579m Without means testing come September 9th 2034 one James Packer aged 67 can apply for an old age pension of $712 per fortnight as a single or $1073.40 with spouse. The pension will still be at 2013 levels as there are now 22,000,000 old age pensioners in Australia. By the way bread is on special that week at the Wolliecole store the only supermarket in Oz, at 50 bucks a loaf.

579, I doubt anything short of serious tax reform can save our situation, however, if the incentive was there to pay taxes, many would choose to do so as opposed to cheating taxes.

You see each time an additional expense is placed on smaller employers, many simply take cash for themselves, which when you think about it is only fair, as to invest an extra dollar, one should be entitled for one for themselves, don't you think, because after all, many know that if they pay their correct amount of taxes, they won't be any better off at the end of the day.

The trouble is that the tax department and governments don't see it this way, as our collective expediture has outgrown our collective tax revenue stream and that disparity is only getting worse.

Rechtub, this is a rebutting of your thoughts not you OK?
RObert may have held other views it is for him to say.
But in my thread, and my posts here, my view is fixed.
I see too much waste, and want it stopped.
I see better ways to get something back from most dole payments.
I want to harness the costs of Social Security, to see more for the true needy, by cuts not expansions to our total spend on welfare.
I think unreservedly welfare was never about expanding to give the well off a reward.
In fact, without doubt, think as unlikely as it sounds, demands to pay every one a pension, is SOCIALISM.
Lets look at Greece, folk just will not pay taxes.
They hit the stop work and pension for life button, in their 50,s!
We, all of us, must confront our understanding *has to be questioned*
If we want to give more to those who do not need it and fail to see the costs to our economy.

Belly, while I don't completely disagree with your view, just remember, a portion of our taxes paid was to be put aside for our retirement.

It would have to be the greatest rip off of all times, and to think that not only do the rich (and I am not one) go without so much along the way, by way of increased medical bills, no discounts for raising their families etc, etc, but they then get told, sorry, you have done too well, so we need to take YOUR PENSION MONEY and give it to someone, or something, else.

All this despite the fact that high income earners have not only supported about 42% of the entire work force, but they have also paid ALL THE BILLS along the way, as the 42% 'ers have claimed more back from the system than they have contributed along the way.

But hey, let's not only offer them (the 42%'ers) full time support along the way, but let's reward them should they come up short in the end, at the expense of the high income earner.

I don't know of any other country where one can manipulate the system to such an extent, whereby not only do they NEVER EVER WORK but they also manage to raise multiple kids along the way, many of which follow the leader in the end.

And guess what, they get a pension for their NON EFFORT.

It is little wonder they arrive in droves here, as we are such a bunch of soft cocks.

Now as for welfare waste, we could bring it to it's knees tomorrow, by way of a debit card system (NO, NOT FOOD STAMPS. GET IT!) but hey, many, including yourself see that as too harsh.

If we want contribution testing for welfare than we must contribution test everything else also. Look at the disparities of parliamentarian's contribution to Super & those of the rest of us. Let alone the access to Super. The waste is far greater on the side of the Public Servants than those single mothers etc. even though that needs to be curbed.
Let's look at the cause of all this waste. It's things like the baby bonus & over-generous benefits for public Servants, consultants to Government, Academia, the Arts etc etc.
Last but definitely not least it's Labor Governments although the Liberals are doing their utmost to be just as incompetent. It's a race for idiots sponsored by morons.

If you want more money in the bin, nationalize iron ore mining. 80% of profits from iron ore goes overseas.
Butch is talking like Abbott he wants to give welfare to the uppercrust.
To give to the rich you must take from the poor.
Tax does need reforming so the well to do pay their comparative tax, without hiding behind tax free, and not being paid wages.
Low paid jobs demand low tax, high paid jobs demand high taxes.
And especially when the high paid, are employing the low paid jobs.