The Forum > General Discussion > Unions do we need them?
Unions do we need them?
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Posted by Belly, Monday, 14 May 2007 10:20:01 AM
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Belly I started my working life in a new industry that had no union representation. We were well paid because the industry wanted to attract the brightest because the employers had to provide on the job training and quite frankly there weren't any experienced people to hand down their skills. There was great disparity in pay rates, pay was determined by how desperate the company was for bodies rather than how much revenue you created. There was no overtime pay, no part time work, an expectation of working until the job was done, an expectation of being on call 24/7, an expectation that women who became mothers would retrain into a different field, an expectation that all workers would retire before they got too old.
After a while employees of large organisations joined unions so that they could get pay rises. Telecom didn't deal with 30,000 individuals it dealt with a handful of unions. After 10 years I was surprised to find that when people were called out at midnight they got call out pay, there was provision to come to work late. After 30 years I noticed that women could arrange to work part time from 9am to 3 pm. When I look at teachers unions, they are the only workforce where a woman's position is held open for 7 years while she takes maternity leave. I have inhabited the seriously disabled ward of Royal Perth Hospital and heard the stories of union officials advised relatives of seriously injured workers not to sign the disclaimers the self insured company thrusts in front of them because the rehabilitation and compensation costs are greater than the relatives can imagine. Yes we need unions to push for fair conditions in the work place, to represent workers who can't speak for themselves. The conditions the unions gain eventually flow through to the un-unionised workforce. In fact, many an individual contract is written after both parties have read the relevant award. Posted by billie, Monday, 14 May 2007 12:29:56 PM
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The "softly softly" approach does not work when sh-t hits the fan. Someone always gets hurt.
We bully in the work place, in community and the playground. We have critical social health issues that are not just caused by peoples responses to drought or cyclones. We need to grow up as citizens, and as a whole nation - if we are to economically survive the coming decades as a nation in tact. Australians run to lawyers often because they do not appear to understand the true meaning of advocacy. We bully all those with a difference of opinion rather that learning and listening and helping to resolve issues, problems, and complaints. We blacklist whistle blowers, smear those advocating human rights... and then blame the media. We need to understand advocates, and the role of the media as we do political parties, unions and lawyers. As people, we need to learn more about how to stand up for ourselves and others. Co-dependance is a underlying cause of structural violence and other forms of violence in Australia. It is the 'invisable' social ill costing the nation millions. The thing is the advocacy groups mentioned above are cheaper than lawyers and unlike lawyers... advocacy groups be they said through the media, or as consumers, political parties or unions... are often more skilled and familiar with the complexity of issues they work with... than most lawyers. A egalitarian society is made up of many plural voices and we ought to welcome this fact as part of our "collective security". Conflict is usually about two gangs and needs a third party and a fourth - and so on.... if the representation of all interests are to be understood. http://www.miacat.com/ . Posted by miacat, Monday, 14 May 2007 12:58:10 PM
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Both posts interest me and I look forward to more, however not every one can fight or even stand for themselves.
My lifetime roll as a union activist has been to be there for them, I truly once thought I did not have the skills to be a union official. Those skills however include an understanding that such people may be even better workers than those who can look after themselves. We must not fail to understand industrial relations will always need a place things can be settled in , a failure of workchoices is the loss of the house of review. However a union can settle issues long before that stage. Evidence for that comes from hundreds of calls from employers who ask, can you come down? , I am not sure what I should be paying. Or we have had a few injury's this month could you have a look?an extra pair of eyes can only help. Believe me unions have a place for most fair minded employers. And of course we must be aware those I mention in the starting post are having a great time under workchoices, care to differ? Find a worker who is owed super, take the easy? path contact the tax office to resolve it, be prepared for a very long wait. They are at best putting other forms of tax evasion first second and third, just maybe my view they are unconcerned is true. I have to report to our posters in this thread about one in 20 manual workers can not read or write in this country ,that is both a reason they need help and a blot on our education system. However some unions are well in advance of others in taking needless warfare out of IR. OH don't get me wrong if fight we must then winners are after all are grinner's. But it comes last tool in the box for modern unionists. Posted by Belly, Monday, 14 May 2007 1:24:46 PM
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Answer:- NO
Posted by Gadget, Monday, 14 May 2007 9:19:28 PM
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Thanks Gadget at the start I said some would have uninformed views or views not based on a true understanding, you proved my point early in the thread.
Now just one days planned work for one trade union official,tell me the unfair parts. That AWA in another thread, over 800 have so far been signed, first job find out how they did not bring federal government intervention. Visit a firm not paying travel or super as per the agreement they put in place 2 years ago. Be there, answer the phone about ten to fifteen times this day and start actions as needed. Put the notices for visits planned this week together and see they are faxed of . If time permits spend a few minutes reveling in yesterdays polls and asking low income workers how they feel about unions/workchoices and Howard. Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 5:22:25 AM
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Post workchoices even if Rudd wins in both houses it is my view unions face challenges.
But that no doubt exists they will over come them, first no union intent on success can not employ always only the very best.
Such out dated views as first on last of betray the membership, only the best are good enough to serve a members owned and operated union.
Some here know nothing of the union movement they did not half read and half understand in the papers .
But unions are not all alike and some must now learn to sit down and talk not make brutal war.
And while some actions of extremist unionists hurt the movement and find zero support from me, some on the other side are never unmasked for dreadful anti worker attitudes.
No payments of super are not even the tip of the iceberg.
ABN, payments are huge and at the end of the year under paid under skilled workers have big tax bills to pay and nothing to pay them with.
Safety is non existent even boots worn out with toes showing are on every contractors site.
Unions will always be needed to see fairness in a world that does not always care about that word.
Unions will survive and thrive but in new directions finding new tools and ways to serve members.
Lets talk about it.