AJ Philips,

Thanks for the support but you can see by sonofgloin’s latest post he is impervious to logic.

David

OzSpen,

Firstly, most atheists had never heard of Anthony Flew until it was touted he had changed his mind. Anthony Flew did not believe in a personal god or even the Christian god but came down on the side of a kind of deism. But there is more to this story than meets the eye.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/2481/the_death_of_another_deathbed_conversion/

No matter what Flew thought about the existence of a force in nature, he had no more information than you or I. In fact, he had less as articles about him demonstrate unless you read from some Christian websites. Seek out Richard Carrier who had correspondence with Flew. Here’s an example:

http://www.infidels.org/kiosk/article369.html

But besides all this pointless bickering I have posed you a question which I expect you to answer.

I’ll elaborate on it and ask all religious people who have been following this conversation to answer it as well.

So here we go.
_______________________________________________

I am very happy with my life and live it similarly to most reasonable people in the community.

Let us assume for a moment that Jesus is God, he does exist and all the other gods are false.

Why should I follow anything he says?

David

Sonofgloin, No one will ever be able to say who or what started our universe.

Most Christians today base their beliefs on the bible, but how do they know that this is a truthful book and not just a good set of stories?

Muslims believe their Koran has the true story, and many Chinese think Confucious has all the answers.

Don't you agree that there is just too many unanswered questions to really have any truth that a God really exists at all?
Faith is really the only reason people believe...not truth.

Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc “How about we alter the sentence slightly”

Will you be setting up the Life Only Exists On Earth Foundation tomorrow? No?
Then don't introduce stupid straw men.

The fact many people can “experience” contact with aliens doesn't “prove” they exist, but neither can you claim “no aliens exist” because of the personal nature of the reports, just as you can't claim “no gods exist” for the same reason.

You can choose to ignore the reports of supernatural or alien experiences, but that doesn't mean they are baseless, or that you can claim to know with certainty that there are no such things.

“If the purported miracles and wonders were real and had actually happened, contemporary historians would have recorded them.”

Why are only “historians” relevant? How many “historians” even existed 2000 years ago?

Maybe many people didn't report these “miracles” because in those days, such events weren't considered so odd.
Magicians, seers, prophets were all over the place.

The only people Jesus would be notable to were the certain crowd of people he addressed, claiming to be *their* Messiah. Why would anyone else care to notice this?
Other peoples had their own mystics, magicians, prophets and priests. Who's this Jeshua dude to them?

“Josephus was not alive at the time of Jesus and wrote ‘Antiquities’ half a dozen decades later. He worked on hearsay.”

Yeah, most historians do write about history *after* it's already happened. Weird, eh?
Do you only consider *contemporary* references to Adolf Hitler reputable? No books written after that fact are relevant?

“Anyone who can use Google can find information”

Oh, so *you* don't need to cite references. But everyone else does.

“Are you ready? ‘There is probably no god’. That’s it…period.”

Ah, no. That's the view of *agnostics*.

“Let us assume for a moment that Jesus is God, he does exist and all the other gods are false.
Why should I follow anything he says?”

Um, because you're “assuming he's God”. How did you get chosen as spokesperson?

Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc,
If you are the authorized spokesperson for this organisation then you are an insult to intelligence and history to call it a myth. You are in the same league as holocaust deniers of events 70 years ago of which we do have contempoary records.

It is evident you lack knowledge of historical facts that Christianity has tradition linked to persons of the first century. I suppose you do not believe the stories and exploits of Julius Caesar because no contemporary records of him exist today. No you are selective in your acceptance of fact; beside Julius has no devoted followers who consider him a god today, as the first century Roman’s believed.

Shockadelic,

There is life on earth so there is the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe. There is no supernatural sphere anywhere known. What is your point if you have one?

People can claim they have had alien or supernatural experience. There is no reason anyone else should accept the claim without evidence.

This site gives an idea about first century historians: http://ed5015.tripod.com/BHistoriansAndJesus129.html

“The other historians of that time, Arrian, Lucius Seneca (4 BC - 65 AD) Dion Pruseus, Pliny the Elder, Pater Calus, Suetonius, Juvenal, Theon of Smyran, Martial, Phlegon, Persius, Pompon Mela, Plutarch, Quintus Curtius, Lucian, Apollonius, Pausanias, Valerius Flaccus, Quintilian, Forus Lucius, Lucanus, Phaedrus, Epictetus, Damis, Silius Italicus, Alulus Geuius, Statius, Ptolemy, Columella, Diochry Sostom, Hermogones, Lysias, Valerius Maxiimus, Cornelius, Titus Livius, Cluvius Rufus, Publius Petronius (the Roman consul) who lived in Jerusalem. All these heard nothing, not a word was written about J.C.”

Enough fish and bread to feed a multitude, water into wine, raising the dead, helping fisherpersons to catch heaps, curing the blind and lame, getting demons to leave pigs (really?) and finally coming back to life. The spoken word was the ancient internet and these things would have spread like wildfire if they happened.

Other magicians could not do those things. Unless you’re suggesting they did.

Actually, Hitler was written about as it was happening or very shortly after. Imagine the stories if we waited 50 or a hundred years before writing anything but relied on word of mouth.

I expect people to know the arguments if they wish to discuss them. Then, that material can be evaluated by both sides. Pushing a one sided story without proper investigation is no way to draw conclusions. The information is available to all.

If you can’t follow the agnostic argument which has been explained umpteen times, I’m not going to do it again.

“Um, because you're “assuming he's God”. How did you get chosen as spokesperson?”

This sentence doesn’t make sense. Can you rephrase it so it does thanks?

And, and it’s a big ‘and’, you did not answer the question.

David

Josephus,

“If you are the authorized spokesperson for this organisation then you are an insult to intelligence and history to call it a myth. You are in the same league as holocaust deniers of events 70 years ago of which we do have contempoary records.”

It would be a better idea if you didn't use stupid phrases like "an insult to intelligence and history" without knowing what you are talking about. The divinity of Jesus is a myth (extraordinary story without evidence) which is believed by Christians. The existence of a character called Jesus has acceptance, but not universal acceptance, by historical scholars. Is there some word or phrase you do not understand here. If so, I will explain again if you ask politely.

“It is evident you lack knowledge of historical facts that Christianity has tradition linked to persons of the first century. I suppose you do not believe the stories and exploits of Julius Caesar because no contemporary records of him exist today. No you are selective in your acceptance of fact; beside Julius has no devoted followers who consider him a god today, as the first century Roman’s believed.”

Tradition is not proof otherwise you would believe that Mohammed rode a horse to heaven accompanied by the angel Gabriel and spoke with Allah. Do you believe that?

Historians are unanimous in accepting Julius Caesar existed.

If one follower accepted Jesus was God, that person would be locked up. Because lots of people believe it they are not. People believe many things. That does not make them true.

Would you do me a favour and humour me and answer the question thanks.

David