Good afternoon to you INDIVIDUAL...

Much of what you say is true, particularly with those in the judiciary. Often it's a case of the politicians making the bullets, and leaving it o police to fire 'em. Unfortunately some of those herein don't recognise this fact ?

Another thing too INDIVIDUAL, you should use caution whenever defending the police ? Otherwise the politically correct, enlightened academics and other 'experts' who've never worn 'blue', will severely castigate you for your obvious lack of intuition and perspicacity ?

Sorry there INDIVIDUAL, I'm being a bit disingenuous with my earlier remarks, it's just that one does get a little tired with people continually bleating on about, '...I know this ex copper...' or '...I met this bloke at the pub who's in the police and he told me...' ?

My theory is quite simple. Unless or until you done, at the very least, ten or twelve years in the job, you have very little knowledge how the job REALLY works. The job does have 'sinners', as it does 'saints' ? And there also exists, some corruption, and some 'squeaky clean', almost sterile components to it too ? The real truth of the matter; the NSW police force in the main, is pretty straight, as evidenced by the many enquiries and reviews undertaken.

On that specific issue, I'm so very pleased to note the death of one 'chook' Fowler, former boss of the 'jacks' at Kings X. An individual who brought much shame on all the decent detectives who tried to do their very best ! Rot in hell 'chook' maggot of maggots !

For anyone to make these sweeping statements one way or the other, proves to me, he/she knows very little about the job in it's broadest sense.

And PRAXIDICE, your absurd almost inane remark that the job only attracts bullies...? Actually my friend I gave you a little more deference and credit for most of your views and opinions ? Perhaps, now I should consign most of them to the rubbish ?

o sung wo, as usual I admire your contribution, and the stand you take, thinking I know the reasoning behind it.
My tale, here and in other threads, about the ex Navy Sargent of Police is quite true.
While at my very lowest ebb, because of that at the time, seemingly not penetrable wall of Police using the Job, against me.
The still serving then lowly now well past Sargent, held out his hand.
He reminded me,it is the few who blacken the whole.
And that is true of many groups.
Till I die, I will remember a roadside conversation that ended with that now mate, sprinting to his car and going to confront a gunman, unheard of in our area, threatening a workmate.
Show me a better measure of a man afraid but without thinking, racing toward a life threatening event.

P,

" by banning lawyers from politics, we'd be on the path at least to resolving centuries of systematic corruption"

I assume you are talking of Juliar and her involvement in the AWU fraud?

o sung wu

You missed my point completely. Human nature being what it is, people with less than impeccable character are inevitably drawn to positions where they can further develop the unsavoury traits they already have. Police are not alone in that, politicians are a good example as well. Thats not to say that all cops & all politicians are necessarily crook, but the temptation will always be there. What I've always proposed is a truly open and independent review facility for both. No honest cop or honest politician would baulk at a properly constituted entity that guarantees to the public that the confidence they have every right to, is in fact not abused.

There is simply no way it could be argued that police investigating police can ever be anything but a shonk. The well publicized example of the so called Ethical Command chief in Queensland importing military weapons for sale to the mob speaks for itself. Don you seriously expect the public to read that story and still have confidence in the police service ?? Then we have the ongoing bashings in Fortitude Valley & Surfers Paradise .... sounds very much like a few bullies managed to get issued with blue uniforms don't you agree ??

If those weren't damning enough, what about the dozen or so ex-cops in my circle of associates who together served about a hundred years & all of whom got out because they couldn't handle the corruption around them. For what its worth, bullying was only one of the issues in contention. I don't suppose you've ever encountered that clown Leevers .. if you had you couldn't miss the gravel-rashed knuckles.

Far too many cops like to think they are little tin gods beholden to nobody but for the most part they are their own worst enemies. I fully realize politicians use and abuse the various police services, but how often do we hear complaints ?? If the union is too stupid to object to police being used as revenue-raisers then how will that nonsense ever stop ??

G'day there BELLY old mate...

I understand completely what you're saying. And it's very true, a few coppers who do the wrong thing, blacken the reputations of the thousands who try to do their best.

Right up until I retired, discipline was pretty strict. Like water, both accountability and censure flowed 'down' to the lowest rank. Often (very sadly) the first line managers totally abrogated their responsibility altogether and the poor old constables (most unfairly) copped the kick in the arse.

As you know, I was only a detective sergeant, thus I was part of that first line management dynamic myself. And to my everlasting shame BELLY, on several occasions over the final couple of years of my service, others on my squad copped the blame, that was factually and morally meant for my own omissions or failures. Why, because I should have spoken-out for my crew, instead of allowing the blame to settle upon those below. On the occasion of which I speak, two constables did 'the deed', true. But it was me personally, that should've taken the responsibility for their actions.

You can always delegate authority, but you can NEVER delegate responsibility. And that BELLY, was my sin ! I should've gone to bat for them both.

Am I repentant for my silence ? No, worse ! I'm absolutely ashamed. It's described as organisational cowardice. And for my sin, for several months thereafter, I had the 'dog' put on me by the entire squad, sure they do as they're told, but nothing more ! A neutral, rather cool atmosphere, I guess you'd call it, being their Sgt ?

In conclusion, police value dearly the 'squad dynamic'. A good squad always sticks together, works closely and often socialise together. And being a part of the squad is important. To illustrate - A 5 year constable, at a bush station I was relieving at, fell out with his Sgt, over what, I don't know ? He returned home after a 1500/2300 shift, and ate his Mod 10. ?

Shadow Minister - I assume you are talking of Juliar and her involvement in the AWU fraud ?

Thats only one of innumerable reasons. Lawyers spend their career twisting words into unrecognizable distortions, that alone is sufficient to ban them from the political circus. JooLIAR is unquestionably a good example but she's by no means the only 'full of it' politician, Slippery Pete tops my list of legal slimeballs and the RAbbott shares second spot with the red-headed witch. Unfortunately the political circus has become a home for legal leeches over the past 20 or 30 years and apart from possibly Nick Xenephon, I can't think of one deserving the 'honorable' title. Mind you union heavies and failed priests aren't significantly less despicable than the leeches. Several lifetimes back, politicians were mostly business people & whilst they might have tickled the till a bit, it wasn't generally the grand larceny we've come to expect from lawyers, union heavies and failed priests.