Yes indeed ! Give that old dog a good kick in the guts !

Joe

P.S. No animals were harmed in making this comment.

David F, you have to understand that you are the minority, as the majority vote for the member that represents the party they wish to govern.

Unfortunately this election will be one that is lost, rather than one that is won, if that makes sense.

Now if that party has an unpopular leader, like Gillard, they will simply not vote for labor.

I would go even further to suggest that if K Rudd were to exit politics right now, that labor's primary would plumit, I was going to say hit rock bottom, but I think they are already there.

In my involvement in politics, from about the early 80's, there have been two popularly elected PM's, Hawlk and Rudd, and ironically, they were both labor and they were both dumped by their own parties, not their voters.

I was a huge fan of Bob, still am in fact, I also don't mind Rudd but it's labor, or should I say, today's labor that I would never vote for, unless of cause they were to go back to basics and be there for the people, not the unions.

As for Rudd though, I could never forgive him for what he has done to our borders.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/women-at-stake-in-ugly-debate-20130620-2olps.html
morning o sung wo and all others.
First lets take in the recent history of the ALP.
Some must research but others lived in the time of the split ALP/DLP.
Communism, in far different times, had supporters in the ALP.
DLP/Catholic split came about as Labor had both the faceless men, a Communist invention? well not Democratic and near total control by Unions.
On running for ALP leadership the big fella E G Witlam, had first to go to and get permission from Charlie Oliver AWU head and very powerful right wing faction head.
Any review of the years 1972 till 1975 will clearly show the big bloke *constantly* had to fight union factions, most left but not all.
Stay with me, todays ALP is suffering too, because as it was then,power over ruled policy's.
So in no small part Labor helped bring about its own down fall.
Why hang the dirty washing out to dry?
Because it is my view only the ALP wants to defend the workers and true poor.
ONLY the ALP brings in my view change for the better.
Last, current policy,s of both sides scream to me Labor should be lengths in front, but read the link.
The silver Bodgy bought the ALP nearer its true supporters than any past party leadership even Ben Chifly.
He too bought the unions with him, bar some lost leftys.
The accord put our country,s economy first.
And the right in the ALP took what it must have, control.
continued

After the silver fox we got Keiting,
His speech writer should be shot!
The constant repeating, mad as a hatter stuff.
He told us we had to have the 17% interest and Australia said he had to go.
A blackness, for all those Australians who are not Liberals or Nationals,
Named John Winston Howard, he was a politician.
He could sell his party and views to a degree no one for 40 years could.
He tapped in to our minds, he stop the boats, and for any reason you name we wanted the boats stopped.
Big bright and smiling Kim, a bloke few could not love took the ALP after Latham and Crean, two who walked arm in arm with Gillard,[welcome back Simon] had kicked us in the head.
After winning both houses, from a mad dream that Labor briefly thought was its future,Howard owned for his lifetime that office.
Some will scream in indignation, but work choices and nothing else beat Howard.
Few know but JWH hated union heads the power they had the funds they gave the ALP.
He should have seen work choices flogged those who had been Howard,s Battlers.
Nothing but work choices could have removed him.
Labor was as is the case now, infighting, our best union said not Rudd.
Australia wanted him,and got him.
Rudd, powerful men used to doing as they wished, could not get near Rudd.
Some great unionists but as uneducated about how voters and union members thought, axed the Golden goose.
And even today, watch it, put factions/self ahead of the party.
A blood bath is about to take place soon the ALP after much pain will be for the good
Last consider this,how can a party walk to the chopping block knowing removing its unloved and not trusted head will give it a chance.
Show me evidence those thinking that is ok are fit to be cleaners in Parliament.
Bring back Kevin Rudd and bring in the new brooms, nothing is too good for the voters of Australia, but some think nothing is too bad.

o sung wo posted then read in a thread I knew my position on.
Mate we share the black dog, men are better at hiding it than women, but both sex's get it.
On the blackest morning try to remember in a very short time you became one of this forums best.
And will be missed.
I think it is time to remind posters the ALP is our oldest party, it has been this low before and if nothing else Lexis post proves the internal mutterings are letting a party with few policy's have a walk over victory.
History will remember Gillard, but if she drags my party down not in a nice way, go Madam go.

Belly, the more I think about it, the more I think that Rudd doesn't want the top job, as I think he is going to exit politics, most likely to some cushy job he has in waiting. However, his presence provides a glimmer of hope for the believers.

The 07 election was unique, in the fact that we had a clear winner, AND a clear looser in the one election.

The overwhelming winner was Rudd and the looser was Howard.

The trouble is, that people's stand against work choices,fueled by the unions anti campaign, turned out to be a very bad error in judgement, evidence being the mess we are now in, our borders shot to pieces, and the $400billion odd we now owe, with no real prospects of how we age going to repay the debt, especially post the mining boom, a reallity now.

What few understand about work choices, is that it directly effected very few people, as there were more jobs than workers, so anyone effected was obviously a very poor or low skilled workers, with very few choices.

As I say, a huge error in judgement.