I will leave good union official/bad union official for another thread both exist and always have.
But I am a bush bred Aussie and never left a job that did not see the boss ask me to stay in my life.
Even as a whistle blower in a state government department, one of those I was aiming at asked me to stay.
So pale no bludgers here, one of your valued workers in fact.
Some farmers have always treated employees like property.
Some think they own workers and even inform them how to behave on weekends it town.
Not all but , never forget workchoices is just another chain in such hands.
In my small country village ,as I watch the dawn service on TV and remembered Anzac day.
Our local timber mill workers left home at the same time as any day 4 am to work.
What chance of the day of boss?
NONE mate.
Saturday is out of the question then, pale how much damage will your red necks do before its enough?

Belly
Saw mills dont run themselves. You should know that. Nor do farms.
Now tell me -did these blokes ask for Anzac day off to go to the service? At the bosses expense?
Or did they ask him a few weeks before if they could attend the Service - without pay for a few hours then come back into the Mill?
I put it to you it does not require the 'whole day" off to show your respect to our fallen.
Personally I dont know anybody who runs a saw mill[ in particular in a small country town that would not feel deeply for our Anzacs.
I think your Saw Mill boss was possibly on to them that they expected HIM to Pay them for a "free day." All day!

AND Why should Your unions stop me from bring in WA abattoir workers to run my business?

You think thats! fair?
Its the only industry not allowed.
Now isnt THAT interesting.?
Do you have any idea that the farmers are being lied to?
Do you understand that the corps and middle men are making huge proffits with their trade deals?
Do you understand that Labour are supposed to stand up for these people?
Do you understand that despite zillions of offers to farmers federations MLA Austrade and others to bring in business people from Middle East To meet Farmers Direct - They WONT EVEN TELL THEM ABOUT THIS OFFER?

Dont you think the farmers ought to be given the chance to make up their own minds?
Dont you see that once you introduce a farmer to a rich ,middle east buyer of meat that farmer will NEVER look back

Why didnt labour disclose the AWB interests into live exports.
Why are the AMIEU so quiet?

I think anybody who calls somebody under four days notice and tells them they must work the next weekend should be fined!
Of course they must respect their workers.
Ask your Julia why I cant get the same Choices?
How come unions can STOP ME opening a business!
Choices huh!
Nor are we JH fans

The thread is about understanding workchoices yet you come running in throw insults and miss information at it.
Then asked to explain your posts you widen the subject to include pale and much more.
You ramble on about poor workers and appear to invent reasons we should continue to import foreign workers and muddy waters hide the truth.
Standing for election to Howard's team are you? you show real form!
In the headlong rush to insult workers who are mostly not unionists farmer ,some by far not all, often hide behind the fact wages on offer to workers are third world.
We hear of fruit rotting on the ground as pickers refuse to live in dreadful conditions and work for $7 an hour less than they would get holding a stop and go bat at home.
It is so easy for some to forget a farmer owns the farm, massive capital held ,while a workers, one of generations who made that wealth may own only a caravan.
Why can you think some live only to serve?
How can you not think as much of these workers as you do sheep?
How can you talk of treating good workers well but not understand some never treat any worker well?
Stop insulting unions as a defense to the workchoices you do not and never will understand.
They after all are in no way different than the farmers federation.
Workchoices remains the evil thing it was meant to be, if you have any understanding of it you will know this verbose lie telling leader we have took the very fair go thing out of workchoices he now proudly returns to it.
He can not be believed or trusted and conservative Australia must debate his future now.
Australia must have a strong opposition.
The ALP will supply the strong government.

Belly
You raised the issue of the Saw mill workers wanting to go to Anzac day. I just gave you the counter argument.
However it was a good example of why we terrible bosses do not like unions.
They had LOTS to do with stuffing the abattoir business in Australia up in the first place. Not all but lots.
Yes the AMIEU complain now. Of course they do.
Thats because the 'other greedy lot' ended up saying- Stuff the bloody uions - Well take the bastards alive.[quote]
Mind you if people feel they need them or want them they should have that choice- I agree.

No I am not on John Howards side either.

Now "you raised" the Farmers Federation GOOD.
Let me tell you about them .
They 'refuse' to pass on valable information to Farmers.

Its the farmers we support one hundred percent belly.

We have offered to introduce fruit farmers meat farmers to people overseas wishing o meet them DIRECT!

Staff to pick fruit- and run abattoirs with vaule adding, No problem.
Please dont say we are taking Aussie jobs either because we dont have people in regional areas to take them.

Why? because over the years the regional areas have come to a stand still.

The farmers kids leave for the city to find jobs and a life.

Why? because both sides of politics Libera;l and Labour have allowed our natual rescourse to be shipped off in their most vaulable form- ie - bi- products made from the insides of animals - tans hides million more. Not to mention the jobs in regional areas for IT mechanics packaging companies electrical.

Its stuffed the nation!

You go on about being fair but I note not a word about us being unfairly treated by blocking us opening abattoirs in WA?

Thats Ok Is it? What Choice do WE have?

Just because you are a farmer who is asset rich and cash poor is not a good argument for denying workers the right to enter in collective bargaining for decent wages and conditions.

Just because the Farmers Federation collects money from every farmer in WA and lobbys government on behalf of Timbercorp, Waterwheel, Monsanto and Cubby Downs who pay the big subscriptions does not mean that small farmers should take it out on other people.

When you are unable to negotiate a good farm gate price for your product when you negotiate directly with Coles or Woolworths you are in exactly the same position as the 16 year old check out chick trying to get an after school job at Coles or Woolworths.

If the retail workers get poor pay they will eat sausages not steak, use powdered milk not fresh milk, buy canned / frozen vegetables from South Africa not Australia because the Australian produce is more expensive.

PALE's arguments about the live sheep trade are confusing, poorly expressed and probably just plain wrong.

The WA Farmers Federation introduced live sheep exports in 1978 to break the power of the meat workers union. Livestock die in transit to port, further beasts die when they are acclimatised to pellet feed prior to embarkation and further beasts die in transit on board ship. The trade is profitable even if 20% to 30% beasts that leave the farm die in transit. If I was a farmer involved in live sheep transport I would be wondering if I could get a better price ex-farm gate for animals slaughtered in Australia.

The price paid for most farm produce is FOB, Freight on Board.

Getting back to top ender's original question about how to find out information about AWAs. I have signed an AWA in Victoria before the Workchoices legislation came in and I think the same mechanism applied.

My biggest concern was that I signed an abbreviated contract that mentions
- 38 hours work a week
- entitlement for sick leave, holiday leave for full time employees
- rate of pay
- superannuation payments are deducted

I was employed as a casual and the contract did mention conditions that concern casuals like
- minimum call out times

At 11:30 one day I was asked to go to work at 2:30, I drove across to the workplace and the supervisor said that I wasn't needed that day. What about cost of transport to work?

I then discovered the employer hadn't lodged a complete copy of the contract with any government authority or third party.

So although I quoted ABS figures of 400,000 AWAs lodged in the first 12 months of operation, it isn't mandatory to lodge AWAs with anyone.

Workchoices operates in an environment of secrecy where the employer can offer what ever conditions he can get away with. If no one talks or discusses pay then the employer can pay differential rates.

Many other work is now done on a contract basis. Many workers in weak bargaining positions are on "take-it-or-leave-it" contracts. These workers can have 3 or 4 years of university training behind them.
Or they are skilled tradesmen not working on large inner city multistorey developments
In fact 40% of staff in Victorian schools are on contract and perhaps 60% of nurses are employed casually.
Most call centre operators in the finance industry are casuals.

Organisations who rely on casuals for their labour force have to design the job to be as simple as possible and are not able to offer their students, patients, clients the specialised service that their fees may lead them to believe they are entitled to. Customers are going to feel increasingly disgruntled.