Thanx for the enthusiastic interaction guys... (Peppy_and_Shorbe) I need to further address your points.

1/ Shorbe. I take you disagreement on board, but I feel that there is a difference between a 'cumulative' impact of specific technologies and the immediate outcome of a major pivotal battle which decides the future of the world, as Tours/Poitiers certainly was. (along with Vienna) We can agree to differ on this point, I think both of us have made our case there.

2/ Peppy, I quite agree with you about Anzac day, I'm not suggesting it is a celebration of a particular battle or victory, as clearly it was simply a small part of a bigger war picture, and the Turks just happened to be the ones on the other end of that strategic stick at the time.

Clearly, the fact of our defeat at Galipoli demonstrated that the ultimate outcome of the War did not depend in a victory there. We made up for that defeat in the sand dunes and deserts of Palestine against the same enemy but more in charge of tactics and resources, so our 'pride' or self esteem is in tact.

The only point I'm really making about Anzac day is that we can remember something which is offensive (in my view) to some elements of our society, in particular Salafist and Wahabist Muslims, who would 'explode' at the idea of 'Muslim lands' being invaded by 'infidels'.

Yet.... we still celebrate that event, not as a victory or a particular battle as you rightly point out, but for the other reasons you also mentioned.

So, at the risk of seeming repetitious, I again emphasise that 'some people might be offended' is NEVER a reason not to celebrate those things which are precious to our culture and history. That's pretty much the whole thing here.
The PC and MC brigade are always telling us we must be careful not to intrude or offend..... right? Well... I say, if not offending means the supression of truth or facts which are crucial to our self understanding, then the price is too high.

Hi there...
All this sacrifice and bravery people go on about, 'round each ANZAC Day, is an absolute nonsense. It's the sort of 'dribble', the politicians and the rest of their parasitic cohorts (and the bloody media too) feeds us on! Look at the shameful stunt Rudd and company, and some morning TV show, were going to stage at the Dawn Service, Long Tan.

As far as I'm concerned, pollies of BOTH persuasions should 'slink' away to their respective sewers, and give the Veterans at least 24 hours of quiet reprive, from hearing their lying, morally corrupt utterings !

To all you vets out there...Remember how our glorious Australian stevedore unions would NOT load our mail or other necessities on board the 'MV Japarit' (sorry, I've forgotten how to spell it), because they were against the Vietnam War ! So these 'heroes' took it out on the Vets !! Not the pollies who sent them there.

Marching on ANZAC Day, should be confined exclusively, to the Veteran community only, and not turned into some popular pageant for disaffected wannabes.

sungwu.

I'm still not sure that I understand what Boazy's trying to say. He seems to be trying to cite an instance where the EVIL FORCES OF POLITICALLY CORRECT MULTICULTURALISM don't actually interfere with a culturally central Australian ritual, somehow as an example of why we should be on the lookout for the INSIDIOUS forces of MULTICULTURALISM that will otherwise DESTROY OUR SOCIETY.

Or something like that. I reckon he's painted himself into a corner, and his wriggling in trying to extricate himself is like a textual Jackson Pollock - albeit without the aesthetic redemption :)

At least it's mildly amusing to watch.