The outcry against the infallable (Catholic Doctrine) Pope continues to grow in the Islamic world.

What did he say ?

He quoted (in a lecture) a 14c Byzantine Emperorer who said:

'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,'

The issue in dispute, is this "Connecting Islam with Violence"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/wl_afp/vaticanpopeislam_060914160443

For the Record, I have begun a debate with a Muslim Scholar (who is a Palestinian) on issues about this.

I referred him to the "Murder of Kaab Bin Ashraf" described (in those words) in the hadith of Muslim.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html
Book 019, Number 4436: <= scroll to this number 4436.

I expected him to DENY that this was a genuine Hadith, but he does not. He just emphasizes the reasons.
-Kaap wrote poetry mocking Mohamed.
-His poetry had 'bite' and was considered ideologically 'dangerous'
-Left unchecked it could have caused people to fight against Muslims.
-He had to die.

His Website: http://www.authenticsunnah.org/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_silas_2.htm

Here is his emailed response:

Secondly, you asked me a yes/no question regarding Kab bin Ashraf and it seems like you want to brush away the reason behind it, which is very important. You want to brush away the fact that Kab bin Ashraf was the person responsible for raising and motivating armies for attacking Medina and trying to wipe out the Muslims. That the only way to stop this man was to kill him in order to protect the lives of hundreds and maybe thousands. you want to forget this important fact huh?

COMMENT
I find it difficult to escape the conclusion that criticizing Islam will lead to VIOLENCE. Because of the EXAMPLE of its founder.
This Muslim also supports Mohameds's mutilation of prisoners describing it as 'justice'.

CONTINUED.

The ironic thing here, is that the comment of the Pope simply 'quoting' a 14c Emporer, and his being criticized for linking "Islam with violence" is now DEMONSTRATING the very thing he is criticized for.

WHERE WILL THIS LEAD ?

Personally, I think this will make the Danish Cartoon affair look like small potatoes.

FRANCE... Catholic, but lots of Muslims. Recent riots... ?

This is the : "Infallible head of Christs Church in the World, the spritual successor of St Peter" in the view of all Catholics. (not my view, but it is theirs)

Given that the World Catholic population is MASSIVE, it remains to be seen just how this pans out.
Can they apologise for their pope ? Hardly.

Should they ? Not at all.
Should he ? Not in a million years.

Should Steve Bracks get on his case using the wet lettuce leaf RACIAL AND RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE ACT 2001 ?

IF Muslims in Melbourne begin burning Effigies of the Pope will THEY BE CHARGED under this act for 'INCITING HATE' ?

Ohhhhh yes Mr Bracks.... NOWWWW the chickens are coming home to roost on this STUPID law....

Will we see 'even handed' use of this law ? OR... will we see pathetic appeasement ? (which of course will result in community OUTRAGE and a growing hatred ANYway....)

Will we see street confrontations between Catholics and Muslims ?

“COMMENT
I find it difficult to escape the conclusion that criticizing Islam will lead to VIOLENCE. Because of the EXAMPLE of its founder.”

I agree totally, BD. Islam is a violent religion, but we should not avoid criticising it for fear there will be violence. Muslims need to realise that we can give it as well as take it. We have shown great tolerance for Islamic tantrums, and the Muslims are starting to think that they can do as they please. As my wife commented last night as we watched Islamic nutters burning an effigy of the Pope, each time they are accused of violence, intolerance and cruelty, they hit the streets – proving that the criticism of them is correct.

“
Will we see street confrontations between Catholics and Muslims ?”

Yes. We probably will. But not just between Catholics and Muslims. Between Muslims and everybody else. Islam has been loose in the West long enough now to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that it simply cannot and will not fit in with the rest of the world. Islam is 1400 years behind, and we simply cannot wait for them to catch up.

I was really surprised that Pope Benedict made such forth right non PC statements.Be assured these would have been carefully thought out statements and not just off the cuff.The Muslim reaction was predictable with Catholic Churhes being bombed and Muslims baying for blood.

Just where the Pope wants to take the debate next is a puzzle to me.Many forces on this planet seem to be standing up to Muslim aggression and calling it as it is.Will our next war be fought over religion?

Sorry to disappoint but from what I have heard the Pope has already apologized.

Before the controversy I read that the Pope was simply giving a lecture at the University of Regegnsburg and quoted historical Emperor Manuel II Paleologus. This included the negative comments about Muslims but was used for its argument that violence is incompatible with the nature of God. I believe that the Emperor had formulated the argument citing Muslims as an example of a religion where they were getting it wrong. The Pope was not issuing a carefully prepared attack on Islam based on some infallible doctrine. He also quoted St Paul and Psalm 115. I'm sure he would have preferred if the media associated those quotes with him instead.

Due to the media reports which probably wanted to stir things up so that they could have more to report Muslims misunderstood that the Pope was quoting someone else in that part of the lecture and expressed themselves in their inimicable way. When the Pope became aware of the misunderstanding I believe that he did apologize.

Of course that is just what I have heard....

It's ridiculous that the Pope should apologise, and I'm not even Catholic! Does anyone in the west have any balls anymore?

As for some impending conflict between the west and Islam, I don't really see it. There will, of course, be some minor skirmishes. However, I think Islam is on its way out. Here's why:

Where it exists in the west, ultimately it will push its luck, and that will backfire on it. If it really gets remotely to the point where an Islamic minority wants to roll back a whole lot of the western liberal tradition, the majority of people out there will say, "enough is enough", even if the media, academia, etc. won't, and these radical ratbags will have to pull their heads in tout de suite, as some might say.

Where Islam exists on its own terms, it's never going to be a contender for the title because as Matt Damon's character says so brilliantly in Syriana, "after oil, your next major export is second hand goods, followed by dates", in other words, most of the Islamic world produces bugger all of any worth to anyone. It can hardly export its military or cultural power without economic power.

Secondly, and most importantly (indeed, what's driving this), the mindset of Islam is stuck somewhere in some so-called Golden Age in the Dark Ages. The west lives here, right now. So does China. So does India. The Caliphate becomes less and less relevant with each passing day.

I think Islam is like a dying sun going through its last brief flash before it collapses and disappears. Islam, as a whole, realises how at odds it is with the modern world and how it either has to adapt or die. We just have to ride that out, but I don't see it as anything more than nuisance value.