This amazes me that Labor on one hand is congratulating itself because 18 so called asylum seeker are going home.
Quote "Mr Bowen says the transfer is a "significant step" that shows the Government's asylum seeker policy is working"

BUT on the same day the Government sends the navy 100's of KM into Indonesian waters to pick up 180 from a boat that was not even sinking and now is bringing them to Australia (it was 45KM of Indonesian land)

Why couldn't Indonesia, which has a bigger Navy than Australia go and get them? (because they do not want them).

Bowen said he did not want to set any precedents with regard to transfers that the smugglers could exploit.
BUT he has again showed the smugglers just call the Australian Taxi service and we will send the Navy right into Indonesian waters to pick you up and bring you to Australia.

Con't Not only did the Government send in a navy vessel but 4 planes as well, there is another million or so dollars down the drain.
The boat was in Indonesian waters WHY were they not just handed back to Indonesia?

As long as you are in denial, you can do almost anything.

The problem is the lost soles who get caught up in all this false hope and spin labor puts out.

It's a real pity our own people don't get treated so well.

Even our diggers had to pay their own way to attend a ceremony in their honor and these were people who fought and lost mates to save this great nation.

God only knows why!

Hi PhillipS,

You might be being a bit unfair characterizing it as a labor problem.

There are some good solid men and women in the labor party. And traditional labor has been a strong supporter of Australian interests.

I see it more as a left wing affliction. Those on left of both major parties see “asylum seekers” as a fashionable cause.
Let’s not forget the liberals Judi Moylan & Petro Georgiou (and the pinup boy of the left, Malcolm Frazer—does he still qualify as a “liberal” ?)
And, I am a little suspicious of the way the libs so readily fell into line with Chris Bowen’s “aspirational” enlargement of our intake to 20,000.

Sometimes the best way to solve an problem is not to attack it head-on. Instead of a raft of expensive new processes aimed at discouraging the illegals, perhaps we'd be more effective by doing things to disincentivize those who aid and abet them: the legal buzzards who sit around on the fence all day waiting to pick holes in any new legislation that gets rolled out ; and the activists who can at any old time of the night or day find the wherewithal to picket , protest or petition our social media sites.

Which is why I have been a long time sponsor of a nation wide program aimed at providing “refugee” activists with more productive pursuits –and so far this short list:

1) A guest role on Big Brother (on basis that most activists have been playing the role of Big Brother for years, and love to hog the lime light)
2) A guest role on My Kitchen Rules or Celebrity Chef (given how talented activists are in cooking up baloney), or
3) Practically any role or position on SBS or the ABC (where they would already know all of the lines).

I am pretty confident that practically all activists would find at least one of the above to their liking

Perhaps we should re-enact the Siev-X tragedy where it's believed the Australian Navy were told to hold back from rescuing a sinking boat and hundreds drowned as a result.

Remember the stand-off between the Rudd and Indonesian governments over the Tamil refugees rescued in Indonesian waters by the Oceanic Viking?

The Indonesians refused to use force to make them disembark but in reality there were no Indonesian ports willing to accept them so they ended up on Christmas Island.

The Indonesian stance was also a response to the handful of boats earlier turned back by Howard, which they strongly opposed.

So why will "turning back the boats" now work?

Bowen's announcement is just typical standard political spin and Abbott would have responded in exactly the same way.

Hi Wobbles,

Could I interest you in a role on Big Brother or My Kitchen Rules?

@Wobbles,

Two more comments on your post:

1) <<Perhaps we should re-enact the Siev-X tragedy WHERE IT IS BELIEVED the Australian Navy were told to hold back from rescuing a sinking boat and hundreds drowned as a result.>>

What you choose to believe doesn’t count.

2) <<Remember the stand-off between the Rudd and Indonesian governments over the Tamil refugees rescued in Indonesian waters by the Oceanic Viking?The Indonesians refused to use force to make them disembark but in reality there were no Indonesian ports willing to accept them so they ended up on Christmas Island.>>


You ask us if we “remember” –but you clearly do not remember, yourself, because:

i) The Oceanic Viking “asylum seekers” (aka hijackers) were taken to Indonesian port but refused to disembark until they got their demand to be transferred to one of the affluent Western countries on their shopping list.
ii) And all the while, while they waited, we dully served then up culturally appropriate meals at OZ tax payers expense ( LOL) Here’s a picture of some of the hijackers NB the traumatized expressions on their faces!
http://www.smh.com.au/world/sri-lankan-group-in-legal-limbo-20101216-18zmy.html
iii) And what happen to them after that <<so they ended up on Christmas Island>> –really, all of them? Well here’s a different account from a source close to your heart (The Green Left) :
“On the basis of this agreement, the last of the asylum seekers left the boat on November 17 and were taken to an Indonesian detention centre. .some of the refugees have been resettled: Canada accepted two; the United States accepted 22; three were resettled in Norway, and 13 in New Zealand. Twenty were rejected by these countries, despite being recognised as refugees.But, the refugees told GLW, 17 are detained in a UN camp in Romania. The camp is a detention centre, the refugees cannot leave. Another four are detained on Christmas Island because of adverse security assessments by ASIO.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/45507

Again, Wobbles, what you choose to believe doesn’t count.

SPQR - To me it is a labor problem because none of them have the guts to tell Indonesia "they are the problem, they let them into there country knowing full well they are not tourists who will go home after a holiday"
quote "no Indonesian ports willing to accept them" Wrong the Government did not want them they could have told a port to accept them.

wobbles - Indonesia can rescue them but they do not want to they need to be forced too just pull all our ships and planes away, then it is there problem. we go 370 km and they can't go 45 km NO MORE AID FOR INDONESIA.

Malaysia and Indonesia ARE THE PROBLEM they can stop most of them easily but do not want to, the more that come to Australia the better for them. It weakens us monetarily and culturally both in a big way

Things will improve drastically when these boats are turned around.

Some people are of the opinion that Indonesia can refuse those
"rescued" entry.
Under Maritime law and Solas treaties a ship should take those rescued
to the nearest port. If the sunken vessel is of Indonesian nationality
then there is even more reason to accept the crew and passengers.

That they do refuse, are grounds for Australia to put them on planes
back to Indonesia.

bazz - except for a few weeks ago (1 boatload were returned) all are transported to Australia because Indonesia do not even attempt to go and find them because if they found them they would have to rescue them. 45km and they did not go we went 370km from Australian land 1 ship and 4 planes.

Labor in denial or stupid another example Quote
"a spokesman for Mr Bowen said: "We have a robust processing regime and there certainly are genuine ... refugees in the the Sri Lankan caseloads, as the statistics show."
1) Statistics can be manipulated to show whatever result you want.
2) I remember 1 was approved then later turned out to be part of a death squad.
3) Also cap't Emad was approved. Big joke that turned out to be.

Juliar your checking process does not work.

Well guys, just hope that Australia is never invaded and that you and your families don't become refugees. Ohhhhh, how your "attitudes" would then change.

Hi there PHILLIP S...

In one of your earlier threads, you asked amongst other things, why did the Australian Navy pick up these boat people when their vessel was only 45Kms from Indonesian landfall ?

An interesting question ? It is my belief, the Australian Government are absolutely terrified of Indonesia. Terrified of their enormous military.

If I'm way of the mark (and I'd need to be thoroughly pursuaded so) why ever do we continue to genuflect to them, both militarily and economically ?

We continue to put-up with their scorn, derision, contempt even their abuse, need I go on ?

Yet we continue to give them millions and millions in aid. Provide them with military training (and that's a real joke !), donate military hardware, aircraft etc etc.

And all we ask in return, is a bit of co-operation with stopping the 'leaky boats'. Nothing very much in the scheme of things ? And all they do in return...laugh behind our backs. NO, THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY CORRECT, they actually laugh at us quite overtly, because they know we're scared of 'em !

Yep, we Aussies, the big tough bronzed ANZAC Aussies are scared of the Indonesians - absolutely !

And I gotta tell you all it makes me feel so very very ashamed and embarrassed. And in turn dear reader, makes me feel very bloody angry too !

Yeah, I know what you're all thinking and I agree. It's not the Aussie, the individual that's scared, it's our damn useless government and the politicians in that useless government, yes indeed, it's they who are frightened.

God help us, we're perceived as being so very weak.

o sung wu - You are so right on one post I put the strength of the Indonesian military and police from around 2006 data even then it was way bigger than ours is now.
I have continually said Indonesia & Malaysia can stop them but they do not want to as it undermines Australia every time a boat arrives.
The politicians we have must be the biggest joke of every country.
Rudd & Gillard wasting billions in gifts and bribes to get the UN security council seat, what a waste of money.
I can say Australia has never had a more incompetent Government that looks after other people to the detriment of there own citizens.

DiamondPete - Even the UN has admitted a lot of these so called refugees are ECONOMIC REFUGEES. You are wrong my attitude would not change I would go and fight for the country something these WELFARE FOR LIFERS will NEVER do.

No Phillip, your anti refugee "attitude" would change, and you would do all in your power to remove your wife, kids and family from the immediate threat of rape, torture and death. And you wouldn't be spending your days listening in comfort, to anti refugee shock jocks ..... and believing everything you hear.

DiamondPete - What can I say except you now become an irrelevant person to discuss anything with. The reason is you set yourself up as an authority on me, a person you do not even know.
To quote you "No Phillip, your anti refugee "attitude" would change, and you would do all in your power to remove your wife, kids and family from the immediate threat of rape, torture and death"

Please don't give up your day job to become a psychoanalyst you have already failed.

Any further communication from you will be disregarded.

I realise the truth hurts some people, but it's always worth telling. When some people hear the truth, or what they don't like hearing, they run away. So be it.

This is a free society (something denied to most refugees in their homelands), and we all have the right to speak our minds here. Long live freedom.

Diamond Pete,

You float a highly unlikely hypothetical situation, and then proceed to use this to speculate on an unknown person's actions. This level of fantasy is why Labor is in such trouble.

If China (the only country with the capability to take on Aus in the region) Then the conflict would be wide spread, and the UNHCR charter would most likely be out the window.

All of Labor's policies are falling apart, even their watered down Nauru solution is failing. This follows in the footsteps of the BER fiasco, the health policy failure, the education failure etc.

And how are you DIAMOND PETE...

It would appear that you harbour a belief that most of these boat people are fleeing from extreme oppression, where there's a distinct likelihood, if these folk were to be returned to their homeland, they could suffer extreme hardship, even death ?

And what evidence do you have of that ? I'd not be particularly coerced or persuaded by anything these advocates might say, nor just any data from the UN or it's agencies, either.

Interestingly, many of the boats that have arrived, have many single, unaccompanied young men on board. It's true there are some families also, they're the minority, but there are many more young men than families.

With respect to you and others herein who share your position, I don't wish to engage in a 'dog fight', where you assert one thing, I another, and neither of us possessing any hard, experiential evidence to endorse or substantiate, yet another.

However, I'll bet money to a 'bucket of dog s..t', we (Aussies) are being taken as mugs, much like the rest of the western (developed) world ?

And if we're not very careful, we're going to lose our ability to preserve the sovereignty of our borders, and once that happens...well do I need to spell it out ? Today, it's our borders, tomorrow, our very culture.

Cheers.

Come on Diamond Pete old boy, try to grow up a bit.

Please explain how, if they were so endangered, our gate crashers can go "home" for holidays, pick a wife, or sort out family to join them, once they have conned their way in.

Also explain how this "home" is very often not the place they claimed to be fleeing from, when they gate crashed our boarder, & buried it in bull sh1t.

I get so sick of people like you who want to give away my kids heritage.

The future is starting to happen - An 86 YO man from Afghanistan has been convicted of "indecently touching two children" he was given a 16 month suspended sentence subject to strict conditions.

Here is the clincher his excuse was
Quote "he had been tortured by the Taliban when he lived in Afghanistan more than 20 years ago"
I can see that excuse being used a lot in Australia in the future.
95% on most boats are men, there is something wrong because all other conflict places the refugees are mostly women and children.

Wu, your post was full of "opinion". So, it's your "opinion" that refugees don't suffer "extreme hardship" if returned. You asked for evidence that they do, yet then immediately state that you'd not be persuaded by "ANYTHING" their advocates might say, nor any data whatsoever from the UN or any of it's agencies.

Now Wu, when anyone is as closed minded as that, it is obvious their "opinion" is an already held anti refugee opinion, likely ideologically based. If a person is only prepared to listen to facts and statistics that they ideologically approve of, then their view, like your's, will be politically and ideologically skewered and inaccurate (based on lack of full information).

You think we're going to lose "sovereignty of our borders". That's what they said about the Afghan cameleers in the 1800s, the post WW2 migrants from Europe, in the 60s about the Italians and Greeks here, in the 70s about the Arabs here, and they feared the Vietnamese refugees, in the 80s it was the oriental immigration "threat" with all those feared yellow skinned people here, now it's the Muslim "invasion" from Middle East regions ..... in EVERY case these stupid and unfounded fears and paranoia come from a MINORITY of uneducated, ignorant Australians filled with fear and paranoia towards anyone who's not exactly like them. Pathetic.

NOTHING in the world stays the same forever. Those who are emotionally or intellectually incapable of change, are always left behind.

Hi Pete,

The test results are in –bad news I’m afraid.
It's zirconium oxide all the way through.
To head off possible false advertising suites suggest an immediate rebranding to Zorconia –Pete
http://www.abazias.com/diamondblog/diamond-education/tests-to-tell-genuine-diamond-from-cubic-zirconia

Good evening to you DIAMONDPETE...

That's me my friend, an uneducated, closed mind, bigot !

We have boat people who travel from afar, in some cases traversing many other countries, in order to reach our shores - and why ?

I'll tell you why, because this silly stupid country of ours, has such generous Social Security benefits, that these 'desperate, fleeing refugee's' will do anything in order to get here.

Including, disposing of all their official documents, that will aid in establishing their bona fides, identity, and age. And in doing so, for the purposes of deceiving the Australian authorities. What terrific characters these people have ? Highly ethical citizens in the making. You really don't have a clue do you ?

This act alone, speaks volumes to me. Trickery and deception ! And these, my gullible and deluded friend, will the new citizens of Australia ! Remove ALL benefits, and then see how many will come ?

I'm sure you're a very decent, compassionate person. Sadly though, very naive and credulous, regrettably.

Gee, we're a stupid, silly nation

Hello Wu, please back up that "opinion" with facts and proof.

Please answer the following questions, one by one ....

1 - "precisely" how many refugees have done what you claim, in the manner that you claim, for the purposes that you claim? After you supply the exact number, please supply your "official" source and the documentary official "proof" ..... not "opinion".

2 - name these refugees.

3 - prove the "the" reason the boat people come to Australia is to specifically receive "Social Security benefits". I'm not seeking your "opinion". Please provide the precise documentary proof that proves your claim as to their one motivation.

Now remember Wu, I don't require your "opinion".

Also remember Wu, I do require precise, official, documentary proof of your claims.

I'm waiting. Don't worry though, I'm not pressuring you to give an immediate answer ..... I'll give you plenty of time to do lots of googling before you reply.

Here is the proof the Australian Government for whatever reason wants the refugees to come they pretend to want them stopped but in reality they are the ones telling the captain of the boat to bring them here.
Quote "AUSTRALIAN authorities decided to move 169 people rescued from a smuggling boat near the West Java coast on Saturday to Christmas Island rather than send them back to Indonesia."

o sung wu - someone wants an answer from you here 1) EVERY single refugee that comes to Australia could have gone to England or other countries closer BUT they did not. 2) can't give you all there names because a lot use false names and even state they come from a different country than they really do.

Philip S, wow such antipathy towards refugees. You must feel really threatened. Sad.

Economically they are illiterate,but also they are very corrupt.Today we learn that not only they have a deficit of $173 billion they also have an unfunded superannuation liability of $273 billion.They have a budget deficit of 33% of our GDP or over $72,000 debt for every family of 4 people.Add that to your mortgage.

Pete, how can anyone provide you with precise information that you request, when our leaders the labor party, don't have a clue themselves.

There were stats out there a while ago suggesting these people receive around $56,000 per year in benefits, while our own pensioners received some $16,000, that's after they have paid taxes all their lives for most.

I think we need to form a bleeding hearts club, where the likes of you, can contribute additional taxes for this and other issues you are so passionate about, so the rest of us can benefit from the taxes we pay and insist that our taxes be spent on our needs.

Much like they were no doubt intended to be in the first place.

@Diamond-Pete

It sounds like you have already salted the mine site, for you say:
<<precisely" how many refugees have done what you claim, in the manner that you claim, for the purposes that you claim? After you supply the exact number, please supply your "official" source>>

You will only accept << official sources>>

But you will never find official sources that admit they got it wrong or were/are incapable of making a determination.

Take one case we all (should) know about –Captain Emad.
The OFFICIAL sources found him to be a genuine refugee.
And even after the Four Corners exposé –he is still an OFFICAL refugee.
And now anyone who makes enquiries about him are told it is all covered by the privacy act,and official sources can’t disclose anything.

You’re on a very safe bet telling us you will only accept <<official >> sources.

Your record on financial matters doesn't exactly inspire confidence when you make statements like this, Arjay.

>>Economically they are illiterate<<

That may well be true, of course. But what is always interesting is the evidence that you offer to support your statements.

>>Today we learn that not only they have a deficit of $173 billion...<<

That number is the accumulation of the last four years in which government expenditure exceeded taxation. This level of spending has its roots in the GFC, of course, so you need to look at alternative courses of action before you can decide that it amounts to economic illiteracy.

The most obvious, of course, would have been to close up shop on government expenditure during this time, thereby creating a substantial recession, and dramatically boosting unemployment. This actually occurred in Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece and other European countries, whose government did not have a minerals boom to fall back on.

Or they could have raised taxes, to bring the books into balance. Faced with greater taxation, companies would have been forced to lay off workers, families would have less disposable income as well as the threat of unemployment, and we would have dived into recession anyway.

All policy options are flawed, and often have unintended consequences. But in fairness, you cannot use the accumulation of a budget deficit on its own as evidence of economic illiteracy.

Then there's this:

>>...they also have an unfunded superannuation liability of $273 billion.<<

This is a perennial problem that no government of any colour has yet had the courage to solve. This is what it looked like when Labor took over in 2007:

http://www.budget.gov.au/2007-08/bp1/html/bp1_bst7-03.htm

Also bear in mind that it was Costello who initially blew the unfunded liability from $29 billion to $98 billion over ten years, simply by not including it in his budget numbers. Clever.

It is indeed a crime for the workers of Australia to be forced to continue to carry this liability. But you cannot attribute it, I'm afraid, to economic illiteracy.

>>...budget deficit of 33% of our GDP<<

Japan's is 230% of GDP.

DP,

Your demands for extreme levels of proof for people destroying their documents is pathetic especially as you offer nothing yourself. It has been common knowledge for some time that there are some "refugees" flying into Indonesia with documents and then destroying them. The standard advice from the smugglers to their clients is to dispose of their documents.

Arjay, you have forgotten the almost $250 Billion in outstanding
government bonds.
I have found it difficult to get a handle on the total but whatever it
seems to be more than $600 billion.

I see nobody here has the capacity to answer my questions in order to prove their anti refugee "opinions" are mere "opinions" and nothing more.

It's amazing the antipathy that a tiny minority of secure, protected and safe Australians have for small numbers of refugees ... it says a lot about the morality and personal character of "some" Australians. I guess it makes these frightened and insecure Australians feel more powerful and in control. Sad.

Pericles, that was a great post, and you certainly put them in their place using facts, figures and logic.

And good afternoon to you DIAMONDPETE...

I do apologise for my 'tardiness' apropos answering the many questions, that you so, laconically put to me.

As you'd suggested, I was madly 'googling' away into the wee small hours, in some vain attempt to acquire the exact data that you require.

I thought for a moment, I'd actually 'jumped the box' once more ?

Of course, as you well know my blinkered friend, I cannot furnish such particulars that your seek. Similarily, neither can you offer any quality evidence to support your cause.

I've no doubt, if we both had unfettered and unabridged access to the relevant authorities eg; AFP, ACS, DEFAT, ASIO, and the Oz Navy - These and only these agencies, would be in a position to know the TRUE facts, DIAMONDPETE.

Certainly, any data provided by Government would be heavily expurgated, to prevent any further embarrassment, as a consequence of Mr Rudd's previous policies. So, any attempt to pry true facts from Govt. well, something about p... into the wind... ?

As a retired copper, I have several friends who work in certain areas. We discuss more than mere football results - think about it ? You don't need help from the CIA to get it? Or do you ?

The legal folk who provide advocacy services to these people, earn a good quid. There'd not be too many who'd continue to represent these people, pro bono publico, without first ensuring they'll get access to the Govt's. 'bucks'. The operative word is 'continue'.

In conclusion DP, you seem to have the general ability to put a few sentences together, marshal your thoughts, and in so doing, expand upon them in some logical structure.

Then, prima facie you're no mug ! However, if you continue to pursue such dogged naivety, with your erroneous thinking on this issue, then perhaps you may well be a mug ! And on 'mugs', my old desk Sergeant once taught me, DIAMONDPETE ?

'...Never argue with a mug...' !

Good afternoon to you.

o sung wu - Here a couple of lines about refugee legal costs.

Free legal aid for asylum seekers will cost taxpayers more than $60 million this year, an analysis shows.

Since July, $32 million has been paid to 22 law firms representing asylum seekers, News Limited reports.

On top of that, it reports running the migration review tribunal will cost $30 million as the number of unauthorised boat arrivals surges.

David Manne, the human rights lawyer who successfully led the appeal against the federal government's Malaysia solution, is also a big winner, with his Melbourne-based Refugee and Immigration Legal Centre receiving $4.13 million since his High Court victory in August.

THESE figure are a small proportion because the taxpayer is also paying the cost for the prosecution as well and the compensation that is awarded if needed.

The worst part is all this is for people that have never contributed ONE single thing to Australia and hold us in contempt with there rioters behavior when they don't get what they want.

'afternoon to you PHILLIP S...

Wow, there's a B I G quid in campaigning their causes, and advocating on behalf of these boat people ?

Yet they (the lawyers) would have us believe they do it, purely on humanitarian grounds ?

Look, nobody would deny that we, as a developed nation, should do our bit for the severely disadvantaged and indigent of our world.

Though, many might correctly argue we should've started with our very own homeless, and destitute as a priority ? Aren't a nation with compassion and values ?

But the UN with all it's foibles, run a multitude of refugee camps around the world which are literially brimming-over with very deserving people who've waited patiently for years, for resettlement into countries such as OZ.

Yet we have these 'boat people' who come to our shores and engage in conduct of a kind, calculated to deceive, in order to trick the Oz authorities as to their bona fides.

Further, it's my understanding most boat people are reasonably able-bodied and even fit.

According to a former colleague of mine, who was seconded to the United Nations, as a Special Envoy (Security), to the Refugee Camps on the border of Thailand and Cambodia.

He told me many of the refugees (of all ages), in those camps, were more often then not, infirm, sick, even terrified. Particulary those who may've fled from the clutches of the evil Pol Pot, late of the Khmer Rouge.

These 'boat people' are nothing like those he witnessed in the camps. None there could scrape together even enough Baht or Riels to buy a coffee.

Therefore, they'd never be able to pay the necessary $10,000 plus, to 'people smugglers'.

Anyway PHILLIP S, many thanks for providing me with that useful information, I had no idea how much these lawyers were paid...amazing !

Our friend DIAMONDPETE, is probably a good fellow, and believes sincerely, in his convictions.

Myself, I just wish I was less pragmatic and hard-nosed, maybe then I'd be a little less misanthropic in my old age...Oh well ?

two major facts NO ONE can deny that sway my view away from these people are.

1) 85% still on welfare after being accepted into Australia after 5 years. FACT FROM GOV.

2) 95% on most boats are men. FACT

These two point tell me something is wrong.

Minor points.
1) Indonesia and Malaysia let them in knowing full well where they are going.
2) Indonesia can't go 45km to rescue them but we can go 370km.
3)Indonesia say they can't find them but merchant ships seem to be able to find them easy.
4) Indonesia have a massive police force but can' seem to find 180 to 240 foreign people getting onto a boat.
5) Indonesia's navy is far larger than ours but they can't find anything.
6) Australia is BILLIONS in DEBT but Indonesia is in Surplus yet we give them Foreign aid.
Lastly) We have a country that is Governed by absolute incompetents and gutless people who kowtow to Indonesia.

Pericles,there was no need for the stimulus and bailouts here.Labor had a $20 billion surplus and turned this into $173 billion deficit.They wasted money on schools and batts and now you are defending them?

I think the deficit with their creative accounting will be far greater than is revealled now and we have to take your word that they inherited the super decficit if $273 billion.

It is beyond me at times why you defend this corrupt evil banking system but then again you profit from their scamming derivative system which feeds off their counterfeiting of our productivity and them expressing it as debt.

QE3 is here and even the financial markets are screaming bloody murder this time since the really big parasites will destroy the middle class too.

Keep trying Pericles,since all you have left now is derision and ad hominem.

DP, its all about priorities and if we had spare cash laying around, and our kids were fully cared for, our homeless provided with an affordable alternative and our seniors well cared for not to mention our failing health and education systems, you may just find many of us would share some of your views, but the fact is, this is not the case.

You see the tax dollar only stretches so far and, given that our collective tax dollars are expended, before one cent is forked out for the illegals, so for you to openly support these (100% BORROWED) dollars for this purpose, the way you do, simply means you don't care as much for your own people, as you do for these illegals.

Now that, in any way you care to view it, is an utter utter disgrace and something you should be utterly ashamed of, esspecially with regards to the elderly, many of whom supported you, through their taxes, prior to you becoming a wage earner yourself.

I hope you are proud of yourself.

PhillipS,
Thanks for posting that info and i hope you will post more as it comes to hand.

You will often see me refering to these 'illegals' as shonks, cheats, con artists and gate crashers, which is what they are.

I base this on the fact they have no docs on arrival, so they wish to make it as difficult as possible for us to establish their bona fides. Secondly they are willing to risk a very dangerous voyage at a price many times more than the normal air fare, so as to take most advantage of our generosity. We take the easy way out and give them permanent residence dispite knowing their stories are false.

So to answer your question in the title Labor is stupid and in denial. They refuse to take the measures necessary to stop the boats and continue to waste our money. One could also add all the other stuff ups they have undertaken in the 5 years.

This government will not even admitt they stuffed up let alone accept any responsibility for the 1000 or so deaths of the illegals uder their watch.

Hi there (again) PHILLIP S.

I too thank you for providing some figures that can be attributed to the burgeoning costs associated with accommodating these illegals.

Why can't people see that we're being taken for fools with these 'boat people'. Worse still, we're apparently borrowing more money, in order to keep them.

Even a financial dummy like me realizes, the more we borrow, the deeper in debt we become. It's your's and my grandchildren who'll be burdened with this immense debt, and where in hell are we going to find the money to pay it ?

We possess virtually no manufacturing industry whatsoever.

Even our primary industries are under threat.

Sure, we blessed with huge mineral wealth, which we proceed to dig up and ship it to China, without even considering, rendering it with some degree of 'added value' ?

And when the mineral boom slows, and eventually stops. From where exactly do we obtain the money, in order to service our creditors ?

I know, we'll sell Australia ! State by state. Starting first with the ACT.

You know my friends, it's so very sad, that we no longer have a really ethical, Statesman like figure. Someone who can 'stop the rot', and lead us away from this dark abyss, that we're all heading for. Away from certain financial oblivion. It matters little, of what political persuasion that person may be ?

What Australia really needs, (immediately), is ethical leadership, not some nebulous ideological prescription. 'Real Honest Leadership'! To get us out of this helluva mess we're all in !

Is there anyone out there who'd fit the bill I wonder ?

Cheers.

Diamond Pete,

By your own measures, your comments are your opinion and nothing more. There have been newspaper articles discussing that the smugglers instruct the passengers to destroy their documentation. While some people arriving without documentation is expected, everyone doing so is beyond reasonable proof.

Nice try, Arjay. It's known as getting your retaliation in first.

>>Keep trying Pericles,since all you have left now is derision and ad hominem<<

There is only one of us here dealing in facts, Arjay. And strictly between you and me, I know which it is.

>>Pericles,there was no need for the stimulus and bailouts here.Labor had a $20 billion surplus and turned this into $173 billion deficit.<<

So that would add up to a stimulus of around $200 billion. As I tried so hard to point out, if this money had not been injected into the economy through the government taking on additional debt, where would it have come from? You can rubbish the means by which this was injected, and the lasting value that it created, but it did actually keep the wheels on the economy. If it had been raised through additional taxation in order to keep us in "surplus", would you have been happier?

The stimulus prevented a recession here. Without a boost provided by the additional government debt/additional taxation, we would have higher unemployment and a stagnating economy. Fortunately for us, we had the strong buffer of our mineral exports.

>>...we have to take your word that they inherited the super decficit if $273 billion<<

You most definitely don't have to take my word for it. It is a matter of record, completely independent of party politics and spin. What do you think the Future Fund was for?

>>It is beyond me at times why you defend this corrupt evil banking system but then again you profit from their scamming derivative system which feeds off their counterfeiting of our productivity and them expressing it as debt.<<

I thought we were discussing government policy here?

And since when do I "profit from their scamming derivative system" any more than you do?

>>QE3 is here and even the financial markets are screaming bloody murder this time since the really big parasites will destroy the middle class too.<<

That's a pretty big claim, Arjay. Can you back it up with evidence, or examples?

Thought not.

Updated score SMUGGLERS 1 - Government 0 So many have come in the last few weeks that the refugees are being transferred to the Australian mainland.
Quote "120 people have been moved to two detention centres in Western Australia and one in Victoria"

Further to the costing apparently there are 28 Salvation Army staff on Nauru - would anyone like to bet who is paying there salary (taxpayers) I don't mind that but it would be a package deal whereby we were also subsidizing the salary for the CHARITY bosses (who's salary would be massive) This would be a multi million dollar contract.
Just over a year ago the charities were telling the Government to release more refugees into the community and they would look after them.
BUT One of the charity bosses went on media and said that to do it the would need Quote " a lot more money".

Further proof of the ECONOMIC REFUGEES
Here is a quote from a salvation army worker on Nauru
"I've heard them say they've sold their houses, they've sold their farms, they've sold all their possessions [to come to Australia],'' he said."
That is what an ECONOMIC refugee is going to do.
If escaping torture, percussion and a terrorized individual you would be out of there abandoning possessions etc like the Jews did in WW2, the Africans are doing in Sudan, the Syrians are doing when escaping Syria - they are not saying the army is around the corner coming to torture us we have to sell everything then go.

Isn't it interesting to see our top economic dogs are voicing real concerns about our ability to service the needs of our future retirees (baby boomers) with several suggestions, including, raising the retirement age to 70, keeping our own super out of reach till we turn 70 (currently 55 I believe), even then they are looking to stop us taking lump sums, which will mean to many they have to sell their homes, as super lump sums often pay down loan left overs, and last but not least, raising taxes.

WHY?

Because this incompetent, irresponsible government has pissed away our savings, our future borrowings and they are working on spending our grand kids future funds, all in the name of saving illegals and any other useless, I'll planned, I'll costed brain wave they call a policy.

As I have said many times, passing legislation is simply gaining approval, implementation is what counts and, it is what they lack.

If I was given one chance to have my one say to this government, I would simply say.... GROW SOME BALLS!

And do what you have been empowered to do, that is, SPEND OUR TAXES WISELY and stop pussy footing around on thus issue.
I say either fix it, or step aside.