Gee Paul, some boss must have done a number on you old mate. Nothing to do with your efforts of cause.

As for you comment about the cash economy, a TT tax will address that as well, because at some stage that cash hit the bank.

The one point you and others are missing is that we are headed for a train wreck as far as unemployment goes and, if wages and conditions are not allowed to move with the times, just lime they did during boom times, we risk being the highest paid non workers around.

As for your mention of sales increase in coffee shops, are you aware that a coffee should retail for about ten bucks now?

Increased sales means increased staff and increased costs, so unless your margins are right you as an owner are simply creating jobs, which is not what owning a small business is all about.

As for your mention of the majors and Sundays, there in lies the problem, as they employ kids, while small retailers can't survive with face book addicts.

Finally, with regatds to your perception of my idea of what wages shoukd be, I don't mind debating with people, but when you start depicting me as a slave driver, all I can say to you, is go .......yourself.

Hi Suse
I don't get to OLO as often as I would like especially over the past year. I heartily agree with you about nurses. Penalty rates recognise the extraordinary hours put in to ensure best patient care.

Aussieboy
You mentioned Gina Rinehart's comments. Hard to know whether to laugh or cry about her comments on welfare dependency given the amount of tax concessions, policy decisions in favour of mining companies (ie. environmental) and other forms of corporate welfare like export grants. Recent media reports reveal Apple paid 0.50cents for every $1000 last year, moving funds offshore to avoid taxes. They are not the only company doing so. These behaviours come from big corporations who are the biggest welfare cheats of all.

Sure, nobody likes a real bludger in terms of when people are capable of working. The mistake many Conservatives make is to presume the majority of Disability Pension and Newstart recipients are unwilling to work, can work, or through ideologial beliefs, that the safety net should be reduced. I think in the long term that sort of thinking fails for everyone.

Growing gaps betwen rich and poor affects the health and welfare of all. The bigger the gap, the less people spend and the economy slows. A fairer distribution of wealth through closing the gap ie. via a fair taxation system, as well as recognising the value of labor is a win-win. Many on the Right will disagree but I think their thinking is flawed.

(Apologies for the errors in my earlier post - failed to edit properly)

Dear rehctub
So following your conclusions we would have people with degrees sweeping floors and cleaning toilets,So who does this benefit? the wealth again now the upper paid jobs can have pay and conditions removed. welcome dude you just fell into the dream trap created to give poor hope that you can climb out of the slums into a mansion for working hard,The system allows a few to climb the ladder to keep the populace dreaming i.e lotteries
reality for every one winner is 1000000 losers
and rehctub i do feel for your situation i really do been there myself
Wait until some government policy ruins you business overnight and then you end up working for $500 a week and have to payout bills for 10 years as i had to,Which then puts you over 50 and then you see the real face of Australia,No house , no job , no future

The notion of rates of pay based on 'piece' work is nothing new. In fact its been around since man first put a shirt on his back. Outsourcing in the garment and footwear industries is common in Australia. Often outworkers are migrant women forced to work under appalling conditions doing piece work from home or in backyard sheds etc. The rates of pay are set according to the workers "production" often working out at less than $8/hr, even as low as $3/hr.

"but when you (paul1405) start depicting me (butch) as a slave driver, all I can say to you, is go .......yourself."

Butch you are a typical small (minded) business type. You have never shown any inclination to support the worker. How is the above any different from what you say;

"In a perfect world, you should get paid by the volume of meals (shirts, tiers, brick laid etc etc) you create, on a bonus system whereby you get a very moderate wage, then bonuses calculated on the numbers you produce. It's called, reward for ones effort, not appearance money as is often the case today."

You call it a perfect world, perfect for some, a life of low paid drudgery for others.
On you other point of "if wages and conditions are not allowed to move with the times, just like they did during boom times" Wages rates are subject to far closer control than prices, with minimum rates and agreements the subject of court rulings, in that way there is little in the way of wage explosions in Australia. So if wages are going to be controlled in boom times, then just because things get tough they shouldn't then be subject to market forces.

http://www.ethical.org.au/get-informed/issues/homeworkers-in-australia/

cont

cont

"Gee Paul, some boss must have done a number on you old mate. Nothing to do with your efforts of cause." What are you talking about Butch, because I'm willing to stick up for workers I must have had some boss like you do a number on me. I'm actually a qualified Engineer and have always been well paid and worked under very good conditions. I'm simply a person with a social conscience, those without one often think that strange.
Butch, some selfish people are only concerned about ways to make things better for themselves. Your tax idea, although it has merit, I'm sure your overriding reason for supporting it is because it would benefit you, first and foremost.

Paul, while I respect that you are a person with a social conscience, all I am saying is that the good times are over, and either we move now to save many businesses, or we loose out completely, because the only way we can turn our country back from the damage caused over the past two terms of government, is to make our businesses flourish. I know you don't see that, but then again I doubt you have ever created a job in your life.

The simple fact is that many small businesses no longer see the rewards worth the risk, because unlike average workers, who risk nothing, business owners often risk everything they own, yet the likes of you despise the fact that they too want to be paid

I have always believed that if a business owner pays out an extra dollar in wages, why should they not be entitled to one for themselves..

Surely that's not unreasonable.

The truth is, that today, a small business has a better chance of failure than success, and that's the beginning of the end because everything is about balance.

People have to realize we have demanded a seven day society, so now we have it, we must pay for it.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Just for the record Paul, I was an exceptionally fair employer, always rewarding good effort. Also, unlike you, I was a risk taker, although I did see the writing on the wall, not before blowing half a million, but at least I had it to blow I guess.

Engineers and lawyers used to hate me, because in their eyes I was a dumb old butcher, having left school at year 10, yet what you guys called a wage, I called spending money.