Don't mind Constance, Folks...it's obviously time for her latest "Lexi bash".

I challenge you all to have a peek at her posting history for the last six months - and tot up the amount of posts she uses to impugn Lexi.

Noting she was back again today, I wondered how long she'd be able to resist.

(Weird!)

To everyone who has posted their comments on this thread, I would like to say that despite your differences you represent a cross section of our society as a whole. You also have in total many years of experience and knowledge. Why then, instead of a vitriolic display of political preferences, and denigration of each other's posts and personalities, can't you put forward some apolitical and constructive ideas on what is so obviously a very large issue for all of us?

Some positive ideas would be a welcome change from slanging off at each other. Or are we doomed to emulate our leaders and opposition? Make lots of noise, call each other names, but in the summing up -achieve nothing.

True debate appears to have become secondary. Life for all of us is not a game,and all important issues deserve a serious approach which will satisfy at least a majority, while acknowledging there will always be a minority who think differently. It's called democracy.

So far it would appear to have become a verbal battle and an attempt at point scoring which could go on ad infinitum. Surely we can do better than that - put aside our differences and examine the subject dispassionately? Who knows, maybe we could come up with new ideas if we'd just co-operate with each other? As our leaders appear so unable
to do this for us, maybe we can offer them our suggestions. I've been told that 1 letter to an M.P. is taken as representing 100 people. Have never been able to ascertain if that's true, but heck, it's worth a try isn't it?

A couple of real examples...

On "Adam Hill Tonight", Les Murray (soccer commentator) described how his family paid people smugglers to escape Hungary in 1956: 'I'm grateful to them'. He noted that businessman Frank Lowy was a similar refugee.

'The Australian' today: A 23yr old man who arrived on a boat, now on a bridging visa in Australia with no working rights. A Kurd, his family fled from persecution in Iraq to Iran. He was born in Iran but is a stateless person - as a non-citizen there, he had no rights and worked illegally. He cannot be deported - Iran will not accept him. He seems to be both a refugee (since Kurds seem to be persecuted everywhere) and an economic migrant. Yes, presumably he could have stopped in Indonesia etc. but he had no future there either. Why should we regard him as a terrorist? Why not as an future Les Murray and Frank Lowy?

SPQR: Actually the boat for refugees from Australia to NZ was a <<joke>>!! But see John Marsden's "Tomorrow when the war began" for a similar scenario.

Seriously though, "why does it have to be a affluent Western country". Because whether you are a refugee or an economic migrant, why would you aim for anything less that an affluent country where there were great opportunities? Why not Australia which has built itself on migration? It's the intelligent choice and one worth taking risks for.

"Like a lot of those on your side of the debate you appear to have something of a Robin Hood complex." I see myself as an extremely pragmatic almost libertarian on this subject - we should welcome anyone who is smart and cunning enough to get to Australia by their own actions (including paying people smugglers) because they will be smart and cunning enough to succeed here (as long as we don't lock them up in limbo for years). Do we really want people who sit passively for years in a refugee camp and meekly obey all the bureaucratic rules? I think the people who say "oh but they broke the rules! oh but they jumped the queue" are wishy-washy. What about the great Australian larrikin spirit of flouting authority and bureaucracy? Isn't Ned Kelly's our great icon?

A subject that now and forever divides us.
Any side can make a case why the other is wrong.
Sometimes however that case is constructed of straw.
Would it be true to say most , well enough to change governments, want it stopped.
Can we ask, those of us concerned about the impacts of boat people make the claim.
The claim that if we make it easier the numbers coming will increase.
In the end are the people of other persuasions than Liberal, prepared to see Liberals win election after election on this issue?
Without Rudd,s visit and its coming changes that is assured.

Jayb you received "A good Catholic Education" did you?, Was that at the hands of the "Christian Brothers"? Were you an "Altar Boy"? Did "Father" fill you with bread and wine and then take you to the presbytery to absolve you of your "mortal sins".
From your posts I'm sure you must have "experienced" all the "joys" that the catholic clergy could bestow upon a good little altar boy such as yourself.