Dear Pericles,

<<The fallacy here is that when you do experience an orgasm, the chances are that you would recognize it from the description that you had previously heard - or subsequently learned, when you ask "what on earth was that?">>

If you practice religion long enough you will recognise the result from the description of the sages. The more you practice the more often you will say "Aha, so that's what they meant!". You can then communicate about it with others who are on the path (not necessarily of your own religious order or organisation, if you even belong to any).

<<The only possible way to interpret your approach is that all the religions that we presently regard as religions, are no such thing>>

Most "religions", I believe, started as a religious initiative, but then deteriorated over time, some less some more - and along with that also deteriorated the understanding of the world about what religion is.

<<By dismissing the entire Catholic church as being unworthy of the description "religious", you effectively deny the crimes committed by its members.>>

I don't consider the entire Catholic church as either religious or irreligious, but rather as a mixed bag.

I have no clue why by that I would be denying the crimes of its members: There is no doubt that the Catholic church exists, regardless of its degree of religiosity, nor is there a doubt that some of its members committed crimes.

<<Which is, I think, why Belly gets a little cross with you.>>

That would be a bit strange: suppose the Catholic church is not a religion - would that entitle it to molest children? I think not!

Y thanks, having been elevated to God it is my view I am the only one.
My followers will take the ten commandments as a rule.
Then make up their own.
But these I say are not to be broken, all humanity is one.
And equal, all must respect each other.
Any one practicing the now dead term, racism will be cast out.
All who molest children, any sex or social standing shall be de sexed , just before burning at the stake.
How am I going my Child?
Bit cruel? not so every God has a blood fixation.

Sadly, that won't work either, Yuyutsu.

>>If you practice religion long enough you will recognise the result from the description of the sages<<

"Recognizing the result" would surely be a self-fulfilling prophecy, given that your only working definition is "the process of coming closer to God". I could independently determine that the process of coming closer to God was to sacrifice a virgin at the high altar on midsummer's eve. If the result was a good harvest, I wouldn't have much of a job convincing gullible folk that this was a result they should recognize. I'd become a sage, in fact.

>>You can then communicate about it with others who are on the path<<

Again with the self-fulfilling prophecy. You would be uniquely able to determine "the path", n'est-ce pas. Good luck with that harvest.

>>I don't consider the entire Catholic church as either religious or irreligious, but rather as a mixed bag.<<

With respect, that is rather ducking the issue. Catholicism is a religion. Look it up.

People can be either religious or irreligious, of course (by anyone's definition, not merely yours), but that does not detract from the fact that the "mother church" is a branch of the Christian faith... in other words, a religion.

>>I have no clue why by that I would be denying the crimes of its members<<

Once again, you elide religion and religious. The Catholic religion is responsible for creating an environment in which its members were allowed to transgress, and to be "forgiven". This is the part that you appear to deny, mainly by swapping between your definitions of "religion" and "religious" whenever it is convenient to do so.

>>That would be a bit strange: suppose the Catholic church is not a religion - would that entitle it to molest children?<<

But it is.

And they did.

Dear Pericles,

<<I could independently determine that the process of coming closer to God was to sacrifice a virgin at the high altar on midsummer's eve. If the result was a good harvest, I wouldn't have much of a job convincing gullible folk that this was a result they should recognize. I'd become a sage, in fact.>>

The result of coming closer to God is being closer to God, and ultimately, God, not a good harvest: uniting with Him, realising you were never separate in the first place. Along with that comes the loss of one's false human identity and an end of all suffering, including the ontological fear of death.

If all you are after is a good harvest, better not waste your time and efforts on religion, rather upgrade your farm machinery and agricultural practices (you could experiment sacrificing a virgin, but I predict this experiment will fail to improve your harvest).

<<Catholicism is a religion>>

There is SOME religion left in Catholicism, but some rubbish as well.

<<the "mother church" is a branch of the Christian faith... in other words, a religion>>

Jesus initiated good religious practices, so Christians are religious to the extent they follow his instructions. Mere belonging to the church is not more religious than belonging to a footie club.

<<The Catholic religion is responsible for creating an environment in which its members were allowed to transgress, and to be "forgiven">>

The Catholic CHURCH is.

The purpose of confession is not to be forgiven, but to be reconciled with God, to stop having the sin stand between oneself and God.

The later invention of hell and that absolution saves from its flames, was introduced by the church for secular motives and is a degenerated form of the original practice. The only hell there is, is the separation from God which most of us experience in this world.

Also, reconciliation with God requires genuine contrition: it seems that some contemporary Catholic priests ignore that requirement.

You too, like Belly, seem to buy the Catholic story as if all their current practices are religious. Why?

Poirot "use your smarts and eloquence to get your message across"

I did. And virtually everything I've said has either been ignored or dishonestly distorted.

I shall exercise my "smarts" by exiting this pointless sham of a "debate".
Adios, amigos.

Lucky for us shocka did not own the bat or ball.
Leaving in a huff, because your view is not valued as much by others as your self is waving the white flag.
Y head spinning stuff!
Religion is not what you think, it is what its billions of followers through out history think and thought it was.is.
Catholic Church in my view mostly looks like a PEDOPHILES structure because it brings men who are other than natural men to its service.