grants/funded-orgs-previous.htm

Dear Hasbeen,

<<Perhaps he does not consider our whole society is a victim, when the excessive progeny of Polygamy then has to be supported by the regular population.>>

Aren't you now describing Australian society as it already is?

As it stands, there is nothing illegal about one penniless man impregnating 4 single mothers at once, time and again, to be supported by the regular population without ever marrying any of them.

How do you propose that the act of marriage might worsen any of that?
If anything, it could increase the chance that those women would prefer to marry someone with money that will support them and their babies as well as limit their numbers once their financial abilities nears its limit.

Yes, the state should cease supporting baby-making at the tax-payer's expense, but this has nothing to do with marriage or the number of wives one has.

Yuyutsu, "the state should cease supporting baby-making at the tax-payer's expense"

Fair enough, but what about the direct and indirect costs to the taxpayer of mass migration?

Hi there HASBEEN...

Do you actually believe that Aussies are 'slow to anger' and when they do so, 'watch out' a veritable tsunami will erupt ? Thirty years ago I would've agreed with you but now, I'm not so sure ? The average Australian, provided he's got a job, watches his footy, has his few beers etc etc, I don't think he really cares ?

It's as if we all suffer from an approaching 'immigration' inertia or malaise ? '...As long as it doesn't affect me, who cares...'? HASBEEN, it's always been the Aussie way, hasn't it ? To be perfectly honest with you my friend, I think it's probably already too late ? Australia has advanced too far along the road of becoming, irreversibly totally multicultural. So I fear it's already too late ?

o sung wu,

The average Australian cares alright, but the prevailing extreme form of political correctness seen in this country ensures continuing censorship of that inconvenient reality. Also, that Australians are not being given the opportunity to vote on it.

The LNP should take heed of what happened to the Labor/Greens crew when they pretended not to notice the electorate's dissatisfaction with mass migration (Rudd's 'Big Australia') and the Greens' lunar open door immigration policy.

While the major parties might think it is smart to always pander to political 'Progressives' tub-thumping their multiculturalism to hopefully gather a few percent of the supposed swinging ethnic vote, not only is that an unreliable promise, but the government of the day WILL reap what they have sown when the electorate catches up to them at the next general election.

The electorate is only marking time with the tired options of Labor+ Greens or LNP they are presented with at polls and evidence of that dissatisfaction is presented daily where the public are questioned and not the usual talking heads favoured by the feckless media.

There will be more political instability. Because Labor, Greens and LNP believe that the public are foolish 'punters' (a contemptuous slur employed often) who can always be convinced and directed by spin. I believe that the majors are playing with fire and once their credibility is lost it will not be regained. Unfortunately, the public is losing faith in the Parliament and the processes of democracy. That is not good.

O sung wu,
You said, "The average Australian, provided he's got a job, watches his footy, has his few beers etc etc, I don't think he really cares"

I think you are right and the governments use sport, etc. to distract people away from politics.

But you are too pessimistic about the future. I have been advocating against MC for 40 years and I now see an opportunity for it to be dead and buried. Politicians are slow to wake up!

You may recall that the Howard stopped using the MC term and was willing to let it die naturally. The Rudd and Gillard governments did not push MC. Gillard floated the concept a couple of times but it did not get much support and was dropped. I have read a few speeches Minister Morrison has made and I believe there is every possibility that MC will be formally discarded. He has a couple of other things on his plate to deal with first.

I accept it is too late for the UK to change but there is still time for us. We have gained nothing from multicultural ideology and it was implemented to foster the original cultures of migrants. We can do without government sponsored social engineering.

I will take this opportunity to step up my lobbying activity, starting with Morrison.

Dear OnTheBeach,

<<Fair enough, but what about the direct and indirect costs to the taxpayer of mass migration?>>

The cost of migration to the taxpayer should be zero.

The current expenses are for preventing migration, not for migration itself.

If Australians want to bring in people, that's OK, they should be free to do so, but they must pay for it themselves (or the migrants, if they have money), not the tax-payer, including all direct and indirect costs.

Those who try to arrive by boat should neither be stopped nor rescued. If they do manage to come on shore alive, then they should receive no assistance from the tax-payer. They may receive assistance from churches, charities and kind individuals - which is fine. If they want to be assessed for a legal status such as refugees, then someone in the community needs to be willing to pay for that procedure.

Good afternoon to you ONTHEBEACH and BANJO...

By golly I really and truly hope you're both right, I really do ! I have the gravest fears for our culture, our country, and our unique way of life. Before I retired I saw whole suburbs (Bankstown, Greenacre, Wiley Park etc.) of SW Sydney, taken over by the most violent, malevolent, and venomous Islamic gangs I've ever seen. It is for this reason I hope that both of you are correct in this instance, and I'm absolutely wrong !

You see I'm too old now to, take to task the politicians (of all Parties) who've stood by passively, and allowed this to happen ! They sit amid the beautiful decor, of their lavishly furnished air-conditioned offices in Parliament House, in Canberra, completely insulated from the events that are occurring, just 300kms up the road in Western Sydney.

Apparently, all are oblivious to the corrosive effect this failed experiment in 'multiculturalism' has had on the ordinary people who've lived and worked in the Bankstown area, and it's broad environs, for generations upon generations.

Even former PM Paul Keating was a proud son of Bankstown. Now though, all but a very few Aussies, have been driven right out of their beloved suburb by the menacing and hostile presence of these awful religious gangs ! The few that remain, are constantly frightened by almost nightly gunfire ? You believe I exaggerate ? Watch TV's nightly news, or read the morning newspapers ?

So I again repeat, ONTHEBEACH and BANJO, I really, really hope you are both right for all our sakes !

I saw a post on one of the boat people threads recently where some reasons why "refugees" choose to come here were listed. I can't find the post. It was from someone who I would consider a supporter of a more accommodating approach to refugees. One item that stuck in my mind was along the lines of "Breakdown of civil society". That may not be the exact words. I may not have the exact wording.

For me that items sits at the heart of the issue. Whilst I'll happily ascribe a little of the guilt to the excesses of the CIA I don't think that's the whole story.

The cultures many are fleeing are toxic, relying on tribal loyalties and oppression to hold together when they are stable. I think a lot of opponents of muslim immigration think that many coming here bring those same toxic cultural habits with them (and I include the way religion is practised under the term culture).

Some may have been on the loosing side of a local conflict but that does not imply a rejection of the attitudes and beliefs that created the conflict in the first place. People can flee a situation and take with them the causes of the situation they despise.

None of that's to suggest our own culture is perfect but for the most part we have not embraced the same levels of tribalism and brutality that seems to be at heart of the breakdown of civil society in the countries many current refugee's originate from.

R0bert

o sung wu,
Hey, I am an oldie too. I can recall going to some Saturday night dances at Bankstown Town Hall just to see Col Joye playing. We got our highs from the music, there was no drugs or grog there.

So I reckon you are still capable of Penning a letter to Morrison or the PM and giving them you thoughts about MC. Hope you consider that.

While I have you, do you know of any type of crimes that you can specifically relate to MC, or a increase of the type. I was thinking about 'home invasions' and maybe 'extortion'. When I was young we never heard of home invasion. The drug scene and MC seemed to have coincided or both began about the same time.

R0bert "Breakdown of civil society"

Exactly.
How could there possibly be "social cohesion" (a favorite buzzword of pro-multi activists) with people from 6000 different cultures?

Things have not fallen apart yet, because of the momentum of past success/stability.
You will notice though that since the GFC, much more hostility has emerged.

Some are predicting another crash is imminent.
Could that be the last straw?

Hi there BANJO...

The thing that struck me most with the Islamic coterie, was a complete lack of co-operation - nobody saw anything, heard anything, knew anything. They were not intimidated by a police presence, in fact whenever you had occasion to speak with any of them, you were often met with just 'dumb insolence'.

Therefore most police operations, were reactive rather then proactive. On a normal ramp, you might get a gun or a knife of some description if you were lucky ? They seemed to be well provisioned concerning all manner of illicit weapons.

BANJO, most crime was committed 'in company'. That is to say they actively operated in gangs, whatever the crime was. Home invasion was not something that I had much dealing with, while I was working the area. Demanding property/money with menaces was common. Together with all strata of crimes of violence ? Bashings we carried out in company to. The days of 'one out' behind the pub were long gone.

You see BANJO, even though these blokes had strongly identified with the Lebanese, occasionally Turkish, and Syrian gangs, most were ordinary Australian citizens who were born here ? Many had no definable accent, nor could they be intimidated into thinking they might be deported as undesirable aliens either ?

Often the lower courts were quite lenient with them initially. However, indictable offences did attract some heavier penalties to be quite fair.

Further, just before I retired, there was a strong emergence of native born Somalian and Sudanese gangs introduced into the mix also ? It was my understanding, the latter didn't get on too well, with the mainstream Muslim groups ?

Migration must be a two way street. When the decision is made to apply to migrate to another country,(for the chance of a different life for themselves and family, maybe better education or the opportunity to put thier work skills to better use) people, particularly from countries where they define themselves by their religion rather than nationality must be fully informed of what to expect, what is expected of them and be willing to make a few changes. As Im sure if I were to do the same, I would have to expect there would be alot of adaptations. If i decided I couldnt bring myself to meet these expectations, I would stay put. (I certainly wouldnt gather a heap of my mates, form a gang, turn rebel and demand rights).
My understanding of those seeking asylum, are fleeing for fear of their lives. Escaping a 'toxic' culture and are destitute. Realizing
they could be given food, clothing and a roof over their heads in a non war torn country, must give them overwhelming feelings of gratefulness and worth.
As they have been victims not criminals, and want to become a part of society, they would be eager to learn the language of their new country offering any work skills they may have. As they no doubt would be penniless, assistance be offered as a loan to enable them to get on their feet. The process would no doubt be lengthy, but none the less a learning process, education (language and culture) work skills. The living arrangements through this time would be basic, (which they would have to expect) where their necessities are met. Comfort in the knowledge that they are safe and are being offered the opportunity to become working respectable citizens.
One last thing, there needs to be an emphasis on those where some traditional religious rituals or behaviors are considered criminal. Crimes committed by anyone are dealt with by the law, whether black white or brindle, male or female, no exceptions.

Good evening to you JODELIE...

Your previous email, where you articulated most eloquently, that any crime committed must be dealt with by the law. Whether or not it's committed by a black, brown, brindle, or white individual- all should be treated equitably before the law !

I couldn't agree with you more.

Good evening to you gentle person O sung wu
Thank you for your comment

Oh so this is where the drums are being beaten now. Too much to hope for a rational discussion I see.

What have we got. Banjo hasn't wasted any time trumpeting 'FGM, and underage marriage' in the very first post, individual has gone straight to calling those who support multiculturalism 'traitors', and Hasbeen is warning of revolution.

Well I'm happy to try starting off slowly and see where it gets us.

My father-in-law emigrated to Australia from Berlin in the mid 50s. He came from a country of people who less than 10 years before that were gassing millions of men, women, and children then shovelling their bodies into ovens. The scale of this horror was utterly unimaginable and there is no doubt the trauma is still felt deeply throughout the world.

He worked hard to raise a family in his newly adopted country but still retained many of his Germanic ways. He was never one to have a few beers at the pub with work mates, none of his sons played footy or cricket (which curiously has thus far extended itself into the third generation), and he certainly hasn't adopted the so called 'Aussie' sense of humour. What he has done however is made his way in a country that was prepared in most circumstances to let him shake off the history of his former nation and also prepared to give him the room to make a life for himself.

In the eyes of many posting here his reluctance to 'fully assimilate into our Australian culture and way of life' would be a black mark against his name and so would his history.

Does it really come down to his only saving grace in the eyes of you lot is that he is white?

For some reason I thought of my country as being bigger than that.

SteeleRedux no arguement here lol
My dad also came here by ship from Germany in 1953, under those same circumstances. He told us some stories from but carried some of the hardest to bare to his dying days.
He joined the Australian army, later married had kids and worked hard all his life. He loved Australia and its people (wouldnt tolerate idiots) but never lost his regimented Germanic ways. Racism didnt exist in our family (he married a Polish Jew who died before he came over). Good people were good people.
He ran the office of Consmer affairs and Industrail relations in the Pilbara for many years. A job he was passionate about, being able to look after those being ripped-off or deceived. Who otherwise wouldnt or couldnt seek assistance. He lived and fought for a happy peaceful life and enjoyed seeing everyone happy.
Dad would befriend anyone (though not trust many). He did love to laugh, I think to make up for all the sad times.

@SteeleRedux

Trust ol' Steeley to play a few cards from the bottom of the deck.

<<My father-in-law emigrated from ... Berlin...[gas chambers] ovens>>

<<He worked hard to raise a family in his newly adopted country...[went to the pub]...played footy or cricket>>

<<Does it really come down to his only saving grace in the eyes of you lot is that he is white?>> !

Must admit I haven't read every post --but can't recall anyone mentioning *needing to be white* before Steeley brought it up!

Steeley if you think MC is all about the above, then you seriously need to get out more --take a walk on the wild side, like the ethnic enclaves of Sydney!

A few warm'n fozzy individual examples can not right the countless wrongs we let in at our expense. There has to be some filtering. You have to be cruel to be kind now rings more true than ever. Good people are very hard to find so i suggest we let in as many as we can find.
I don't believe you find them barging in through the back door. Just look how so many carry on when they realise they have failed to carry out their orders, they riot & thrash the very facilities that provide them with safety. Freedom will come when they've proven themselves genuine. Rioting is no proof.

Individual. If you happened to read my post on page four 'my understanding of asylum seekers' was a tad tongue in cheek.

Steele,
In case you have not noticed, not all Aussies go to pubs, watch footy or play cricket. You seem to have a very superficial view of Australian culture.

As long as your Father-in-law respected our laws and social standards he would be welcomed as a 'New Australian'. Does not matter if he was black, white or brindle, or where he came from.

What we have now, because of MC, is that some groups hold our society in contempt and believe their original cultural practices to be above our laws and social standards.

Be nice if you can offer some suggestions of alien cultural practices that would enrich us in the quest for greater diversity. Hey, I understand Iraq is about to pass laws for marriage at nine yo, allow rape in marriage, and for a wife to get permission from her husband to leave the house. Would you agree with that?

Jodelie,
I take it then that you would not accept the conduct of this mob in the quest for diversity or for cultural sensitivity.

http://pickeringpost.com/story/did-islamic-youths-rape-another-young-mother-/3080 Sorry there does not appear to have a date.

Multiculturalism in action. Am sure the lady felt enriched by her cultural experience.

Oh Banjo. Gentleman and scholar. You would be correct in your assumption that I would view this as inhumane and criminal, despite what they choose to call it. These mongrels, tough in numbers, being allowed to carry on their tradition (thats their culture) is blood curdling and mind blowing. What these people have been taught for generations, is that their God,Allah whatever given right (was there a harm no man, peace and love for all?) is now, PEOPLE, criminal and barbaric. This behavior will continue, cause sure as hell no one here is going to succeed in changing extremists religious beliefs.
And if our justice system is lenient due to the criminals 'extremist religious beliefs' our justice system is pathetic, who they are sucking up to stuffed if I know.

Dear jolelie,

It sounds like you would have had an interesting upbringing.

My father-in-law is probably not as enthusiastic in completely disassociating himself from ideas about racial purity as your father (not that he was ever overt in this) and he has been know to regale us all with some of Hitler's policies that he considered worthy. But he does have a real love for this country and the freedoms we enjoy.

The history of the German migrations before and after the war is really fascinating. In some areas in Brazil there are towns when over 90% of the population are white Germanic peoples. It is interesting to note that of people speaking the German language outside of Germany the US has over 5,000,000 but Brazil is second with 3,000,000. Here in Australia we have just over 110,000. What was the attraction do you think to Brazil of all places?

Not only was their language preserved but also their culture and architecture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomerode

Pomerode is what others on here would call an 'ethnic enclave'. What contributed to sustaining these populations was the extraordinary birth rate of German immigrants.

“Research has found that between 1826 and 1828 a first-generation German Brazilian woman had an average of 8.5 children, and the second generation had an average of 10.4 children per woman. Birth rates among German Brazilian women were higher than those of other Brazilian women, resulting in faster growth of the population of German origin than of the population of non-German origin and a rapid increase in the population of German origin in the country.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Brazilian

Of course mentioning immigration birth rates on threads like this will have certain posters, gnashing teeth and rending garments but back then it seem the Brazilians largely took it in their stride.

Dear SPQR and Banjo,

The reason I mentioned Germany's actions during the war is to counter this crap from Banjo; “I understand Iraq is about to pass laws for marriage at nine yo, allow rape in marriage, and for a wife to get permission from her husband to leave the house.”

So you would have us block migrants from Iraq because some far right religious political group is trying to push through some arcane law just to boost their chances in the upcoming election? Yet we actively sought migrants from post war Germany even though their popular leadership was guilty of the most hideous crimes against humanity of the last century. It has been estimated that fully a third of Germany adult males engaged in some sort of violence against Jewish people during those years. Until recently the US was one of only 5 countries in the world that executed child offenders. Why didn't that disqualify their citizens from migrating to Australia? Finally Australia is now a country that has been named by the UN in reference to human rights abuse. Should that preclude my children from emigrating if they wished?

It is an inane argument with tenuous validity. Time to start playing another tune.

Jodelie,
I am shocked as I have never been referred to in those terms before.
Flattery will get you everywhere! I usually get racist or xenophobic here.

Because our laws are so lenient, I don't think tightening laws will work. We simply need to stop allowing in those who, collectively, have demonstrated they hold our laws and standards in contempt.

We need a more selective immigration system which includes which refugees we accept. We should not burden our community with people that will not integrate.

Maybe one day we will get a government with enough spine to do this.

Many people seem to have forgotten that we have laws in our society and penalties against those who disobey them.
If you do the wrong thing, you are punished.

That should be enough - what else do you want?

Have prospective immigrants fill out a questionaire or make specific promises not to do certain things?

This isn't a matter of putting a fence on top of a cliff instead of parking an ambulance at the bottom.
This is just a masked racist attack hidden behind a phony veneer of social concern.

I've seen the same tired old arguments used about Chinese, Vietnamese, Greeks, Italians, Poles and so on over the years. It's always the same. It's obvious who is being targetted here without them being named.

You only forgot to mention which diseases they may be carrying plus their suspicious continuing allegiances to former countries.

The only relative law that was recently addressed was 18C where we are now free to express bigotry - a great leap forward in any tolerant society.
Hang in there though - you will soon be able to yell your feelings directly at them in the streets.

Steele,
I also asked if you would agree with these laws that are about to be made by the elected government in Iraq. Which incidentally include the right for a husband to demand sex whenever he wishes and the sole guardian of the children from age 2.

Gee, you want us to be multicultural so why would you not advocate that we adjust our standards for an Iraqi migrant/refugee to comply with the laws from his original country. Similarly, if it is part of Afghan culture for blokes to have little boys for sex, why would you deny Afghan refugees their cultural normalacy.

The point is that there are many alien cultural practices but pro MC advocates ignore them in their desire for us to be multicultural and they see it as being the price we have to pay for MC. You are aware that hundreds of underage girls have been sent overseas for marriage but no, you don't mention that.

Rather than expand our ethnic diversity, we need to restrict it to those that respect our culture.

Wobbles,
Are you aware that ALL migrants are given information, in 30 languages, about our society, government and community when they apply for a visa to come here.

As I have said before, most migrants handle the change and adjust to comply with our society. However the are a few groups that cannot or will not because of ingrained cultures or they believe their old cultures come before our ways.

Some groups have been here 3-4 generations and still hold to their original alien ways.

Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. It is cultural pure and simple.

@Wobbles,

<<Many people seem to have forgotten that we have laws in our society and penalties against those who disobey them.
If you do the wrong thing, you are punished.
That should be enough - what else do you want?>>

Only in your fairytale books!

In the real world MC (and associated doctrines) distort the law.
Lead it to be applied selectively --leave it open to manipulation.

The following link may be of some interest:

http://www2.psy.uq.edu.au/~uqbbast1/Bastian%20Ch4%20Peace%20Psychology%20Australia.pdf

SteeleRedux, your father-in-law was welcomed because Australians didn't taint all Germans with the blame/guilt only Nazis deserved.

Unlike you, who in another recent thread, implied all White South Africans were somehow tainted because of apartheid.

"Yet we actively sought migrants from post war Germany"

Not *during* the Nazi leadership though.
We locked Germans up in camps (Japanese and Italians too).

Today, we let thousands of "enemy aliens" into the country, free to roam the streets, even while we are still at war with them!

Hello there STEELEREDUX...

I realise you and I have 'done to death' this issue of Muslim Immigration. You on the one hand, cite positive experiences with those of the Muslim persuasion. While I on the other hand, can only describe those I've dealt with on a professional basis. To suggest therefore, there may be some middle ground, that might well be extrapolated into a very positive worthwhile experiment, of Muslims being (wilfully), fully integrated into the broader Australian community ? Would founder, before it ever got off the ground !

Unfortunately that's where the unassailable 'log jam' occurs ? There's nothing in existence, no protocol or methodology, that would assist Muslims, into ever (peacefully) integrating or assimilating into any culture, anywhere in the world ? It is for this reason, that our culture and the Islamic culture, are totally incompatible at any level.

You see STEELEREDUX, the Muslims don't want any part of us. What they want is our Country, and all the riches and benefits that brings them.

Foxy,

LOL, you and your links, this time to a student it appears.

Although he sounds a bit uncertain and it is apparently not his experience but anecdotal, your student says he "recall(s) hearing that Greeks or Italians were sometimes referred to as Wogs".

I haven't heard that word for many years but even back then it was by comedians claiming their ethnicity and earning a buck.

However, if you venture outdoors you will find that 'white c[bleep]' is very common indeed and may even be excused by progressive-thinking judges as the usual language of some sections of the population and nothing they should apologise for at all. Goodness, the police cop similar epithets and provided the offender is indigenous, progressive-thinking judges may find no wrong and might even scold the police for taking offence in the first place.

Now you don't have to scour the Net for examples of "White C[bleep]" do you, because it is very common indeed - which is what those 'progressive' judges are saying (and excusing) of course.

O Sung Wu,
This guy nails it I think and bear in mind that the U.K are thirty years further down the track than we are, compared to Islam our way of life has little to offer these people, they're just not impressed by "the fair go":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGNQIUZEAA&list=UULfhh63n0fWn0gXXKQ5NWvw

Dear o sung wu,

As I said mate I understand your background but it just isn't my experience at all.

So what do you want me to do with the young Muslim chap I coach, sure around the fasting period I have to be careful I don't run him too hard even though he is one of my better players, do I tell him he can't play in the team any more because this ex copper has assured me that he doesn't really want to be part of us, that all he wants is our land? I pretty darn sure it will be a surprise to him.

And I suppose the next time another Muslim bloke I know, a mad keen 4 wheel drive freak, goes to cook up some of the best steaks ever to come off a barbie I should tell him no thanks because all he really wants is to take my riches?

Which leaves us with those young Aussie adults who seem to find something in the Muslim faith that speaks to them, looks like its deportation for them all?
http://youtu.be/VNOOGwM1vNA

With most of the other agitators here I would say grow a bloody spine but I accept your occupation has dealt you a jaundiced view of Muslims. But I think you need to accept that all over Australia, and indeed overseas, millions of who you would deem as 'Aussies' are having day to day experiences with Muslim Australians and others that are vastly different to the ones you experienced in your work.

That is their reality as it is mine and my children's.

oh sung/w0e..please let me rewrite..your words
but let me preface..it with my experience re coppers

There's nothing in existence, no protocol or methodology, that would assist COPPERS, into ever (peacefully) integrating or assimilating into any culture, anywhere in the world ?

It is for this reason, that our culture
and the POLICING POLICY/FOR REVENUE.. culture, are totally incompatible at any level...BUT BY THE LEECHES WILLING TO BUST US FOR OUR LAST DOLLAR VIA HOME INVASION WITH THUGS AND GUns

now oh sung wo..you know iy aint so
but i dealt with coppers on the inside/where they think their safe
i been with the mongel coppers yen to one in a jail cell at 4 am in the moring[im guessing re the time cause thats part of the fun these outcast coppers [with ten biollion fighting funds..do

nope coppers mate they cant be trusted
see how silly it sounds old brother
let go that wispering of the blackdog..its out own thinking that brings us down

noW I KNOW STEEL HAS KNOWN MANY GOOD COPPERS
HE ASSURES YOU THESE COPPERS ARE JUST LIKE WE USED TO BE..KEEN TO FIT IN[HECK THE NEXT LOT OF RACES THAT COME IN WE ALL WILL BE JOKING TOGETHER RE THE PINKOS..JUST WANTING OUR CASH OUR WOMAN OUR JOBS AND OUR DOLE.

COME-ON WE ARE ALL BIASED BY LIFES EXPERIENCE
BUT YOU GOT THE BRAINS TO WORK PAST IT..or not/

but even chriss seems more calm of late..we can change/they can change/there WILL BE GOOD AND BAD..and the bed will get their.but the good no one ever says sorry i was wrong.i judged a race..not a mate.

IF BELLY HAD SAID THE SAME
I WOULD HAVE PUT DOWN UNIONISTS..HOPING THAT MIGHT HELP HIM RELAX

I LOVE THE SMELL of black powder
how you feel re black power..how about them avo/abo's...eh?.

O sung wu, Banjo. Exactly what you both said.
On the subject of 'a number of young Australians converting to the Muslim faith'. These young people have sought out a happier way to live their lives, 'peaceful happy and loving' is very appealing.
Not to put a dampener on it, but I wonder how they would fare if they were to join those of their new faith, in a middle eastern community, enabling them to fully discover their new found freedom.

No Jodelle, they're psychologically damaged individuals who habitually associate with Lebanese criminals, notice how these White gangster's moll "converts" are all the most radical and outspoken and how all of them automatically adopt the Hijab?
The man who gave away his 12 year old daughter to a Lebanese suitor was a convert to Islam, that cockroach Ibrahim Siddiq Conlon is the chief apologist in this country for this type of nonsense and he's a convert too.
I can tell straight away you've never met a Muslim in real life, nobody who has had any interaction with them would ever confuse their mindset with anything we'd call "peace", the women are every bit as obnoxious as the men.

Oh yeah Jodelle, I know you're only playing Devil's advocate but one for the road: Roberta Williams is the classic example, as soon as her White gangster husband Carl was imprisoned she'd shacked up with a Lebanese hoodlum and "converted" to Islam, these are the type of people you're dealing with, the absolute dregs of White Australia.

Hi there STEELEREDUX and ONE UNDER GOD...

It would be patently absurd to suggest to the Muslim folk with whom you've successfully interacted, within the confines of the sporting sphere to suggest they return home. There are exceptions to every situation, to every rule. And yes ONE UNDER GOD, some coppers are beneath contempt, and as such should be punished most severely.

Moreover, there are many Muslim individuals who live quite successfully, amongst ordinary working Australians, who've managed to successfully assimilate and interact fully, within our culture.

What I'm saying is, we should learn from the experiences of other countries. Countries who've permitted Muslims unfettered access to their nation without first undertaking even the most perfunctory or cursory examination as to their true motives and genuine reasons, for wishing to settle therein ? We as a Nation, together with ALL our current crop of politicians, should carefully observe the inexorable unravelling of a once proud British nation, all because of the unofficial powers that have been accorded to Muslims in Great Britain.

With their official government 'mantra' of 'Political Correctness' ! All the while, covertly tightening the gag on the average British worker and citizen, who's paid his taxes all his working life ! Now unable to exercise his God given right of 'FREE SPEECH', all because it's not considered 'Politically Correct'.

We're so lucky down here in Australia, to be able to read and observe the FUTURE as it happens, in real time ! If either you STEELEREDUX, or my good friend, ONE UNDER GOD, care to observe closely ? The situation as it exists today in Great Britain, will be the exact same situation that Australia will be in, in thirty to forty years time ! If we simply standby and do NOTHING to close and regulate our borders... now !

otb,

If that's all you got out of the link that I
cited I feel very, very, sorry for you.
Still, we have seen that people in different
walks of life may interpret the same phenomenon,
whether it is a link given by a student, government
policies on immigration, and multiculturalism, in very
different ways. In other words, people tend to
see things from a viewpoint of subjectivity - an
interpretation based on personal values, their
background, education, training, and prior
experiences.

However, you should not assume that what others have
experienced is invalid simply because you did not
experience it yourself. As the student said -
we are all different.
However, people, even students are entitled to express
things as they have experienced. By listening to
them we just may learn something. His Conclusion at the
end summs things up rather well. At least in my opinion.

Have a nice day.

Is PC a tool made up by Muslims or is really just plain academic stupidity ?

Academia and stupidity go hand in hand, given that the recipients of arts degrees are backward religious fundamentalists themselves it's no wonder they go into bat for the classes of people with whom they share the strongest affinity.
Political correctness is not LIKE a religion, it IS a religion.

<< the Muslim folk with whom you've successfully interacted, within the confines of the sporting sphere... are exceptions>>

Now, I'll need to put this delicately ...not mention any names.

But having followed the exploits of some of these true believer sports icons. However exception they might be ON the field -- once OFF the field they often prove far from exceptional (exceptional in the sense used above). Not a wolf in sheeps clothing --but near enough to a Bin Laden in a sports atire.

degrees and honours to learn how to defend the indefensible. Might get you a job with the abc but does the country no good.

a gem among the soil..oil..spoil

<<..However, you should not assume
that what others have..experienced is invalid
simply...because you did not..experience it yourself.>>

out of the mouths of *babes*

thats so sweet..here is something a little less accommodating
http://pro.sovereignsociety.com/SVS911/OSVSQ301/?h=true

but..here[ALEX TALKS TO THE boring-TOPIC]..AFTER THE FIRST HOUR
http://rss.infowars.com/20140411_Fri_Alex.mp3

three times i stopped reading the thread
but its the only game in town
the last thing i want TO 'KNOW'
BUT ITS THE ONLY GAME THEY WANT TO KNOW.

i gotta slow dow..impatience has forced me to not stop and smell the gunsmoke.[yeah now that was a great programing/that and the texus [tax-us]..ranger and rinG tintin.casey jones..PETTY GOAT FUNCTION..and homer piles.

drifts off into the never never
badly whistlingn .memories...home and away..neighbours
have a nice day

Curse
"However exception they"

should read

"However exceptionAL they"

Banjo, I agree with your thoughts, and my personal view is that all peoples are welcome as long as moderation of alien customs that do not conform to the existing society is accepted by the immigrant.

But my views on expectations (as a baby boomer) is polarized by young Australians. My kids are early twenties, two are trade educated and two are uni educated. The trade educated agree with my thoughts on the criteria for melding into our society. The uni two think any custom is acceptable as long as it does not infringe the humanistic rights of children and women.

The uni two are not nationalists, but globalists, as for the trade two they are definitely nationalists. These kids are a reflection of environmental input and example the divide that has been planned and implemented for the first world. All immigration into the first world since 1970 has been a social engineering exercise to break down the homogenous nature of our society.

But in being a nationalist I am also pro human, we are all the same, just the customs and language were changed to confuse the innocent.

OUG>>i gotta slow dow..impatience has forced me to not stop and smell the gunsmoke.[yeah now that was a great programing/that and the texus [tax-us]..ranger and rinG tintin.casey jones..PETTY GOAT FUNCTION..and homer piles.

drifts off into the never never
badly whistlingn .memories...home and away..neighbours
have a nice day<<

I have said it before OUG, your the only wordsmith on this forum.

Sonofgloin,
The differences between, broadly speaking, the races and then specific ethnic groups (or nations) by far outweigh any superficial similarities.
There are differences in bone structure and density,muscle mass and function, proportions of fat to muscle, hair, teeth, eye and eyesight, liver function, gut function and so on.
None of these differences are disputed by science and differences in brain structure and size between identifiable groups are a scientific fact.
What you're buying into by effectively saying "under the skin we're all the same" is the idea that genetic diversity stops at the neck, that brain size and structure has no influence on the way individuals and thus groups and nations might think.
Put that way the idea of "equality" is laughable, don't you think?
Science is turning the orthodox, politically correct view of human "evolution" on it's head, here's a whole blog devoted to this very subject if you're interested in updating your knowledge of human biodiversity:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/

Well, after posting this thread and directly asking about six pro multiculturalists, not one suggestion of what further alien cultural practices we should allow in the quest for greater diversity.

All I can say is that they are hypocrits as they endorse MC but wont tell us how to get more diversity, let alone how we will benefit from it. Or will they just quietly accept the adverse effects and then dine at their favoured ethnic eatery. Alien cultural practices will not effect them.

Frankly it seems they are pseudo multiculturalists who only wamt the nice things and disown the rest.

In a report due out soon, it states that on 2011 abs figures, there are 1000 girls in Aus 'at risk' of FGM and the Immigrant Womens Health Service say hundreds of underage girls have been sent overseas for early marriage.

How multiculturalists can condone this and want more diversity is mind boggling.

Foxy says: <<As the student said -we are all different>>

Soooo, if we are ALL different. why does (govt sponsored) MC place such value on *GROUPS*
And on maintaining, differentiating & rewarding *GROUP* identity?

_________________________________________

OUG says <<<<out of the mouths of *babes*>>
You mean this babe? http://www.impawards.com/1998/babe_pig_in_the_city_ver2_xlg.html
I'll bet this babe --however knowledgeable -- wont be getting to present her wisdom in any Mosque!

As I suspect, would this one
http://chuck-bauman.deviantart.com/art/WW2-bomber-Pin-Up-Girl-292780964

Not very sporting of 'em ay?

Dear Banjo,

I'm not aware of anybody condoning FGM.
It is illegal in this country as is under-age
marriage. People are entitled to practice their
beliefs against the framework of our laws -
and if they break our laws they shall be punished
accordingly.

But we've been over this topic many times - and you
still insist on bringing up these old chestnuts -
as an excuse to stop what you consider "alien"
cultures being imported into this country.

You accuse multiculturalism of being divisive.
This is an assertion without evidence. The concept
of "social division" is hard to substantiate in a
peaceful democracy. It could refer to many cleavages
which have nothing to do with ethnicity, such as
rich and poor, workers and bosses, educated and
ignorant, metropolitan and provincial, male and female,
and so on. These have all been important at various
times. Of course there is undoubtedly some concern
by some people that Australia was going "off the rails,"
because of diversity.

By many measures Australia is the most stable, united and
self-satisfied society on earth, but it is also apparently
haunted by an inexplicable sense that the ship will sink at
any moment.

Leadership, solidarity,homogeneity, common values, all assume
prominence in public responses to this fear. They are
frequently mobilised by politicians (notably by John Howard
in the 2001 election). However official multiculturalism has
always been concerned with alleviating social tensions.
Hence the government funded programs. However what the
critics are referring to is not official programs but their
observed increase in ethnic variety which, as in other
societies, often exacerbates anxiety.

I cited a link earlier - did you even bother to read it?
otb - brushed it aside as the work of a "student" - even
though on another discussion he was suggesting the importance
of PHD research. (He goes with his own agenda). I did not
corect otb - the author of the link I gave Dr Brock
Bastian is a Professor of Psychology and is an expert in his
field.

See you on another discussion.

Banjo.
You mean they support diversity mostly from an aesthetic point of view?
So a wider range of dining out options for middle class people and the visual spectacle of having people of other races living among us are the prime motivations for their support for MC?
I agree and the support for multiculturalism increases the further away people are from it's effects, a tradesman or labourer from the Western suburbs who is losing his livelihood to illegal workers who are paid $70 a day has a completely different viewpoint to a doctor's wife from Balwyn.

JoM,
You have nailed it precisely.

Trust you and others will contact Minister Morrison expressing your views on MC. I really think that the policy can be discarded with this government,

sonofgloin "we are all the same"

Try transplanting the heart of a Negroid into a Mongoloid.

"just the customs and language were changed to confuse the innocent."

But they are the basis of our entire existence!
An existence we must *share* with hundreds/thousands/millions of other people.
Being a "species"? That's almost irrelevant.

If you cannot speak with others or understand what they do, what kind of "community" can you have?
Community = common, not different.

There are over 6000 different cultures in the world.
We can share commonalities with some (those related or with mutual influences), but not *all* of them.

Jay Of Melbourne "support for multiculturalism increases the further away people are from it's effects."

All the green/cosmopolitan hipsters live nowhere near the recent arrivals.
They live in the cool spots that are almost completely Anglo.

There's plenty of ethnic restaurants though, so there *seems* to be a lot more diversity than there really is.

In reality, there's just a small number of "wogs", many now into their third or fourth native generation.
And some Asian students (temporary).

Dear jodeline,

You wrote;

“On the subject of 'a number of young Australians converting to the Muslim faith'. These young people have sought out a happier way to live their lives, 'peaceful happy and loving' is very appealing.”

I think there is a a real shift by our youth away from the typical 'booze up and chase a root' mentality that has been such a pervasive part of the 'Aussie' culture, one that many on here seem to be defending to the hilt.

“A rising number of Australian teenagers are choosing not to drink alcohol, new research shows. The findings of a survey of more than 2,500 young people published today in the medical journal Addiction shows half of Australian teens do not drink. Between 2001 and 2010 the number of teens aged 14 to 17 abstaining from alcohol rose from 33 per cent to more than 50 per cent, the research shows.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-10/more-australian-teenagers-avoiding-alcohol-study-shows/5379058

That there will be some who find refuge and meaning in spiritual leanings is I think a given and I can see the attraction of Islam for a certain percentage of those also as a given. I have stated many times on this forum that in my view this generation of younger people seem to have some really mature outlooks and their acceptance of difference puts many here to shame.

It is always the rednecks and racists among us who think multiculturalism means accepting criminal activities from amongst refugees, asylum seekers, and other new Australians they see as 'undesirable' to the 'white majority' (aka middle to old age white, predominantly Christian males).

I am with SteeleRedux in believing that the majority of our younger generation act far more maturely and accepting of diversity than many of the 'stuck in a '50's time warp' old boys!

Sorry Banjo, but I haven't heard from anyone in authority of an apparent push for FGM, polygamy or Sharia law being allowed in Australia at any time?
You just have to come to terms with the fact we are living in a far different world now and you either accept that, or continue to be frightened and bitter for no good reason.

Suse my dear we've had this discussion so many times yet it never seems to sink in that the "rednecks" and "Racists" are the ones who live side by side with the "wogs" and "reffos" and for the most part we get along alright. What we object to is the traitors and self hating Whites within our ethnic group building up minorities with praise they don't deserve and creating ethnic tension where none need exist by using the influence and financial clout of the upper and middle classes to create favoured groups, in groups and out groups if you will.
Your side are the ones still playing the old British colonial games, playing on tribal politics to further your own agendas, "The Man Who Would Be King", get my drift?
Anti Racism causes Racism, that's what it's intended to do, it sets up what's called a "progressive stack" with White males at the bottom and all the other groups sitting at varying levels, when you set out to disenfranchise people based on certain properties of their person a bitter conflict is inevitable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_stack

By many measures Australia is the most stable, united and
self-satisfied society on earth,
Foxy,
Yes & I for one want to keep it that way. Why so many want to jeopardise this just because of some fashionable compassion beats me. I guarantee you that the moment things go bad & go bad they will, this compassion will go out the window faster than a thought.
Yes, people need help but when that help is to the detriment of the host than I'm afraid all bets are off.
I came from Europe at a time when we had exactly the same scenario as Australia is having now. PC & unfiltered immigration are a guaranteed recipé for civil unrest. The loser is the host country.

I must address some of the issues Foxy raised.

Firstly she say no one condones FGM or underage marriage. Yet these are aspects of some cultures and she has claimed that in future Australians will have to be more receptive to ethnic change and more engaged with MC policies and approaches. So in the next decade we will have to make lawful activities that are now unlawful or simply ignore them as the politicians do now. More diversity, that Foxy desires, will further compromise our existing culture and erode our social standards.

True I want to stop further entry of those who have shown us they have only contempt for our society.

Multiculturalism is divisive. It was instigated to push the cultures of other countries and millions have been spent on this program. Australians were not consulted and Australians were excluded. In fact some cultures like the Scots and Irish were not considered 'ethnic' enough to obtain grants to promote their cultures. The whole concept of MC is to promote individual ethnic cultures, not bring them together. Migrants were told they could do just as they did in the 'old' country, which was mostly untrue.

Foxy says official MC has always been concerned about allieviating social tension, however people have observed an increase in ethnic variety together with much more anti social behaviour. Governments have turned a blind eye to this and to longer standing unlawful activities. Yet some of the alien activities have been going on for generations, with little government response.

For the sake of future Australians I trust we will finally be done with the foolish and flawed ideology of multiculturalism.

That's true Banjo, there are no representatives of the 1901-1975 nation on any multicultural body or advisory board.
We're not British colonists, we're not "Anglo Celts", "Anglo Saxons" or anything else, we're Australians, if we choose to interpret it so it's Latin for "people of the south land".
I think that's how we have to start looking at ourselves, we're the people of a nation under British rule, governed by a British elite and bourgeoisie who since 1975 have been colonising this country with people of other races in order to maintain their positions of power and influence through, as I said the tried and true, old school colonial tactics of divide and conquer.
So Foxy, Paul1405, Suse and all the other Anti whites are the occupation caste and we, the native born, White majority are the occupied people.

Foxy, "the author of the link I gave Dr Brock Bastian is a Professor of Psychology and is an expert in his field"

Maybe you could show provide some detail on his professorship and the field he is expert in.

You can't just seize upon something that has taken your fancy out of the TV show The Conversation, google about, link to a chapter from an online book and infer that it all 'proves' what you are saying. For starters, an academic could be talking about all sorts of things and not necessarily within his area of expertise.

So rather than giving others a chapter out of its context to read, what exactly are you claiming your source has proved for you and where is the proof? Provide the goods.

Dear Banjo,

Strewth mate, you might even start believing some of that rot.

Let's have a dash at another narrative.

Multiculturalism has been an astounding success in this country. We are one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world and the envy of other nations. For the most part the sectarian divides seem to dissipate when migrants make this country their home. For instance when the Christian sects in Northern Ireland were placing bombs in each others marketplaces that violence did not find fertile ground here despite large numbers of both communities living cheek and jowl.

Australians have been known for their open, expansive spirits showing regard for the common humanity of others and on the whole welcoming of new migrants, especially in contrast to some other nations. They have generally embraced multiculturalism, happy for others to make their lives here and enjoying the successes of those like Victor Chang who make important contributions to this country.

The have been times when Australians have had a chance at the ballot box to change their nation's course with parties like One Nation putting the case for ending multiculturalism. The majority chose not to take up the offer.

Young Australians have shown themselves to be entirely comfortable with our diverse society and treat those who attempt to create fear and division with derision.

We have a bright future in this country, made more certain because of the civilised, open way the majority of us exist in relative acceptance and harmony with our fellow countrymen. We should tackle any problems in our own way keep building on the strong successes of a policy that continues to work and will do so despite the naysayers.

SteeleReedux,
Yes, but we're not talking about that are we ? we're talking about the undesirables who are forcing their way thrrough the back door as part of an agenda & that agenda is to ruin everything so many good people have worked for. No-one, not even you could be so stupid & support that or could you ?

Dear Banjo,

SteelRedux has said it so beautifully that I have
nothing further to add.

otb,

I'm surprised at you.
You who feels the necessary compunction
to go through my entire posting record
to find anything you can to attempt to slur me with
(the only poster on this forum with this compulsion),
yet -
you're unable to Google Dr Brock Bastian's biography
on the web? His biography is there, including a
Bibliography of his writings.

Have a nice day.

When you read Steele's, Wobble's, and Foxy's posts re MC you get the impression you are reading some glossy tourist brochure advertising a plush resort--and in the case of Foxy's material that IS probably where it originated. MC is in practice is not the corn syrup fortified version they are trying to sell.

MC is hugely expense:
-- You have the duplication of publications, posters, message services into "community languages" Often because people have not been motivated to learn English. I know a close relative who went to govt funded English classes but treated them more like a social outing and never sought to employ English outside the class.
-- And what would the *special* broadcasting service SBS be without MC [The Australian Government contributes approximately 80% its funding ]

MC is hugely divisive:
Kenan Malik a British Muslim blames MC for the growth of extremism:
"It has only been over the past decade that radical Islam has found a hearing in Britain. Why? Partly because, in this post-ideological age, the idea that we can change society through politics has taken a battering. And partly because the idea that we should aspire to a common identity and set of values has been eroded in the name of multiculturalism."
http://www.kenanmalik.com/essays/times_bombings.html


MC leaves open the door for manipulation:
I have personally witnessed unscrupulous individuals use MC and its associated trappings to hold a major govt body to ransom.

Despite Steele's fudge that if we didn't like we could have voted for One Nation. It remains an inconvenient truth that Govt sponsored MC was imposed from above. No major party went to the electorate with a plan for govt sponsored MC. And when politicians talk about MC --in front of the wider community -- they couch things in motherhood statements like "tolerance" & "harmony" --and "festivals" (the type of hype that Foxy discounts but uses more than anyone else)

MC is trading on our prosperity -- but when the going gets tough the tribes will come out--actually, if you are living outside Steelesville or Foxyville the tribes are already out!

I hate to say this & perhaps it goes against everything OLO stands for but SteeleReedux & Foxy et al would have been silenced long ago for incitement of disunity in any other country. No wonder they call Australia the lucky country. Lucky for treason mongers that is.
If they're so hell-bent on ruining 200 years of hard work on the blood & sweat of good people then I'm afraid you're un-Australian.

WE ARE EACH THE Sum of our life experiences
iF YOUR WHITE..YOUR DECEIVING only yourself

yes fOR SURE WITH WHITENESS COMES THE CULTURAL CRINGE
BUT JESUS WASNT A WHITIE..HE WASNT A DARKIE..HE WAS Corpus christi

god didnt divide the wORLD...INTO BLACK AND WHITE..[fear/inferiority..did]..nor into sex/race creed or messenger..
earth is where wE SORT THE Steeple from the goats..the TARES FROM THE WHEAT/..THE GOOD FROM THE BAD

AND EACH HAS Their cHOSEN JOYS
AS WE CHOSE..TO enjoy or/to annoy..HERE

THUS AT death..we self sort by our works
murders go to murder/hell..[but they love it/just killing oNLY OTHER MURDER LOVERS as long as the want/they can only kill other murder LOVERS[AY THE Abstract level..its love of killing your self/THEY ONLY FIND OUT DEAD DONT MEAN DEAD..eventually the lovers OF KILLING MOVE ON

DEATH HAS NO FUN IF Your not dead
so they move on..to THE NEXT 'HEAVEN/[WE WOULD CALL HELL]..THAT OF THE LOvers of money hell of love of gold hell or ANY OF THE INFINITE other/thieving/hurting greed lust hells..

THAT FOR THOSE LOVING THAT sin are heavenly..even if only self realizing SELF-help complete saturation/24/7..hells.

thing is the racists LOVE THE RACIST HELLS
[WHERE A BLACK/THREAD/WHITE/THREAD/Both look grey
CAUSE Everyone is GREY..but to others..they look BLACK/white
SO They hate the 'opposing]...race..yet to the others LOOK that despised race.

Its called kismet
those you[on earth would accept/reject YOU/AND VISA VERSO
the grey racist hell is surely the saddest of alL..YET THEY SO LOVE THEIR RACISM'S..AND INSULT THEMSELVES SO SMUGLY..ITS ALMOST FUNNY

see racist HELL IS JUST RACISTS HATING [LOVING THE HATING..OF THEMSELVES..as them other selves[heck you will see the hoke/when you get there..when you feel the perfection of the bigotry you only SLIGHTLY REVEAL HERE/NOW..YOU AINT SEEN..[sorry felt]..NU-Thin..YET.

AHH MEN

REALIZE tHAt..WE BECOME THAT WE HATE
OR RATHER GOD..TAKES..that..we LOVE..[iE L.the/LOVING THE HATING]..and gives us ever more..of what WE LOVE..[LOVE/HATING..TOWEL-HEADS..YOU JOIN Them]..LOVE DOGS/BECOME ONE...BE Careful/what you love..or ask/FOR..by desiring..even despising des-ire-ing

DONT LOVE/THE HATING..you become/that you HATE
ONLY BECAUSE/YOU LOVE IT SO.

Since we, as a species walked out of Africa we have been evolving, physically, mentally and have changed our culture to suit our environment and knowledge.

As an individual I demand the right to be and do whatever I choose, providing that right does not affect in an adverse way any other individual.

Providing as an individual I do not act in a manner that is adverse to another individual, as a member of a community I demand I have the same rights, responsibilities, share and power as all other members of that community.

As an individual within a community I believe it is my duty to the best of my ability not to allow that community to circumvent any individuals, individual rights.

I grew up with many whose ancestors have been exposed a different environment and circumstance to my ancestors since leaving Africa. As a result they look different and act differently as they, as I am a product of our environment. To this day I value that experience and it is part of who I have become.

I don’t know why we continue to have this conversation about our differences. Most of the conversation is about a small aspect rather than the big picture. In many cases is an attempt to justify no change for selfish reasons, in the face of unstoppable continuous and unrelenting change.

Many of the reasons for no change that have been highlighted in this thread and include xenophobia, greed, power, religion, intolerance and ignorance.

Suck it up boys and girls; we as Aussies and for that matter as global citizens, have to learn to tolerate and embrace change as there is no stopping it.

I fear until we find extra-terrestrial life (or they find us) we will I believe be unable to identify ourselves as earthlings.

Foxy,

As is usual for me I will not be defending myself while you play the victim and sledge with personal attacks. You do it to others anyhow.

However I will point out that you over-use the ploy to avoid answering questions that arise from your posts. Yes, you do broken record stuff that has been challenged and dispelled by many others before.

Now what about returning to the subject?

Producer, another religious nut eh?
Everything you wrote in your post is completely wrong, there's no such thing as a "human Race", that's a religious concept and it's not backed by science, the similarities between different populations are superficial and there's a great deal of anthropomorphism on the part of Anti Whites such as yourself.
We are as groups significantly different from each other, in the way we think and therefore in the way we behave.
There's no evidence for adaptation to environment, there's no evidence for "evolution", the science points to mutations, interbreeding with other archaic humanoids and conscious selection of certain traits in sexual partners resulting in the differences between populations.
Read and learn, don't just blindly believe in dogma.

Producer tries on the old furphy that if you're not enamoured with MC you must be an old-stick-in-the-mud who doesn't like change.

Actually,one of Kenan Malik's (and others) criticisms of MC is that it funds and gives legitimacy to the most reactionary elements of foreign cultures. Thus in the UK, conservative elements of Islam were far more likely to be held as representative of Islam than more liberal elements.

Multicultural games & power plays are NOT synonymous with change.

Who's afraid of change, eh?

BRING ON THE SINGULARITY! --I say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XWXJDgbeP0

BRING IT ON!

Steele,
You, Foxy, Susie, Paul and others who claim to be multiculturalists are frauds. You only pretend to support multiculturalism. This is demonstrated in your lack of support for immigrants to practice all aspects of their culture. You like variety in eateries, children in colourful costumes, dragon parades and even beer festivals, but ignore other aspects like forced marriage, polygamy, child marriage and FGM taking place in our community. So you want pseudo multiculturalism that only allows for partial expression of immigrants original culture.

Then you have the hide to call for even greater diversity in ethnic arrivals, knowing full well our laws will not accept them to practice their culture to full extent. Then if you achieve that, I suggest you will ignore and turn a blind eye to any alien practices they may bring with them. There are many alien cultural practices.

This will lead to a lack of cohesion and violence. It is only the strong foundations of our Westminster society that has prevented much violence thus far, and Australian tolerance. We have seen violence between ethnic groups and some violence between Aussies and others. But you bloke do not care about this, you only want to be 'enriched' by a diversity of ethnics.

So keep pretending that Australia is multicultural.

spc..shows a clip..reGARDING THE SINGULARITY
[of course he means white/singularity]..dont you?

CAN YOU REALLY..imagINE A MACHINE SYNCHING YOU UP WITH THE REST OF THE SINGULARITY WHEN ..MOST THE WORLD AINT AS WHIte as you

signularity is one of them DELUSIONS,,played upon our elites
they will be tempted into 'joining'..into the singlularity..BECAUSE ITS THE in thing to do/..to join into/with all the 'names'..to BE IN THE SAME MIND.AS kylie minow...AND OBAMAISLAMBada/LINKED IN WITH THE king and the queen..OF ONE MIND...WITH GHANDI

gee your linked in with everyone
[but nOT THEM GOOPS NUKES AN DUKES

ITS INSTANT INSANITY..this delusional signularity
mUCH like putting your mind into one of them finger traps..
[THERE should be a few youhoo cLIPS ON THAT..watch a Few..THEn let the SINGULARITY SHOW HOW..YOU PUT ONE..IN/ON.OVER YOUR OWN MIND...YOU DONT OWN ANYMORE/NOR HOLD CONTROL OVER CAUSE THE HIVE COLLECTIVE NEEDS TO THink for you...be you by changing everything YOU DO..AND YOU TO BE GAAGAA HAppy that..IT NOW..SOON..will be..that..it is so.

ok off you go..HERE IS A PROGRAM/JUST FOR YOU
BASED ON ALL your previous thought..now frOZEN IN STASIS
AS WE SHEPPARD THE OLD YOU INto the new neo you..HERE TAKE THESE PUKKy ball full of nano virus..they will take over every specialised cell..that makes you ..YOU

WISH IS GRANTED.THEY ALREADY SET IT IN TRAIN
FIRST THEY TAKE away your mind..condition you/CHILD PERVERTS CALL IT SOME NAME LIKE GETTING YA Ready..but the media is doing it to ya as we speak

hate at command.just like we taUGHT YOU TO REACT/JUMP
this thread is so a traIN WRECK..NASTY REALLY..AND YOU DARE SPEAK OF COLLECtivity?`

ha..yeah right as if one hive will woRK..FOR LONG
you cant work..you dont eat..HIVE MIND EFFICIENCY/WE TRIED THAT YOU NATZIE..GO away you lot thinking the same delusions as the hollocaust deniers..that wasnt reaLLY ABOUT JEWS..BUT WETHER YOU COULD WORK

WORK MAKES FREE
hive singularity mentality..hilariously one eyed..[survival of the collective..[the master race]..THE ELITE THUNK THIS ONE UP FOR THE M ASSES.

OUG (from the bit I was able to translate) says:

<<spc..shows a clip..reGARDING THE SINGULARITY
[of course he means white/singularity]..dont you?>>

No, actually, I was hoping to have a deep blue metallic skin tone in my next incarnation.

OUG you are the best argument I'm seen for the need for AI enhanced consciousness.

we as Aussies and for that matter as global citizens, have to learn to tolerate and embrace change as there is no stopping it.
Producer,
that is far too general an observation although I accept that evolution is on-going. that's why I am at such a loss with the do-gooder brigade. On one hand they say we must do something about climate change yet on the other hand they say we must accept people who decide that we are a good source for supporting others. Now, realistically, we can't do a damn thing about the evolution of climate change but we can do something about the evolution of evil yet is it the latter they try to force us to accept.
Stop pretending that we are responsible to pick up the tab for what some morons do to their fellow morons on the other side of the planet.

Jay of Melbourne

The science

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

My view of religion

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5648

Individual – It’s been a while, sorry to hear about Belly’s departure.

I agree the concept is very general. To be otherwise is the go down one of the many dead end paths only to beat your head against the brick wall at the end. Talk soon

sorry to hear about Belly’s departure.
Producer,
I'm not sure how to interpret that.

otb,

There's no talking to you at any level.
Your mind is closed.
You twist things to suit
your agenda, slur people, and then attack them
for your made up slurs. I've dealt with people
of your calibre all of my life. I'll match my posting
record with yours any day. Belly left this forum
because of you.And that is a great loss to this forum.
Much as Belly asked you to lay off - you did not
have the grace to do even that. Well, guess what -
I'm not playing any kind of victim here - as you so
arrogantly infer. Don't flatter yourself.
For me to be offended by anything
you say - I would have to regard you as an equal,
and value your opinion. You have delusions of adequacy.
But that's all they are - delusions. The only hope for
this country lies in the fact that people like you
are getting older - and the future does not belong to you.
Yay!

cont'd ...

otb,

There I've now made your day and given you enough
ammunition to attack me with. I've given you the
response you tried so hard to provoke.
I hope that this will satisfy your quest for blood
at least for a few ongoing posts.

OTB <"As is usual for me I will not be defending myself while you play the victim and sledge with personal attacks. You do it to others anyhow."

Are you serious?
You think Foxy plays the victim and sledges with personal attacks?
Aren't you simply describing yourself?
I would suggest we could find so much sledging from you on this forum that we could fill a novel dedicated to examples of sledging...

Banjo <"Then you have the hide to call for even greater diversity in ethnic arrivals, knowing full well our laws will not accept them to practice their culture to full extent. Then if you achieve that, I suggest you will ignore and turn a blind eye to any alien practices they may bring with them."

Really?
Show me exactly where any of the people you mention
have written they want greater diversity in ethnic arrivals?
How would you see any of us ever accepting FGM or child marriages?
Have any of us ever indicated that?

You are fabricating rubbish on a grand scale Banjo.

Why not just come right out and say you don't want ANY non-white, non-Christian people coming to Australia and be done with it.
It would be the only honest statement you could come up with.

Dear Banjo,

Kindly don't you start doing an otb - and trying to
tell us what we think and feel. Because you, old
chap are clueless apparently. And that is such a
shame. I really expected more from you. You only see
problems as far as immigrants are concerned which is
unfortunate. Immigrants have been a part and parcel
of the making of this country. Yet you refuse to
recognise the contributions that they have made and
keep referring only to their food and folk costumes.
Immigrants have worked hard, paid taxes, contributed
economically, studied and earned professions, more
immigrants have sent their children to higher education
than the national average and have integrated very well
into our society. Yet you keep pointing out selective
problems and ignore other problems that our society
has also had. Problems of crime, alcohol-fuelled violence,
domestic violence, drug trafficking, drug abuse, gambling,
prostitution, pre-occupation with incest, child abuse,
illegitimacy, abortion, divorce, material possessions,
and individual self-fullfillment at the expense of
obligations to kin and community. So before you criticise
other cultures - you'd better clean up your own backyard
first before you preach to others.

If we look for problems - we'll undoubtedly always find
them. But how about looking at what unites us - instead
of what divides us? Nobody is perfect - and by that I'm
not saying that problems should be condoned or ignored.
On the contrary, we do have a framework of laws that we're
all obliged to live by in this country. But by isolating
a particular group of people because they may or may not
break one of our laws - is nonsense. If that had been
the case - Australia would not have been settled in the
first place. It was a penal colony after all. And with
that came a whole host of problems that over the years -
have been sorted out - one way or another.

Calling me and others a fraud - is not an intelligent way
to argue - and simply makes you look silly.

Individual – If my memory serves me right Belly and you had respect for each other’s point of view and carried on a civilised debate.

Please correct me if I’m wrong?

Foxy and Suseonline – Hear Hear

Susie,
You said, "Show me exactly where any of the people you mention
have written they want greater diversity in ethnic arrivals'?

Read my first post on this thread. The words quoted there are from Foxy and which prompted me to start this thread, to see if any multiculturalists would come out and suggest some alien practices we should consider allowing.

The fact that none are prepared to come right out and show what alien practices they think would be acceptable shows all are pseudo multiculturalists who do not really believe in MC. Why should not a genuine multiculturalist want all cultures to have complete freedom to express their culture. Multiculturalists are frauds to themselves, frauds to the migrants and frauds to all other Australians. Australia, from 1788, has been multi-racial but never multicultural.

As I have stated before, I care not about any persons ethnicity. They can be blue striped or polka dot for all I care. But if they show their contempt for our society by disregarding our laws and social standards, more of that group should be prevented from entering. We had very successful immigration up until MC was imposed in the 1970s.

We have gained absolutely nothing from the multiculturalism ideology.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/

Thanks Jay...that was worthwhile....but whether these differences effect our ability to socialize....probably not. We may be physically different but psyche and consciousness is the same. It is a conscious decision not to assimilate...not a physiological one.

Shockadelic>> Try transplanting the heart of a Negroid into a Mongoloid.<<

I couldn't even guess what you mean by that shocko....

I agree with the overall theme of your post, but as long as they become cohesive Aussies by working at embracing our lifestyle and traditions I accept their right to immigrate. Many who have entered this country in the past 40 years do not match my criteria. I would not have accepted them.

Mitochondrial "Eve" is a belief, not a fact, the story is far more complex than that and the "out of Africa" theory is as good as finished.
Modern Europeans, Asians and Aboriginals/Melanesians did not originate in Africa and there's evidence of significant migration from Asia to South Africa in very recent times, 1800-900 years ago:

http://www.nature.com/news/african-genes-tracked-back-1.13607

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7VdRKQuAa8#t=267

Foxy,
You either deliberately misconstrue what I post or you live in a pretend world where you believe what you want.

I have on many occasions, acknowledged the contribution migrants have made to Australia, that is obvious. What I object to strongly is that the imposing of multiculturalism has made any contribution.
The sole purpose of MC was, and is, to promote the original cultures of migrants. There has been no practical advantage for us in doing this. It has cost us heaps of wasted money and divided us into tribes. With ethnic tribes vying with each other for a portion of the grant monies from State and federal coffers.

You said I should be looking for what unites us. There is very little since MC was imposed as the emphasis has been on foreign cultures. Don't give me that 'Unity in diversity' rubbish, its a bigger lie than 'the cheque is in the mail'. I see nothing uniting the ethnic tribes let alone incorporating anglo Aussies.

You say we have a framework of laws that we all have to live by. But that is not correct. Some groups get away with flouting the laws because of cultural considerations, others receive reduced sentences because of their culture.

The whole concept of multiculturalism in Aus is fraudulent. We are multi-racial and never have been multicultural. Our forebears began with English laws and social standards of the time and later we developed our own based on the Westminster system. We have never had laws and separate social standards for different ethnicities. Those that push MC are frauds to themselves, frauds to the migrants and frauds to the rest of Australia.

We have enough cultural problems of our own without importing more diverse cultural issues for some to ignore.

Producer "as a member of a community..."

community = common.

What do Thai, Zulus and Egyptians have in common?

The *only* thing we have in common with *all* people is our species.
But we don't live as a species.

We live as families, tribes, peoples, nations.
Groups (not just individuals) *connected* by what they share in common (*including* genetic ancestry).

"Suck it up boys and girls"

No, you suck it up.
The human preference to live among one's own kind (people who share biological/cultural connections) is not going to go away, no matter how many pretty brochures you print.

If fact, you encourage this, with your support for minority ethnic communities!

"global citizens" "earthlings"

And pray tell, what do global citizens/earthlings wear, what language do they speak, what do they eat?

There is no universal "human" way.
The last time there was, we were picking fleas of each other in the caves of Africa.
We've come a long way, baby!

Suseonline "Show me exactly where any of the people you mention
have written they want greater diversity in ethnic arrivals?"

Greater diversity is part and parcel of a non-discriminatory policy, isn't it?
We can't exclude *any* type.

Foxy "you'd better clean up your own backyard first"

Does that mean we help our 700,000 unemployed and 100,000 homeless before we accept any more immigrants?

sonofgloin "Shockadelic>> Try transplanting the heart of a Negroid into a Mongoloid.<<
I couldn't even guess what you mean by that shocko...."

You claimed "we are all the same", with only superficial cultural differences. Not so.

The more different the genetics of a patient and donor, the more likelihood of rejection.
No organ transplant between races would ever be recommended by a specialist in that field.

"I accept their right to immigrate"

There is no such "right".

Foxy,
You mention laws that we have to live by,

Recently a muslim Imam illegally married a 12 year old girl to an older bloke and he was charged. He got off with a $500 fine. That is disgusting. Nothing more than a speeding fine.

Last week a former Afghan bloke, who had previous paedophile convictions, was before the court on charges of attempting to steal a little girl. The case was dismissed, with the magistrate saying in Afghanistan it would be considered normal. Apparently there it is normal for adult males to obtain children, particularly boys, for sex.

This is multiculturalism in action. You want more of these people here?

I believe all people in Australia are of a multicultural background. It's just that that many "Anglo Saxon" people (and I hate that term as there is no such country) - don't know enough, or anything at all about their family heritage.

Personally I am offended by the terms 'white' and 'black' to describe people. They both relate to printers. One is the paper used and the other is the ink. There is so much more to a person inside them as individuals than a printer cartridge or a piece of paper that so many people don't realise.

My Grandma (now passed away, had a Scottish background) and her first husband is of British background and her second husband is of a German background. My dad's side of the family has a French background. There are other parts of my family that I don't know about!

I also have two Aboriginal nephews, I volunteer with a refugee support group and I like eating at Chinatown each week.

I've always wondered if I was 'sent home' where would I go? I would have to be cut up into so many pieces. That is why I love Australia - but also because my 'original' family members - took the risk and had to 'sail' out to Australia. Yes 'Yuyutsu' they put their life on the line - but would I have wanted them to die? No - or I would not be here today.

By the way, I'm also vegetarian. I did this as part of a high school project. I don't support forcing people into going vegetarian, but I do support basic protection and standards for all - living in this country and worldwide - and those animals that are eaten, some basic humane standards.

Too many people complain on this website without seeing how great Australia is in real terms.

This is multiculturalism in action. You want more of these people here?
Banjo,
There are quite a few posters here who appear not to have a problem with that, hence their batting for MC. I'm not quite sure if they're extremely callous or extremely stupid.

I recall a few years ago when I went to Europe when a lot of people were complaining about MC being forced onto them by morons like the bureaucrats in the UN.

Jay of Melbourne

I’m a bit confused. Both the links you supplied acknowledge that modern humans migrated from Africa approximately 200,000 years ago.

What’s your point? I have no issue with the concept of reverse migration and interbreeding with other variants such as Neanderthals.

It could even be hypothesised that perhaps Neanderthal traits are displayed by some contributors to this thread. Perhaps there demise was bought about by bigotry and an inability to accept change and diversity.

Shocka

We all have common Mitochondrial DNA.

Even you have it, I’m sad to say.

We are connected now as we have never been before. Technology has given us the ability to converse with the world.

Bango

Last week an Australian bloke Brett Peter Cowan, who had previous paedophile convictions was locked up. Bugger that doesn’t count, he not an Afghan.

What nationality was the magistrate?

Hello Individual,

Can you tell people on this page - any part of your family history - which of course comes from another country? I was able to mention some and will proudly do so.

Nathan J,
I'm the only one in my family to move out of a beautiful valley in central Europe. I left when PC & MC started to rear their stupid & shady heads respectively.
Now I'm copping it again but this time there's nowhere to go.

Hello Individual,

When I decided to go vegetarian as a high school project (when I was at a private Christian school) my parents hated the idea, threw a plate a meat in front of me and demanded I eat it - in which I said no - and one of my parents worked in a leather factory and previously a meatworks.

When I've mentioned it - many people have found this very strange.

However, its the best thing I have ever done - and do you know what PC means for me? "Personal choice" and I love it in a free democratic country!

P.S I'm not going to put into a box by the media - I'm just going to be myself.

Look at the good things about yourself and be yourself - and try to work well with other people - there's lots of good people out there of all types.

Dear Banjo,

My nephew while studying in Lismore went to the
aid of a female student on campus. He was beaten
to a pulp by young thugs and ended up in a coma
and a plate in his head. He has been brain-
damaged and will never be normal
again. And his assailants were not Muslims.

You talk about Imamms marrying under-age girls.
Of course that should not be tolerated. And
we need stronger laws. But
what about the child sexual abuse by our churches
that is currently being looked into by The Royal
Commission. How much damage have they done over
the years - and condoned it, moving priests
from parish to parish to do the damage all over
again - with the churches protecting them.

We can always look for the evils in this world
amongst all groups. I'm not by any means trying to
excuse this kind of behaviour - simply asking for
a balance. Bad people do bad things - and of course
we need to have stronger laws. In the Cowan case -
with the murder of little Daniel Morecombe - I would
not have hesitated to give that creature the
death penalty. I can't even begin to imagine what his
parents and family have been through. And hopefully
this pedophile will never see the light outside of
prison ever.

cont'd ...

Dear Banjo,

You ask what "alien" practices should we accept in this
country? Therein lies the problem. Your entire premise
is wrong. I see things in a totally different light
to you - obviously. Immigration has always been an
important element in Australia's nation building.
We have integrated millions of people from different
backgrounds from over 200 countries and we have drawn
from them to build a successful nation. Just to remind
you that more than 100,000 migrants from 30 different
countries worked on the Snowy Mountains Scheme, a huge
hydro-electric power generating project in the
Australian Alps. The project took 25 years to complete
from 1949 until 1974.

I look upon immigrants as people who want to come to this
country to make a contribution. And I don't view anybody
as an "alien," because I believe that our civic values
include respect for the equal worth, dignity and freedom
of every individual, religious tolerance and so on.
I believe in living out these values in everyday life,
and in local communities. I believe we need programs
to educate newcomers for an overriding commitment to
Australia. And the different experiences we bring with
our different backgrounds and cultures can all serve to
enrich that shared commitment. As I've stated previously
so many times - Australia's different cultures are a
strength which makes for a dynamic society - but of course
this must be within a framework of our laws - all
Australians have the right to express their culture and
beliefs.

I can't make it any clearer for you.

Hi there FOXY...

Bad people do bad thing all the time ! Whether or not they're Christian, Muslims or whoever. Evil has no boundaries, nor does Good.

I don't think the issue under discussion herein, is a question of good or bad. Rather whether or not Islam is compatible with Christianity or to be more precise, is it compatible with our unique Australian way of life, as we now know it ?

It's my profound belief, the recent Islamic arrivals, post the War in 'The Lebanon', ARE NOT compatible nor reconcilable even congruent with the Australian way of life, or our culture as it exists here today.

Of course, there are always exceptions to this. I have no doubt whatsoever, there are Muslim Men and Women who lead highly productive and contributory lifestyles here in Australia. Yet still faithfully practice their religion, together with their own particular mores and customs, all without conflicting with any other Faiths or Denominations, or with any other opposing Nationalities.

Dear Nathan,

<<Yes 'Yuyutsu' they put their life on the line - but would I have wanted them to die? No - or I would not be here today.>>

I am glad your family members made it and that you are here now among us.

Let me assure you that I don't like it when someone drowns. It's only that if we start actively rescuing everyone who comes, then there will be hundreds of millions of them coming and we cannot afford it. Let me also assure you that my approach has nothing to do with race and/or culture, but only with the sheer numbers.

The government's alternative (including previous governments) is to incarcerate people, even families with children - this I find unacceptable, even if it happens to work. Obviously not everyone can come, or we would be packed here like sardines, so I rather have nature itself and its great ocean do what's needed, rather than my own hands.

I have stopped commenting on this thread as I find it intimidating. I am not surprised that Belly sadly left - I will miss him. I do believe or at least hope that the Nazi attitudes expressed by some members here is not representative of greater Australia.

Foxy,
The Imam referred to apparently was an authorized marriage celebrant. This being so he would be well aware of our laws regarding marriage. Such a light penalty is an insult to our society. Hope there are other grounds for his deportation.

I relation to the other matters, we have more than enough social and cultural issues without importing more from people whose grouping has shown they have nothing but contempt for us.

I have always advocated the death penalty for heinous crimes where there is no doubt about guilt. Anita Coby, Mrs Morse, Colins and another girl near the Vic border, on the coast, all come to mind, and there are more. The death penalty will not bring Daniel Morecombe back but it does guarantee no repeat offences.

Again you get onto the contribution of migrants, which I have acknowledged. I was a kid when the SM scheme was being built. We were well aware of it and touring the area I can really appreciate and marvel at how they did it.

With the overwhelming success of the post war immigration, there was no need for the trendy multicultural ideology that was imposed. We had education and language programs in existence. No, MC was to promote ethnic cultures without any gain for us and all governments have continued it. I think they feel they are courting the ethnic vote, but many older migrants I know are resentful of the migrants today. No similarity to the conditions of your parents era.

I do not agree with your talk of 'diversity' and 'enrichment', I need to see practical gains for all the funds spent and that is not there.
I still think we should not burden ourselves more by allowing in those groups that have shown us they resent our society and believe their culture overrides our social norms. Even Sydney soccer brought out ethnic violence and team names had to be changed.

I do not mind us being multi-racial, but multicultural never, we have too much diversity now.

Foxy (to Banjo), "I can't make it any clearer for you"

Maybe you should help Banjo to understand the Left cultural elitism, and multiculturalism as social activism.

After all, when the 'progressive' 'do-gooders' get going it doesn't take long for their infamous Left Cultural Cringe as in their cringing dislike of 'nullaboring' Australians to come out, and their enduring revulsion for 'whites' as in the British exclusively, apparently.

Why isn't multiculturalism as social activism being discussed? It is the elephant in the room.

<<>.we have too much diversity now.>>

that sums up the fears..of the NIGHTY/rightIES
NOW YOU MUST KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT RIGHT WHINGERS
THEY THINK..ONLY THEY CAN BE RIGHT..that Anything NOT RIGHT/OF RIGHT..IS WRONG

AS JESUS SAID
yOU CANT ARGUE/WITH THIS TYPE OF DEMON
THEY DONT EVEN REALIZE they are possessed

please see/THEY EXIST ONLY TO LIMIT OTHERS EXISTENCE
its their way..or the water WAY

you cant feed trolls by replying them..cause they are here to DIVIDE US/feeding them only allows them opportunities to fart out MORE C rap

YOU MUST NOT Give them water..nor feed them..trolls are there to reveal themselves..AND IGNORING THEM IS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THEIR GAME PROPERLY..the LOVE BEING noticed..it GIVES THEM A BASIS FROM WHICH TO FEED THEIR NEED TO HATE OTHER..YOU CAN TALK/ABOUT THEM..[as if they went there]..but that gets risky..as you still empower the demons that so haunt these poor treacherous CRITTERS

IT FEELS SAD..and THus..WE MUST PITY THEM THEIR MISERABLE LIVES
that from the days of their miserable birth/till their death/They live wITH A MIND IN HELL..IN A BODY THEY DISOWN..BY THEir own wordS

LEST WE FORGET HITLER WASNT BLUE EYED ARIAN
AND NEITHER ARE THESE WANT-TO/BE ARIANS..its not their fault they have race ENVY..[Lacking their OWN 'PURE' ID

LEST WE FOIRGET THE GRAND MUFTI OF THE KKK/WAS A BLACKIE 3/4
but in his EYES[AT NIGHT]..BY BURNING CROSSES [IN WHICH THEY DELIGHT]..[near as much as they get off earning their hoody frocks]

anyhow..its a thing linked back to wanting a woman/usually their sister mother or cousin..but this woman being repulsed by them..so they love piling it on...OTHER ones they see as BETTER/PURE/BREED THAN THEY.

SO/dont feed the inbred trolls
THEY WILL THINK YOUR ONE OF THEM

2B CTD

its the inbreeding...IM TOLD..they need do to remain pure
ANYTHIng that dont lOOK REMOTLY RELATED..THey inspect..BUT REJECT
ITS MUCH RELATED TO THAT CLOSET gay thing..ok i cant be this i will hate that

its sad..BUT WE CANT HELP THEM
THEY GOT MOTHER ISSUES..OR..POPPY ISSUES
And we arnt close enough related to them to get near their ears to help tHEM HEAR..its inbreeding..nough said..

the ..poor basturds..theY MISS THEIR CARAVAN/MOBILE HOMO..and wearing their mummies TIGHT thongs..OVER THEIR HEADS..THEY loose bLOOD FLOW TO THE BRAIN...IT MAKES THEM AGRO/FRUSTRATED..[I EVEN SEEN ONE POOR RACIST MATING with a busted THONG..no not even prayer can help these inbreeds..

THUS WE GIVE THEM THEIR OWN FORUMS/./IT GIVES THEM COMFORT/BEING WITH THEIR OWN..Occasionally one gets out..BUT IGNORE THEM/..AND THEY SOON GO..OFF TO SEARCH OUT THEIR OWN...

[CAUTION/Never touch their thongs..IT DRIVES EM NUTS]..
NO ONE CAN Touch mummy'S THONG YA NONG..but them.

there you go...you poor inbred..I..set you free
off you go..Give your love to mummy
daddy be homo soon

Banjo,
The Imam who married the underage girl pleaded guilty and is currently in the Villawood centre awaiting deportation to Lebanon.
Producer,
There you go, QED I direct you toward a theory which challenges your religious beliefs and you start calling me names, "Burn the witch!", "Stone the heretic!", "Behead all those who insult Islam!"
If humanoid beings indeed strode out of Africa 200,000 years ago they didn't look like you or I:
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/27/science/la-sci-sn-ancient-european-dark-skin-blue-eyes-dna-20140127
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140127150942-la-brana-series-story-top.jpg
As for using "Neanderthal" as an insult what if some Europeans and Asians are much more heavily Neanderthal than others? Are you suggesting that a person's genes can influence the way they think?
Gotcha!

@Foxy & co

<<You talk about Imamms marrying under-age girls.
Of course that should not be tolerated. And
we need stronger laws>>

There is no point in having stronger laws if they are not enforced. See the below comment from Dr Tanveer Ahmed (hardly one on OUG's blue eyed Aryans!)

"I have seen such differences, however, when police are asked to intervene in domestic violence cases where ethnic groups such as South Asian or Middle Eastern couples are involved. Police often keep greater distance in such cases, some believing that cultural factors are at play and the families and communities should be left to their own devices. We do not officially have parallel laws for other groups, but variable enforcement can have the same effect."
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12700&page=0

Now I don't the law enforcement authorities so much, MC (and its allied isms) has intimated the police & many other govt authorities.

A friend of mine who was involved in delivery charity parcels reported that he observed a huge number of cases where the marriage laws of Oz
were being openly flouted.

Dear Banjo,

Thank You for this discussion.
I do appreciate your point of view, and your fears.
However, as I've stated previously - we can only go
by our own experiences and our values. I take people
as I find them and try not to pre-judge them. I hate
assigning labels to people - because that does not
allow for individual differences. And we are all different.
And individuals. You paint such a bleak picture for our
future - yet our history contradicts that - we are different
from the countries of Europe and elsewhere - probably
because of the government policies that have been implemented
in the past - to ensure social cohesion. Hopefully this
will continue. Making people feel welcome, discussion,
and above all actually contact with each other may help
towards a better understanding and a better future for us all.
And of course all this should be done within a framework
of laws. The numbers that we do take in - are not large,
and I really do believe that our influences especially on the
younger generations will have a greater effect - than they will
on us in this country. People usually take on the experiences
of their host country. But whatever we think - all we can
try to do is try to make it better for future generations.

The key to prejudice is that it is always rooted in
generalisations and so ignores the differences among individuals.
Therefore someone who is prejudiced against Leftists/
Progressives, Socialists, et cetera - will tend to
have a negative attitude toward any individual that they suspect
to be one of those ilk, in the
belief that all of them share the same supposed traits.
That all Labor supporters for example are "Fabians" and
therefore somehow bad. These are ignorant people and they
have closed minds. Best left alone. They can contribute
nothing of any value - except to continually try and stir.
You I can see do not belong to that group - and you have
risen in my estimation due to your last well-reasoned post.

OUG,
I don't try to unscramble your post as I have more constructive things to do. However I did catch the opening line of <we have too much diversity now> which quotes myself.

True, and the diversity we could do without is those groups that have no respect for our laws or social norms.

I have no time for those that we have given a home and refuge to and they thumb their noses at us. We would be far better off to cross them off the list of importees. I care not what colour or creed they are.

Banjo,
Here's another angle of attack.
The idea that all people are equal is outdated and anachronistic and had fallen out of favour with intelligent people by the mid 19th century, only the rise of that century's great religion named Socialism kept such foolish ideas alive.
Now that the religion of Socialism has waned the sensible, rational and intelligent views on race are again coming to the fore and with instant communications inegalitarian and illiberal ideas are spreading too quickly to be countered by the few remaining "equality" hold outs and religious nuts.
It's impossible to spread lies or Dogma on the internet, especially in the English language that's why the White "Bleeding Hearts" have lost their grip on the population, science is against them, popular opinion is against them and the "rainbow Society" outside our front doors, which we can all see with our own eyes also refutes the idea that "All men are created equal".

Banjo,
There is another movement addressing the post-postmodern realities of forced multiracialism, "Interculturalism":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interculturalism
The problem with that is that it's being run, a least in my area by the same old clique of White baby boomers and White middle class women and it's the same agenda, Gentrification and ethnic/class cleansing of working class, migrant heavy suburbs.
I saw the same effect in St Kilda in the 1980's,Fitzroy in the 1990's and Northcote in the 2000's, when the intercultural/Arts/Human rights bandwagon rolls into town prepare to see the brown faces and idiosyncratic ethnic customs visible in your neighbourhood disappearing to be replaced by scrubbed pink faces, "funky" coffee shops and regular Arts festivals.

Dear Jay,

You need to try to overcome your
judgemental thought forms because they can become
the pervasive cancers that will threaten both
your own well-being and also destroy society.
The source of the problems that you see is in your
own head. As it would not be appropriate to ignore
"just a little" cancer in the body, so it is not
appropriate for us to ignore "just a little" judgemental
thinking such as yours. A little cancer unchecked, turns
into a monstrous killer.

Go back and re-read your posts. And then tell us you're
proud of what you wrote.

Your all connected with the same blood lines...what was the question again:)

Kat

Foxy, I have nothing to be proud of and nothing to be not proud of, I merely relay information, and I'm in agreement with the vast majority of people around the world, your religious beliefs are held by a tiny, privileged minority of well off White people.
No intelligent, honest and rational person accepts the premise of "equality", as Darwin said:
“When two races of men meet, they act precisely like two species of animals. They fight, eat each other, bring diseases to each other etc., but then comes the most deadly struggle, namely which have the best fitted organisation, or instincts (i.e., intellect in man) to gain the day.”
Or as the chap in the video I posted previously observed of Muslim immigrants, "They're just not impressed by our tolerance and the fact that we try to be nice to them, they see it as weakness".
You're siding with the weak, I'm siding with the strong strong, tomorrow's Australia belongs to the Jihadists, Third world Christian fundamentalists and the White Nationalists. We'll sell you out to the barbarians just like you sold us out and the ideas of "equality" and "the fair go" will be ploughed under once and for all.

Dear Jay,

A society is ultimately judged by how it treats
its most vunerable. And as history has shown us -
the so called "strong" eventually do get defeated.
Here's something I've dug up about the "strong."

"Somebody in France wanted to put Voltaire in jail.
Somebody in Franco's Spain sent Lorca, their
greatest poet to death before a firing squad. Somebody in
Germany under Hitler burned the books, drove Thomas
Mann into exile, and led their Jewish scholars to the
gas chamber. Somebody in Greece long ago gave Socrates the
hemlock to drink, Somebody in the USSR banned Solzhenitsyn
and Pasternak. Somebody at Golgotha erected a cross and
somebody drove nails into the hands of Christ. Somebody spat
on his garments. NO ONE REMEMBERS THEIR NAMES."

(Milton Meltzer).

So much for the "strong."

There is nothing in the OP to suggest that the poster was against all immigration. Likewise, the OP was not about refusing genuine refugees, that is another matter.

So there is no call at all to haul ass down some gully admonishing all for presumed poor treatment of the most vulnerable. That is just another diversion.

Rather the OP seems to be posing the question, should the goal be diversity as it seems to be, which is an entirely different to what the population understands to be the legitimate aims and purposes of immigration policy.

There are those who were always dissatisfied with Australian culture and traditions. They are not do-gooders, but people whochoose to deliberately discriminate against the British inheritance and even the 'whites' themselves where those 'whites' are assumed to be British. There has always been a cultural elitism of the Left that is seen rightly as a cultural cringe, a genuflection and preference to and for all and anything that is not recognisably Australian, especially where links can be drawn with the British inheritance.

There is also the other serious matter that has not been raised with the electorate, which is the promotion of educational multiculturalism. The extension of this policy as seen in the US for example, is the encouragement of any school child to recognise himself by his assumed cultural origin first, as in African-American.

My earlier post, blown off by Foxy, refers,

onthebeach, Sunday, 13 April 2014 10:42:27 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6333&page=20

Why not discuss the elephant in the room since it was raised by the OP?

Foxy,
Well there you go, Milton Meltzer is your point of rebuttal and you wonder why we mock you!
Why not throw in some references to other "Anti Racist", White hating fraudsters too? What about some Jared Diamond,Tim Wise or Stephen Jay Gould hmmm?
This is the fear we have over you and your kind Foxy, you don't think like normal, healthy White people, you take all your instruction from people of other races and define yourself by their way of seeing the world.
So yeah, we functioning, self aware White people don't want you and your kind/caste/sect..whatever having any influence over immigration policy nor any other public policy for that matter, you're not fit and proper persons for administrative positions.
Here, I can quote chapter and verse too:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chrysostom_adversus_judaeos_01_homily1.htm
(7) The Jews frighten you as if you were little children, and you do not see it. Many wicked slaves show frightening and ridiculous masks to youngsters-the masks are not frightening by their nature, but they seem so to the children's simple minds-and in this way they stir up many a laugh. This is the way the Jews frighten the simpler-minded Christians with the bugbears and hobgoblins of their shrines. Yet how could their ridiculous and disgraceful synagogues frighten you? Are they not the shrines of men who have been rejected, dishonored, and condemned?

Dear Jay,

You certainly have made your position very clear.
And your words speak volumes. They say more about
you than they do about me.

However, gratefully you are a very small minority
who won't even make a dent in the general scheme
of things.
Thankfully most Australians will assign you to the
dust pile of history - where you rightfully belong.

otb,

When you begin to interact on this forum as a decent human being
I shall be happy to inter-act with you. However until
then, I'm simply not interested in your rants.
Feel free however to enjoy your gruntlehood. That's the price
we pay for freedom of speech.

Good afternoon to you SPQR...

I was reading through your most recent post, where you've quoted a Dr Tanveer AHMED as saying how police are somewhat disinclined to either 'act' or intervene in disputes arising out of domestic violence issues, involving people from Middle Eastern or South Asian cultures ?

Rather they tend to leave it to the quarrelling couple to sort it out themselves. In preference to police overtly getting involved, and perhaps run the risk of the whole episode rapidly degenerating and become quite violent ?

SPQR, the quotation is pretty accurate in my view. The coppers have enough problems dealing with ordinary criminal matters, rather then trying to sort through all these intractable and potentially violent, alien domestics ! Rarely will either of the two belligerent protagonists speak in English (even if they can!), usually they communicate (shout!) in their native tongue ! Therefore, the poor ol' coppers have no idea what's been said, therefore it all devolves into a very ugly mess at the bottom of the toilet. With neither winner or loser, and with another 'long' nail in the coffin of multiculturalism !

NathanJ "I am offended by the terms 'white' and 'black'"

The terms are irrelevant. They're not even accurate.

"White" people are mostly pinky-cream and "Blacks" have light-coloured palms and soles.

But these are the terms people have invented and understand.

We could call Europeans "Ziggers" and non-Europeans "Zaggers" if you like.

So, I want immigration restricted to Ziggers, as they are related/similar to us, and therefore more easily adapt and cause a minimum of social disruption, unlike Zaggers.

Happy now?

Gramps: Scottish, British, German, French.

White, White, White, White.

"I've always wondered if I was 'sent home' where would I go?"

You're already there.

Though you may be cut up into pieces by your exotic neighbours when The War starts.

Producer, "common Mitochondrial DNA."

Hundreds of thousands of years have passed since then.

We exist *now* and *our* people have the same right to perpetuate our contemporary biocultural distinctiveness as the Thai, Zulus and Egyptians do.

"Technology has given us the ability to converse with the world."

Then you don't need to move millions of people from one side of the planet to the other.

Just log on and indulge.
Nobody needs to move an inch.

one under god "its not their fault they have race ENVY..[Lacking their OWN 'PURE' ID"

I have no problem with White Australians being a mongrel/hybrid.

We have such a diverse range of faces and features (hair/eyes/build).
There is no "typical" Australian morphology.
But we are a mix of peoples who were *related* in the first place!

We're like a mongrel hound.
Descended from many types of hound, but *only* hounds, not all dogs.

Foxy "A society is ultimately judged by how it treats its most vulnerable."

They're only vulnerable because they've been transplanted from the society where they belonged to a society which they have little or no connection to.

Stop doing that and Voila!, no more artificially introduced Vulnerables.

onthebeach "preference to and for all and anything that is not recognisably Australian"

This isn't just an "Australian/British" phenomenon though.
The same anti-White mentality is present in America, France, Scandinavia...
An international toxin.

"Shockadelic>> Try transplanting the heart of a Negroid into a Mongoloid.<<
sonofgloin >>I couldn't even guess what you mean by that shocko...."<<

Shockadelic>> The more different the genetics of a patient and donor, the more likelihood of rejection.
No organ transplant between races would ever be recommended by a specialist in that field.<<

Shocko the best transplant options come from direct blood relatives, the closer the better. Caucasian on Caucasian transplants need to have in place ongoing rejection minimisation protocols...so white on white isn’t the same tiger.

sonofgloin >>"I accept their right to immigrate"<<

Shockadelic>> There is no such "right".<<

Of course they have a right to apply for immigration....we have a set immigration program in place. The problem is not that anti western applicants with an anti Judeo Christian ethos apply for immigration......the problem is that the politically correct driven governments and public servants let them in

sonofgloin "Shocko the best transplant options come from direct blood relatives"

How is this contradicting me?
Aren't your blood relatives the same race?

A Zulu and a Thai are not going to be direct blood relatives, are they?

You're right and I'm right.
The *closer* the match the better.
So a White donor is better than a Black or Asian donor, if you're White (which most of our population is).

"Of course they have a right to apply for immigration"

You didn't say "apply" and neither did I.

I can apply for university admission. I don't have a "right" to admission.
I can apply for a bank loan. I don't have a "right" to one.

I'm so sick of this petty nitpicking.

Austrian MP Ewald Stadler speaks about Muslim immigration in response to comments made by the Turkish ambassador:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2-e6_Bdzyc
For those who didn't know BZÖ is a right wing Liberal/Conservative party, they previously held several seats in the Austrian parliament but were swept out in 2013.
I post it not in support of that strand of politics, which I regard as somewhat worse than the others but to direct attention to the point he makes about the reputation of Islam.
Why Foxy, Suse, Producer et al do you pay any heed to the words of those speaking in defense of ethnic groups who are utterly disreputable and whose actions surely speak for themselves?
Why are you so scared of thinking for yourselves that you outsource it to people of other ethnic groups and adopt their self serving opinions and attitudes as your own?
There's something we call "Third Culture", that is the observation that Whites who've either spent a lot of time overseas or among non Whites will develop as a coping mechanism a third culture, a sort of Stockholm syndrome if you will.
The same is true of White people who've been educated in universities where non White Anti Racist activism has replaced European philosophy as the core of the Arts syllabus. In order to cope and in order to receive his licence to practice the Liberal Arts (diploma) the student has to develop a third culture or third persona which straddles his ancestral world and the world of the ethnic minorities.
Do you really wonder why people who've not attended an academy and thus who've never been duly deputised to pass off the self serving ideas of other ethnic groups as "popular opinion" see you as traitors, or as little more than aliens in your own right?

accommodation leads to enslavement
HOW COME OUR MEDIA NEVER TOLD US ABOUT Stopping accommodating intimidation..REFLECTED BY PEOPLE Running away from home/

why they are running.
the reason is bigger that the eurika stockade or mosus leaving the desert/or fiddling while rome burnS

HISTORY REPEATS..THIS is a key point of the cycle
IT Might just have united the SHEEP TO LIE WITH THE WAR LAMB

IM JUST FEEDING ON THE timing of it
HOPE YOU FIND THE Time to listen to it[or if not spead it around]...EVENTS DONT GEt bigger than thIS/

WAR IS OVER..PEACE is here..if you want to.

http://rss.infowars.com/20140414_Mon_Alex.mp3

ps let it grow*

Yuyutsu interestingly plays through the levels the usual Leftist travels when discussing same issues.

NOTE for FUTURE the way the usual LETIST pretends their way to some "moral directive" they conclude into being.

He begins by agreeing that all forms of abuse and oppression etc. such as “forced marriage”, “underage marriage”, “violence”
is wrong and should be fixed.

But then in an ‘existential Wonderland" Yuyutsu jumps to insert some arbitrary clause or qualifier when he now asks -

“But what if the girl genuinely doesn't want to be helped?”. . . meaning that in such cases we should NOT interfere.

So completely undoing any grip Yuyutsu intended to have as to any INITIAL universal moral premises the inserted 'qualifier' renders any occurrences of oppression might be BAD and WRONG but ONLY IF the alleged Victim themselves is “asking for help”.

. . . which Yuyutsu WARNS such that if . . . “government is allowed to interfere and "help" those who never sought its help in the first place and who were not even likely to consider requesting its help if freely-offered” will result in a “slippery-slope”.

The final conclusion from these non-logically connections -

. . . “Today it's the sins of those Lebanese" . . . "but tomorrow it would be your own sins that are banned" . . . and . . .

. . . as yet another further plunder into logical absurdity Yuyutsu makes dangerous light of serious crimes and actions by manufacturing for his conclusion's support the 'non-existent truths' that (Yuyutsu claims) things like gender oppression or apartheid to non-ethical actions like “nose-picking” and “obesity” which now are conflated into a general species of “sins” in Yuyutsu's conceptions.

I can show you how in fact this path leads to same as morally perverse and selfish criminals.

SIDE Note - Usually the Leftist will protect that conclusion and untrue facts of ontology in similarity of kinds, such that ANY kind of Vicious and extreme method of fear tactics by "guilting" and "ridiculing" anyone who opposes.

Dear Jottikii,

Nothing new about the Left accusing me of being a Rightist and the Right accusing me of being a Leftist - I care for neither anyway.

Yes, I said that oppression is bad and wrong. I stand by it.

I did not say however (as you claim) that this automatically gives you a right to fix it.

Instead, I analysed carefully when you have a right to fix the situation and when you don't.

I also didn't say that underage marriage is necessarily a form of oppression, what I said is that it often is, but not necessarily always.

If you believe (rightly or wrongly) that marrying too young is bad for you, hence it is your right, if not even duty, to forcibly stop young girls from marrying - then what on earth stops me from believing (rightly or wrongly) that since nose-picking is bad for you, I have a right, if not even duty, to forcibly place hand-cuffs on you to prevent you from picking your nose?

Yuyutsu,
Do you really consider that a 12 yo girl is mature enough to make a decision about marriage? Isn't that what parents are for, to make decisions for kids until they are mature to make their own decisions.
The law is there to protect kids from themselves and irresponsible parents.

Just how young would you allow girls to make decisions about sexual activity and marriage?

You also said, earlier, that polygamy has no victim, so apparently should be allowed.

It is a struggle for most young couples, so what about the situation where a wife assists her husband to get established financially and finally, after years of hard work they are more comfortable and the husband decides to get a 'new model' wife. I say the first wife is a victim. Then when he karks it she may have to share his estate with the new wife. I do not think that is very fair.

Yuyutsu, how is nose-picking bad for you?

If nose-picking or eating too much is bad for you, you are doing it to yourself.

But does a 8-year old girl really have the maturity to make decisions like getting married?

Most people would agree people who are *capable* of making decisions should have the right to make them.

The question here is: are children capable of such responsibility?

Banjo, pre-nuptial agreements would address any such questions.

And the wives married the husband, not each other, so neither has any entitlement or responsibility regarding the other wife.

Dear Banjo,

I am happy to relate to questions of morality, good and evil, but before we start let me make clear that morality and law are two different things: the state is NOT a guardian of morality and has no authority to do so.

Any legitimate authority of the state comes from people who authorise that state to act in their name - specifically to protect them from violence and fraud by others. A state has therefore no other legitimate powers, other than the sum of legitimate powers which individuals invested in it. If we accept that it is legitimate for individuals to interfere with others in self-defence, then this allows the state to protect those who sought its protection (explicitly or implicitly), but not others who didn't.

So much about the law - now off to the realm of morality:

'Maturity' is a relative term and one must ask "mature for what?".
Science tells us for example that a human child is ready to survive alone in nature from about the age of 8.
Modern and especially Western society is very complex and unnatural, so one is not ready to function independently within it by the age of 8. Instead, one requires about 10 more years of education/indoctrination to be considered 'mature'. Even then we find people in society who are still immature at the age of 80!

For a family, therefore, who wishes to integrate into modern Western society, marrying and having a baby at 12 is inappropriate, mainly because it would interfere with the girls' studies and job-prospects. However, one should not arbitrarily assume that people wish to integrate into their society unless those people actually expressed that desire. If one for example (either parent or child) asked the state for welfare-payments or schooling, then that constitutes an implicit desire to integrate - but room must always be left for those families who do not wish to have anything to do with modern Western society and/or the states it created.

(continued...)

(...continued)

So maturity age, Banjo, depends on culture and aspirations, as well as individual circumstances. As each case is different for every child, you should leave this to parents who represent their children best.

Nevertheless, should a child of any age be able to express clearly their informed and unambiguous wish to come off the control of their parents and come under state-protection instead, then the state should be able to grant his/her wish and take over.

Regrading polygamy,

The situation you describe is an abuse of a polygamous relationship: abuse, unfortunately can occur in any kind of relationship. Husbands cheat on wives, wives cheat on husbands and both can bequeath everything to their neighbour's dog - but all that can be done with or without being married. None of it, of course, is moral.

Dear Shockadelic,

<<Yuyutsu, how is nose-picking bad for you?>>

The point is not whether nose-picking is bad for you or whether I personally believe so, but that there are many people around (including doctors) who sincerely believe that nose-picking is bad.

If I don't want to have those people enforcing their belief that nose-picking is wrong on me, then I should not enforce on others my own beliefs of what I happen to think is wrong.

<<But does a 8-year old girl really have the maturity to make decisions like getting married?>>

Wouldn't you agree that a boy of 8.5 with a degree of self-control as in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibNeGq4Ygp4 is more mature than most of us? I would trust him behind the wheel more than most 21-year olds!

<<The question here is: are children capable of such responsibility?>>

Some are, some are not.

What I am saying is that in the case where a whole family - both parents and their child, are in agreement, then their combined power as a united family should be at least as good as that of any adult. Nothing less than that can protect children from the tyranny of anti-nose-pickers.

Yuyutsu "but room must always be left for those families who do not wish to have anything to do with modern Western society"

Then why are they here?

You don't move half way around the planet to *not* be part of another society.

"combined power as a united family"

And what of the combined power of a united people?

If you give validity to a family, why not a neighbourhood, a city, a regional/state population, a nation?

There have been laws for ages about marriage and the age at which you can agree to it.
Have you heard any outcry from the Australian people about it?

"the tyranny of anti-nose-pickers."

Your example is fatuous.
No such "tyranny" would ever exist.

You'd need first to get the media talking about it, then get a petition signed by thousands and sent to parliament.

Then you'd need to get a majority of MPs to agree that not only is nose-picking undesirable, but that it should be *illegal*.

Our laws are not a reflection of this or that individual's preferences.
They are decided by large groups of people (parliaments) elected by and expected to serve an even larger group, the nation or its regional divisions.

That is why we generally don't see such ridiculous laws being made.

Where controversial laws are made, there is no end to the public response, so they tend to get repealed/amended pretty quick (the members and party responsible want to get reelected).
At least once a case enters the public awareness (e.g. Andrew Bolt).

Yuyutsu,
If you believe the crap you wrote in your last two posts, you are a nutter.

Have a look at some figures relating to deaths of young females in third world countries that are a direct result of getting pregnant and giving birth too young. The fact is their bodies are not developed enough for the birthing process. Then come back and tell me a girl of 10 or 12 can make rational and considered decisions regarding marriage.

On polygamy. A few blokes do have mistresses but having more than one wife is very different. In recent times a rich mans mistress tried to get portion of his estate and the courts ruled against her. Had she been a legal wife, the outcome may be very different.

The first wife is a victim of polygamy.

Dear Shockadelic,

<<Then why are they here? You don't move half way around the planet to *not* be part of another society.>>

Rather than using "they", I can speak for myself:

I actually did move half way around the planet - and it was not in order to become part of another society. Since I was escaping a worse society, I accepted the Australian society as a fair and reasonable compromise, but if I had the option to live in this continent without it, then I would be even happier.

<<And what of the combined power of a united people?>>

Each individual should be able to live their life as they wish, so long as they do not hurt others: no neighbourhood/city/region/state/nation has any legitimate power over my life.

Most children however have a problem: for the time-being they are unable to fully understand their surrounding circumstances and express their wishes clearly enough, so instead they are represented by their parents.

Similarly, when you are in court and are not a legal expert, you are represented by a lawyer of your choice. Assuming you and your lawyer(s) are on the same wavelength, you together have the same powers as if you were competently defending/representing yourself.

(and if you aren't on the same wavelength, then you can always dismiss your lawyer(s) and look for another)

This is the 'power' I was referring to: any other interpretation is merely playing with my words and taking them out of context.

<<Have you heard any outcry from the Australian people about it?>>

Irrelevant, Argumentum ad populum!

It is wrong to impose my will on others, including about when they may or may-not marry. If the state does so in my name, then it's my duty to protest, even if nobody else does.

<<"the tyranny of anti-nose-pickers." Your example is fatuous. No such "tyranny" would ever exist.>>

This of course is only an example to demonstrate the absurdity of trying to control others. I do hope and believe that you are capable of generalised abstract-thinking, when you want...

(continued...)

(...continued)

<<Where controversial laws are made, there is no end to the public response, so they tend to get repealed/amended pretty quick>>

My experience is very different. In 1990 I was about to purchase a bicycle: just then it was established to be a criminal-offence to ride without wearing a pot on one's head, which I'm not willing to do. So I didn't buy that bicycle and today, 24 years later I'm still prevented from riding a bicycle in Australia (other than the stationary ones at the gym).

Dear Banjo,

<<If you believe the crap you wrote in your last two posts, you are a nutter.>>

So are you calling Mother-Nature herself (or Charles Darwin) a nutter?
- for it's they, not me, who decided that a girl can give birth around the age of 12!

<<Have a look at some figures relating to deaths of young females in third world countries that are a direct result of getting pregnant and giving birth too young.>>

People should be able to take risks, if they so freely choose.

<<Then come back and tell me a girl of 10 or 12 can make rational and considered decisions regarding marriage.>>

Some can, some not. That's what parents are for, not the state.

(as a side-note, rationality or lack thereof should not be a precondition for free choice)

On polygamy, anyone can write a will overriding marriage altogether.

ITS FUNNY..HOW ACCOMMODATING[Without being intimidating]?

WAKE-up..the..[pub*lick sir*vants]..have let us down
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808

if/yOUR..PAYING THE BILLS/TIME..YOU KNEW WHY
http://board.freedomainradio.com/page/books/the_handbook_of_human_ownership_a_manual_for_new_tax_farmers.html
arjay/quote..<<>.This pre-occupation with illegals..>>

WILLING/TO..WORK..FOR FREE.<<<is a just a distraction from the real game of looting..our economies and keeping us peasants subjugated>>
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16224&page=0

see how they sell suburbia/REPLACEMENT/CULTURE..TO US..in sitcoms
we bought..into the dream..instead of family[PICK/A FAMILY/PICK..FRIENDS]

we are..'the team'[JUDGE/JUDY/COP-SHOWS/FOOTY/SOME BALL/'BROADCAST'
or the state..or the nationality..or the sex..or the skin..GROUP/MOB

my point is we are all..being made..over into clones..SET WAGE/ACIODING/TO..THE STANDARD.O.OF WORK/EXPECTED..FROM A FORCED SLAVE..

ONE BRUSH TARS..US ALL/
WE ARE ALL SINNERS/WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS...BEGGING..FOR WORK

we are..all..SPOILED/BELOVED..children..enjoined living mortal heirs of..the one most holy living living merciful immortal/omnipresenowholly spirit.

how to explain..to loved ones..whats going on
globally..is they give us foodstamps..or subsistence dole/PENAL TITHE/RATE/CASAUAL/AT CALL.ONE SIZE FITS ALL

where most half/govt income..goes back direct to some capitalist ..landlord/tax free.[off shored trust]..stealing govt/bailout cash..from..slaves..working/for\dole.

[we ARE SEEING REAL-ESTATE UP..AGAIN IN IRELAND..yet..still 5000 ghost estates..they bought up pennies in the pound..stand empty

but/what if*..we could..get cash/from govt via rent assistance for immigrants ..nice sure govt cash-flow..to fill to fill the capitalist bill..dole/rent assistance..

[yet more drain/from the public purse..filled only by selling more public services..[privatisations..of govt income streams..or by ever more sin taxes or fees fines revenue acces chargES/other increases in govt theft..[read tax burden]

WE ARE SEEING HOUSES GO UP/..YET/SEEING EVICTIONS AND REPOSSESSIONS..homeless joblessness broken homes..go up to

THEN..HUGE GOVT..bailout/mates..with TAX ADVANTAGED FIRMS CREATING THE NEXT INVESTMENT BOND..bubble..[bunded RENTED HOUSING]...damm caps..ie the next bubble[rental houses paid for immigrants via dole payments]

its a hidden bailout/
THE GROWTH MODEL DEMANDS
but..ONLY PUTS further NON PRODUCTIVE/Burden on us...ALL .GLOBALLY..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140417_Thu_Alex.mp3

i wish people would..get the facts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
GIVE THINGS A REST
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16225&page=0

A footnote on <<polygamy>>

When I mentioned above that: <<A friend of mine who was involved in delivery charity parcels reported that he observed a huge number of cases where the marriage laws of Oz were being openly flouted.>>

I was taking about polygamy. My friend who incidentally is of Middle Eastern origin observed many situations --in his community -- where a man would have different wives in different locations, each separately registered for govt benefits and charity handouts.

I have to laugh at Yuyutsu's (naive) points:

<<For a family, therefore, who wishes to integrate into modern Western society, marrying and having a baby at 12 is inappropriate, mainly because it would interfere with the girls' studies and job-prospects>>

<<However, one should not arbitrarily assume that people wish to integrate into their society unless those people actually expressed that desire. If one for example (either parent or child) asked the state for welfare-payments or schooling, then that constitutes an implicit desire to integrate >>

According to my friend:
1)Such *families* hadn't the slightest concern re the girls education or job prospects. Believing a womans role was in the home, making babies.

2) They saw being registered for govt & charity benefits as in no way reflecting a desire or commitment integrate !

Dear SPQR,

Regarding your second point, you can't eat the cake and have it too:

If you wish to receive the benefits of Western society, then you should pay the price for it as well.

Regarding your first point, as to what families believe in, your suggestion is only one among many possibilities:

Another family for example may believe that their daughter is destined to be a traditional Shaman/healer and that her marriage at a young age to a male Shaman and having a baby to him is an essential part of that path, providing her with both education and a career (this is just an example, so please don't assume that I believe in shamanism like Shockadelic who takes me too literally).

The first and foremost sacred freedom is the freedom from society - either from society in general or from a specific society one doesn't wish to be part of. However, once one freely chooses to participate in a society, then one is rightly bound by its rules.

If you were reading my previous posts, you would already know that I respect the girl's freedom above all. A 12 year old girl, should she so choose, should have no problem walking to a police-station (or any other institute, even just a shop, or by making a phone-call) and asking for refuge and asylum from her family.

tsu/quote..<<..Modern and especially Western society..is very complex and unnatural,...so one is not ready to function independently within it by the age of 8.>>..

THAT IS A GOOD POINT
NATURE=SURVIVAL OF FIT-TEST..BUT OUR SOCIETY..IS MORE MIND OVER NATURE..EVEN TO NURTURE OVER NAture/aor at expense.of nature[ie we deep think..on every-think]

<<..Instead, one requires about 10 more years of education/indoctrination to be considered 'mature'.>>

no that suited/us..in our day..now a days it takes 12..just for the stuff we learnt/then 8 years to catch up on the changes SINCE THEN/THE PROBLEM IS WE BEEN FORCING OUR KIDS TO LEARn twice as much as we did..in the saME TIME

<<>.Even then we find people in society..who are still immature at the age of 80!>>THAT FORCED ME TO RECALL/ONLY 30 YEARS AGO..RETARDS WERE ONE IN 3000..[TODAY ITS ONE IN 75]..DUE TO ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTIONS AND VACCINATION 'SIDE AFFECT'

<<>.For a family, therefore, who wishes to integrate into modern Western society, marrying and having a baby at 12 is inappropriate, mainly because it would interfere with the girls' studies and job-prospects.>>

and forcing..a civilised child back into nature ONLY DRIVES THEM INSANE/THERE COMES THAT TIME..WE MUST STANDUP/AND SAY..WE DIO IT DIUFFERENTLY..TODAY

<<>> However, one should not arbitrarily assume that people wish to integrate into their society unless those people actually expressed that desire.>>>

SIMPLE TO GET IN [OR STAY]..EACH MUST SWEAR IT TRUE?
TEST IF THEY GET WHY?

<<.. If one for example (either parent or child) asked the state for welfare-payments or schooling, then that constitutes an implicit desire to integrate>>

AND AVAILABLE ONLY BY ASSUMING ONGOING FOLLOWING OF OUR SOCIETY CIVIL RULE..not forced nor enforced moralistic fundraising

<<.. - but room must always be left for those families who do not wish to have anything to do with modern Western society and/or the states it created.>>.

without society benefit..any burden is unjust
privileges HAVE A PRICE..FREEDOM HAS ITS COST.
iFits a hidden bailout/THE GROWTH MODEL DEMANDS
THAt..ONLY PUTS further NON PRODUCTIVE/Burden on us...ALL .GLOBALLY..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140417_Thu_Alex.mp3

i wish people would..get the facts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
GIVE THINGS A REST
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16225&page=0

Yuyutsu,

Why do I get the impression that you have only a recently arrived on this planet and are still having problems adjusting to the ways of the locals?

<<as to what families believe in, your suggestion is only one among many possibilities...Another family for example may believe that their daughter is destined to be a traditional Shaman/healer...>>

Actually, I think it is a safe bet that if they are chanting that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his last and greatest prophet. They are not going to look too kindly on anyone wanting to make a career as a shaman--or shawoman.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/


<< I respect the girl's freedom above all. A 12 year old girl, should she so choose, should have no problem walking to a police-station (or any other institute, even just a shop, or by making a phone-call) and asking for refuge and asylum from her family.>>

You have much greater faith than me Gunga Din!

Rather than becoming more accommodating, this thread has highlighted one thing. We have been suckers.

Yep it is not more accommodating we have to become. What we need is a much faster & heavier right boot. A big boot to kick out the undesirables quick time, & ignore the bleeding hearts who would plead for mercy for their attackers.

The stupidity of excess kindness, thinking a helping hand will be welcome & reciprocated with thanks by these aliens has to stop. The fact that they walk on 2 legs does not make them human, just a facsimile of human beings.

Yuyutsu "if I had the option to live in this continent without it [society], then I would be even happier."

But you don't. Nobody does.
And that's the point.

You can't go anywhere at all without encountering a "society", where you have to live with *other* people and those people (as a whole, not just as individuals) decide the nature of that society.

Again you're proposing an absolutist idealist vision of life (of you, and only you) that can never exist in reality.

People who want child marriage or polygamy can move to societies that permit them.
They shouldn't move to a society where they know those acts are overtly unacceptable, then expect some special "cultural sensitivity" exemption.

"no neighbourhood/city/region/state/nation has any legitimate power over my life."

Then why does a "family" have power?
Why did your parents have power over you?

Why on Earth does blood relation confer power/authority but no other social grouping does?
(Ironically, when I prioritise blood relations, it's an outrage!).

"If one asked the state for welfare-payments or schooling, then that constitutes an implicit desire to integrate"

In one way or another *everyone* makes use of the state's provisions.

Do you walk on the footpath? Do you drive on the road?
Who pays the upkeep on those? The government!

Where does the government get the money? The people! (i.e. the society, which you think you can disconnect from).

"So I didn't buy that bicycle"

Where's the protest? You just passively gave up.
How are the politicians going to know your opposition?

Hasbeen "The fact that they walk on 2 legs does not make them human"

Whether they're "human" is irrelevant.
"Human" doesn't mean anything. It tells you nothing about them.

Humans don't live as humans.
We're the only species with no "standard operating procedure".

People might live as Turks, women, engineers, surfers, gamblers, Mormons.
But nobody lives as a "human".

Immigration policy should not therefore be justified by people simply being "human". That's not enough.

Yuyutsu,
I think I will just put you down as eccentric with peculiar ideas.

You could live on an inaccessable bush block, but you would still have to pay rates and for your PC connection, so have to participate in society. You could build a bicycle track where you could ride without a helmet. That would learn the government not to impose their will where it is not wanted.

Dear Shockadelic,

<<You can't go anywhere at all without encountering a "society">>

Sadly, this is the existing situation where society is tied up with geography: this forum is a perfect place to express my view that this shouldn't be so!

<<People who want child marriage or polygamy can move to societies that permit them.>>

Agreed. But this should not require them to move to a different geographical region. One should be allowed to roam this earth, created by God; by nature; or whatever; long before the creation of states, without being forced to belong to societies they have no interest in - provided of course they do no harm to others.

<<Then why does a "family" have power?>>

This is not 'power' as such to act against the will of a child, but rather extremely similar to 'power of attorney', representing a child until she is old enough to represent herself.

<<In one way or another *everyone* makes use of the state's provisions.>>

As a consequence of the state having practically blocked all other options and immorally enforced its violent power over a whole continent.

<<Where's the protest? You just passively gave up. How are the politicians going to know your opposition?>>

I have tried, but quickly learned that politicians almost never listen to ordinary people. For every successful protest there are 1000's of unsuccessful ones, but we usually hear only of the successful ones.

I did however announce over these pages that in the next federal elections I will vote for whatever party(s) that stops denying me the freedom to ride a bicycle.

yuyu..any chance..your in Brisbane..on 6 may?
your correct in what you say...protests dont work
so im doing things a different way..judgment day..begins 6 of may

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=11

i need witness..who have tried to be heard
ie who want to be heard..to talk before a maggi straight/sworn to report diedctly to the king[ok queen]..if i can make it happen..6 may..is d day

im told that judgment DAY LASTS 50,000 YEARS?
SOMETHING RE THE KORAN JESUS..and judgment day
im planning a first witness..dennis walker..but if he dont make it..i could sure use the hep..

IM TRYING TO DECIDE IF BLOGGING OR GOING TO MARDIGRASS..needs be a part of the plan..but if we cant be heard even in the queens court room..we might as well be in rome.or i might as well stay home

Yuyutsu "where society is tied up with geography"

How can this not be the case?

We are physical beings located in space.
The people closest to us in physical space are going to be the ones we interact with the most.
There are geographical boundaries like oceans, deserts and mountain ranges that hinder interaction.

This will inevitably form a geographically based society, with commonly shared cultural elements.

It will also lead to biological similarity, as people breed with those available, those nearby.

There is no escape from this (though Multi is certainly trying its hardest to artificially disrupt this natural development).

"long before the creation of states" we had tribes, clans, towns, etc.

If you didn't like it, or they didn't like you, you had to *leave*.

You couldn't just be part of the Apache tribe, and live like a Tibetan.
Sorry, out!

*We* created states, and have consented to them.
We can always revolt, as has happened many times in history.

And that doesn't even take a majority.
The Maoists, Bolsheviks and Vietcong overturned their societies with a tiny group of activists (not that I support their ideology).

"I will vote for whatever party(s) that stops denying me the freedom to ride a bicycle."

Even if they're racist right-wingers?
(They're probably the only people even trying to defend personal liberty these days).

Dear Shockadelic,

Nothing prevents people of different societies from having various levels of inter-society cooperation.

What is not needed, is forcing the same administration, the same laws, the same culture, the same religion (or lack thereof), the same myths, the same values or the same identity on people who otherwise have no wish to be related by the above.

There may be minimal requirements, thus agreements, flowing from the physical need to live in geographical proximity, but these aren't extensive and do not mandate any of the above.

<<Even if they're racist right-wingers?>>

Yes, just for the next federal elections they could be red, green, blue, black, yellow, white or orange.

I may hate all their other policies, but there you are - if you have any contacts, why won't you convince your favourite politician to relax that draconian law I'm suffering from though I hurt nobody? What have they got to lose?

I can assure them that if I break my head, then all medical expenses will be on my own head - I don't want and won't accept even one cent from Medicare anyway.

Waiting much too longer I may be too old to take up cycling. I want some security that if my car breaks down or if I lose my driver's license for whatever reason, I can still remain independent and move around and be where I need to be.

Why this senseless cruelty?

Had Australia not been federated, if states were independent and smaller, then it would be more likely for me to find at least one place where they don't criminalise me for riding a bicycle!

Yuyutsu, yes we can interact with other societies as much as we want.

But we're not talking about interacting with Turks in Turkey or Thai in Thailand.

We're talking about the artificial transplantation/introduction of those and 6000 other peoples to a society that have no connection to.

You're all for choice and consent, but where is *our* choice/consent in these matters?

When did we, Australians, consent to this crazy experiment?
The "choice" is all one way.
They can choose to come here, but we have no say in it.

As for not wearing helmets, I totally agree this should not be controlled by the state.

However, I don't think federal or regional jurisdiction would make any difference.
Pollies are infected with the same mind-toxins everywhere you go.

Proportional or direct democracy would go a long way to alleviating this control-freak impulse.

But you would still end up with the same-laws-for-everyone, just less of them.
I don't think there's any way to avoid this.

Dear Shockadelic,

Thank you for your support.

So after a long detour we are now back 360 degrees on the original topic of multi-culturalism:

Certainly, Australians have a clear and legitimate choice not to accept anyone they don't like into their society, for whatever reason.

I am perplexed myself by the MC experiment: what gave past governments any right to take our money in taxes and pour it into social-engineering projects and experiments? The same would have been legitimate if done voluntarily with private/charitable funds of those who like cultural-variety, but it was not.

Where I disagree, is in translating emotions that result in the rejection of certain people from entering Australian society, into physically blocking those people from entering this continent and locking them up (subject of course to preventing health-hazards and criminal activity which threatens Australians).

Birds and fish may enter Australia freely. The fact that land-animals can't is purely geographical, so if we had terrestrial borders, then they too could enter. Then why are humans treated worse than animals?

Sure, if an animal brings disease or is likely to attack people or their livestock, then it is shot (or poisoned), but there is no justification to harm, including by locking up, those animals that are benign, unless and until shown otherwise.

Animals are not expected to become part of human society, nor does society accept animals as equal members. Further, society is not obliged to save them from drowning or to feed them. But then, we also do not interfere with their mating habits.

Naturally wild animals should not be allowed in highly-developed areas such as cities where they can cause damage (unless securely adopted by residents on their private property), but most of Australia is little-developed, so there is no justification for blocking this whole vast land from others only because they are human!

I definitely agree about proportional and direct democracy.

I may be wrong, but I think that smaller autonomous states will create competition for human-freedoms, where governments would not want to lose their best citizens due to stupid restrictions.

gee girls what have we done to poor joe?

<<i.e. opportunism ?

I was born on the Left and I'll die on Left, but it's not the same 'Left' as that of unprincipled scum like Pilger's.

Arjay praising Pilger - well, it's all anti-US, isn't it, so it must be okay.

What a bankrupt bunch. And their best effort - Poirot's and Foxy's - is 'nyah, nyah, well, you did too ...'

Sometimes I weep for a genuine, principled, thinking, Left. Those were the days.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 24 April 2014 4:36:27 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16236&page=0