pelican very nice post

Yes Pelican, I agree with your post too.
And, it's nice to see you here :)

Nurses certainly would not agree to work night shifts or weekends without an incentive like penalty rates. It's bad enough to find staff as it is.

Cheers,
Suse.

One of my sons is a public bus driver, (great conditions thanks to the Union) Why should he give up his wife and child on a Sunday and not get rewarded for the sacrifice. The people who oppose penalty rates are the office types who work 9 (9.15 most days, always late, blame the traffic) till 5 (except Friday's po at 4.30 the weekends coming and that dammed traffic) Monday to Friday and take an Hour (and a half) for lunch!
I've worked with a lot of these anti union people, I'm not joking when I say their productivity is about 3 to 4 hours a day at best! Arrive late, every day 10 15 minutes, get a coffee, have about 4 of them a day, meet Doris downstairs for a smoke and a chin wag,often doing that, morning tea 20 mins, on the phone to mum, private call half hour about 3 or 4 of them a day. Lunch, never less than 1.15 to 1.30 (had to do some banking or something) leave early, gotta pick up the dry cleaning or some such things. And they are on 30 to 40 bucks an hour and I still don't know what they actually did/produced!
One said to me once "The only union I'd ever join is the CREDIT UNION!).

Butch I said our GDP is rising which means we have growth. Your favorite line is you think we are in great shape. How can we be in great shape when we have a guaranteed extra unemployment of 75,000 since Abbott and co have been there.
Penalty rates are there for inconvenience, if you can't afford it don't go there.
A bloke sweeping the floor in your opinion is worth nothing. I suggest you do it yourself. That is why we have a minimum wage.
Not even the coalition would come up with the ideas you have, your party is far more to the right than Abbott could ever be.

Just for the record, I don't have a problem with PR for this working nights. My problem is for the likes of weekends, when weekends are a normal part of that industry.

While I accept there should be some penalty, double time in many industries, just because it's a Sunday is where the problem lies.

Another area hit hard is the fruit industry, where the likes of strawberries cost more to harvest just because it's a Sunday.

If you don't want to work weekends, find another industry.

579.....A bloke sweeping the floor in your opinion is worth nothing. I suggest you do it yourself. That is why we have a minimum wage.

Utter rubbish, I have never said a bloke sweeping a floor is worth nothing, but, what I have said, is that a bloke who sweeps floors for a living can't expect to receive a wage that can support his family, pay his mortgage/rent, run the car and provide every day living standards, because this is a low skilled job and, if you are not happy with the wage, then find another job.

You people fail to understand that the most important issue here is affordability, and it's the very issue that is causing the mass exit of jobs from the likes of Ford, Holden, Toyota, Qantas and the massive (yet to be quantified) support industries.

We are simply burning the candle from both ends, but you just don't get it!

Unfortunately we have some here who can not see beyond their bank balance, these conservatives who are forever suffering from 'economic rationalism'. Such people see nothing in society, but a money driven economy, concerned with little else than markets and the pursuit of material wealth. You will hear the likes of Abbott continually referring to "the economy" but rarely, if ever, do they mention society.
Butch, you put forward the notion "that a bloke who sweeps floors for a living can't expect to receive a wage that can support his family, pay his mortgage/rent, run the car and provide every day living standards." In that rational economy I mentioned, that may well be true. However I much prefer a society of equality, where those with plenty, and most of us do indeed have plenty, help those that have the least in society.
The notation of a minimum wage was established nationally in Australia way back in 1907 in what was the 'Harvester Judgement' this judgement by Justice Higgins in the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration was not based on any kind of economic rationalism, but rather on the principle of providing for the minimum needs of the average man regarded as a human being living in a civilized community and not a wage that an employer would deem advantageous to himself.
In 1907, the Harvester Judgement set a minimum wage for unskilled labourers of 2 pounds, 2 shillings per week the amount an average working man paid for food, shelter and clothing – for him and his family. Butch you seem to want to wind the clock back over a 100 years.
Australia has a proud tradition of providing for its most needy and that is something I never want to see changed by the likes of these so called economic rationalists!