Landrights4all,
Your arguement does not stand up. If the illegals were desperate they would seek refuge in the first place available.

There are many places that are signatories to the Refugee convention, that are far closer than Aus.

Maybe I have had more life experience than you and understand peoples motives better.

They buy their way to Indonesia by bribary and buying false papers. It is greed alone that they seek to get to Aus. Any young man of decency would not leave his family in peril, while he scooted off to lay about in the tropical sun.

Other young men are staying in their home country and helping to rebuild it. The illegals are cowards that come here to hide.

Banjo, I'm not arguing about where people come from or how, but simply about what we are going to do with the inevitable increase in refugee numbers.

As you said, we can't maintain our borders and our current system can't provide enough for all. To provide for all we need a system that is sustainable and we need to start developing that now.

The poor are begging for an opportunity and, as the rich won't abandon consumerism, the poor are perfectly placed to help us develop something new. I have described what this could look like in NTW link.

landrights4all - Quote "The poor are begging for an opportunity" If by the poor you mean refugees.
1) the majority do not speak any English therefore they can not be given any jobs because if they have an accident all they say is "I could not read the sign" the Government will then sue the employer.

2)of 8,000 plus refugees accepted under the humanitarian program 85% were still on welfare after being here 5 years (all we need is a few thousand more of these)

3) approx 95% on most boats are men if accepted they will then be allowed to bring the family they deserted so 1 refugee could turn out to be 5 or more.
so last few months 95% of 7500 = 7125 x 5 = potentially 35625 (welcome to the new housing crisis for Australians) not 1 homeless refugee.

Quote "inevitable increase in refugee numbers" It is only inevitable under this incompetent government and the golden welcome mat they put out. Pull the navy back let Indonesia do there own work it is there rescue zone we end up picking them up from.
Tell Indonesia for every boat we will cut foreign aid by $12 million dollars
Indonesia can stop most of them if they want to but do not. They can stop them getting into Indonesia in the first place but they do not want to. Same goes for Malaysia.

landrights4all,

There were virtually no illegal boat arrivals before Labor. This can be turned around, starting with turning the boats back to Indonesia. This can be done legally and safely.

The smugglers simply don't believe that Labor has the stones to do anything but make ineffective gestures.

as the rich won't abandon consumerism,
Landrights4all,
that's an open-ended statement in itself for even the poorest of countries have very rich. Many of their people become refugees because of their rich. In our society we have poor also but they don't go to other countries. Why not ? Because other countries' Governments wouldn't have have them for a minute longer than it takes to either thow them into jail or send them packing. The reason why so many come here is because our Government actually advertises how much they can expect to get paid for nothing once they arrive here. It's got zilch to do with consumerism or us not wanting to abandon our way of life. The Australian Government gives hundreds of millions of aid to Countries which have more Billionaires than we have unemployed. Go figure.

Alexander Dugin and his "The Fourth Political Theory" thinly veiled fascism.Like Hitler called for a return of German power Dugin calls for a return of Russian power.
landrights4all this may be the kiss of death for what you say but I agree with your concept.
Posted by landrights4all, Monday, 26 November 2012 9:35:19 AM

"I do envisage what a balanced population and living standard could look like - it would be able to avoid war and to foster sustainable development. But it would require that the poor have an alternative to the consumer society for food and shelter - the NTW model I referred you to.
regarding immigration , it will soon enough become a matter of what we must do. As with the environment, nature will not be denied - desperate people will just become more desperate, so it would be best if we learn how to co operate now."

I have been appalled by the handling of the asylum seeker issue by all 3 Labor, Coalition and my own party The Greens. The Greens taking the moral high ground whilst innocent people drowned at sea was wrong. I was particularly discussed by Abbotts blatant use of peoples lives to score political points as did Labor to a lesser degree. I would have thought our leaders could have reached a bipartisan agreement and saved lives, unfortunately it was not the case.