Dear runner
If your agreement doesn't cut under the award wage go for it I say.
But if it does don't try to make your employees subsidize a weak business,And i don't mean to sound harsh with that comment If your struggling you have probably asked yourself why are you doing this, Just passing it down the line won't help, all it will do is create a underclass that goes to work but still can't afford basic's.

Dear Aussieboy,

<<most bosses/employers are greedy money hungry pigs that if it was legal to employ 10 year old kids and whip them they would.>>

But fortunately it is not.

<<Maybe we talking about 2 different sides systems here>>

Why not - one for individuals and another for companies (and other incorporated bodies)!

<<You would also probably have a different opinion on the new retirement age.>>

I believe there should be no such thing as retirement age, but is for each one of us to decide when we want to retire and hopefully we would have saved enough to live comfortably by then. People tend to live beyond their means (and in particular to bring children to the world when they cannot afford - raising a child properly in the West costs around $1M, which most people don't have), then complain they don't have any left.

This doesn't mean that you receive nothing when old: you should still receive negative-income-tax, which is uniform for young and old, rich and poor, those who work and those who are lazy, etc. This way no one should starve and this way, anyone should be able to negotiate with their employer because they know that come what may, they wouldn't starve.

I wrote more about it in http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15791#273170

Personally what concerns me more than adequate income, is when people out of hunger and desperation are made to perform unethical work against their conscience (for example to follow their boss's orders to cheat customers or harm the general public and the environment). This unfortunately is very low on unions' priority-list and since ethical standards are highly personal, unions who by their nature think collectively, are not equipped to deal with ethical questions.

In what occupation/job are there 'obscene penalty rates'?

I would imagine they must be truly awful jobs if they have such high rates?

I have worked with penalty rates all my working life, as a nurse.
I can tell you now that there is no way any of us would have agreed to work weekends without penalty rates!

Suseonline,
Isn't it funny how you latch onto that one yet you totally ignore the other one about bureaucrats being paid way too much.
Are you one of them ? No wonder you're so opportunistic in your questioning.
Those obscene penalty rates are in many industries with the hospitality industry being affected the most. It's become unaffordable.

If penalty rates are unaffordable for the hospitality industry, why do they exist. You want the worker to take the hit for a glut of coffee shops. That is backward thinking.

the number of young unemployed seems to be left out of this debate. Yes everyone can selfishly demand more and in the end it leaves people out of work. I would rather see a 20 year old earning $25 per hour on a weekend than sitting around shooting up because he can't earn anything due to an employer not being able to pay $40 per hour.

btw sooner or later the myth that teachers and nurses are not well paid will be busted.