Arjay,

"...yet developing countries can please themselves."

If India is an example, then you should be aware that Western multi-nationals have gone gang-busters there - because of lax environmental standards - because the World Bank, the IMF and the WTO tie development loans to structural adjustments, and peasants have been encouraged to go into debt, to degrade soils and deplete groundwater.

It's not the Greenies and the Lefties encouraging that.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/india_water.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102944731

And as for China...well....

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=80152

The Greenies and the Lefties didn't promote that either. All the examples above are what happens when countries "don't" apply environmental controls.

WmTrevor à la ”Woof! Woof! look at this old bone I’ve dug up”(wagging his tail anticipating a pat on the head) offers : <<his is how the 'execution' of Agenda 21 is implemented in Australia…In other words… be afraid, be very afraid>>

No. What you have found Trevor is the publicity blurb.
In the end it does not even require an Agenda 21.

All that is required is a continuation of the mentality that says all the woes of the world are due to AGW .And every time anyone anywhere experiences a flood, fire, famine or a bout of diarrhoea we (the developed world) are responsible and should pay all their bills –and more --"much, much more". And right now at the latest Potlash in Doha they (the underdeveloped world aided and egged on by Poirot's "Greenies and lefties") are pushing to establish a mega reparation fund to do just that.

And as for Poirot:

To understand where she and her "Greenies and Lefties" are coming from, and where they want to take us you need to understand a few basics:
1) In Poirot’s world view the Green Revolution was a giant conspiracy designed to impoverish the underdeveloped world. The scientific *CONSENSUS* has it that it drew a lot of people out of poverty --but Poirot who is usually big on scientific CONSENSUS (when it suits!)– sees it as a giant conspiracy.
2) In Poirot’s world view every time south Asian farmers draw too much water from the aquifer. It aint the fault of the farmers who had ten kids each and needed to push things to the limit to make ends meet.And it aint the fault of their govt --which heads one of the BRIC group of fastest developing countries and rules over a rich list that dwarfs Australia’s our middle class--and which has chosen to put its money into new aircraft carriers rather than farm aid, it’s the West whose is at fault.
3) Then we have the AGW conundrum:
If Oz has a factory producing green house gases it is BAD
If Oz implements tough carbon laws/taxes and the factory moves off shore to China where laws are not so stringent we are still BAD –‘cause we made them do it
And don’t even think about us boycotting polluting nations because Poirot and her "Greenies and Lefties" other pet theory is that we killed or maimed thousands of Iraq children with such sanctions –so that is also BAD.

We can't win –‘cause we're NOT meant to!

SPQR,

You're a naughty boy for constructing your strawmen so blatantly.

I am not accusing multi-nationals of "impoverishing" the underdeveloped world. I'm saying that their mandate was to extract as much profit as they could from purveying their wares. I'm also saying that organisations like the World Bank, the IMF and the WTO are doormen for Multi-nationals who first make arrangements with third world governments which take full advantage of lax environmental laws. For instance, after farmers have gone into massive debt to buy fertilizer, seed and pumps, the Indian government provided free electricity so that the pumps could run 24/7...all very well you say, except this practice leads to water depletion, and loss of topsoil and nutrient (of course the farmers only have to trot off and purchase more nutrient from the multi-national to fix that :)Apart from massive soil degradation and groundwater depletion there have been over 200,000 farmer suicides from debt in India.
The bottom line is that this style of farming is "unsustainable".

We don't have to move factories to China to be partially responsible for China's pollution. Look around your house and try to find something "not" made in China.

Btw, there was a factory producing greenhouse gases only the other week in eastern China It just so happened that it caught fire on the worst day for smog in that province - and no-one noticed it was burning for hours because the air quality was that BAD

Killing and maiming thousands in Iraq (whether by sanctions or bombs) was BAD.

Poirot,
<<You're a naughty boy for constructing your strawmen so blatantly>>.
Thems aint strawman –besides it should be strawPERSONS! --thems are unpalatable facts.

<< The bottom line is that this style of farming is "unsustainable">>
NO. The bottom line is that with fewer farmers it might well be sustainable.
Just as with Egypt. Ancient Egypt with a population of up to 3-5 million was a immensely wealthy – the breadbasket of the Mediterranean, but with todays population of 82.5 million it’s a basket case.

One of the downsides of the Green Revolution is that it oversaw a huge increase in population which ate up many of the gains.

<<We don't have to move factories to China to be partially responsible for China's pollution. Look around your house and try to find something "not" made in China>>
At the behest of your Greeny and Lefty mates we’ve exempted China from Kyoto (remember?) so we can’t do much on that front!
And we can’t boycott them either, on account of what (you say) happen to Iraq when we boycotted it!

So I guess it's back to your favourite solution –world govt and a redistribution of wealth, ay?
And before you agree -- please bear in mind an affirmative answer will mean sharing your tomato patch with 600 Bangladeshi farmers!

Poirot - “We don't have to move factories to China to be partially responsible for China's pollution. Look around your house
and try to find something "not" made in China.”

This cheap labour in China is a direct result of their horrendous overpopulation which they have
now managed to stabilise, but it is still horrendous. It is in fact the ridiculous overpopulation, lack
Of free contraception mandated by governments of these countries that allows capitalism to
Expand and grow. Note that Western Nations themselves have culled their populations and this
would have put a brake and a limit on consumption of goods
but the overpopulated countries are providing our billionaires and government with huge overflows of people coming here and that
allows Capitalism to thrive. If you want to stop Capitalism and bring about conservation then Stop feeding the beast.

And what is it that feeds the beast?

Consumers, billions in India,China The Middle East etc. By sheer weight of numbers these people drive billions more cars
and consume billions of tonnes more of everything plus keep spreading over the land until there is standing room only
for a lot of animal species including the elephant and the tiger.

Cull big populations and you’ll fix most conservation problems and Capitalism(consumerism)
Capitalism is like prostitution there would be no prostitution if there were no customers.