You missed the point csteele.
BTW it is either one p & 2 l or the other way about.

It was not just because oil has peaked.
They just did not survey oil, it was the whole range of oil, coal & gas.
No one as far as I can ascertain has challenged their data.
It does not matter how much the model has been refined,
Garbage in, garbage out.

It does not matter just what coal orders have been signed here, they
are just part of the total.

The doubt will not go away until problems such as this are sorted.

Bazz,
You're laboring endlessly on about a peripheral issue.
It's tantamount to saying you won't eat ice cream because you don't like the chocolate sauce.
Chocolate or caramel, the ice cream underneath is still ice cream.
At either end of the spectrum you are obsessing about, the picture remians one of disaster.
The world gets that, except for a few nutcases, people with a vested interest, political opportunists, overnight scientists or those sucked in by one of the above.
What you cannot escape is that every recognized specialist in this field foresees a disaster, while you are trying to second guess them.
Every time I listen to one of you folk what I hear is someone who is just desperate to be seen as clever - more clever than the best scientific brains in the world.
Dude, it ain't going to happen.
You've clearly got a good mind and a decent education. Put it to some positive use, for goodness sake, and maybe, just maybe you and all the others who think they're some latter day Galileos might leave the world a better place than you found it.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Bazz,

You say “Until the IPCC says they don't know what they are talking about and shows where the Upsalla data is wrong then I will have my doubts.”

Jeez mate, no need to go to the IPCC for that, you could have asked me.

When Kjell Aleklett presented for Uppsala's Global Energy Systems Group in 2009 and claimed the IPCC predictions were exaggerated he did indeed speak about peak oil. He made a very definite prediction,

“The world oil depletion curve, above, is based on all available information on oil reserves and estimates of the amounts yet-to-find, and indicates that world oil production will reach a peak (87 million barrels per day) around 2010 and decline thereafter.”
http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/References/Aleklett/20090611%20Sydney4.pdf

He was right that 87 million barrels a day was reached in mid 2010 but the problem is it hasn't looked back since. The latest figures from the International Energy Agency for 2012 were “Global oil supply rose by 0.2 mb/d to 91.1 mb/d in May” http://omrpublic.iea.org/currentissues/full.pdf

Reality can be a bitch sometimes.

So does this mean your doubts will now dissipate or is there something else you will go and hang them on?

You both seem to think that the only valid science is that presented by
those scientists who affirm that global warming is as bad as they say.

You do not seem to be able to accept that some equally valid science
is presented by others that contradicts global warming.

That is a very rigid view. I must go back and read the paper again as
I think it showed that the real available fossil fuel would result in
about 1 deg rise by 2100. Thats from memory, so I must check.

I don't think it is going to be of any value to discuss it further
when such rigid positions are held.

Frankly from my own point of view and knowledge I do not know whether
global warming is real or not, but when fundamental questions such as
this come up and are ignored you just have to wonder why.

Dear all,

Some good news & some bad news.

First the bad news, I have a couple of extracurricular projects I need to finalize so –-as I have been promising myself for weeks --I will need to take a break from OLO, at least for a short time.

Now the good news (for some), on account of this, I will not be able to unpack and rubbish a couple of comments on this thread that thoroughly need binning -–so I’ll have to make do with just putting them on notice.

The first is this bit of fantasizing from AnthonyV:

<<I recently returned from a couple of months travelling in Europe, USA and several Asian countries.
I discovered during my travel - from reading newspapers, talking to folk, reading letters to editors, etc, - that in Europe and Asia, the reality of AGW is fully accepted and the discussion is all about how much time we have to get things done and what should indeed be done>>

Total and utter make-believe!

Sitting around a bar in Patpong with a few inebriated cronies does count as a polling of national intentions!

And even a cursory viewing of the great Copenhagen, Cancun & Durban potlatches should have wised-up --all but the most one-eyed political hack masquerading as a devotee of science -- that most attendees where only there for what they could get, not what they could give.

And the second, is this bit of fluff from CSteele (which she no doubt thought she got away with!).
<<People still cast doubt over computer modelling but the so called father of global warming Hansen's predictions have been right on the money. These models have been refined dramatically since then>>

Yeah right!

And to make it topical, & sound scientific!, she adds this:

<<Professor Higg's modelling from 50 years ago predicted the Higgs Boson. Seems he got that one right too>>

LOL

I will catch-up with both offenders later re those comments.

Cheers, for now.

its more than a fixed position bazz

quote..""a peripheral issue.""

ie thus clearly not earth shattering

""It's tantamount to saying you won't eat ice cream
because you don't like the chocolate sauce.""

no its like saying the chocolate icing
[is as much ice cream as you get]

""
Chocolate or caramel,
the ice cream underneath is still ice cream.""

except when its bull merde


""At either end of the spectrum
you are obsessing about, the picture remians one of disaster.""

from the spelling expert

""The world gets that, except for a few nutcases,""

yeah 99%..right
[but mate thats refuted]..that was the % of the respondants
not all ascience/let alone 99% of scientists

ITS THE LIES MATE!
only 500 [1000]..will pay
yet we bailout pensioners and polititions with huge pay rises
that carries over into ex polititions pensions[hell juliar gets double obama gets

think about the margin issues
lies upon lies..if its the right thing to do
YOU DO IT[you tax yourself..but no YOUR NOT PAYING[only 500]
who will pass the tax on to the muggins[not lol paying it

""people with a vested interest,""

ie self gain[free carbon credits?]
or farmers wantin g cash for nuthing
or lobby wanting to sell wind/solar/tide..etc power

""political opportunists,
overnight scientists or those sucked in by one of the above""

or took the bribes to accumulate the data[via trees]
till the trees didnt match the 'hockey stick'..so get other data[that does]

hell either trees does it
or someone is fact shoping!

and yes they did
sooo many lies..so many liars

yet they think its icecream..as athe scames reap in their cake

yep just like smokes[scientists selling lies]
creating fears..to raise nice govt subsidy
set up the antismoking brigade
add stink to the smoke

yep same same
next we go for sugar[diabetus out spends any other non cure]
by far..booze id linked to the top 3 causes of death

you die from a specific disease
not from..'smoking/drinking/eating'
fraud science delivers the needed fear to get the next cash cow

next booze?