The Church's history on counselling married couples has been questionable - especially considering the position of women. Especially so as regards to separation and divorce.

I personally know of a case where an abused woman died under iffy circumstances. The cleric who told me piously observed that she "had earned her crown in heaven".

Personally, I don't think this was a good resolution to her marital problems.

Danielle, <but the explanation given was "the circumstances of your birth">

I would very much doubt that illegitimacy was an acceptable reason to knock you back for entry to the (then) Commonwealth Public Service or State public services.

It is possible the papers are still held in archives for you to check, however it is more likely that your nationality was in dispute, or that you were unfortunate enough to have parentage/dual citizenship (or unresolved citizenship) that related to one of the countries affected by the Cold War politics at the time.

Danielle, "As I understand it, some clergy are prepared to marry same sex couples"

That is unsatisfactory to radical gay activists and the political 'Progressives' who have hitched a ride on the gay politics bandwagon and hold the reins. They will demand that all churches perform gay marriages, without exception. They are using gay politics for their own secondary goals, one of which is to disrupt and hopefully destroy the Christian churches and 'traditional' institutions of society. Gays are grist for the mill in their culture war, although some younger radical gay activists share similar aims and are for instance, statists themselves.

onthebeach,

I was born in France and naturalised in Australia (my mother was Australian). But anything is possible, ... and I thank you for your considered thought ...

Regarding radical gays imposing their will as to marriage on Christian churches. I am very uncomfortable with this. I am not a Christian, but believe that whilst the general laity have traditions and tenets of faith they have embraced, have expectations of, and are comfortable with, major issues such as gay marriage should evolve gently and organically in the churches. However, the Papacy is unlikely to ever accept it.

This is why I am in favour of the French system. The civil marriage is the legal marriage; any following religious marriage is optional and is "icing on the cake". Religious marriage carries no weight in law.

If gays are genuine about having the same rights as heterosexual marriage, then it would be to their benefit if they looked at the French model, in principle, instead of trying to force beliefs on others who may not be ready for this type of enlightenment. The latter can only be divisive.

Is it that some gays would not feel married, unless married in a church? Or is it that they want all the "bells and whistles"? I doubt very much that many, if any, gay couples would cease cohabitation with their partner, if not married in a church?

To me this is the real and sole issue of demanding a church wedding - religious reasons.... The belief that civil unions alone are not valid in the eyes of god ... Church marriage alone provides this. I am not currently involved in the gay community, so I do not know if any have voiced this as a reason for a church wedding.

In countries such as the Netherlands where gay marriage has been a fact for years, very few gays get married. Why not?

In Australia, where the Gillard federal government removed all possible discrimination against homosexuals with numerous law changes and Centrelink made special arrangements to sensitise its policies to gays and staff received special training, very few gays took advantage of the provision, now requirement, to advise of couple status. Why not?

The push is by Gay Pride activists to normalize homosexuality and destroy out democratic right to hold an opinion on abnormal same sex practices. They intend to claim discrimination against persons who claim marriage is the exclusive contract between a man and a woman. Churches cannot refuse to marry them or consider them not married in the sight of God. In their agenda this is discrimination!

Most homosexuals are not into this agenda just those who are overtly into a public display of their pride.

Josephus,

To insist on marriage in a church would imply that they are committed religious and that they seek a marriage valid in the sight of god. By logical extension - as in the case of religious heterosexuals - if there was an impediment to marrying in a church - they would not seek marriage outside the church, nor would they live together.

I don't know what the situation is today, but in the past some churches liked evidence of affiliation and practice within the particular religion when marrying a couple. This didn't necessarily preclude marriage, but was raised. Possibly a consideration as to the couple's sincerity as far as religion went.

Isn't there pastoral counselling required prior to marriage within certain religions now?