Foxy,

As the poster who once claimed that Year 12 school students and their annual coastal high-jinks were in fact responsible for violence far worse and above the violence that police said was the work of ethnic criminal gangs that are taking over OMG bikie gangs, I don't even put much stock in what you claim. You are forever cherry-picking anyhow.

While it is refreshing that a Malik exists and good on him, what do you say prevents his solution from working in the UK and Europe? He is a visiting 'expert' (so say the media anyhow) but what about the UK form whence he comes and the UK's partners in Europe? Why haven't his ideas been adopted there, or if they have, which is very much on the cards, why doesn't the education you say he believes is 'The Cure', work?

I notice you refuse to direct your attention to the obvious challenges to your opinion, preferring to broken record, as usual. If I continue trying to get you to answer a question, you will get all bent out of shape and it will be more of your trademark frivolous rude snipes - as is occurring to posters on other threads ATM, eg runner, where you are levelling childish and noxious allegations about his relations with his mother and wife. Just because he disagrees with you!

Now that the voters have put out the rubbish in Canberra, hopefully a fresh approach might come to terms with the simple, incontrovertible truth that the federal government has been importing problems and violence. That comes down to screening, which has often been at fault before. An example being the sentimental idiot Malcolm Fraser, who against the advice of his own immigration and foreign affairs officials, imported a problem that continues to grow in Sydney.

otb,

It appears that I was under a
false impression in thinking that we could
have a reasoned, intelligent discussion.
(Because nobody likes or supports an abusive,
illogical debater).
But I was wrong - so I shall move on and leave you
to fizz and sputter in your own grease

A challenge to Western apologists (Google the term):
In Australia, provided we follow the law of the land,

*We have as much lawful right to reject a religion as to follow it
*We have as much lawful right to reject a marriage as to accept it
*We have as much lawful right to disobey rules of personal behaviour as to obey them
*We have as much lawful right to slight a “prophet” as to “pbuh” him
*We have as much lawful right to associate with people we choose as to avoid them

Does the education in Australian Madrassas instil those rights? Do “moderate” Moslem educators do so? Does Aftab Malik? If these Enlightenment values art standard fare for Moslem pupils, we can see Australian Islam being a beacon for freedom for apostasy, blasphemy, impiety, freedom of association and assembly and speech, and an end to forced marriages and women having to get about in body bags.

But Foxy’s list of the four vaguely identified principles is wide open to taqiyya (Google it) and doesn’t touch on the widespread belief (I’d call it fact) that the bridge-head given to Islam is a force against the human liberty that we’ve a right to take for granted.

But I wouldn’t ban Islam – merely crack down hard on every call to enforce its theocratic rules

Dear Emperor Julian,

Please read the three links I have given on Malik's
3 lectures. It may clarify a great deal on what
moderate Islamic Scholars like Malik believe and
try to teach, and what they think of Muslim extremists
who give every Muslim a bad name. The problem is
that the moderates don't as a rule get as much
publicity as the extremists.
I agree with you 100 per cent,
those that break our laws should be punished.

There are deep splits between Muslim groups in Australia.

"The mainly moderate Bosnian Australian community refused to accept the fundamentalist Taj El-Din Hilaly (an Arab born in Egypt) as Australia's mufti. Victorian Imams do not recognise Hilaly. Hilaly, who supports terrorism and the Islamic conquest of the entire world." (Wiki)

Unfortunately, the Lakemba mosque has not been served well by some religious teachers, Hilaly being one. Many "lessons" and propaganda will have to be "un-taught." Hopefully, this is possible.

Aftab Malik is indeed a worthy Muslim.

However, the message he is teaching indicate the problems he has encountered.

1) Muslims need to be merciful to themselves and others.

2) Knowledge about Islam had to be taken from authoritative individuals and not autodidacts.

3) Shariah (Islamic Law) is not a static force, but something that is fluent and dynamic as those interpreting it.

4) Religious extremism (or zealots) has no place in the faith and it needed to be rejected.

Foxy,

As is my common practice, I choose to ignore your rudeness directed at me. However it is pleasing that my post has encouraged you to back-pedal on your sledging of runner. You still made the offensive remark about his mother and wife in the first place and it was irrelevant, unnecessary and spiteful.

You keep avoiding the questions I have put to you, preferring to blame what you allege to be unfair publicity - that you claim doesn't recognise what 'moderates' do. How you imagine that explains the violence in Sydney, or the ethnic criminal take-over of OMG bikies gangs goodness only knows, or the violence in the UK and Europe. However you probably excuse wrong-doers for their behaviour anyway, postulating it is ultimately all society's fault. 'Educate' society, eh Foxy?

While the public perception of violence and terrorism is affected by the reporting of offences, and doubtless you would like censorship that doesn't mention ethnicity of offenders sought by police, none of that explains why some are more implicated in crime and specifically, violence.

While I do not suggest bans, I repeat what I said that the federal government has not done its job in screening migrants and I gave the example of a very stupid decision of Liberal PM,Malcolm Fraser. My comment regarding poor screening certainly includes the economic migrants who arrive courtesy of the criminal gangs involved in people smuggling.