Yesterday afternoon I was listening to Michael Savage's 'Savage World', and as you'd expect his main topic for discussion was that of the Boston 'Marathon' Bombings.

For those of you who don't know of Dr Michael Savage Ph.D or his evening radio show, which is syndicated across the entire United States mainland including Alaska - Dr Savage is a very far 'right wing' political commentator who, by all accounts has the second highest listening audience (about 11 million daily) in the USA. Only Rush Limbough (sorry for the spelling, it's not correct?) eclipses him.

Regardless of his aggressive posture toward the US President on everything, in some matters I believe him to be quite a clever guy !

It was during one of his more truculent episodes yesterday, when I heard him trying to connect the Marathon Bombings, with the tough new gun laws, just recently enacted in the State of Massachusetts (Boston) ?

When all of a sudden, he exclaimed loudly in an incensed tone '...that no corrupt government in Washington was going to take away his guns, or similar ?

This individual has a huge listening audience. Yet by inference, he's almost 'tempting' the elected government of the United States to confiscate his guns. Moreover, he repeated this challenge several times during the course of his programme ? Almost daring the government to try and take that, which he owns !

What sort of message does that send to all those indelible and entrenched NRA gun owners ? Particularly those wizened old guys living in the high 'moonshine' country of Kentucky, where there're more guns than people ! Shades of Waco,Texas I think. Furthermore, it's no secret there are many folk in the developed world, who suffer from many different forms of mental illness, many undiagnosed, therefore untreated.

Here in Oz, we all know, it's not the licenced bloke with his licenced F/A. It's the illegal F/A in possession of the unlicensed bloke. Another development, post Port Arthur we now have a burgeoning cottage business with the ever expanding industry of the importation of illegal F/A's ?

G,Day o sung wo!
You put a question, in a subject, that will bring lots of posts.
I want to include the uttering,s of that Alan Jones bloke here.
No way around it he is offensive and his words are vile.
We know nothing of who used that bomb.
America has many insane fools, such as the gun lobby, but some need no reason other than hate.
We may find Islamists, or even north Koreans behind it.
But America is hard for us to understand, you would have been glad, I think, you did not face such a needlessly armed country in your work days.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ Here you will seeinteresting articles on false flag terrorism in the USA.It has a long history of it.

The authorities are trying to get their story straight as new info emerges like police radio chat reporting additional explosives found.

Michael Savage is a preposterous attention seeker. He is absolutely lunar. Who knows or can even guess what his secondary agendas might be.

His 1978 PhD is in herbal and alternative medicine. Trendy back then possibly but irrelevant to what he is spruiking now.

Just because he has an audience doesn't mean what he says is worth squat. That is evidenced by his speculative BS on a bombing without any result as yet from the investigation.

Dear o sung wu,

I think it's too early to tell what the connection,
(if any) there could be between the Boston Bombing
and the Second Amendment (Guns). I'm not familiar
with the person that you cite in your opening post
so I can't comment on him. All I can say is - lets
wait and see what the investigations reveal.
My heart goes out to the American people. Hopefully
some answers will be provided soon.

Yes, it is too early to speculate, but we all will do it anyway Lexi : ).

There is no doubt that anyone who would fill a pressure cooker with metal and ball- bearings and then have it blow up, has some serious mental health issues, or is just plain evil.

Whether that sort of behaviour is fueled by a love of guns, a love of a God, or a hatred of foreigners etc remains to be seen.

I wouldn't mind betting that the US authorities are praying they find a foreigner guilty of the crime, and not a 'homegrown "loony tune" ...

Dear o sung wu,

I've just read the following website and thought
that it may be of some interest to others:

http://newmatilda.com/2013/04/16/why-we-need-run-crowds

Some of the comments are interesting as well.

Dear o sung wu,

I'm not exactly sure where you are headed with this when you write; “It was during one of his more truculent episodes yesterday, when I heard him trying to connect the Marathon Bombings, with the tough new gun laws, just recently enacted in the State of Massachusetts (Boston)?

Are you saying the bombing may have been a reaction by somebody on the loony right to the impending gun laws (which now look increasingly unlikely with the senate voting down background checks)? Given the timing this is not beyond the bounds of probability. Crazies like the two you have mentioned plus Alex Jones have been inciting a violent response for years.

Or are you saying this may have been an action on behalf of the government to validate stronger gun laws, as if a massacre in a primary school wasn't enough.

In fact a 'false flag' question was the first to be put at the second Boston Marathon news conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=203b3moMQkM

You also wrote;

“Here in Oz, we all know, it's not the licenced bloke with his licenced F/A. It's the illegal F/A in possession of the unlicensed bloke. Another development, post Port Arthur we now have a burgeoning cottage business with the ever expanding industry of the importation of illegal F/A's ?”

Well that is not the full story either.

“A COVERT police operation in Geelong has uncovered a criminal network targeting farmers for their firearms.
Taskforce Griffin, set up in February, is probing a breakout in gun crimes involving 41 burglaries in which 124 firearms were stolen.”
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2013/04/13/362857_news.html

It is the legal gun owners who are not securing their weapons properly that are feeding criminal gangs with firearms. The question will be just how prepared the government is about enforcing responsible gun ownership.

Yes o sung, bombs the ultimate cowards weapon, but what can we do about it?

Then the gun question. I'm from an era when I was given my first air rifle at 12. At 14 I was supplementing the families fresh food with rabbits shot with a 22.

Back then we all had rifles, as had our predecessors. We would not have been able to hold the Japs on the Kokoda Track without a militia made up of young blokes who were experienced gun handlers at home, before the invasion.

We never heard of folks killing each other with guns back then, despite everyone having them, so the problem is not the gun itself. It is with the people who use them in such a way. As Boston proves, you don't need a gun to kill or to maim hundreds.

Could a product of modern high population cities be causing much of these problems. Remember the experiment with laboratory rats, where they increased the numbers in an enclosure. At a certain level of overcrowding, they started killing each other. It is a terrifying thought, that this could be us.

Could it be some other factor of modern living? I don't find it all that stressful, but it is almost 40 years since I lived deep in a large city. Perhaps it's easier out on the fringe.

What ever, I'm very glad that today I have no interest in anything within cities, or involving large crowds, that appear such a target.

csteele, "It is the legal gun owners who are not securing their weapons properly that are feeding criminal gangs with firearms"

Your allegation is a fabrication, completely baseless and devoid of fact.

Anyone with a smidgen of knowledge of firearms laws would know that if the firearms were not in approved safes the police would have charged owners for failing to secure their firearms. But you would also want to make innocent victims of crime responsible for the crimes committed against them. That is a return to (say) the woman being held responsible for her own rape. Popular in Islamic countries reportedly. Your authoritarianism would see similar changes here.

What is a worry though is that the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.

Apart from that it is mendacious of you to set hares running on lawful, licensed firearms owners when there is no evidence whatsoever to justify the claim. Might as well ban pressure cookers and backpacks since some were used for the bombs. Pressure cookers are commonly used in Afghanistan as containers for bombs. So doubtless cooks are likely suspects you would say.

Hasbeen <"We never heard of folks killing each other with guns back then, despite everyone having them, so the problem is not the gun itself. It is with the people who use them in such a way. As Boston proves, you don't need a gun to kill or to maim hundreds. ".

Apart from the many thousands killed in the 2 world wars you mean?

Let's see...which would I rather contend with (1) a bomb such as the one in Boston Marathon recently, or (2) a gunman carrying a machine gun shooting people at the Boston marathon?

I wonder which weapon would have killed the most people Hasbeen?

O Sung Wu,
Reading the article that csteele posted, the police were more concerned about the stolen handguns, which are favoured by crims. Farmers tend to have sporting type longarms so a crim is not likely to score a favoured weapon by targeting farmers residences.

It has been suggested there has been some breaching of security of the gun registry that has enabled crims to locate where handguns are stored.

On the matter of who did the Boston bombing. It is noted that Islamists have committed over 20,000 terrorist acts (mostly bombings) since 9/11, so they have the runs on the board. From crude home made devices to very sophisicated bombs.

I suggest we wait untill the investigation progresses before further spectulation.

For me it is a focus on individual stories that I find the most affecting.

One I found compelling is that of peace activist Carlos Arredondo, a Costa Rican immigrant who had lost one of his sons fighting in Iraq and another to suicide over the first's death.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/16/carlos-arredondo-hero-boston-marathon

A series of photographs showing him assisting in the crowd of those who ran to assist.
http://imgur.com/a/HXLyP

This next is an iconic image is of him holding a victims femoral artery as they raced to get him to an ambulance. WARNING – EXTREMELY GRAPHIC. http://i.imgur.com/1opOYTm.jpg

Carlos is videoed immediately afterward. He is holding a bloodied flag and is visibly in shock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWHHWB3Jr60&feature=player_embedded#!

Here is the Wikipedia page for Carlos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Arredondo

I know that there were undoubtedly Iraqi 'Carlos' ' who would have responded as he did during the horrific bombings that befell Baghdad on the same day, but technology has served to place his story before us with an immediacy that was so compelling.

In many other ways though this is very much an American story. The two pieces of potentially volatile legislation, gun legislation and immigration, along with the terrible cost of America's wars seem to be distilled in his tale. My thoughts are with him and the others who have been so badly traumatised.

Dear onthebeach,

You wrote; “Your allegation is a fabrication, completely baseless and devoid of fact.” then had the hide to claim “Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”

Utter nonsense. The database protocols within the force have been strengthened enormously. We had a local copper who was booted out for checking the details of an opposing candidate for a local government position. He had made every attempt to cover his tracks but to no avail.

I have given evidence that criminals are probably finding it more fruitful to obtain weapons from farm houses than to secure them on the so called importation black market. It is obviously too easy for them so measures should be explored to make it more difficult. I would have thought the current storage methods need to be examined and strengthened. Why don't you? Those who own guns need to take every measure to prevent them getting into the hands of criminals.

What is 'mendacious' is you pointing the finger at the police.

csteel,

Any policeman can check the licence details and get the home address. It is already there on screen, even for a routine traffic query where no offence has been committed. That is an incontrovertible fact. He can go further at will. Since you claim there are improvements in 'protocols' please be specific and list them because that would be news to the Police Commissioners as well.

Obviously you just make things up as you go, hoping that no-one will as the obvious questions.

As for police security, what about this?
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/firearms-charges-for-nsw-police-employee-20130331-2h10i.html

Your intent is to link gun control with the bombings to suit another agenda. Yet there is no evidence whatsoever of any link with the bombings. You are just indulging your prejudices and trying to set hares running. The investigation of the bombings is still in its infancy.

I did not see o sung wo claiming any one or group did it.
And doubt susionline America will fit some one up for this.
We just do not know, yet.
And as the attempt to kill via mail has seen a southern states man charged maybe in the end this will be the same.
Todays explosion in a fertilizer plant, may well be terrorism, or just an event in an industry known to be dangerous.
Let us wait and see.
O sung wo, an ex cop may hold differing views on gun control.
Some how I think Australians, subject to much harsher laws but good out comes, should not take Americas anti gun folk to be extremists.
If they had only our system they would be pleased.
For just a second, consider, would you be happy to see guns in purses and pocket here, as in America.
ak47,s in the bush?

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

In my day one could easily 'pull up' various avenues of enquiry eg DMT, F/A's, Liquor Licensing details, and several other areas of stored, confidential or protected data, available only for police use.

Because of apparent corruption, there now lies an electronic 'trail' if you like, whereby internal audited processes can trace any copper when they access any protected Site. Unauthorized access is viewed very seriously these days with external issues of privacy coming to the fore.

The days where you could assist a mate with a Rego. enquiry, after a bit of a ding, are long gone. I agree, people are entitled to their privacy.

Your summation of Dr Savage is pretty well on the mark too. I find much of what he says in this matter is tantamount to incitement, encouraging people to defy the law apropos F/A's ? That said, I still believe he's nobody's fool. Therefore he could pose a dangerous influence, to some of his 11 million listeners, particularly those who have issues with the present Govt. and their stance with tougher Firearm legislation. Look at Hitler, an individual with a very persuasive and obviously cogent way about him, enabling him to reach the masses.

Please, don't think for a moment, I'm comparing Dr Michael Savage with Hitler. Absolutely NOT ! There's much of what he says, I more or less agree with, if not materially, than philosophically at least.
But on this issue, I believe him to be wrong, very wrong indeed.

To openly encourage, or to urge, or even recommend on public radio, to '...resist your government from taking your firearms...' or similar words, is grossly irresponsible to the extreme !

It is interesting to note the prestitutes in America were very quick to paint a bullseye on the backs of American patriots and defenders of their constitution.

Defenders of their constitution would gain absolutely nothing from this cowardly act and they know it. The grubberMint on the other hand has everything to gain. And as Arjay has pointed out, they have a history of this sort of thing.

But lets not forget the many killings of innocents in far away lands that happen on a daily bases by this corrupt administration and equally as cowardly. The prestitutes in America would never mention the word blow back now would they?

Food for thought:
http://www.debka.com/article/22901/Saudi-terror-cell-possibly-al-Qaeda-behind-Boston-Marathon-bombings-Manhunt-for-escaped-suspect

One thing is for certain. Life in America is going to be even more restrictive as a result of this. GrubberMints never let a good tragedy go to waste. And will waste no time in implementing more draconian laws to further subjugate its people.

"""
Let's see...which would I rather contend with (1) a bomb such as the one in Boston Marathon recently, or (2) a gunman carrying a machine gun shooting people at the Boston marathon?
"""

How about (3)
a gunman carrying a machine gun shooting people at the Boston marathon surrounded by hundreds carrying concealed weapons with which to defend themselves?

"""
I wonder which weapon would have killed the most people Hasbeen?
"""

Indeed!

The US has a long history of domestic terrorism going back to the early 1800s.

There's always been a lot of hatred in America! And it won't stop with the Boston bombing attack.

G'day; BELLY; LEXI; SUSEONLINE & ARJAY...

Thank you LEXI and ARJAY for the links you both provided me with, they're interesting both of them. These false leads the US seem to have a proclivity to promote are a worry for sure, ARJAY ?

Perhaps, I've not been specific enough, with either the title or substance of this Topic initially ? I was not trying to draw any link, significance, or comparison, between the new F/A laws or the Marathon Bombings. I've not got sufficient facts in which to do so, other than what's contained in the media.

It was (in my opinion) the inane, intemperate remarks uttered by a so called educated, right wing commentator, with a listening audience of circa 11 million people. Where he stated inter alia, not once but several times, words to the effect '...no government is going to take my firearms from me...' ? This was said during his long diatribe, against both the President and the way he's handling the 'Boston Marathon Bombing'.

Whether he (Dr Savage) was attempting to link the F/A's issue, and the Bombing matter together, I don't know ? It was his PUBLIC intransigency, against the Firearm Laws, with his challenging statement, that worries me. We all know there are many gun totting mentally ill people possessing an arsenal of weapons in the US. And these people are almost being encouraged (by DR Savage) to flout any new F/A law the government seeks to introduce.

That sure would worry me if I lived in the United States. I reckon you and I would be on the same page here LEXI, and my old mate BELLY ? The thing is, there are millions and millions of lovely well balanced folk in America, why can't they all get together and DESPITE this 2nd Amendment nonsense, for their children's sake, and toughen up the ownership laws for Firearms ? For the preservation of ALL children, ALL of them ?

o sung wu, "there now lies an electronic 'trail' if you like"

No there isn't. You can look it up on the desktop in the station. No-one watches and no-one cares. Routine stuff. Any idiot can save it to a mobile device. You can check in-car. The standard driver's licence scan does it for you anyhow.

Again, this has nothing to do with the bombing. It is speculation, conspiracy and hysteria.

just adding to Susies predictable rant

'Whether that sort of behaviour is fueled by a hate of guns, a hate of a God, or a hatred of locals etc remains to be seen

Hi there BANJO; HASBEEN and ONTHEBEACH...

The question of storage has always reared it's head. Though in NSW and VIC they require containers to be made of specific material and locked in an approved way, the average crook will generally gain entry if he wishes. Bolts and munitions are to be stored separately.

And you're correct when you state BANJO, the average rifle, one used in rural situations are not as attractive to crooks as one that can be modified, shortened, or suppressed, etc. But I hasten to add, any firearm is preferred to no firearm. In my working days, the preferred weapon of choice were shotguns, either single or side by side, but not so much U and O's or self-loading, though an 870P was pretty good or similar even the fantastic old Ithaca 37DS, also in slide action was pretty worthwhile too ! Neither had chokes, so I could only imagine what one felt like (felt recoil) with it's barrel shortened ?

From my experience, crooks are paying good money for imported arms, particularly wheel-guns rather that semi-auto's. Though, again I hasten to add, a gun is a gun, some more desirable then others. We knocked this bloke and his 'girl' of, and she was packing an old TPH in .25 cal. She claimed it wouldn't work ? Yet, she had one up the spout, and it was cocked ready to rock n' roll ! They have a trigger pull of around 3lbs when cocked, yet she had the thing stuffed in her back pocket of her jeans - with a trigger pull of just 3lbs, amazing ? A very lucky young lady, and so were we too ? Her boyfriend knew nothing about pistols either, so he had his girlfriend, carry it for him by all accounts.

Often too gentlemen, when discussing F/A's you tend to see and hear quite a bit of what's called 'ballistic masturbation', among crooks and many young blokes - very interesting I can tell you.

o sung wu

You are right to say that criminals, even the amateur ones, get their guns imported. Besides, they like 'gangsta' looking pistols that worry the uninitiated.

The unusual (and it is uncommon!) theft from a licensed owner never feature in crime (apart from the original theft and the offender keeping it unlicensed). That is not me saying that. It is from police statistics. The very few long arms stolen from legal owners are expensive high quality items, keepsakes, ie 'safe queens'. Collector value (overseas?).

What is not funny is that it is the recreational drugs consumed by well-off professionals and others with $$ to blow that support the drug syndicates that import the guns.

Police must get exasperated with the smart-A middle class recreational drug users who are responsible for the very large profits in the drug trade, yet the mealy mouthed middle class educated elite SOBs talk up 'gun control'! There would be very few guns used by criminals in Australia if it were not for the drug trade.

But none of that has anything to do with the bombings in the US.

the more we tolerate abnormality the more we must accept it. There is an alternative but most people don't like discipline especially those who think they know better.

The media always make so worthwhile to people who commit terrorism. The terrorist act is the gold standard way of getting huge publicity, including photos and footage of the dreadful consequences at a personal level.

There is a difference between reporting and making a sensationalist production and series out of it.

How could the media be responsible citizens and not give the offenders and would-be offenders the sensationalist publicity they seek?

O Sung,
I'm surprised you'd be a fan of Michael Savage, he's not known as a respected source of good information, he'd be on a par with Alex Jones in my opinion. ie take his words with a grain of salt.
Savage always tries to connect everything into some anti White/Anti Patriot/ anti first and second amendment conspiracy but ask yourself, why would someone who is not White himself be so concerned about making these links? All he's doing is spreading disinformation, perpetuating these false links between terrorism, which for the most part has clearly defined objectives and constitutionalism or patriot causes via the medium of this nonsensical "False Flag" trope.
Who do we trust, well nobody, but whose views fit the world as we, normal, rational men know it?
Ryan Dawson is as decent a commentator as you will probably get, but, again portions of what he says are merely plausible, but not probable the stuff about Israel and 9-11 for example:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rys2sense
Davis Aurini, is reasonable, his arguments make sense, but again, as a rational man you have to see if they fit with your understanding of the way the world works:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Aurini/featured

Alex Jones has just released real evidence that something is wrong about the official story.They were conducting an simulated attack at the very time the real bombs went off.Bomb sniffer dogs were there and navy seal people were wearing back packs.People were been told that this was only exercise and not to panic.

The official story that a suspect had been found was canned when Alex Jones released this evidence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player-embedded&v=axQtAFtmtVA#!

Alex Jones has declared that this is his biggest bust in 18 yrs.

'evening folks...

Hi ONTHEBEACH...

With respect, there IS a 'trail' for an auditor to follow. When one attempts access to a particular Site, your ID Number, Rank and Name are entered, and depending on your 'need to know' clearance, access may be granted provided your Password is on the list of police who are 'allowed access'.

Be assured, there are a number of heavily protected Sites, that access thereto is heavily restricted, far more then the general public are aware, and are not part of public access, in terms of FOI ?

Your illustration of a terminal located on the charge counter being easily seen by the public - well, I don't know why that occurred ? Other than total lack of professionalism by the member operating that terminal ? As a sergeant, I'd kick his arse till his nose bled, if I was OIC of the shift ! That terminal from memory (it may have changed ?) would furnish access to very basic data available to police, and nothing that rated special access, that many of the detectives would have a need to know.

Mate, we're all human. Even us dumb coppers. Most take the job seriously, some don't. Those who don't, are simply slugs n' dogs. Much of the data contained in the police network, is for the protection and safety of police. So he/she can return home in one piece at the end of his/her shift. These 'Joe cool' coppers who are straight out slack, rendering their colleagues at considerable risk, would be harshly dealt with when detected, and detected they are, in the fullness of time.

Actually BELLY old friend I was referring more to the remarks/statement of Dr Savage, challenging the government to (try) take his firearms. You're right, they do seem to value their right to a firearm, more highly than anyone else from a comparable demographic ? I for one will never truly understand, their need of that all important 2nd Amendment right ? The paramount safety of a child, is far more important than my right to a F/A.

Arjay,
Those guys with the backpacks have Cop written all over them but "false flag" attacks just don't happen, the most credible theories are:
Islamic extremist (probable).
FBI or BATF sting operation gone wrong (plausible).
Lone nut (probable).
If Sandy Hook didn't convince the politicians to clamp down on second amendment rights how would an unclaimed bombing in Boston, of all places do a better job?
All of this "false flag" malarkey fails the reason test, "does this fit with the world as we know it?".
Tyrants don't mess about, they round up people they don't like and kill them or throw them in jail, the fighters who oppose them attack without mercy but they make it known to all why they are killing people and blowing things up. The 1970's were the heyday of terrorism in the West, all of these events including 9-11 fit that pattern, false flags and an American government intent on liquidating it's domestic critics doesn't.

Hi there JAY OF MELBOURNE...

Actually, I'm not a fan of Dr Savage. What I do like about him, is some of his comments about government, in fact all governments per se. The appearance they the government wish to regulate and control, all facets of our lives with the notional perpetuation of larger and larger governments, rather than less official intrusion into the way we live, and bring up our children, I find quite plausible and cogent ?

To me personally, he epitomizes the typical 'angry man'. My question JAY O M., is why does he enjoy such a loyal and dedicated listening audience ? When clearly what he needs to do, is breathe in the fresh air, smell the flowers, watch the enduring beauty of birds in flight, and take a moment or two to relax, really relax completely.

Seemingly, Dr Savage must lead a dreary life, of seeking out evidence of where the US is going wrong. Rather than looking for evidence of what the country is doing right ? Sure, many would describe him as a Shock Jock a Redneck etc. Yet many of the listeners who ring in, speak quite well and have some intelligent, well thought out and constructive comments to make ? Provided of course Dr Savage will allow them to speak ! Also he can be very boorish and straight out rude at times, particularly if you dare to disagree with what he says ? Ah well, he's probably paid very very well, so someone must like his style ?

JayofMelbourne.I suggest you look at the real scientific evidence here.http://www.ae911truth.org/ Scroll down and see ref to the Sydney Morning Herald and the Melbourne Age showing."Experts Speak Out."

This site demonstates scientifically that the WTC Towers and WTC 7 were 100% controlled demolition.

o sung wu, "Your illustration of a terminal located on the charge counter being easily seen by the public"

No I didn't say open to the public.

Are you aware that the firearms licence is noted on the drivers licence?

And no again, to there always being a trail.

I have a lot of sympathy for the police. But there is no avoiding the lack of security of the details of licensed firearms ownership. Worse, the firearms registries have yet to solve a case, they burn up resources that should be used collaring crims. Overseas, Canada for instance, the firearms registries were found to be wasteful white elephants.

As well, the police have at least in one State been penetrated by a close contact of an OMG. That was in the papers.

o sung wu, "I for one will never truly understand, their need of that all important 2nd Amendment right ? The paramount safety of a child, is far more important than my right to a F/A"

That is a false dilemma.

Returning to the subject of the thread, there is no evidence of who committed this bombing act of terrorism, or why.

However, in a probably unrelated event, a Mississippi man has been arrested for the act of terrorism in sending letters with suspected ricin poison to US President Barack Obama and other leaders.

We should all be concerned at the way the media sensationalises acts of terrorism, including terrorist acts involving firearms. The crimes need to be reported, but the drama and speculation and eventual publicity for every aspect of the offender's life and views are going over the top and can easily bring on copycats.

Dear onthebeach,

Now you are being a dill.

For you to claim databases can be accessed by the ordinary serving member “without leaving a trace of his query” was so much in the vein of your own words they bear repeating again. “Obviously you just make things up as you go, hoping that no-one will as the obvious questions.”

My own knowledge is not only the news but my cousin who is an instructor within Vicpol. The message about inappropriate use of the database is hammered into new recruits, as are the consequences of misuse. Even the simple act of not logging off can trash a career.

And now o sung wu has seen fit to spell it out for you.

Time to drop it my friend.

Dear Raw Mustard,

The Israelis are masters at black operations so a small teaser on a Jewish news service is to be expected. Zero credibility though.

As to your inane question about whether a perpetrator with a machine gun firing into the assembled crowds would have killed more people before being stopped is patently unintelligent hogwash. Look how many the Aurora shootings claimed in under 7 minutes or the 650 rounds and over 300 law enforcement officers including SWAT teams it took to subdue the North Hollywood shooters.

csteele,

The problem is that you are winging it and have no idea.

I have already given an easy, non-traceable way of accessing the information which is through a normal drivers licence check, where the firearms ownership appears automatically. I have also referred to other avenues which have not been dispelled by what o sung wu has written. Maybe o sung wu might date and source his knowledge (his observation or others?) of the operation of the registry and management of firearms licence information.

The simple notion that a cop needs such information before visiting a home or stopping a car means that the information is provided automatically, whether he wants it or not, and matched with the home addresses. Where the data is so widespread any assurance of confidentiality is laughable.

Has your cousin mentioned any management controls specific to firearms registration and firearms licence data to you other than the general penalties that apply to loss/publication/misuse of information? Do try not to have me rolling on the floor in gales of laughter by pretending that there are regular independent audits of the management and access to such data. For starters, a common complaint of licensed owners is that the information held by the registry is wrong and not up to date.

Again, returning to the subject of the thread, there is no information from the investigation of the subject bombing that could suggest any of the BS claims of links with gun control. That is just speculative gossip and muck raking.

@ csteele

Interesting you should mention the Israelis, csteele.
http://rt.com/usa/police-israel-investigation-boston-009/

Why?

And please do share your knowledge of Israeli blackops.
Oh and I wasn't claiming my link to be fact, just as I posted. Food for thought!

Now you're trying to tell me that you'd rather face a hidden explosive device than a mad man with a gun when you have one yourself in order to defend yourself? Are you nuts?

And just on the Hollywood Shooters. Quoted from, Wikipedia.
"""
In October 1993, Larry Eugene Phillips and Emil Decebal were arrested in Glendale, northeast of Los Angeles, California, for speeding. A subsequent search of their vehicle—after Phillips surrendered with a concealed weapon—found two semi-automatic rifles, two handguns, more than 1,600 rounds of 7.62×39mm rifle ammunition, 1,200 rounds of 9×19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP handgun ammunition, radio scanners, smoke bombs, improvised explosive devices, body armor vests, and three different California licence plates. Initially charged with conspiracy to commit robbery, both served one hundred days in jail and were placed on three years' probation. After their release, most of their seized property was returned to them.
"""

Both served one hundred days in jail?
After their release, most of their seized property was returned to them?

And you want to claim guns are at fault?

And Eagan Holmes was in the care of a shrink and was on psychiatric medication.
But it was the guns fault? Sure you are, righty ho, NOT!

@ o sung wu
"""
Dr Savage must lead a dreary life, of seeking out evidence of where the US is going wrong.
"""

There are lots of doom "Profits" in America, o sung wu. It would seem to be a very lucrative business over there?

As long as people are getting unfairly screwed they'll retaliate. What is so difficult to understand about that. The degree as to how much someone feels they're being screwed for depends on their upbringing & subsequent nurtured mentality. It would be found that those with a background of some discipline are better people.

Runner it is quite hard to ignore your posting style.
You have in just a few words shown a bias that fact fails include.
In America, rather than hatred of God, the fact is some of the worst groups say KKK claim God is on their side.
And while far too early to judge anyone this may be, not evidence to back me up, combined with a possible bomb in the fertilizer plant, a branch Davian Church, related event.
Just as o sung wo [and myself] know great folk live in America, so too do strange folk who kill with little reason.
America shows politicians, those who voted against gun reform, think more of re election some times than what is best for the country.

The FBI has just released photographs of the suspects. They can be found here.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/photos

One step closer to finding the bastards who did this.

Belly

godless people have no problem murdering the unborn so it would not surprise if they murdered the born. do you think it might be a salvation army officer?

Dear onthebeach,

Lol. A clown as well as a dill?

So you are trying to say o sung wu's information is out of date? For that to assist your vacuous argument you would need to show that database protocols have been slackened rather than tightened since he left the force. Fantasy world my friend.

My brother has always said the most fearful moments of his time in law enforcement was collecting kids from a man's house after a Family Court ruling knowing there were weapons in the house. Should he be entitled to that information as part of doing his job? Of course.

Can I remind you of exactly what you claimed;

“What is a worry though is that the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”

So you literally put the police in the frame stating they are “the likely source of information for thefts”.

I'm not sure what o sung wu thinks about this but on behalf of my brother, my cousin and my grandfather I certainly consider this shameful, disrespectful and cuckoo land stuff that is far more appropriate in the US not here.

It probably leaves you with 3 options, grow up, get help, or shift.

Dear RawMustard,

Diverting yet again?

Those guys were able to fire off over a thousand rounds before they were brought down. How many of those spectators crowded into the stands at the marathon would have died with even a fraction of those rounds tearing into them? It doesn't take much of a brain to know it would be a darn sight more than 3.

Whatever my concerns about surveillance cameras affecting privacy of ordinary citizens I am thankful those cameras were there to capture those photographs.

Now for the public to spot the fiends.

I can think of no more fitting punishment than full lifetime stays in jail somewhere, where every day they can contemplate the evil they wrought on innocents. They are monsters.

I also hope that the idiotic, sensationalist media does not give them a voice and everlasting notoriety. They should rot in jail, knowing that they are forgotten. That must be obvious. It is the only real deterrent to other possible offenders. That and the certainty of arrest.

It is difficult to understand why, but recently in Australia a newspaper gave publicity to the scum who murdered British traveller Peter Falconio and assaulted his girlfriend, Joanne Lees. The fiend even blamed the stricken girlfriend for the offence. Criminals rejoice in their notoriety for bragging rights in jail at least. They don't want to be forgotten. Yet a rag of a paper did just that. See here,
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2013/04/10/319429_ntnews.html

By god the U.S media are pathetic, they just can't let go of their White bashing for a second, either that or they're just plain stupid...or blind, or both.
Just now I was listening to All Things Considered on the radio and the presenter, Robert Siegel was making puzzled noises over those FBI photos and saying that the suspects appear to be "two White men in their mid twenties".
Now do those guys look White? Or do they look like West Asians, my guess would be Afghans or Pakistanis. Middle class Jewish liberal Robert Siegel is unlikely to have met a West Asian man in person so here are some shots to compare so we can all laugh at silly Robert from NPR

This is a White man in his mid twenties:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1586729984/nm0159789

This is an Afghan man in his mid twenties:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/violinsoldier/230405287/

This is a Pakistani man in his mid twenties:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47003347@N03/4412841720/

cstelle,

I do not resile from any of my statements. Those are the facts and no-one, least of all you, can dispel what is fact. As usual I will disregard your verballing and ad hominens.

Any system that makes the names and addresses of licensed firearms owners universally and routinely available to anyone in the police without gates and real monitoring -a robust, controlled and monitored access, at least a good reason being shown- is open to abuse. The registry and the computer have put all personal details of all licensed persons in the one place. It is as simple to find out an individual's details as doing a drivers licence check, where the other information is automatically shown.

In a recent truly idiotic move to place at a media concerned about OMG random shootings as a result of territory disputes over drug territory, the NSW government has required the law-abiding licensed persons to provide all personal particulars and gun ownership details when purchasing ammunition. So every employee in the gun shops have access to that confidential information on paper. So much for the Police Commissioner's judgement and any concern to protect the confidentiality of such information.

But then I don't suppose your relative told you about that either. LOL

Going back once again to the OP, there is no evidence whatsoever to support speculation that the bombing terrorism has anything to do with gun laws. Honestly, what was that commentator smoking?

Third para above should be, "In a recent truly idiotic move to placate a media concerned about OMG random shootings..."

Runner, what I truly and honestly think.
Is that you are no servant to the God I once followed.
That you unlike he, love to hate sections of humanity.
You will not agree, and even re reading your own posts will not convince you.
But it is an honestly held view, you do a disservice to Christianity.
We all can jump to conclusions about not just this, an awful tragic event, but others too, an hour ago not far away from this scene a police man was shot, on University grounds.
Near an hourly event in America.
We however while condemning who ever did this, other actions in the news.
If claiming to be informed, not overlook such murderers come from both extremes in that country.
And some claiming to be acting for God, murder in his name, right to life murders are a true reminder it is so.

G'day to all you good people...

One of our contributors herein queried if the commentator (Dr Michael Savage) was attempting to link the events of the Bombing, to the tough new gun laws recently enacted in MA. in some way ? I can't really say ?

Essentially, my quarrel with Dr Savage is simply this. I believe Dr Savage, as a public 'entertainer' has acted quite recklessly and injudiciously, by publicly, almost challenging the government to try and take away his firearms. All the while asserting both his moral and legal right to possess and use those firearms pursuant to the provisions of the 2nd Amendment.

I don't know about the US, but here in Oz, it may well amount to a criminal offence ? To 'incite' a person to commit an unlawful act, in itself, could be argued as a inchoate offence to that of 'sedition' ? I'd need to dust off my old law tomes to have a look at the criminal proofs. Incitement being the antecedent to that of 'Sedition' - I'm not altogether sure, it might well belong within the aegis of the 'Federallies' (the AFP) ?

In any event, it's my opinion that Dr Savage has both a moral as well as a public duty to act responsibly. There's enough horror in America at the moment, without some of these Shock Jocks stirring the pot and adding to it, by making some of these precipitous and rash statements. There again, anything for a buck !

Many thanks to all of you marvellous people who've kindly added, both manifestly and intellectually to this topic. I really do appreciate it. And to many of those who I've not yet responded,individually, I hope to very soon.

Cheers...Sung Wu.

Dr Savage is probably playing for the other side while posing as a redneck gun owner.

Complicated, but hey, that can be a result of all of that herbalism and alternative therapies he is into.

Maybe if he had a few lamb chops and did a bit of real work.

He is just another serial pest.

Dear onthebeach,

I usually try to engage in each new thread in an even-handed manner.

I put up with “Your allegation is a fabrication, completely baseless and devoid of fact.”

I tapped the 'mendacious' comment back over the net without escalating things but then you kicked on with “Obviously you just make things up as you go, hoping that no-one will as the obvious questions.”

And now you want to leap on to your high horse and whinge about my so called “ verballing and ad hominens”.

Get real. Show me where I have verballed you.

I post a link to a news article about criminal gangs targeting farmers for their weapons and you come back and basically finger the police. Remember - “the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”

When challenged you link to a story about an employee (not it seems an actual policeman) working in a police armoury who has allegedly stolen some weapons. There is no suggestion that he had open access to the entire police database at all.

Your attacks on the police are scurrulous and without foundation and while any right minded individual would see fit to withdraw them you have instead seen fit not to do the opposite. I leave others here to draw their own conclusions.

Dear RawMustard,

Sorry mate I missed your question.

Quote;

“Interesting you should mention the Israelis, csteele.
http://rt.com/usa/police-israel-investigation-boston-009/

Why? “

End quote.

Well if you had bothered to read the article you would have seen the answer.

“The paper reports that Israeli law enforcement planned the trip before the deadly pair of bombings on Monday that has so far claimed three lives”

This is just coming through my media feeds.

It is making it difficult to get any work done.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sunil-tripathi-video-missing-ivy-league-student-case-18845408

http://i.imgur.com/3Bh7rkc.gif

Looks like they have names and possibly the suspects in custody.

"""
Essentially, my quarrel with Dr Savage is simply this. I believe Dr Savage, as a public 'entertainer' has acted quite recklessly and injudiciously, by publicly, almost challenging the government to try and take away his firearms. All the while asserting both his moral and legal right to possess and use those firearms pursuant to the provisions of the 2nd Amendment.

I don't know about the US, but here in Oz, it may well amount to a criminal offence ? To 'incite' a person to commit an unlawful act, in itself, could be argued as a inchoate offence to that of 'sedition' ?
"""

No doubt constitutionalists love to exercise their rights fully and with conviction. You can witness the resolve of such American Patriots all over the net everyday. This would fall under their first Amendment right to free speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_ammendment
see the section titled "Speech critical of the government"

It would appear their Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 are unconstitutional so therefore he was doing no wrong. But then IANAL!

I think what needs to be understood here is that most people in his current government fail to understand what "shall not be infringed" really means. Americans are getting sick and tired of being trodden on by OBomber. I can fully understand the level of frustration that must be running through their veins at the moment, o sung wu. Not indifferent to many Aussies totally pissed with that wicked, witch of the west.

Should he not have the right to challenge a deaf government when they are clearly trying to destroy his constitutionally granted and god given liberties? I mean what part of "shall not be infringed" don't they get?

csteele,

I have drawn attention to systemic problems affecting the confidentiality the firearms registries and firearms licences (all States and Territories being mirror images in procedure and policy), and given examples. No-one has dispelled those facts and examples.

Police do not want to waste their time polishing chairs watching over the shoulders of people who are of such good character to obtain firearms licences. They would much prefer to be out collaring the bad guys. Instead, hundreds of staff of firearms branches and of police in stations are wasted a week maintaining white elephant gun registries that have yet to solve a crime and most likely never will. -Because criminals do not obtain licences, they do not register their guns and they do not buy them from lawful suppliers. Elementary.

The whole bureaucratic, paper shuffling sham is an edifice to populist politics and a consequence of governments being unwilling to staff and train police adequately, and of the failure of policies of both sides of government to address drugs and violence.

Returning once again to the subject of the OP, none of the investigations underway in the US have unearthed any motivation, cause or offender.

Good evening to you RAWMUSTARD...

My opinion and observation of what particular activities Dr Savage was engaged were not a test of any technical infringements that the good Doctor may or may not have committed, apropos anything contained in United States Criminal Jurisprudence.

What in fact I did contemplate and ruminate upon was. If Dr Savage were to engaged in similar conduct, here in NSW, or in any other State or Territory in the Commonwealth, what legal remedies might be available for the DPP to pursue a successful prosecution ?

To your other comments - I too share your concerns and exasperations at the way governments are continually seeking additional strategies and mechanisms to further regulate and manage every minute of every day of our lives ! This continual intrusion by government does smack of 'Big Brother', and the word 'privacy' has almost vanished.

Many thanks for your contribution, I do appreciate it.

Good evening to you CSTEELE & ONTHEBEACH...

ONTHEBEACH, your novel description of Dr Savage being a 'serial pest', may well be correct. Serial Pest or not, he still could prove a dangerous, inflammatory, and even seditious 'Serial Pest', nevertheless ?

CSTEELE, the varying opinion's expressed herein, on the subject of the overall integrity of the protected, police EDP systems, is in reality quite complex ?

Certainly, assertions by ONTHEBEACH that the protected EDP system(s) have been compromised from time to time is quite true. Command are very conscience of maintaining and preserving the overall integrity of the systems, therefore members from recruits to the top are being reminded continually, about following correct protocol and ensuring security is preserved at all times.

That said, all sworn and unsworn members do have access to various programmes, from a limited or basic access, to a much higher access. Depending on the member's functions and 'need to know'.

Believe it or not, rank itself, doesn't determine the level of access, and plays little part of being granted authorisation. There are/were public servants who enjoy almost unfettered access to criminal intelligence. Some, much higher than sworn members.

In fact, so serious was Command's attitude to unfettered, unnecessary, and unauthorised access to Protected Data, it became a topic for discussion at the Police Commissioner's Annual Conference a few years back. The unforgivable sin is, the unauthorised disclosure of protected material ! Command are very savage on that ?

That said, coppers are (surprisingly) human. With all the strengths and weaknesses that come from being human. So, as Mr Forest Gump so quaintly put it, 's..t happens' ? So does corruption, so does sloppy work, lack of professionalism, etc. etc. ? Despite police data systems being closely monitored, things do happen, and it does 'hit the fan' big time.

Belly you write

'That you unlike he, love to hate sections of humanity.'

Do u really believe this or are you writing lies like you have in the past. It hard to reason with people willing to lie.

Runner know I beleive what I write always.
And that I truly think,unlike your self have my sides blood on my pen.
I think your health may be a factor, mental health!
So we now know it was not guns that murdered those folk in America.
We can blame Hate, and a religion that uses it to keep its followers behind it, a dangerous religion a hate filled one, for those within it, willing to take the extremist path.
We can not however forget this threads look at guns and America, the country breeds such folk with no links to Islam, and we have much to talk of.
I am again visiting my clash with runner, the poster has found ways to confront many who post here.
And his enormous CONTEMPT FOR MY PARTY, UNIONS, ALMOST ANYTHING, ARE WELL KNOWN.
Do I turn the other cheek, always?
Is being gentlemanly and lie-ing to save a difficult situation better?
Then if that is so we train our selves to lie!
Is my post any more offensive than runners?

>>Do u really believe this or are you writing lies like you have in the past.<<

Runner all you ever do in your posts is express hate for sections of humanity. If you want us to believe that you really love all of mankind equally then maybe your posts should start reflecting that?

Cheers,

Tony

I re read the whole thread, it is a good one o sung wo, but found here a interesting fact, IMO.
We, many of us found reason for conspiracy theory,s , Arjay won the best presentation later.
But we did dredge out many differing thoughts, even me, on who did it.
But lets look, it took less time to get the right folk than we, or most of us thought.
A great effort and one having future impacts,*CAMERAS* in phones, surveillance, TV, a good out come.
I hope we see them used much more, not less and that the safety of people comes before thoughts of privacy.

Once again there should be applause for the detective work of police. Grinding attention to detail, no leaping to conclusions and deliberate, planned action.

Meanwhile the feckless media get in the road encouraging speculation and leaning on decision-makers to take precipitive, ill-conceived, populist decisions based on what the media's instant experts say. All to attract an audience for BS 24 'news' services, where the TV makes the news. That is, they invent and stage manage most of it.

We should be criticising the media for the way such terrorism is covered and the distinct likelihood that copy cats will be encouraged in the future.

Tony Lavis

'Runner all you ever do in your posts is express hate for sections of humanity. If you want us to believe that you really love all of mankind equally then maybe your posts should start reflecting that? '

There is only One who has loved humanity equality and it certainly ain't you or I. I have no problem admitting that I hate the ideology of feminism or the corruption of unionism or the child abuse in churches. This does not mean I hate 'humanity' as you deceitfully imply along with Belly. It is actually a favourite tactic of the left to demonise those that disagree

"""
We, many of us found reason for conspiracy theory,s , Arjay won the best presentation later.
"""

All I know is. If you ever hear of a government organised drill happening. Run for your life!

I just came to this thread. Its pretty funny reading the knee-jerk postings...right wing gun lobby, blah blah; navy seals, blah blah; government coverup, blah blah.

Its really very simple. When there's a terrorist attack, 99 out of 100 its Islamists. Take it to the bank.

Now the big issue is how to blame it on the USA. But that'll be easy for those of a certain leaning. After all, these kids (or their parents) asked for and were given asylum, rescuing them from whatever threats they sought to escape. then they educated the kids, offered and gave them scholarships, housing, access to all the advantages of a first world nation. Clearly therefore their radicalisation was all the USA's fault (sarc off).

the other big question is how to stop this in the future. Clearly we need background checks on those buying pressure cookers.

Indeed JG could win the next election by promising a pressure-cooker buy-back scheme.

The gun control activists blaming the NRA for the bombing would be the classic conspiracy.

Aided by the dude who pretends to be an avid redneck gun nut to trash lawful gun owners.

Then there were the luvvies who got in fast with reverse psychology. They proactively blamed anyone and everyone to circumvent any consideration of the likely Muslim terrorist.

The Left also had all sorts of hares running about the government doing it because, well, the Left has an irrational hatred of the US anyhow.

In the end it was the usual suspects. Now for the Left luvvies to rationalise the offenders' monstrous crimes somehow to still blame the US. Can't have fundamentalists blamed for fostering hate and grooming youth to kill innocents.

Dear o sung wu,

You wrote;

“Certainly, assertions by ONTHEBEACH that the protected EDP system(s) have been compromised from time to time is quite true”

Of course it stands to reason if the EDP hadn't been prone to abuse then there would no need to strengthen protocols. But that was not what he was asserting at all.

He went far past that to put “the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”

Quite specific and labels the police as the prime suspects as suppliers of information for the thefts in Geelong. I rejected that as scurrilous and without foundation and will continue to do so. He was asked to withdraw it. He didn't. If you choose to disregard that fact then that is your prerogative. I choose not to.

Dear onthebeach,

You are at it again.

Ultimately this in the end was not a measured investigation, it was a gigantic role of the dice. That dice was the decision to unleash the media hounds.

“The decision that led to their quarry - whether or not to make photos of the suspects public - was something of a gamble, one that investigators had to weigh carefully.

Quote;

"Releasing the photos greatly increased the odds the two men would be recognized and turned in, even as it significantly upped the chances they would try to vanish or commit more mayhem - exactly the scenario that played out.
"Clearly these guys were reacting and responding exactly as (law enforcement) predicted," said Robert Taylor, a criminologist at the University of Texas at Dallas who studies terrorism. "If you saw your face on TV and everywhere else as associated with the bombing ... you would act irrationally, and that's exactly what they did."
End quote.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/19/3354253/photos-force-suspects-move-breaking.html

Prudent? It could have had a far worse outcome, though the family of the slain officer might have a different opinion.

>>I have no problem admitting that I hate the ideology of feminism or the corruption of unionism or the child abuse in churches. This does not mean I hate 'humanity' as you deceitfully imply along with Belly.<<

Talk about selective quoting. I write 'sections of humanity' and runner creatively abbreviates it to 'humanity', radically altering its meaning: 'sections of humanity' implies SOME people while 'humanity' implies ALL people.

I wasn't trying to accuse you of hating all people runner: I know you don't hate everyone. You like people who agree with you and you hate everyone that disagrees with you. You seem to take it as some sort of personal affront when people hold views which are different from your own. What's up with that?

Cheers,

Tony

O Sung Wu This is worth seeing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WQeqE943Uo This is the episode from the Family Guy showing the two separate scenes of their version of a Boston Bombing.Note this is the same episode and story line.It was released just 3 weeks prior the actual Marathon.

If terrorists were copying Family Guy,how did they organise such an attack so quickly?

What is the probability of a cartoon predicting by chance an almost identical scenario?

What do you think O Sung Wu?

csteele,

I can't take you seriously when you make no effort to read and comprehend replies and as well, claim that it was just luck, a 'roll of the dice' that resulted in the bomber arrests.

That is just silly.

Back to Oz, here is a news item which might give you cause to review your previous opinion that no police would ever stray from the straight and narrow because they have punishments for breaking any rules,

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cop-faces-corruption-gun-and-drug-charges-20130420-2i6np.html

Of course I was talking about the systemic faults in the operational procedures and lack of adequate, robust management controls affecting the confidentiality of data held on lawful, licensed firearms owners There will always be deliberate breaches as well, which given the paucity of controls over the said firearms licensing and registration information, could easily result in the full gamut of personal particulars name of all licensed owners to be publicised to criminals.

In a way it is thankful that criminals have their own supplies of guns for their drug business enforcement and are not bothered to pursue those of private owners.

Dear onthebeach,

This is real easy my friend. Whatever explanation you are now giving for your words it is completely hollow without you retracting the very serious allegation that “the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”

Are the police the “the likely source of information for thefts” or not? Simple. Retract and we can move on. Don't and be judged by your statement.

Good afternoon folks...

Concerning the media and any practical part they may play in assisting, hindering, or inciting a crime or the commission of a crime, is quite valid in my opinion. In my time, I cannot ever recall where the media and coppers were ever cosy bedfellows, rather the contrary unfortunately.

Before the time specialist media advisors were appointed, there was often a senior person identified who could both present well, and was particularly articulate, and he/she would 'carry the can' for most of the stuff (more policy announcements) the Commissioner could deflect their way !

Today, they have a whole department full of former journalists and presenters, who both understood media, and were familiar with many of the 'heavy hitters' in the various News Corporations.

Make no mistake, media are enormously powerful and influential, and can literally 'eat' the average copper for breakfast.

It's for this reason I thoroughly condemn Dr Savage for the intemperate remarks he made the other day. Even today, he further compounded the issue by recommending a shotgun as a preferred option ! This is the man with a reported listening audience of 11 million people, in a land that by all accounts, absolutely worships firearms, almost to the point of veneration.

And will cling unrelentingly to their absolute right to possess and use their F/A's. To a point beyond that of ordinary reason, even an abnormality perhaps ? With many gun owners (similar to some that I've encountered), their need to possess and use their guns, has become almost obsessional, moving irrevocably to the far side of unrestrained mania ? Very very worrying for police ?

Another thing, he (obscurely) tried to link the new MA gun laws (post Sandy Hook) to the Bombing ? By claiming the culprit's chose Boston as an easier target, ostensibly because MA was the least prepared State in the lower forty eight, to accommodate a Bombing incident ? Interesting really, considering the number of gun manufacturers, both in MA & CT. Springfield MA, the home of S & W, and other ancillary parts producers.

Dear o sung wu,

In my opinion these three videos demonstrate some of the issues law enforcement face in trying to protect the citizens in their jurisdictions in the US while balancing the rights of gun toters.

The first two are self recorded interactions with officers when being challenged over open carry of weapons. Two different approaches and outcomes. The third is a news reports of two people doing a down town walk with firearms, the fear they cause, and surprisingly for me the camouflage head gear worn by one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rih1ogXCxAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8r4MK3R4PI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbvkw-_-DVc

Besides being interested on your take of the above the question I have for you, as a former police officer, is how much more difficult, if at all, would this make the job for law enforcement within Australia if these 'freedoms' were extended here?

Tony

'You like people who agree with you and you hate everyone that disagrees with you'

No doubt you are omniscience and can name these people I hate.

csteele,

You are ignorant of the basics of the firearms laws in Australia and of the procedures used by the firearms registries and in stations. No-one can educate you on that and your relative is a poor source or you have not asked the right questions.

Your idiotic mission was to somehow link the terrorist bombings in the US with gun control. You failed.

Good evening to you ARJAY...

Thank you for that Link,'Family Guy'. ARJAY my friend, what can I say ? These yanks - and I do have some very close American friends - never fail to amaze me with their bizarre take on humour, their many conspiracy theories, their whole 'overkill' on matters of crime and terrorism, ever pushing their individual 'rights' to the limit. What about the 'rights' of the majority eh ?

If a dumb witted, ex copper like me can see what's wrong, what needs to be done, to at least halt this awful community decay, and this social decadence and unfettered violent behaviour. Surely others over there can now appreciate what remedies are needed to at least slow the inevitable decline of their entire society from disappearing forever into oblivion ? Why in hells name can't the many thousands of PH.D's do something about it !

Is there nobody over there with any sense of social responsibility ? Of course there are ! And I've been fortunate to meet many of them ARJAY, they're just like you and me. Ordinary people with families, worries, mortgages, bills to pay etc.

Yet all we ever seem to get from across the Pacific, is images of violence, talk of violence and evidence of horrific violence. Murder rape and mayhem. Add a liberal dash of terrorism, natural disasters, weird behaviour by selfish individuals wishing to 'push the envelope' while they exercise their individual 'freedoms'. Plus a plethora of dreadfully violent movies, unnatural human activity, etc ? What in hells name is wrong with their government, allowing all this crap to continue, worse perpetuate !

CSTEELE has furnished three links to videos, of some crazy American 'boofheads' strutting around US Cities openly carrying F/A's. Some appear to be carrying assault weapons (AR15's or similar) - testing their 2nd amendment rights to do so ! Bloody hell ARJAY, what is wrong with these people !?

Many thanks for you important contribution, I do appreciate it.

To return to the OP, the police found no evidence whatsoever of any link between the Boston bombing and the NRA. It was the usual suspects, Islamic fundamentalists and with the usual track record of 'education' by bigots in a mosque somewhere.

The csteele youtube video cr#p.
I only bothered with a bit of one video, suspecting what trash csteele would post. Some 'boofheads' is right and as is obvious they were making a highly contentious video. The cop treated them as immature fools out to get some publicity for themselves, 'You fellas show me yours and I will show you mine which is more tactical'. Or words to that effect. He was right. There is a host of such rubbish on the Net and to pretend it is an authoritative source is very foolish indeed.

But the video is no more representative of lawful firearms owners than the many videos on the Net of equally boof-headed motorbike riders and hoons trying to impress with their stupidity.

It is pitiful that anyone would trawl the Net for rubbish like that and try to opportunistically link it with a grievous act of terrorism. Next some videos from csteele on zombie killers

Good evening CSTEELE...

Thank you for the three links your furnished. I've just replied to ARJAY on a link he provided, though a slightly different 'take' to yours, nevertheless symbolically representing much of what's wrong with the United States today.

I watched all three as you'd requested. The first two, I saw about half of each, the message was abundantly clear. The third (and shortest in duration) I watched in it's entirety.

There's an offence in NSW, and in all States, if I'm not mistaken. The citation reads thus '...causing serious alarm or affront...'? It's not necessary to have a F/A or any weapon in fact, just that the 'conduct' (offence) must represent to 'a person' in a public street or place, to engage in conduct of a type that causes a 'serious alarm or affront' ! The conduct MUST involve frightening somebody severely,(the 'alarm' component) or, cause a serious 'affront'.

'Affront' can be defined as doing something as simple as 'verbal' eg vicious or obscene words, or religious slurs or gender vilification or similar ? There again, words themselves aren't necessary. Like offending the modesty or values of a person by a particular type of conduct ? An example would be your everyday 'flasher' ! There're other similar charges available also.

Those involved in the three clips, if they were to pursue exactly the same measure of conduct as depicted therein, they could arrested here. In fact I'd bet on it. In Oz individuals seen carrying sinister looking F/A's (legally or not) in public, would most assuredly frighten most people, in this day and age !

Further enquiries may well disclose additional offences too ? If not, there's the old standby, the 'Tarpaulin Act, of 1900. It's a very silly fellow, who chooses to taunt coppers ? Believe me ?

Interestingly, with a minor conviction the individual's future 'right to bear arms' may well become questionable even removed, as the applicant, may not pass the character test ?

Thanks for your contribution CSTEELE, I appreciate it.

Dear o sung wu,

Thank you for providing your perspective.

I'm a little in two minds over this. Of course one's initial reaction is always going to be 'What clowns!' It is sobering to think if the two Boston Marathon bombers did not have a criminal history then in some states they could walk into a movie theatre, a primary school, or a sporting event quite openly and legally carrying weapons and then inflict their brand of mayhem. It would make preventative law enforcement an absolute nightmare.

It is easy to label the actions in the videos as a reaction to tighter guns laws and an almost pathological reverence for the absolute right to own and bear arms, but there is another sense that police killings and brutality that is so often depicted in the US is eliciting a reaction from its citizenry.

We had a period of 10 years here in Victoria where there seemed to be a escalating war between the police and members of the criminal fraternity. It resulted in a number of police deaths including a bombing and a couple of double fatalities, one victim was a relative of my brother's then defacto. There were also a fair number of deaths on the other side of the ledger and it seemed as if the tit for tat would go on forever. I might get an argument from you on this count but it seemed strong leadership at senior levels of the force brought rouge, out of control elements within the force to heel, disbanding the worst squad and police deaths subsequently dropped dramatically.

I do not fear the police in this country but it is an unfortunate fact that for many in the US, not only those in minority communities, fear of police is normal. To have people arm arming themselves against tyranny, potentially from the government would not have any resonance here but I think it is a different story in the US. The Homeland Security laws in place since 9/11 would have undoubtedly escalated these sentiments.

You're right, damn they are in a mess.

Dear onthebeach,

More gibberish?

You are like an annoying little squid and every time you get backed into a corner you spray a heap of ink around thinking you might escape in the confusion.

This is indeed getting tiring for me and I assume the other readers here so just deal with it. Are you prepared to retract your statement that “the very gun registration that is supposed to prevent crime is the likely source of information for thefts. Any cop can access that data on all owners, what is held and where, and without leaving a trace of his query.”? It was slanderous, disrespectful and recognised by most as idiotic.

I even suspect you see it as such as well but are just a little too full of yourself to admit it. Well my friend sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and do the deed. Until then all your posts directed at me will naturally be regarded for exactly what they are, just another attempt to add to the ink cloud.

csteele,

You just keep trawling the Net for those videos. LOL

Dear onthebeach,

'Squirt'

;)

I know, I should not post this.
For the sake of OLO I should turn the other cheek.
We are streets ahead in respecting each other, it may not appear so, but visit other forums.
Some think we are different in our life here, than in the real world.
I am not, oh yes when confronted with a heedless, needless trouble maker in real life, maybe for the first time, I walk away, if I can.
Here is my view of truth,*Runner, any one who see,s me as a lefty* is a dangerous person or lacks the ability to see and hear, thoughts other than their own.
While sickened by the actions of Labor right, my home till now in the party.
I too am and have been for most of my life sickened by and the enemy of the very left.
As much an enemy as I always will be, to the Tea Party type right of the Liberal/National coalition, not all, but some live there.
Runner talks and acts like the dangerous Beast it is,extreme right users, not followers of Christ.
It must be remembered when calling Islam to account for its actions.
At least some of us thought Boston may have suffered, at the hands of equally insane right wing Christians.

'Runner talks and acts like the dangerous Beast it is,extreme right users, not followers of Christ. '
and you Belly speak like a ex corrupt union grub who plays with the truth.

O Sung Wu. Lt Colonel Potter retired thinks the USA is in very dangerous time.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yRbjSJlom4 He makes very emotional speech saying how forces within the US Govt are fighting for control.

Presently there are impeachment proceedings against Obama.Many think that Obama is close to imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship.

Runner I feel your bigotry speaks for you.
No need to continue verbal combat with one such as you.
If you are brave enough, confront your self, re read your own post history.
I left my job, rather than be ordered by a fool, not to properly service my members.
Truth may be insulted by folk like you, but it remains a meassure I except every time.
You however dare not, bigotry is unChristian.

o sung wu,

As you might agree, it is far easier to cause public offence in Australia than in the past. Political correctness and hysteria invoked by populist media have seen to that. Toy cowboy guns in shops carry luminous red muzzles and noticeable blocked ends.

Interfering busybodies are now licensed by political correctness to regularly lose their wits and phone the police if anything vaguely resembling a firearm is seen anywhere. Even the decades old field pieces outside RSLs have drawn the ire of gun control zealots. There is the lunacy of having to obtain a licence for something already set in concrete for years with the breech removed and other mechanisms welded.

School cadets used to used to carry the Lee Enfield .303 in public, to be greeted kindly by a society that recognised full well the sense of civic duty and pride of the boy carrying it. There were no violent obscenities committed by those earnest youths.

Like NZ, Australia has always experienced very low gun crime. There never was a case of anyone other than a criminal brandishing a firearm. Back then criminals discouraged one another from doing that too. It was simply not done except by stupid amateurs who it was thought ought be arrested for giving other crims a bad name and too much police attention.

The drug trade and imported gangs changed that. Thanks to Al Grassby and others.

In answer to your wondering if a fool who says he is not going to give up his arms etc would be arrested in Oz the answer is that he would be laughed at, as no doubt happened to that idiot you referred to in the US. The serial pest would be visited by the boys in blue when they got around to it and told to pull his head in. He is a joke, right enough? Continued stupidity would result in firmer but judicious action. Idiots like that are seeking publicity so why help them out would be the thinking.

'afternoon to you ARJAY...

Personally, I don't like Pres. Obama, but if you were to ask why, I'm not sure I could answer you ?

I have a good friend who's just recently 'pulled the pin' on the FBI, after years in it's employ. Previously, he was a Marine Corps Capt. with service in Vietnam. A taciturn, quiet individual who'd never openly criticised or pilloried 'the Bureau' as they call it, but when I asked him in an Email why, all he'd say was the Bureau had changed.

Inferring that the modern FBI of today, was not the Bureau that he'd joined years ago ? This bloke was the former PFI for a large chunk of the lower 48, when he was removed (compulsorily, due to age, 65) from the 'active list'. As many of them (SA's) do in theses circumstances, he took on a five year (unsworn) contract with them, finally severing his connection with them altogether, quite recently.

Again, this bloke kept his own counsel, but after me continually trying to 'tease out' his reason(s) for doing so, from the little he did admit to, the Bureau had been politically 'weakened' or 'tempered' in many ways. Much like a lion or tiger having it's claws removed ? Both outwardly remain a Lion and a Tiger ? The FBI is still considered a formidable law enforcement agency, but in his view and many of his peer group's opinion, in recent times, it has been substantially, (politically) changed !

I guess that's what happens in the US. A Republican President will ensure these agencies remain strong and effective. Where a Democratic President has other priorities, within his administration that may take a higher profile ? Anyway, what would I know ?

So anything you would reveal to me ARJAY, ol' friend, may well shock me absolutely ! But after that shock subsided, I'd not be at all surprised !

President Obama is very much a 'Dove'. Where in these troubled times, what is needed, is a 'Hawk' !

s sung wu, "..the Bureau had been politically 'weakened' or 'tempered' in many ways.."

VicPol and Christine Nixon.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

ONTHEBEACH, please be kind to this decrepit ol' man and desist from ever mentioning the dreadful 'political correctness' detritus, if you please ?

You can check with HASBEEN - Back in the late fifties, early sixties, we routinely carried our SMLE's (bolt removed) on trains and buses, in full uniform, and many an old digger would give you a wink or nod as well as some of those lovely courtly older ladies, always so elegant in their beautiful hats, they would reward you with a gentle smile, a comment of good cheer...? What on earth has happened to us ?

Years ago, I spent some time with the STP the precursor to the NSW HWP. I was attached to Albury. My patrol extended north, up the Hwy. to Tarcutta (where they made the best, biggest, and nicest hamburgers in the world). Tarcutta had a small RSL club, outside of which sat a 18 pounder field gun, a joy for every kid along the highway to sit upon, have their photographs taken.

We worked shifts so occasionally, we'd call in 'off air' at Tarcutta, for our meal break, throw on a jumper over our uniform and have a cold drink, chips and salad etc. in the back of the club. Being armed and on duty, we shared the driving, it was out of view of the public and STRICTLY confined to soft drinks or juices.

Anyhow, we got to know the Sec/Mgr. pretty well, and even way back in the 1970's he said they were insisting the RSL remove that old gun out of the view of the public, because of complaints that it was located on the highway. Apparently it did not leave the correct impression, to leave the many thousands of tourists who travelled the Hume daily, to see this huge Gun pointing out across the highway !

Initially, I thought he was having a lend of us, but no, it was true ? This was the earliest advent and my first exposure to rabid 'political correctness'.

The rest as they say is history ?

'afternoon to you CSTEELE and ONTHEBEACH...

ONTHEBEACH you are right, I forgot about the Victorian experience, an abject failure from all accounts. Yet her Dad is a terrific bloke and a good copper ?

CSTEELE...

You're correct apropos the US and many of the minorities over there fearing police. Which is counter productive for the cops there making their job that much harder.

When I was working I found, those who fear police, either me personally, or the organisation as a whole - there is a variety of 'hatred' or loathing, that more often accompanies that fear ?

With that 'hatred', comes lack of co-operation, nil communication, all manner of 'hindering', an absence of trust, and passive hostility. Also there is often even a inexplicable partisan alliance with the crooks ? Most of these people positively dislike the crooks. But they strenuously 'hate' the police with a vengeance.

Thankfully, we've not reached that, which now seems to exists in the US. Believe it or not, it's even worse in the UK ! Open hostility toward police in the major and provincial cities of the UK. Most of it is caused by race and Islamic matters.

I have a very close friend formerly in the West Midland Police College, Birmingham. He's was the faculty of law, head. Some years ago, he was OIC of IID. All his work was confined to matters of complaints against police and was totally 'race based'. He's close to retirement now thus cutting out much of his RL and LSL. He's written a book, his 3rd, (the other two on Traffic Legality) about 'race based policing models' or a similar title, for the United Kingdom.

He's said, there's a specific prohibition on him from submitting the manuscript to a publishing house, until the Home Office provides him with official clearance to do so. Apparently, on pain of prosecution ? So much for the freedom of speech eh ? Should he be of another ethnic mix, he'd no doubt receive resounding support to have the thing published ?

Again, thank you for your contribution CSTEELE.

Along with thousands of others I carried it bolt in. You cleared your rifle and the bolt want always closed at the end of that. Always clean. Always ready to rock'n'roll.

As a full bore competitor (300x to 1000x) for school and club I also carried a SMLE with 'Central' aperture sights. On the bike, in the street and on public transport. We didn't have gun bags then. I was often asked why the 'odd' sights and why the slightly different wood and the bit of barrel sticking out a bit further from the end wood (that was a No4 Mark1). Those of us in comps took some boxes of cartridges with us because the ammunition detail could be a bit slow.

We were trained and led by men. Never an accident or a wrongdoing over all of the years and over all of Australia.

It was federal government budget meanness that eventually damaged the Cadet units.

Later I carried a shotgun and a carry bag of heavy 12G boxes for skeet and clays, on public transport to link to my lift to the range. Thousands did the same and never a hint of a problem.

Dear o sung wu,

I'm afraid the FBI haven't been that well regarded by our own Fed's. My brother did his 20 with them and whenever the topic of the FBI was raised with he or his colleges the 'Famous But Incompetent' tag was invariably used.

I had always put it down to inter-service rivalry until 9/11 when some serious shortcomings and dare I say massive incompetence were revealed for all to see. I suspect your friend may well have despaired about the actions of the high command.

As to disrespect toward police in the UK if this clip is anything to go by you have a point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLapEePIOeo

However I'm not sure how ethnic he is. Sound like a typical Geordie prat. It serves to remind me that I could never be a policeman, I think I would be reaching for this bloke's throat.

But you don't have to look far to see disrespect. You could just saunter over to Hasbeen's threat where you will find it in spades;
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5749&page=0

On to Smellys, mine had the flip up ranging rear sight. Loved that rifle. Had to leave it behind when the family moved overseas. I enjoyed tricking my friends with the little half cock on the bolt that froze the weapon. I use to think I was pretty quick getting through a mag on target until a friend of my father's put me back in my box.

Hi ONTHEBEACH & CSTEELE...

Memories sweet memories... Fantastic ! Indeed the Central was probably the pick of the bunch with aperture sights. Parker Hale and Rawson were good. As a member of Hurstville VDC at ANZAC Range, Liverpool (all housing now) I took up the sport in '57 and purchased my first SMLE, No l Mk 3 for the princely amount of three quid, from the MDRCU via the Army, Brand new, still in it's original packing grease, ex Lithgow SAF.

Then, as was the practice, one wandered down the road to this little Shed/Shack (adjacent to 800 yard mound) where the legendary Percy Pavey did his magic. Whereupon I handed it over, together with the heavy barrel and my new Parker Hale Sight (independently purchased), and returned for it about 6 or 8 weeks later. Parting with about 14 to 16 quid for my trouble.

He fitted the heavy barrel (Ferlach), semi-floated of course, fitted my first Parker Hale, (the cheapest) and generally tidied up the rifle in readiness for my first outing with it. Yes indeed, CSTEELE the 'half cock' position with the bolt, was an ancillary safety measure.

You may remember, ONTHEBEACH & CSTEELE, the competition involved; two 'sighters', followed by ten 'business', on your first 'down'. Then, on your second 'down' you repeated the first sequence of, 2 x sighters, followed by 10 x business. At the conclusion you added both 'downs' together, minus the four 'sighters' and that was your raw score. With a 'possible' of 100 points ! Naturally, a 'possible' was what everyone 'aimed for' (sorry for the pun).

On the Sunday morning, I'd eagerly check the results in the paper, to see if my name appeared under the heading of Hurstville VDC. When it did, the whole neighbourhood was told about it !

We had the famous 'Queens Prize' winner, James Sweet visit our club on many occasions. He authored 'the' accepted text on big bore, 'Competitive Rifle Shooting' a terrific little book.

Today, I'd be accused of being a 'gun nut I suppose ? I dunno gentlemen, I really don't ?