Hi Belly
mate..I'm not bagging all unions on the basis of the actions of one.
All I'm pointing out is that by their nature, Unions are prone to or a juicy target for unscrupulous people.

Further...I'm not whacking you at all for wanting fairness mate. I also want that.
Notice, I didn't actually say 'Unions are bad'.. I just pointed out that they are vulnerable to exploitation. I tried to make the point that one of the factors which makes them vulnerable to manipulation is....'us'... when people promise us 'an industrial land flowing with milk and honey' many of us like to believe it is possible AND... enduring.

If Jesus were here today, (and He is in Spirit) he would condemn corruption on all sides. Employer and Union.

My 'point' is that the biggest problem is we ourselves. Because of that, I took a totally different approach by suggesting that if we get 'us' right first, a lot of other things will fall into place.

Please remember, at the cutting edge of the anti slavery movement were evangelical Christians such as William Wilberforce and others.

We can respond to injustice in two ways.
1/ Fight it with a violent and possibly armed struggle.(I live near Johnson Tiles.. ring any bells?)
2/ Call out in the name of God for people to re-think their whole lives and values.

John the Baptist too the 2nd approach, as did Jesus, and the Apostles.
It took 300 yrs, but the cruelty of the Roman Empire was transformed by the emergence of the young and unpolluted Church. Once Constantine made it 'politically correct' to be 'Christian'..... things changed and opportunistic people took advantage of this.

Tut tut Belly - your reaction just goes to prove my point.

Belly mate.. for your consolation and encouragement.. I DO see a very important role for unions, but only in association with Employers and standing as 'one'.. rather than us/them.

THE UNION ROLE.
On the day that unionists will stand with me at the docks of Australia, and hold up banners condemning the Chinese for their
-Pollution.
-Slave labor.
-Cruelty to employees.

Then I will totally support them :)

by the way, if we had more unionists like Doug Cameron, we should consider ourselves highly blessed.
If we had more like Greg Combe, I would consider Australia a wasteland worthy of total abandonment.

Ah BD no I must not say it! you do not pick the type of role model Australia would.
Again today my work took me to 2 firms who contract to the NSW government.
And under pay those who work for them, in work partly funded by the federal government.
Both do not have a code compliant agreement or award in place!
A require meant of both governments, the slothful NSW government department , was in fact my employer for 22 years.
It has a policy's that each contractor MUST furnish a statutory declaration to say it pays the right wages.
That is all, IT NEVER CHECKS TO CONFIRM , if I a trade union official can find this out how come my state government, yes the one I am a member of can not?
Yes minister was based on the NSW public service and government.
How come Howard's great IR system did not find it? or act?
Unions will always have a role to play stealing another's words even if its only keeping the B,S honest, clear that should read making them honest no easy task.
Communicat, a shot fired in the dark from you in unknown directions, you can do better.
BD I do not share your seal and am content to try to do my best without imaginary friends
regards

Belly - Keep up the good work, some one needs to curb the excesses of unscrupulous or ignorant employers and act as a mediator between upset workers and their upset bosses.

Hi Belly... well.. on your comment about sharing my 'seal' :) I think you mean't zeal there.. I'll add the word... 'yet' 0_- the power of prayer is stronger than you think old son.

Re those employers, it points not so much to 'unions' as the answer, but better government.

Sounds like we need a watchdog with teeth mate.. why shouldn't the government simply add some more people like yourself to the payroll and check up on these bad employers?

It all boils down to self interest. They don't care because they can get 'elected' without doing so. Lets face it, even though they are a labor government, the raw material for 'taking the electorate for granted' is right there in the number of safe labor seats.
Ask this.... how many of the 'non' safe seats would be swayed by beating a few more employers to death (figuratively) ? I doubt there would be many, but ask again 'How many of them would be swayed this way or that by some short term CASH handout, aaah.. that might be different.

So, with all of this, on the employer side and the worker side, selfishness is the root problem. We sometimes talk in Christian circles of the 'exchanged life' which is based on Pauls statement in Galatians. 2:20

"I" have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer "I" that live, but Christ that lives in me; and the life which I now live in the body I live through faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up to death on my behalf.

COMMENT. If you look at this verse closely, you can see that there are some profound ideas there.

-Not about 'me' any more.
-Its about 'Christ'.
-Who....loved me and... -Gave himself for me.

So, the focus is on self sacrifice and unselfishness, which are wonderful values to have at the roots of our social and economic structure.