More valuable perspectives. Thanx.

I'll be most interested to see if Islam fades with the end of oil, but, I suppose its like the old J curve in economics. If demographics in Europe work faster to promote Islamic influence there, and Oil does not diminish fast enough to see them with 'bugga all' then it could get very ugly.

The responses to a misunderstanding of the Popes use of the quote are clearly a demonstration of the truth of him being reported at least to connect Islam with violence.

Just this morning I heard on the news that "Quran Classes" in the Uni environment for overseas students, are being used to promote less than healthy ideas about international relations to be circumspect.

The most worrying thing about Islam as a social/political/spiritual force, is the degree to which is is grounded in military concepts.

Mohameds first formal 'Islamic State' was in Medina (read up on the "Pact of Medina") and he established treaties with the tribes.
Kaab was assasinated due to his breach of this treaty, but the point remains. Political control is the key to Islamic power and success.

Ali Mohamed, terrorist arrested around WTC bombing time, disclosed much useful intelligence and said "Without Political power, Islam cannot survive"...

MJPB I totally agree that it would have been nicer if the Pope had been reported for the other Scriptures, but in this capitalistic and opportunistic world, we all know that 'controversy and sex' are what sell newspapers :)

That underlines though, just how Muslims view criticism, and how they respond.

Shorbe.. Balls.. yep.. we need more verbal warriors, but like me, they should use 'pen names' :) or risk their families exposed to danger. I'm going to do a web site in the future about these issues.

The best defense to such threats is a strong, robust,confident and well defined culture and society not plagued by self doubt and infighting or diverse conflicting interests. They are the major goals I use OLO to promote, apart from my (2 some)'Bible Bashing' rants :)

BOAZ_David: I don't think the J curve you mention will hurt the west. Sure, Islam is growing in the west and sure most people in the west are reproducing below replacement levels. However, oil will run out and be replaced anyway (due to it being too expensive) some time this century, most likely in the first half. As such, that doesn't give Islam anywhere near enough time to get a real foothold in the west, which is a whole different set of issues to Islam outside the west. They're related, but quite distinct I think.

Also, China will increasingly come to odds with Islam (whether through trying to gain influence in central Asia or in the Middle East proper, or as far afield as SE-Asia or parts of Africa). It might be in the short term interests of Islam (most notably through Iran), China, maybe even Russia, to form some unholy alliance to counter the U.S. and west in general, but ultimately it would fail. China is not compatible with, or open to, Islam (both ideologically and demographically). Islam would then realise that a much bigger, bolder threat had snuck in the back door. I think that China would deal with Islamic extremists far more ruthlessly. The west has to pussy foot around if only because of public opinion. China wouldn't hesitate to cause major destruction (possibly of the nuclear kind) though and there wouldn't be the internal division we would have here over such a response.

Incidentally, if you want someone to write a non-PC appraisal of Islam from a secular-humanist/liberal perspective, I'd write something for your website.

It is a wonderful day, the Pope is human and also fallable.
The previous Pope who was fighting with the Jews.
Our present Pope as a true German, fought most of his life against the Jews.
So to make recompense he has a serve on the Muslims.
Poor man he was only trying to "stir the possum."

David BOAZ , truth is stranger than fiction, its a pity you do not know what the truth is, as a Catholic I am not happy with what the Pope said, he should be sacked, because he is not following in the footsteps of Christ, some facts for you to add to your knowledge.
The Qur,an at no point urges that religious faith be imposed on anyone by force, this is what it says about religions:
[2:62] those who believe [ in the Qur,an] and those who follow the Jewish [scriptures], and the Christians, and the Sabians_ any who believe in God and the last day, and work in righteousness, shall have their reward with the Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. in fact ,the Qur,an also urges reasoned faith and also forbids coercian in religion, the only violence urged in the Qur,an is in self-defence of the Muslim community against the attempts of the Pagan Meccans to wipe it out,
Of course, Christianity itself has a long history of imposing coerced faith on people, including Pagans in the Roman Empire, who were forcibly converted, and then there were the episodes of the crusades, I challange David Boaz to give some thought to using the truth , your ficticious rantings , are not of this world, athair_siochain

The Popes comments---- I am afraid there is more to this event than a slip of the tongue on the part of the Pope or simple ignorance of Islam. It comes at a time of increasingly heated rhetoric against political Islam and Islamic resistance movements such as Hizbullah and Hamas ,as well as Iran, It has to be seen in the same context as Bush,s recent adoption of the "Islamic fascists" label to denigrate political Islam, Isreal and the neocons keep talking about and preparing for a "long war" or World War and the "clash of civilizations" against Islam, Bush compares this stuggle with the stuggle against the NAZIS,

These comments by the Pope have to be seen as the opening shot and a major auillary to shaping political/ military confrontation, if this is the case, then this is a significant escalation that is catapulting us indeed towards what might become an irreversible clash of civilizations and a new crusade, God help Us,

What can we do, I believe we have to call all religions together to pray for the Pope, ask God to forgive him, enough has been said , blaming Catholics for what the Pope said ,is the same as blaming Muslims for the actions of insane individuals, athair-siochain

The reaction to Pope's comments:

Iraqi jihadists issued a video showing a scimitar slicing a cross in two, intercut with images of Benedict and the burning Twin Towers.

The website run in the name of the Mujahedeen Army, used by extremist groups who have claimed responsibility for attacks in Iraq, was addressed to "You dog of Rome" and threatened to 'shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home.'

In a reference to suicide bombing, it said: "We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life."

Sister Leonella Sgorbati, 66, was shot four times as she walked from the children's hospital where she worked to her house in Mogadishu

Early in the day in Iran, powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom that if there was no apology, 'Muslims' outcry will continue until he fully regrets his remarks.

'The Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam.'

In London demonstrators outside the Roman Catholic Westminster Cathedral carried placards saying 'May Allah Curse the Pope' and 'Trinity of Evil: Christian Crusade Against Islam'.

The demonstrators also carried signs that aimed at offending the religious sentiments of Christians by suggesting that 'Jesus will raise the sword of Islam' and 'Jesus is the slave of Allah'.

I love Islam. It is indeed a Religion of Peace