anzac day would be more admirable if it celebrated the brave defense of bondi against the invading turkish army. as it is, one gets the idea shooting your way ashore in someone else's country is admirable. and habitual, ozzies are continually having to defend themselves in foreign climes.

you can make a case for pressing up against america's bum, or englands bum, or maybe china's bum (theirs is the coming bum of our time) out of terror at the big world out there. but why aren't the kiwis scared? is there something missing from ozzie character?

TRTL part of my point is that often it is key individuals who are offended by this or that thing, and they then extrapolate 'their' offense onto the whole event in the name of those they feel are offended.
Clover Moore her approach to Christmas is a classic example.
Then there are others who don't want Christmas carols in schools, and so it goes on.

You are right on with the MC and PC mob being my real target in this thread. I'm seeking to illustrate how empty is the concept of 'PC' and how dangerous it is to use the idea to overide an established culture.

I also point to certain religious elements as being equally dangerous, because of the ideas at the heart of their faith. Just as one would be worthy of institutionalized for putting European Carp in a trout stream, because of how quickly they breed and the fact that they consume baby trout, (but hey... they are nice fish in themselves right?).

Lack of national identity makes us putty in the hands of those with a strong sense of ethnic or religious identity.
National identity comes from knowing our place in history and appreciating the lives laid down to give us that freedom.

I have no drama with remembering Anzac day and the fact that we 'invaded' another country. They did their share of invading and while we were invading them, they were slaughtering uncountable thousands of innocent,virtually defenseless Armenians.

Our invasion of Turkey was legitimate because it was in the context of a war where they were our enemies and only a matter of time and opportunity for them to either invade us, or assist those who would.

So, yes, I think it's fair :)

BD, "I also point to certain religious elements as being equally dangerous, because of the ideas at the heart of their faith. " - mostly agree but I think the problem is more about how individuals treat their faith rather than what their faith is about.

Both your own faith and your favourite target have followers of good character and followers who polute the gene pool. Both have had followers who express their faith through good works and followers who express it by taking violence to others. Both have had terrorists in their ranks. Both have had those who practice tollerance and those who believe their own beliefs should stop others practicing their own.

There is something sick about the idea of the god that lies at the heart of monothiestic religions but the real problem is what some of you choose to do with your beliefs.

R0bert

YOu can honour someones fighting for their country, regardless of particular reasons, even though ours were pretty good at the time.
Also why are you grouping the Japanese in there, i think your confusing world war 1 with world war 2.
Its politically incorrect to treat different nationalities differently like you are, if the world is populated by one race of humans, then ANZAC day is simply about celebrating the fighting force from these two nations.

Plus we were invading the Ottoman empire werent we? Not the turks, i dont think you can invade an ethnic group, at least not in any PG way......

BOAZ: It wasn't Charlemagne who won the Battle of Poitiers (a.k.a. Battle of Tours), it was his grandfather, Charles "The Hammer" Martel.

I'd be all for celebrating both Martel and Sobieski, although I'd also be all for celebrating a whole bunch of scientists, musical composers, etc.

Personally, I don't really get the whole Anzac Day thing. I know, how un-Australian of me. Why celebrate the fact that we lost a campaign we shouldn't have been involved in in the first place (thanks to that cretin, Churchill)? Why celebrate that we were suckers and gun-fodder for the Poms?

Country Gal: You're completely wrong about the importance of "that battle". It's like picking any major turning point in world history, such as the Spanish Armada, or the Battle of Stalingrad and saying things would have turned out the same if the outcomes had been different. How absurd.

In the case of Tours/Poitiers, the Franks were the only major Western European power. Their loss would have meant a Muslim Europe. Likewise, Vienna (and Sobieski) was the only thing between the Ottomans and a very fragmented central Europe/Holy Roman Empire. A loss at Vienna would have certainly meant the entrenchment of Islam deep into Europe, and probably would have completely stalled the Age of Enlightenment and the subsequent dominance of Western civilisation.

BOAZ may be trying to conflate two things, but you need to read some history.

Hi to all you good people...

In my humble view ANZAC day should be allowed to quietly 'fade away'!
The day is essentially redundant. It (ANZAC Day) has been hijacked by the Media; Politicians; pretenders; posers; and Kids.

Initially, the day was set aside for both, RETURNED men and women to march and generally gather to commemorate the memory of those who did not return from active duty in a WAR ZONE. Either KIA or died of war caused wounds or disease. Now, every Tom, Dick, or Harry with only a minuscule connection to a legitimate veteran, wears that veterans 'gongs' and marches on the day !

Would you believe I heard one such bloke say, when asked why he marched..." I like all the applause and cheers I get, as I march by..." ? A real 'poser' and 'pretender' I believe - He didn't even leave the bloody Country !!

While I'm at it...I believe the RSL is now morally corrupt. Instead of looking after the more urgent needs and affairs of real, deserving veterans, they're more interested in attempting to sway and lobby governments in issues that are not really within their aegis. That's not their role. As I stated herein, they should direct ALL their energies looking after the welfare of veterans.

In times past, the RSL was a superb organisation. With many dedicated volunteers helping and generally aiding needy veterans to adjust, after returning home to Australia.

As I said earlier - let ANZAC Day simply 'fade away'. That would be the best way to honour our fallen in my opinion. I'll not march again...ever.

sungwu.