FACT ONE: Not every one can stand up for themselves and admitting that you may need support, is part of the learning curve.

FACT TWO: .Many people are often better workers than those who stand to advocate or represent them, on their behalf.

Good work Belly it. It's people like you, bothering too, that make the real difference.
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Unions, like many other advocacy groups, are part of the articulate minority. These are people who believe they have some sort of God given right to advocate on behalf of others - but on their own terms.
Advocacy is not wrong in itself, far from it. However what happens all too often is that it is not representative of the views of the majority. Instead it is representative of the views of those who think they know what is best for the majority.
There is of course the argument that these advocates sometimes get voted into their positions. The reality is often that they bully their way in and continue bullying to remain there. They stifle the capacity of others to communicate, indeed demand that they only speak through them and say what they want to say.
Rudd will endeavour to bring back compulsory unionism by the back door so that they can claim to be representative of what people want.
The reality will be very different.

Communicat your neo con views have been noted here in this thread and in the past.
It is my view in this thread you expose your total lack of knowledge of this subject.
A modern responsive union official who came up with an action that did not have majority support would not last a month.
It is true many need help in advocacy but even they know a false result.
I strongly hold the view no union that does not put the members first can survive.
It takes no brain surgeon to know those who work in the job know it better than any other, and they know if a union result is not right.
You do need to understand not all unions are walking the same path or using the same tactics.
Just this day, hours ago 2 union officials left a medium size business after being there by invitation to re write a good agreement for both the workers and the firm.
Find fault with that if you wish.
Put that type of unionism against John Howard's workchoices and you will find it easy to understand why this federal government is the outgoing one.
I find nothing wrong with the concept of a fair days wages for a fair days work.
And am proud to stand for those who can not do it themselves, and some times that is the boss!
Todays outcome was a result of help this firm got in gaining skills to win work in other Fields from our union.
And that work will benefit both boss and union members no black mail no thuggery no nothing but two way respect.

Unions... are too much 'them/us' for my liking.

Then, they are seen by dark forces as prime targets for takeovers and control of a nations trade. Those dark forces such as the Painters and Dockers etc.. thought nothing of murder to gain a foothold in the union leadership.

Then there is the appeal to the hip pocket. Unscrupulous "power at any cost" unionists with an ulterior political agenda, will promise all manner of commercially unstustainable reward to workers in order to get elected. They get the reward, it lasts for a short time, then the factory closes, and they are out of a Job.

By the same token, employers can be rather exploitative and cruel. Not all, but some.

So, in my view, what we really need is national renewal.

-A stronger sense of extended family.
-A greater awareness of the brotherhood of mankind
-A more caring attitude to others.
-A re-establishment of specific values being taught in our education system.
-Spiritual renewal at the heart, mind and will level.

The 2fold 'Law' which Jesus summed up was:

1/ Love God with all your heart.
2/ Love your neighbour as yourself.

The issue of employer/employee (including Slave/Master) relationships were addressed in the new testament. Even AWA's were addressed in one of Jesus parables. (believe it or not)Matthew 20:1-15

When we leave God out of our lives, we drift.
Anchorless, we float, battered and beaten by the forces of life, heaving this way or that, aimless, out of control to an unknown destination.
"If a blind man leads a blind man, will they not both fall into a pit"? said Jesus.

A little personal story.

Some 15 years ago I worked for a firm in Sydney, there were five of us on the maintenance staff to look after a 20 storey building.
The staff was reduced by one.
Some time after I was called into the ofice and told that I was not considered to be working hard enough,and that this was an official warning.
I pointed out that if it was in fact such a warning then I was entitled to have a Union rep. present.

"Are you in a union?"
"Yes, I'm not a fool".

Never heard another word about it.

It pays to belong.

BD once again you impose your God on a problem or situation.
And unless I read you wrong you claim evilness for a movement based on actions of one group within one union from the past.
Unions formed at a time children worked and died in coal mines, lived whole lives without gaining adulthood.
Workers at the time had been Little more than slaves or property.
The lights on the hill the 1940,s quote from maybe the greatest Labor leader spoke of a different time and that light no longer runs on kero.
To think unions are not different than each other, and that they never changed is unwise.
To think that every boss is fair minded and trust worthy is blind.
Even in a non union factory it is the fact unions exist that underpins wages and conditions.
BD ask your self if your God came back today, if he existed would he condemn me for wanting fairness for all?
And know unions are going to continue to do what they do now bosses unions will continue to want better for bosses .
Workers will continue to want a wage good enough to live on.
I had hoped the debate would have been deeper than the thought that unions are thugs and mugs using members as a path to power.
While improvement is always the only path to success and all unions have room for it facts say the rubbish some think about all unions is based on some unions past actions not all unions today.