Belly, firstly, I don't dislike you at all.

Now as for the pension, or more so, who gets it and who doesn't, just name one other thing in life where we get penalized for trying too hard.

Take a business. Now in any normal circumstance, ome would think you should be rewarded for creating lots of jobs, but no, not here, as businesses that employ too many get taxed extra in the form of pay role tax. Utterly absurd if you ask me.

The plain fact of the matter is that welfare, in all forms is simply too larger drain on the public purse and sooner or latter, most likely latter I am afraid, the powers to be are going to realize that.

There has been much talk about the dole, or more so, the fact that it is only $35 a day.

Yet, we have many UNDEREMPLOYED out there, going off to work for less than $100 per day.

At some point these poor soles will simply oppt to say in bed, esspecially if they raise the dole by $50 a week.

No work related expenses, no time sceduals.

This is a bit off topic I guess, but it's still very worrying.

But I do agree that everyone who retires should receive a pension, full stop.

You get rewarded for trying hard by your personal satisfaction, that does not relate to monetary terms as a reward.
Butch, first you wanted to pay peanuts because someone was doing an unskilled job. Now you want to cut pensions, Lead by example, and do that.
Many underemployed want to be underemployed, we have people working one or two hours a week and do not want any more. The statistics are on the govt; site.
That is how employed or unemployed are calculated around the world.
People without money cannot support the economy, so you cut your own throat.
You are jumping at shadows, everything will be fine.

"But I do agree that everyone who retires should receive a pension, full stop." If my memory serves me correct for a brief period in Australia's history we did experiment with paying everyone (no means test, Belly help me out on this) over 70 a pension. there was an outcry when Menzies applied for and was granted an old age pension on top of his other benefits. The government soon dropped the scheme.
I agreed with the compulsory superannuation scheme when it was introduced, unfortunately it was allowed to fall into the private hands who through fees and charges have made themselves the big winners and at the same time made supa for some ineffective. This particularly applies to the low paid and those that changed employers often.

Paul, super is not effected by changing jobs, unless of cause there is an out of work period.

However, I agree with you on who gets rich out of super, and it's most certainly not the contributor.

I always felt that super should have been government controlled, with an absolute guarantee, as this would have helped keep the sharks at bay.

As for a pension for all, there is no way any former government emplyee should receive benefits, plus a pension, that's just plain dumb.

579, take a pill mate, as nowhere have I suggested a cut in pensions.

You really should read what I post, rather than simply attack me with a loaded gun all the times.

The reality is that in this society, those who contribute the most, are rewarded the least and that in it's self is disgraceful in my opinion.

Furthermore, our system is set up to support those who waste everything, yet punish those who save.

Where is the incentive in that?

As I say, it is little wonder many people cheat, or at the very least, minimize taxes in This country.

Surely a reward system would be better than a punishing system. In fact, if high income earners were rewarded for their efforts, ie, receive a portion of their taxes back in retirement, chances are our tax credits would rise, as cheating and minimizing taxes often leaves them sleeping with one eye open, not to mention the associated costs, such as structures and management of same.

rehctub, you and I agreeing on something, how long is this going to last? "super is not effected by changing jobs" yes they have changed the laws so a person can port their supea provider from one employer to another theses day. I helped a mate recently combine 5 accounts he had, all set up by different employers over the years into one account. Mate was single no dependents yet these small accounts had life insurance attached which he didn't need fees had been paid from each, they were becoming worthless with a $1,000 here $2,000 there. He may as well had the money and pissed it up they were never going to provide for his old age beyond a week or two. In fact many small supa accounts have become 'lost' people have just forgot about them. Not what compulsory supa should be about.
At one time the ideal of old age pension was to keep the single rate at no less than 25% of average wages. 25% was once the objective but governments have found that difficult to achieve. Changes to retirement age etc. At one time the average man retired at 65 lived to 72 and got a pension for 7 years, not uncommon for men to live well beyond 80 and women even longer, more and more oldies, more pension. One group of welfare recipients society don't like to attack as unworthy is old age pensioners.
Its my understand that ALL INCOME TAX = ALL WELFARE PAYMENTS in Australia today, other taxes and borrowings pays for everything else. For me that is a dangerous situation to be getting into. I support a welfare system that supports those that that need to be helped, no question about that, but I don't support middle class welfare, I don't support non means tested bonuses etc, in many cases government payments are not welfare but a gift (to win votes).

Butch do you drink beer? If so what kind do you like, we might have something else in common. I drink 'black old'. A 'Watermelon' who don't like "Chardy".

Butch. Pensions and means testing, is a good system. We do not need a system where for some reason means testing is not relevant.
So seeing you are not advocating cutting pensions to service pensions to people who do not need a pension. How do you propose paying for your master plan.
The eligibility age is being raised, as people are living longer and more people are coming into retirement age.
Unless you can put some concrete formulas up to support your proposal, it is just rubbish talk.