The Mining Bosses and small business owners of Australia have said they want the changes.
They are rather cross with Howard.
John Howard has already made it clear that a certain type of person may need extra protection which he is prepaired to give.
I am just wondering what more you want?
I mean do you really want to be forced to pay union fees whether your a member or not?
Likewise do you want your kids to be forced to pay these fees.
If you stop to think about it I know which offer is the more fair to all.
Remember all this from somebody would protests against Howards lack of action towards Animal Welfare.
I am just trying to point out to others whats hidden with the other team to be fair.
Either way it makes no difference to me.
I just dont want to see people who are already struggling to pay off a house being shocked when they are slugged with an extra cost to go into building up the union bosses kitty.
Its wide open for that. Its all there for you to read.
Goodnight all.

PALE Please understand I am not able to discuss any issue with you without my view you are unaware of the true nature of issues coming out.
You claim I think bosses are evil, or wrong in any dispute? on what evidence?
In what post of mine did you find that view?
Your total failure to understand workchoices is on display in every post you mention it.
You fail to understand all who work, far more than union members are victims of a system that implies Australians are not equal, not able to in some cases even hope for a better life because of workchoices.
Just one point , unless you are truly aware you would not know unions are different.
I have never stood over a boss, I have at times expressed the view just maybe some had parents who had not troubled themselves with a wedding.
But I am proud to tell you my little lost sheep ,with the deepest respect to you, I am more than welcome in most bosses offices and the workers lunch rooms.
Find a way to understand workchoices.
Find a way to see why this government is so low in the polls.
But find a way to care for John Howard's victims as much as you care for animals.
workchoices has been over cooked Howard said he would not change it Australia said it would be changed.
Kevin Rudd will change it, conservative Australia will wonder why they could not see it before the train wreck.
John Howard may well be just telling us another lie, after all it has become his stock in trade to lie.

Does PALE have the same mentality that existed amongst coal bosses in the early 1920s and 1930s?

When it became illegal for women and children to work in New South Wales underground coal mines in about 1910 - 1920 they were replaced by pit ponys. pony = horse Look at photos of Illawarra coal mines about 1905 to see all the workers - women and boys included.

By the 1920s the pit ponys worked underground for one week in 3. Admittedly they were hoisted down for their week of work and stayed there until they were hoisted up. The other 2 weeks they stood in the paddock soaking up the sunshine and eating grass. Men had 2 weeks holiday a year.

I have just posted the figures about AWAs gleaned from the Sydney Morning Herald in Under Labor, 'no ticket, no start' is back at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5806

In summary there are
306,400 AWAs signed
22,000 mining industry AWAs
1.12 million contractors, eg plumbers, electricians, teachers, nurses, consultant engineers, IT
1.22 million owner managers of unincorporated businesses
673,000 owner managers of incorporated businesses
1.79 union members
10 million in workforce

Pales Mentality is not at question here.
Whats at question - and I will give you just ONE example under labour is why ONLY abattoir workers are not allowed into WA.

'your U.S.

To stop private enterprise and progress is not going to help Australian Farmers.
Its not going to help with employment- especially in the regional areas and it convicts many more animals to suffer at the hands of the cruel live export trade.

To be perfectly honest with you - If you cant see that it is unfair to target one particular group of workers but allow others to bring in staff to make up for the shortage of skilled labour then you cant be paying with a full stack of cards.
It seems the lights are on but nobody is home.

I have employed staff all my life.
The good ones were well looked after.
I wont be told I have to keep a lazy their theif on by anybody.
My friend had a suspected case of a child abuser. He complained to some union that he was being picked on.
He went on to maul children
She complained to a current affair who ran a story on this unfair dismissal thing years ago.
Point is had she ben allowed to act it would not have happend.
What type of person needs somebody to hold their hand while seeking employment? What Boss needs an outsider sticker their nose in?
The only people who want these laws are the ones that like the free sicky and the free this and free that.
Get over it the country cant afford a nation of bludgers.

In 1912 In Brisbane a mob of butchers took to the streets.
They all took days off because they were asked not to wear their badges with their union numbers on them by the bosses.
No idea why- or better still, why that would be important in the first place. Maybe someone just told them it was and let the mob mentality do the rest.
There was twenty five thousand. They were joined by another 50 thousand in St Georges Square. That would make 75 thousand people not at work that day. Hardley good for the State or small business.
Oh and of COURSE they all expected to be paid on top of it.

On the 25 2 1912[ They called it black friday] A group of women protesting over the same thing.
A 73 year old woman saw the The Police Commissioner and took out her hat pin and stuck it hard into his horse.

The Police Commissioner`s name at that time was Patrick Caul.
He walked with a limp for the rest of his life. The horse was rumoured destroyed.
I might add their animal welfares about the same. In the 1930s our Brisbane ports took our fleece to the world. Not now of course.

You lot and complained and put many good people out of business.
Funny how some things never change.
There were people way back then that would happily take over their jobs.
People who just wanted work. A fair days work for a fair days pay.

Why do you think the new comers have thrived in Australia.

Look at people from Italy. They came and grow their tomatoes while we all laughed.
They worked hard as a family and brought into many corner stores or market gardens.
Didnt ask for hand outs and didnt complain.
Didnt strike. Said they felt lucky to be in Australia.
Yeh There are work choises in Australia> choose the work- Or want free holidays sickies and much more and more and more and more and - put a lot od small business out of business.

Thanks For The memories.!

Pale is of little worth ,much like this federal government you trade in lies and half truths.
Workchoices you implie is about bludgers who will not work but want pay.
You say it is about unions who stand over bosses to get the jobs of thieves back.
If this trip away from reality is not enough to blacken you nothing will be.
I note that threads you start about pale are lurching further from pure truth each month, and are not finding posters in great numbers.
So if you intend to invade threads with such dreadful impacts on workers who have never been in a union, simple low income people who could never afford to be in a union.
Be honest about it workchoices is about all who work, it is about not being able to take the kids to weekend sports, it is about an Aussie fair go and a culture under insulting attack.
John Howard's late entry into the fair go stakes is against every thing he has ever said about workchoices.
He shames himself by denying his claims it was always fair.
And I ask is he telling the truth this time?
His scheme at best is peeing on a bush fire.
Good unions ,bad unions it surely is a separate issue?
Union power? bosses unions or workers ones? one is bound in the corner one free to run wild.
WHY?
Only pale could claim post workchoices unions have any real power or the bosses ones do not.