For give them! Labor weighted down in good policy,s is still waiting for Gillards J curve.
It came, and went, about the week after she confronted Abbott re his not able to be hidden attitude to women.
It is there still, just as surely as the southern cross shines in the sky.
Sadly for Labor PTY LTD,an association of power brokers and useless union heads, it is up side down and not going to change.
AH But!
A true, real chance exists those who knifed Rudd/installed the J curves owner Gillard, may yet knife her, truly!
A leader picked at random, from any street in any town , could do better than Gillard.
SO? rebuilding Labor after the thrashing will be my contribution to this thread if we get a start.
First step, find a job out side Parliament for Gillard, Conroy, QLD voters are looking after Swan ,and the most likely to be new leader Bill Shorten, lots of class but blind as a bat in reading public opinion, a skill the party,s owners all lack.
Do more to remove those *owners if we get a run*
No party should think it can insult its members by the way, ALP goon show owners have much to answer for.

Dear Belly,

The PM wanted the job. Even John Howard, John Hewson,
and Malcolm Fraser admit that there's no shame in
having ambition. She may have helped dispose of her
predecessor, but that only proves the power of the
Party itself. Fixing the problems of the ALP policy
making requires more than changed leadership. The control
by party machine men and relying on bad research to justify
bad policies that prove the government is tougher than the
Opposition would still be there if the PM was removed
or left.

As Eva Cox has pointed out, "It would be way too easy to
blame the PM for the general behaviour and direction of
the Party she formally leads. She is not solely responsible
for the mess Labor is in at present."

The Pm has, as Eva Cox says, "done a good job in holding
together a diverse and quite different group of votes in the
Senate and the House of Reps and has pursued the business of
government with some efficiency, with many bills going
through unopposed and many others passed with narrow margins."

"In that sense, her role, as head of the executive process of
government has been impeccable." So why suggest she goes?

Take a look at Tony Abbott instead. Big on 3 word slogans,
small on policy detail. Simple pledges of negativity that
do little more than emphasise the government's supposed
failings. "Stop the boats" rhetoric only dog whistles the
community's xenophobes and bigots. "Scrap the carbon tax"
comforts only those who think climate change is crap.

It's sad.

We're all the poorer for it. Still there's no shortage of
the natural resources of ignorance, apathy, hate, and fear -
as long as those things are in the collective conscious and
unconscious, and as long as Mr Abbott remains as leader and
preys on these things -
the Liberal Party will get votes. That says a lot about the
gullibility of
many Australians when someone of his calibre gets to be
not only party leader but is given the chance to ascend
further.

Gillard has done so many sleazy deals that you can't buy grease any more. She would of been better to allow Abbott to take control for 3 years instead of doing a deal with the treacherous independants who only sided with her because of their hatred for Abbott and the Nationals. The sleazy smirks have just about disappeared along with their open and accountable Government they promised. The chickens have come home to roost. Now the gw scam has been exposed the voters can see how dishonest the carbon tax is. Man made gw fantasy has now cost Turnbull, Rudd (on Gillards advice) and Gillard their jobs.

Dear Belly,

There you have it - runner's post confirms
what I had stated earlier. There's no shortage
of the natural resources of ignorance, apathy,
hate, and fear - as long as those things are
in the collective conscious and unconscious, the
Liberal Party will get these votes.

Yes Lexi as as an apologist for such a poor performing PM I feel very reassured that your judgement is atrocious. Sure it is not bitterness rather than just anger? Your abbottphobia really appears to get the better of you and your judgement.

Belly, I wouldn't take it too hard : )

Everyone knows it is always swings and roundabouts with politics.
The people will get sick of the Liberals in an election or 2, and then Labor will be back.

The first woman PM was never going to have it easy, in a parliament full of men who all wanted that job.
Especially Abbott, who was defeated by her last time.

I actually can't wait for Abbott to get the big job, because then his true colours will be evident to all. I don't want to read ONE complaint about the holy man from contributors such as Rehctub and Runner. They wouldn't dare!

I see even more trouble ahead, after September...

Lady,s forgive me.
I am, age aside a modern man,and demand a modern party.
One that sees its faults and acts on them.
I often speak of my party,s contributions to 11/11 1979, I was there.
And active, we as now contributed to our down fall,
Lexi ask your self, what of those who voted for the first time, in 2007, and even the not won 2010 elections.
And voted in the first case for Rudd, then not Gillard.
How can we, on any issue, progress without knowing our faults.
Without understanding how others, within our group think.
The morning after the election it will be clear,as it is to understanding people.
Our policy,s play little roll in the out come.
Abbott policy,s and soon to be broken ones, too are not the reason.
Lexi I will not bore you with further use of the truth to explain our fate.
But I will tell of the party we will become if we take reform as our first task.
Labor must give its MPs the right to cross the floor, no party should compels its members to be an unthinking moron, as was done in NSW leading to support for NSW FILTH.
Continued

The ALP MUST address its 40% of safe seats [a small number post election] seats set aside for women, it is discriminatory and as bad as seats for burnt out Union heads.
Only the best should serve, I offer again these words, some true silliness has creped us away from voters.
End power brokers owning the party, or face an event every bit as bad as the DLP split.
Few understand but my glorious party has been dragged in to a sewage treatment plant many times,by Sussex Street, and factions , IMPOSING candidates on membership it steam rolls over.
A truth, Abbott can thank his sponsor for the massive win he has already won.
That sponsor is The Australian Labor Party.
By its actions leaving a very dirty house for the few who follow to clean up and rebuild after 14/11 no easy task.
My words Lexi are apart from true, a demand we except ownership of the Blackened party power brokers have made us.
And a demand they think, if only briefly, back to that night in 2007,and look now at the shattered party they leave us with.
Some one will write a best seller, comparing this election to 1975, we do our party an injustice not seeing the finger prints of power brokers on our hopes and dreams turning to the nightmares to come.

Sadly Belly, it's not the "J" curve you need to worry about, it's the "S" bend.

Dear Belly,

I've pointed out Labor's faults in my previous post.
I simply think it's too easy to keep blaming the PM
for the mess that Labor is in. The problems won't
go away if she's replaced and I can't see the Party
Machine Men giving up their power and control no matter
who's the leader. Labor needs to get back to its
grass roots.

Dear runner,

It's not "Abbottphobia," I have nothing against the man
personally. I simply don't want him as the leader of this
nation. Being big on 3 word slogans and small on policy
detail - does not in my opinion, qualify him for the job
of PM. And his simple pledges of nevativity does little
more than emphasise the government's supposed failings.
His "Stop the Boats," rhetoric only dog whistles the
community's xenophobes and bigots. His "Scrap the Carbon
Tax," comforts only those who think climate change is crap.

Australians deserve a little more respect from the man who
wants to lead the nation. The upcoming election will be held
against a back-drop of a fast-changing world. The central
challenge for political leaders and aspirants is to ensure
Australia's continued economic resilience in this time of
change. Mr Abbott has done nothing to show us his economic
credentials and even he admits that our economy is currently
in good nick.

Come on Suse, you can never apologies enough for a twit like Gillard.

The first woman PM was going to have it hard you say. Of course it has a bit to do with personalities.

If she was a bit like Maggie Thatcher, who hit the UK population right between the eyes, with facts, & truth, she may have done a bit better. How long did Maggie last?

With her personality however, Gillard who could not lie straight in bed, it wasn't going to take long for Ozzies to see right through her.

It will be to our everlasting shame that we let her into the lodge. We are for ever diminished for giving her that job.

Belly - Gillards J curve

As I recall, the J curve was an invention of the Undertaker when he crapped on about the recession we had to have or somesuch twaddle. The red-headed witch would never have had an innovative thought in her life although she excels in lying, distortion, misrepresentation & whatever mischief, so its hardly surprising she lifted the J curve from elsewhere

Its probably fair to say Rabbotts true colours have been visible for quite some time, its only the few colourblind true disciples who can't discern them. I can't go along with the 'holy' bit though, even if its in jest. Surely nobody making a claim of 'holiness' would get involved in the grubby legal game whether they actually practiced or otherwise.

Dear Hasbeen,

Come on. The bar has not been raised very high
with our past PMs. After all - look how long
John Howard was allowed to stay. Look at what
Malcolm Fraser did.
Now it looks like Mr Abbott may be in with a chance as
well. Cardinal Pell will rule that roost.
Take a look at the front bench Abbott's stuck with.
Pleeeeeease!

Lexi,

Once again I find you as an apologist for Juliar. While there are some issues for which she can't be held responsible, the vast majority came direct from her or were sanctioned by her.

Some prime examples:

The carbon tax was her single biggest folly. Her iron clad guarantee followed by an almost immediate backflip on a policy that was so unpopular, would not be forgotten nor forgiven by the voters. It has also made it impossible for Abbott not to repeal it, and it will be come Labor's version of Work choices that it will never touch again.

Similarly her handling of Thomson and Slipper left the whole of the labor government looking sleazy.

Add to this the live export debacle, the asylum seekers, the BER etc, etc. All had her fingerprints on it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-05/labor-mp-draws-titanic-analogy/4734624
Lexi the very saddest thing is not your miss placed hope.
Not Susionlines kind do not let it get me down.
Not Prax inability to understand my discontent has highlighted much more the Gillards knife men.
Today, tell me a am wrong, if Kevin Rudd was recalled , *this would be a close run race*!
Ignore the barbed comments that will bring.
But ignore at your peril Labor just MUST!
Confront its power brokers, knifing Rudd, free ride it gives to NSW FILTH.
No matter how great our fall, its length, time in opposition may break the 23 years record, if it fails to hear voters.
Not you Lexi, not me, but those who swung to us and largely left in 2010, and the hundreds of thousands who, not caring about policy,s, are about toleave.
I stand proud of my demand the party be handed back to its members.
And no longer be a retirement home for ex union heads and *mates* of Sussex street.
Ignore the voice of the people at your peril.
I without holding a ticket, have more chance of winning lotto!
Far more than back bencher's are already looking for a new job.
We, unless we turn on them like mad dogs, will for decades be remembered for not taking on the HSU/NSW FILTH we must do that or stay in small numbers the party of this country,s biggest ever political fraud case.
Do you Lexi not see how very much more we are on the nose than 2010? why then doubt our fate?
Is blind support ever right?

Sadly what Gillard has done for woman status is about the equivalent as what Hitler did for civil rights. A lie is bad enough but can be forgiven but a lie with malicious intent can never be pardoned.

' I don't want to read ONE complaint about the holy man from contributors such as Rehctub and Runner. They wouldn't dare! '

Oh Susie I have already made complaints about Abbott. Compared with the incompetent sisterhood however it would be very hard to land a punch. Whether it be the policies that led to thousands drowning, allowing terrorist in the country, lying about the carbon tax, stabbing leaders in the back, trying to stop free speach, running up huge debt with nothing to show, I doubt whether Abbott either with trying to destroy the nation could come anywhere near the current Government who have been shown to be deceitful and incompetent.

Dear SM,

Same old song, same old mantra.
3 word slogans, and same old rhetoric.
Partisan belligerence and a complete
packaged designed for the conceptually and
ethically impaired.

Dear Belly,

The Party will survive and it will improve.
All they have to do is go back to their
grass roots and remember why they went into
politics in the first place.

'All they have to do is go back to their
grass roots '

r u talking about the trade union movement Lexi? I'm sure the people of nsw would luv that.

chrisgaff1000 - what Gillard has done for woman status is about the equivalent as what Hitler did for civil rights

You should consider patenting that line & make a fortune flogging bumper stickers !!

Runner "Oh Susie I have already made complaints about Abbott. Compared with the incompetent sisterhood however it would be very hard to land a punch. "

I'm sorry Runner, but I can't remember a complaint from you about Abbott?

I've never been a fan of Gillard, but its no secret that I would prefer anyone at the helm than Abbott.

It has nothing to do with any 'sisterhood' , or the current PM's gender, because there are far more male politicians in parliament than females.

I just don't like the man...

Suseonline - I just don't like the man...

Yayyyy, we actually agree on something !!

As a Green I never supported a deal with the ALP to allow them to form a minority government. I was in favour of handing Abbott power in 2010 to form a minority conservative government.
It was my belief 3 years in opposition would give Labor time to rebuild and reform, and more importantly reposition themselves politically. I was confident an incompetent minority Abbott government would, given world and domestic events, soon crash and burn, they may well get that opportunity to do so shortly.
Come September Federal Labor may find themselves in a similar position the party in NSW found itself after the disastrous 2011 state election. Given the catastrophic result one would have thought NSW Labor would have been galvanized into action of both soul searching and subsequent reform. Two years after the event NSW Labor has basically been galvanized into doing nothing, rather than being proactive NSW Labor is no more than reactive. It’s a fact The Greens offer more opposition to the O'Farrell government than does the official ALP opposition, a sad indictment of Labor. The powerful right within NSW Labor sees it as "business as usual" when it comes to wheeling and dealing, and maintaining their strangle hold on party power. Unfortunate Federal Labor may follow suit come September and this will result in the party wandering in the wilderness for years to come, assuming they survive at all.

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/breaking-news-national/obeid-and-macdonald-expelled-by-labor-20130606-2nr8m.html
This link heartens me.
But is;late in coming.
Before further discussion about it lets think back.
Before NSW ALP got its *historic pasting* even ALP voters not voting for them.
I got the its not that bad Belly thing HERE!
It was and is.
The fleas mentioned above first hide behind this truth, their factions, for most of the time they held ofice, made them invulnerable!
ALP has, from its foundation, a rule if members *for any reason* cross the floor vote with the heart, that will be dis-endorsed, not have their seat.
Obeid won over a group of blind mice/thieves and worse, and headed a faction.
Those who became aware of his grubby nature dare not do other than what the maggot told them to, or get kicked out of Parliament.
Lexi yes Labor will rise again, at the hands of folk like me, not those who want to enforce the three very unwise monkeys on my party, but those who demand better.

Paul1405

I would certainly ascribe the Greens somewhat more credibility if the party wasn't merely an ALP appendage. Far too many policies are just cut & pasted ALP ideas, particularly its promotion of homosexual rights. What FFS is the connection between the ecosystem & queers ?? Similarly the support for illegal boat-invaders that fails to take account of the very real danger they pose to our way of life and even national security has no connection whatever to preservation of flora & fauna. Its fairly clear that the Greens Party is now well on the way to political oblivion and the primary reasons are its unthinking allegiance to the ALP & its highjacking by educated idiot do-gooders who have diverted the party into areas in which it never should have entered.

Dear Belly,

The following link may be of some interest:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/judgement-of-history-will-be-kinder-to-pm-than-tv-news-cycle-20130321-2girw.html

'I just don't like the man... '

that is obvious Susie and I must congratulate you on being honest. Others deny their Abbottphobia where your dislike (or even hatred) comes through in alnost every post by some others not as candid.

praxidice, If you are in NSW, I suggest a vote for that perpetual loser Pauline Hanson in the senate, and hopefully in your seat there will be at least one right wing ratbag you can put number one against in the lower house. In that way you will be able to rest easy in the knowledge you have cast a democratic blow against, queers, illegal boat-invaders and idiot do-gooders

Belly; "This link heartens me." You were hearten to see the ALP reacting with the obvious. I was aware of those 2 being expelled from the party when I made my post, did not see the action as relevant and therefore did not bother to make mention.
When do you expect reform to begin in NSW? Its been 2 years and no action. In fact I can point to the Heffron by-election in 2012 which was a Sussex St brokered deal between the Keneally's and old mayor Hoenig from Botany, all others excluded.

Dear Belly,

I wonder what would happen if members of the ALP
started to talk about the Party's legislative
achievements instead of running the Party down.
After all there's enough people of all stripes
running the Party down.

Perhaps a different message just might get across.
Why not put a sock in it during this election year?

Lexi

Whilst I have no love lost for Dillard & co, I'm extremely concerned that the ALP is destined for the most horrific wipeout since federation. Our so-called democratic system depends on at least a semblance of an opposition & one doesn't need to be one of the ALP faithful to feel a sense of terror at the possibility of a worse debacle than what we have in Queensland. Even though we are in uncharted waters this time with a viable third option (as far as I'm aware, the one and only time there has been a third contender with candidates in every house & senate seat), there is always the possibility that the sheeple will do something unpredictable & repeat the 2012 Queensland example. I've just got off the phone to Wayne Swans local office attempting to ascertain his attitude to the looming wipeout & couldn't believe the attitude ... staff still believe not only will the red-headed witch will get up again, but also the dying duck !! They cling to the belief that their policies will win the day, regardless of almost universal feedback they are done like a dinner. If they can't see the writing on the ball at this point, will they ever ?? Note that I don't want the either the ALP or the LNP to get up, but I'm inclined to have a very very slight preference for a halfway significant ALP opposition presence over an LNP one, mainly because I view RAbbotts orchestration of the attack on One Nation as one of the most despicable acts any politician could contemplate. What hope can there possibly be for a party that persists in keeping its collective heads firmly wedged in the sand despite certain wipeout staring it in the face ??

Lexi let us not be silly about this.
And hopefully let us not see our friend ship crack on the rock of reality.
I see your comment above as a personal insult to me.
But too, evidence why you still think some miracle can save us.
Are you aware less people are members of the ALP, any party for that matter than in *ALMOST ANY SEAT*
And Lexi is it me? or those thinking as I do? who bought the party to this?
Close your eyes and pray, to your God, to silence me and every one *who knows our fate!*
It will change nothing.
Fixed Liberals/Nationals/Greens/Labor voters , will play no roll! not a bit! in our coming defeat.
Defeat it will be.
I am proud, very much so, to not hide like a coward from reality, but to demand what *every one will post election*
The cowards in my party stay silent, but will use my words and thoughts freely after your hopeless dreams are shattered.
That at least, the inquiry in to our near death, will bring about the most productive result for Labor in 80 years.
prax greens are not ALP clones in fact they by doing little, sponsor the Abbott years ahead, and history will find it hard not to laugh at them.

Dear SM,

Again, the same mantra, the same rhetoric.
It's always others who tell porkies.
No mention of any slush funds, Ashbygate,
Slippergate, Thomson - not to mention
Utegate, Tampa, Goodwin Gretch, and pending
litigation. Its always
others who quote from suspect sources. While
you on the other hand are above reproach.
"We will stop the boats." "We will scrap the tax."
"Julia Gillard lied". We've heard it all from you,
over and over again. You twist, and turn,
and manipulate. You're the one who's always
spruiking "the truth."

You keep on repeating the
same old Party rhetoric and expect people to be
impressed. And because I'm not impressed - you assign
various labels to me. But then, that's all you've got.
Regressive ideas, reducing complex issues to
inane slogans and negative rhetoric.
No surprises there.

Historically Julia Gillard's Prime Ministership will
be seen as an unusually active and reforming period
in Australian Public Policy, her legislative
achievements will be seen favourably.

If contemporary Australians are to live at ease with
ourselves we need more education, less fear mongering,
and at least greater honesty...

However as has been said,
"Prejudices, it is well known, are most difficult to
eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened
or fertilised by eudcation; they grow ther, firm as weeds
among stones."
(Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre).

It's no wonder the Libs don 't support the government's
education reforms.

Belly

For what its worth, I'm probably more concerned about the impending demise of the ALP than you are. Sure I despise the red-headed witch nearly as much as I despise RAbbott, but even one as cynical about politics as I am realize our ostensibly 'democratic' system requires at least a halfway viable opposition. Whether or not the ALP & the LNP fulfil such a role is a question for another day. Tell me if you can, why FFS can't people like the red-headed witch & the dying duck see whats staring them in the face ??

Dear Belly,

My apologies if I've caused you offence.
I was merely stating a sentiment that has
been expressed recently by both Kevin Rudd
and Wayne Swan and it's one I thought was
wise. (Even birds don't poop in their own
nests).

See you on another thread. I made the mistake
of sending a post that belongs to Shadow Minister's
thread, here to yours. Again, my apologies.
I've just had a tooth extracted and feel rather
whoozy.

Take care.

Lexi - Historically Julia Gillard's Prime Ministership will be seen as an unusually active and reforming period in Australian Public Policy

I'll agree to disagree on that stuff :) Surely her abysmally poor approval rating constitutes a strong argument that she has missed the boat ?? Is this the crux of the situation into which the ALP has descended ?? I mean if they are totally convinced that their policies are the most wonderful anyone could hope to imagine despite pretty convincing evidence that the sheeple haven't bought it, where can they go at this stage ?? I've always thought that until / unless one has taken ownership of a situation, one can't hope to find a remedy.

'Historically Julia Gillard's Prime Ministership will
be seen as an unusually active and reforming period
in Australian Public Policy, her legislative
achievements will be seen favourably. '

Hysterical Lexi. I love it. NO doubt the feminist and leftist have already written the glowing reports for the history books. Then again their are still those defending Gough who also managed to send us broke.

Lexi,

Wrong thread. I only claim that people are lying when they do, as you did.

All I see from you and labor is the same mindless drivel. It is no wonder that Labor targets voters better with their hands than their minds. I deal with professionals and businessmen all the time, and I know of almost none that would vote labor.

Dear SM,

Of course why would they support Labor -
when the Libs believe in - "No taxation
for the Rich!" And "Welfare is bad for Business!"
You either sink or swim - right. And if you sink,
well that's too bad.
I get it.

Dear runner,

Gough managed to send us broke?
Hmmmmm.
Do you use Medicare today?
There's also a heck of a lot of people
who were able to graduate from university
thanks to that man. You should perhaps Google
what the man actually did for this country.
Unlike Mr Howard who even today is sucking
us dry with the perks he's getting as a
former PM and that doesn't include his very
substantial pension. I believe he's the highest
paid former PM. Using taxpayers money to the max.
Who knows, if Mr Abbott gets in as PM at the next
election he may even appoint John Howard as the
next Governor General. Mr Howard just may get
the knighthood he so rightly deserves.

Lexi - Mr Howard just may get the knighthood he so rightly deserves

Surely you jest !!

Dear Prax.,

Take an intelligent guess.
;-)

Lets put some meat on why I use the words *Sussex Street* as an insult.
On its long march to the near center my ALP had its National Engine in that Street in NSW.
The long march had to over come a national tendency to let out side powers [the 36 faceless men] take us away from the voters.
Recent events show us the faceless men, if nothing else, now have faces but not brains.
Sussex Street was home of the Labor right, kept us on an even keel.
Not so in the last few years, 2007 till now, even before, it, not the local members, picked *star* candidates, and forced them, even not living in the electorate, on us.
Many/most having no clue about politics.
As Sussex Street power grew, its heads grew further away from the party faithful,and began think only they mattered.
I am far from the only would be recruit!
At conference the very man, appointed to a senate seat, after being a general behind the traitorous knifing of Rudd, left [for the sake of peace!]
Tried to get me to over throw a left wing branch.
He now has a new job! former ALP stalwart/wrecker works as Packers casino front man.
At the time of Rudd,s knifing Sussex street, by its actions and inactions, had turned NSW ALP from the engine of my party to its anchor.
Given air to far more grubb,s than Obeid and Macdonald.
This is what confronts my party.
Our house has fallen on hard times.
No longer the shrine we put our hopes and dreams at.
We have two choices.
Renovate,replace the broken windows and shabby doors, make it again some thing to be proud of.
Or get out the cheap paint, we know the brand, *SOLIDARITY* covers all sins,but is as easy to see straight through for the public.
Give those who do not want to vote Liberal an alternative place to plant their wishes for a better country.
AND? know even now, if my party thought enough of its voters, returned Rudd, it would turn hopelessness to hope.

And why am I constantly at the throat of Greens?
Labor took that long march,away from its early very Left flirtation, because it was and always will be unelectable if its roots stayed there.
Greens took voters from us, but we, if we stand tall against them, *along side the overwhelming majority* of Australians, we will win.
Greens, no less,but more, than small right wing groups gain *only* by black mailing Representatives of bigger party,s.
Should the two QLD gentlemen cry their way in to senate control they, not greens, will do the same.
Majority's governments, *more wanting them to govern*
Should not have to beg to radical fools to govern.
Greens, just watch and see, *wasted every vote they got* will cry at the methods to be used to stop the boats.
Surely only fools do not understand they had the power to get it done and win more migrants too.
It is my view we impose minority's on our selves by thinking they can introduce changes they clearly can not, without over ruling the majority.

Belly - if my party thought enough of its voters, returned Rudd, it would turn hopelessness to hope.

I suggested as much to the dying ducks office yesterday however they are obviously in denial, the clowns still can't believe he and the red-headed witch won't get up again

"And why am I constantly at the throat of Greens?" Because I am an Uncle Tom, who is no more than an arch conservative in Labor clothing.
In my travels I often come across stodgy old rusted on conservative Labor voters/ members, who are as far removed from social justice as are the dead old ladies who once made up the Liberal blue rinse set.
That's not to say there is not some real progressive thinking people in the ALP, Penny Wong is a good example of such a politician in the Labor ranks. Unfortunately there are too few Penny's and too many of the Conroy verity.
Here one for you Belly, the Liberal Party in NSW may help The Greens Cate Faehrmann win the 5th Senate spot, interesting?

Lexi,

It's sad that you have to create a bogey man version of the liberal party to justify voting for the corrupt and incompetent Labor party.

Shadow Minister - It's sad that you have to create a bogey man version of the liberal party

Lexi didn't create anything, bottom-feeding scum like RAbbott / Newman / Seeney did it long ago

Dear Shadow Minister,

Here are the facts Sir, which is something that you
tend to ignore:

There are 960,000 more jobs in Australia than in 2007.

Since 2007 our economy has grown 13 percent, whereas
the US only 2.25 percent and the European has fallen
by 2 percent.

Australia has one of the lowest levels of debt in the
world. The equivalent of a $12,000 mortgage for someone
earning $100,000 per year. That's why we hav a AAA Credit
Rating from the 3 Key Ratings Agencies.

Interest rates have fallen from 6.75 percent to 2.75 percent
since 2007. The lowest rates on record. A family with a
$300,000 mortgage is saving more than $5,000 a year.

The Lieral Party will always have us believe it's a choice
between looking after the economy and looking after the
people who make the economy work. That's not what creates
lasting prosperity and it's not who we are. The Libs
want Australia to go down the path of privatisation and
inequality where government exists to serve Big Business and
ordinary people are left to fend for themselves.

We don't need punishing roads to cuts and austerity.
Thanks - but No Thanks.

Mr Abbott keeps telling us he'll stop the boats.
Oh yeah. He says he'll send them back to Indonesia.
He's a liar. Indonesia has made it quite clear they won't
stand for it - won't have a bar of it. He know he won't
be able to do it. It's just another of his slogans.
Anyone with half a brain wouldn't want to antagonise a
Muslim country with eight times our population that's
sitting on our door-step. What a phoney!

And you've got the cheek to criticise this government.
Fix up your own incompetance first.

Lexi,

Some other facts you have ignored:
Since 2007 the number of unemployed persons has increased from about 450 000 to about 700 000, as unemployment has increased from 4.2% to 5.6%.
Debt has gone from less than zero to about $170bn,
Growth has gone from 4% p.a. to just over 2%
Interest rates have dropped from 6.7% with the RBA trying to slow the economy, to 2.75% emergency rates with the RBA trying to resuscitate the economy.
Most sectors other than mining are in recession.

etc.

My God we are damned and doomed. I'm glad I'm a Martian.

Been dumped twice and lost my post?
The answer to Paul,s insult is this,for every single greens voter 12%, 88% do not want them.
For every vote at least,very conservatively, 2 despise that party.
That is the reason Labor has factions, like every other party.
Our need is to keep the very radical under control.
My faction, Labor right,became too harsh, turning a good thing to its present out of control ALP PTY LTD power brokers ownership thing.
A handful think only of small victory,s for small men unaware every victory cost my party votes.
In this case the election and who knows how many more.
If the ALP is to regain trust it must reform.
Labor and the Liberals must try to include the majority not minority in their tent.
Greens wasted its chance to take small wins, surely even their voters know they are on the nose?

Dear SM,

Read the following link which just may make
you realise how ridiculous you sound in all
your posts and threads:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/a-fair-go-for-prime-minister-julia-gillard/

Lexi

Whatever criticism one levels at SM, it must be admitted that he (or she ??) is certainly one of the LNP faithful :)

Maybe just as well they have one supporter, RAbbott will need every one he can get, likewise the red-headed witch

Dear Prax,

There's enough people to dislike in the world
as it is without Shadow Minister continually
giving us another.

Belly

Where did you get the idea that 12% of sheeple support the Greens ??

Lexi

I don't think he's a happy chappy.

I learned a lot of my aggro from a mafioso mate with whom I've imbibed a few drops of vino rosso. He always told me its essential to have at least one good argument a day so ones blood circulates properly. This week has been exceptionally good, I've torn strips off General Disaster, Bruce Flegg, Energy Minister McArdle, Transport Minister Emerson, the mayor, local alderman & a few others. (and yes they fully deserved it) Tough job but i guess someone has to do it :) :) :) Now I think I'll crack another bottle of red.

Dear Prax,

I reckon you've earned that bottle of Red.

Here's to your health -
Cheers.

Belly you posed a question, "And why am I constantly at the throat of Greens?" and I simply answered it to the best of my knowledge; "Because I am an Uncle Tom, who is no more than an arch conservative in Labor clothing."
Where is the insult? Considering you spend almost as much time on the forum attacking The Greens as you do attacking the Labor Party. I at least acknowledge there are some good people in the ALP. I often make reference to Penny Wong being a shining light within Labor. You never see me attacking Greens, no need considering the wonderful job all our MP's do, simply outstanding, I'll leave the misguided attacks to others.
Your call: "for Greens took voters from us, but we, if we stand tall against them, *along side the overwhelming majority* of Australians, we will win." You continually call for the conservative right of which there is no doubt you are a part, should unite to defeat the progressive Greens. As for The Greens took voters from us, it's as if you consider Labor owns voters, shows the typical contempt some within Labor have for their fellow Australians, taking them for granted. An easy question for you, which you are unlikely to answer. In the NSW Senate vote who do you think Labor should preference first Hanson's One Nation or The Greens? from your past calls to put The Greens last, I can only assume Hanson should get the nod.
p/s Lee Rhiannon sends her love.

It will never be hard to target the greens.
They assist with policy,s out of touch with common sense and it can not be argued, they are disliked on both sides of politics.
12 Prax, gee I wanted to type pratt!, is in the polls as the peak greens got in a federal election, even you are unable to fight that.
Why ALP PTY LTD? as poling showed Rudd could win, and most voters wanted him not Gillard, select almost any day post knifing.
The owners of the ALP said no way!
We are approaching a dark place,for Labor and Australia.
Do not blame me for it.
I see it smell it and fear it.
An Abbott lead Australia is not pleasant to consider.
But in truth the ALP is bringing it to us, and its self.
The country,s eyes are closed to policy and to Labor.

Paul1405 - it's as if you consider Labor owns voters, shows the typical contempt some within Labor have for their fellow Australians, taking them for granted.

Your point is valid, however contempt is not by any means confined to the ALP alone. a far more accurate statement would include BOTH ALP & LNP. The present situation in Queensland is a perfect example, General Disaster quite obviously takes voters for granted.

Paul is in all probability a good bloke.
His post history, and his own words, tells us he is about my age, once ALP left, I think.
And very much left now.
It is not my job, in a thread I under take putting the sword to some in my own party, to praise Paul,s.
Get a grin out of prax booting all sides, but understanding, based on his posts, nothing.
Australia has no intention of voting green.
12 percent did, but watch this election.
Labor is the hope, at some point after this election, of non-Liberal voters.
Should it not reform? NEW LABOR.
These truths are not hidden, every poll tells the future.
This and next month brings NSW FILTH to center stage.
Should I put one big toe in each ear and whistle SOLIDARITY FOREVER? or demand an end to the party of the people being used as a pirate ship by thieves and fools?

Belly, Side step the question read you like a book, what's it to be The Greens or Hanson. The truth is you oppose The Greens progressive policies, I can live with that. Prax spot on, with talk of heartland and true believers etc, just clap trap. I'm north of the boarder today. True the natives not happy campers at the moment.. Don't take much interest in Qld politics seem's this CN bloke is a political fool.
More concerned with getting Cate elected to the Senate in NSW over Belly's choice of Hanson the rednecked red head.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/in-rudd-we-trust-say-voters-as-annihilation-looms-for-labor-20130608-2nwzq.html
The link offers unwanted but true still, evidence the ALP, for reasons I fail still, to understand, refuses to listen to the people.
Paul 1405? while you try to pin the tail of the donkey, Hanson on me,you highlight this.
You too, are uninterested in the voice of voters.
Can you not see hear and smell in part Labors perceived alliance with your party is reason for its coming rejection?
Elections have an unfortunate out come, people vote.
And like it or not they vote for what they want, not what you or I want.
Your party should prosper, gain by Labors coming thrashing.
That is its usual growth pattern.
You however have continued to call the policy,s of your party progressive?.
Your J curve too is upside down,its all down hill from here.

Belly, why would Rudd do anyone a favour in the ALP? Put his head on the chopping block to save the likes of Garrett, the man would be a fool. If I was Kevin I would sit back on Sep 14th, with a cold beer, and watch Gillard and her mob crash and burn. Then post election at the first party circus meeting in the phone box, if I felt so inclined I might put my hand up to become opp leader,
The demise of the ALP has nothing to do with The Greens and all to do with internal party problems plus poor leadership. Take last weeks folly the $20 m cash grab, what was Gillard thinking, blind Freddy could see that would go down like a lead balloon with the voters. Comrade Doug was right, should have sacked the spin docs a long time ago, to late now, the damage is done.
You as I predicted failed to answer the question who goes last in NSW Cate or Hanson your call. From your previous posts of put The Greens last, I assume you support Hanson .

@Paul 1405

Hopefully come the next election, the Greens will get their backsides well and truly whopped, Christian Milne will get deposed, and Paul will slink back to the dark hole he crawled out of --at least till he's needed as an extra in the next Hobbit movie

Its a crying shame the Greens don't concentrate on issues their party name suggests, rather than haring off on tangents that bear no relationship whatever to anything even remotely 'green'. I for one would seriously consider supporting a party that opposes wanton 'development' that more often than not is little more than environmental vandalism for the purpose of making some grubby mate of politicians a bit richer, but there is no way known I'll support a mob that professes to be one thing but in reality is something completely different. I would appreciate comment from any 'green' who can advise me what connection exists between queers & 'green' and / or between refugees (whether legal or otherwise) and 'green'. For the benefit of the educated idiot do-gooder fraternity, I don't deny anyone the right to jump on their own particular soapbox and scream whatever they wish. To quote whoever it was 'as far as I'm concerned, what you are on about is a load of crap, nevertheless I will defend to the death your right to say it'.

Paul1405

Advise me if you can why the Greens can't concentrate their efforts on 'green' matters. Its not as if the ecosystem isn't in need of whatever protection, given the concerted onslaught of all manner of vandal-minded 'developers' intent on chopping down every tree on the planet so they can create ever more concrete jungles, allowing big-business to pollute every waterway, and allowing supposed 'conservatives' to encourage giving trailbikes / horses unfettered access to national parks. Why FFS do Greens folk insist on getting so carried away with queers & illegals in total ignorance of what I at least assumed was the whole reason for creation of the party ??

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-09/cassidy---gillard/4742634
Yes another link.
A thought provoking look behind the curtain that is my ALP
And, in my view quite close to the truth.
I watch powerful men, within my party and see it in their eyes, Bill Shorten, a brilliant young bloke, who let himself and my party down, by supporting Gillard, his eyes show pain and that some thing else.
Are the heedless men, once known as the faceless brave enough to be men?
To put the party first, to avoid the extreme pain we are confronted with.
First link said, oh so very clearly it shouted its message!*anyone but Gillard*
Yet some here may not truly understand what a different party we could be, without her and her main supporters on our front bench.
Far better if they are not in our back yard or property.
Gillard came from the left, the extreme left, she in my view, would do anything to remain in power, has she the jam tart to see she must go?
Another leader could pull from view forever,policy,s that harm us, and put new ones up.
IF my party has the guts watch the impact of change on Liberals.
Turnbull could be both PM and treasurer not Abbott.
Australian politics must come out from under its privately owned rock.

SPQR if both our sides had the brains/guts we would agree to put each other in front of greens.
Electing donkeys is no way to see improvement.

Belly getting into bed with SPQR and his bunch of Nazi's would not do Labor any good.. What are you trying to do, turn the ALP into the town bike in an attempt to defeat The Greens.
SPQR if you bothered to get the news delivered to that rock you live under you would know that The Greens are risking bugger all at this election. I just love it when an ignorant fool turns up and proceeds to open its trap,.
Prax and the Nationals should only concern themselves with matters concerning sheep, the ALP with matters that will make a quid for Eddie O and the Labor band of criminals. Abbott should confine his comments to religious matters and points of cannon law, only opening his gob when Archie Pell tells him it's safe to do so.
The Greens are a broad based democratic grass roots all inclusive party, that has millions of supporters.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/17539415/collapse-in-labor-vote-in-six-vic-seats/
This link is about ALP internal polling.
Yet some will say it is not reliable, bank on it.
It could have been any one of ten, proving to me, if no one else, my words here are being said by many, in the ALP.
Paul.getting in bed with SPQR?
You understand we are opposite, yet agree on some things, as I do with Banjo and Shadow Minister, in some things .
See the party you try to sell, has policy,s that are unwelcome in the real world.
And some of its voters live in an unreal world.
You make claim about your party,s policy,s,that are untrue.
Desperately trying to theive the Democrat's mantel, *keep the B,s honest*
It rest assured, looks to thinking voters like rubbish, smells like rubbish and is rubbish.
Last three links, along with the caucus arm wrestling on the edge of a very big cliff J curve rightly upside down, entrenches my view reform is a must.

@Paul 1405

<<The Greens are a broad based democratic grass roots all inclusive party, that has millions of supporters>>

LOL Don't kid yourself!

The Greens only have the seats they do because the two major parties have favourably preferenced them. The end result of more power to the Greens will be the weakening of Australian sovereignty and the undercutting of Australian Industry and jobs.

I agree with Belly, if the two major parties had backbone they’d come to agreement to preference the Greens dead last--stop giving the Greens what amounts to a free ride.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-leadership-on-the-line-as-caucus-eyes-turn-to-bill-shorten/story-fn59niix-1226661034356
Again I bring a link with me, my journey in to most not Murdock press is still under way.
Shorten it is said will stand by Dillard.
If he does maybe his long awaited term as PM will never come.
It takes men to say we got it wrong.
And far less than men to try to hide the fact they did.
Ignore the ALP is gone even under Rudd crew, they never traveled on my side of the fence.
Rudd, armed with the right his return would give him, could drag some policy,s out and change them or remove them.
Or Labor, lead by outsiders, can flirt with the possibility it is to be sacrificed to Protect , [impossible] union power brokers from ever being forced to confront the fact they hurt even them selves by dumping Rudd.

It looks like there is an electoral J curve, just that it is going the wrong way.

Paul1405

Wherever did you get the idea I support the Nationals ?? not that there are any left. I notice you've carefully avoided answering the question about why the Greens Party doesn't focus on 'green' stuff. As I've said elsewhere, I would possibly support the party if only it was truthful about its objectives & I know a significant number of environmentally aware folk who think the same way. Surely even a member of the Greens faithful must be concerned about alienating tree-huggers who oppose queer anything & islamic invasion ??

Prex, I did not say you support The Nats, I was making the point if The Greens should only concern themselves with 'green only' issues then why not demand The Nats only concern themselves with 'farm' only issues and the ALP with stuff that concerns their party, like criminal issues.
The Greens are a broad based party,not a single issue party. We have legitimate views and policies to appeal to all Australians, just like other mainstream parties. Well it's a bit hard to find policies from the big two and one of them is about to get a lot smaller.
Belly good to see you would rather see Nazi Hanson in the Senate over our dear sweet Cate.

Paul,

<<Belly good to see you would rather see Nazi Hanson in the Senate over our dear sweet Cate>> !

LOL

Did you clear that one with the Greens PC committee before release.
I'm not altogether sure that to refer to a female candidate as "our dear sweet Kate" is PC

Christine will not be happy

SPQR, that's Dear Sweet Cate with a C so please drop the K. Nothing would please me more than to see Cate join Dear Sweet Lee in the Senate for NSW. A far better choice than that Belly favourite Rednecked Redhead Hanson. I know if that misogamist man The Mad Monk had his way, women would not have the vote little own be members of parliament.
SPQR, watch out for another rising female star my Dear Sweet Mehreen who will replace Cate in the NSW Parliament soon. Women members are one of the greatest asset any parliament can have, particularly if they are Green. I' m sure there are some great Labor and Liberal women MP's, it's just that their names escape me at the moment, other than Penny Wong that is,

Shadow Minister we agree again!
Bit sorry it took you 77 posts to understand that is the very point of the thread, as I said in post one.
Paul, weak effort linking me to any candidate based only on your wondering mind.
Table cloth, or Queen sized sheet, my senate ticket will be used so I not my party, say who follows them on the ballot.
Greens fate is not in my hands, but fail they will.
Simple truth, at the time of the NSW white wash election, NSW FILTH in full view, your party failed to make ground.
If the ALP overnight, was banned from this election, your party would still not gain ground.
Would you consider standing for Clive Palmer,s clod hoppers party?
Or Katter,s squeaky voice mob.
Or form a new one, the naked Morris Dancers of Australia.
I truly with passion think both majors should combine to get minority's out of both houses.
Better still why not one vote one value?
Why impose twits on the public in upper houses?
I love the greens.
I do! they constantly make me laugh, at them not with them.

Paul 1405 - The Greens are a broad based party,not a single issue party. We have legitimate views and policies to appeal to all Australians

The meagre membership of the Greens suggests to me that its policies don't in fact appeal to many. I'm probably more ecosystem aware than most & same applies to the majority of folk in my community, however to the best of my knowledge there are no greens supporters, only two lesbian couples in a group of about 500 & universal disapproval of boat people / islamic invasion. Furthermore I understand these figures are fairly typical of other comparable eco-communities. Seems to me the Greens have not so much lost the plot but rather have yet to realize there was a plot in the first place.

As we stall I think it is time I put a spot light yet again on who knifed Rudd/supports Gillard.
Shorten, and who knows why? the useless as the proverbial on a Bull Conroy, are the Prime Union power brokers in Victoria.
Bill Ludwig AWU is still in Queensland.
Sussex street plus the AWU is in NSW.
They installed then removed Rudd.
They are the hand holders of Mrs Failure Gillard, most probably only because she stands against Rudd.
So? no change and Labor continues down the long upside down J curve.
After shattering on the rocks of power brokers and HMAS Titanic/Gillard?
Plan is to put Shorten in charge?
Action? if Gillard is made stand in the corner contemplating her next job?
It takes guts to say sorry, but it can be the first step in forgiveness.

Belly unlike you I have no problem answering you questions.
Would you consider standing for Clive Palmer,s clod hoppers party? NO
Or Katter,s squeaky voice mob? NO
Or form a new one, the naked Morris Dancers of Australia? NO
See I answer your questions easily, Unlike you who fails repeatedly to answer any question put to you on this forum. My question was simple, Who would you place last on the NSW Senate ballot The Greens or One Nation. By your silence you lead me to believe you would endorse Hanson and the radical right wing views of One Nation over the progressive policies of The Greens.
"I (Belly) love the greens. I do! they constantly make me laugh." Well Belly that is good, makes a change from all the whining and moaning you do about that criminal Labor Party of yours. If you are actually a genuine Labor supporter, and from the conservative rubbish you post, supporting Hanson for one, I find that hard to believe, there would be no joy for you in the ALP unless you get your jollies seeing a bunch of criminals like Gillard and Thompson, not to mention Obeid and Macdonald here in NSW, the list goes on and on, running the country. Labor is not a political party its more or less some kind of political mafia. At the last NSW election I was so surprised with the fantastic result the ALP achieved, I could not believe it when they won 20 seats, I checked some fools actually voted for the Labor Mafia.

Prax, you know nothing of The Greens, we have a strong and growing grass roots membership, unlike the ALP which is shedding members by the score. The Greens will contest ever electorate in the country, as we have done at all recent elections, how do we achieve that with, as you put it, "meager membership". How amusing it is when an arch conservative tells you "I wont consider voting Green until you change your policies on queers and illegals and ah kick crap out of all those I don't like." The truth is we don't want such peoples vote, they can keep voting for the KKK, Hanson or Big Clive, plenty to choose from, make your choice, its a free vote.

Yikes! Paul, you only posted half the survey.

Here’s the second part of it:
Would the Greens sign every covenant, or agreement the UN puts in front of them, however loopy –YES!
Do the Greens support unlimited,open door illegal immigration –YES!
Do the Greens AGW policies amount to a sell-out of Australian industry and workers –YES!
Do the Greens have any real idea about foreign policy –auh! ..what is foreign policy?

The greens are a fringe party, and Lee Rhiannon is the Pauline Hanson of the left.

Their poll support has dropped from 14% 3 years ago to about 9% and as Paul says, their root support is growing grass.

<<and Lee Rhiannon is the Pauline Hanson of the left>>

And Sarah Hanson-Young is even worse!

Paul I see the senate as dead heads heaven,a waste of the air they breath.
So in voting yes put the worst last that is greens.
But lets look at it, they have the prospects of wining a seat, very small party,s do not.
So lets dump the lie a vote for anyone, on such a big ticket say past 10? is likley to count.
The two lost lady's running your mob are doing an excellent job, of making it look silly.

Only Gillards supporters are looking worse.