Dear Paul1405,

I am also a Green. However, I think every political party has in it the seeds of its destruction. As a political party grows bigger and becomes more accepted people will join it to pursue a political career rather than to further the ideals on which the party was founded. That has happened with both Libs and Labor. If the Greens are accepted by a much larger percentage of the population it will happen to the Greens.

As far as capitalism goes it is highly flawed. However, the main alternative presented has even greater flaws. Every country formed by Marxists has been a dictatorship. Lenin reduced labour unions to mere transmission belts of the party line. Dictators stink whether their names are Lenin, Hitler, Castro or Pinochet.

I am a Green because I am concerned with what is happening to the environment, and the lack of concern for it in the major parties.

Capitalism is a form of economy not an ideology. In the Scandinavian countries it has resulted in great political freedom and a much smaller gap between poor and rich than in most countries. The Scandinavian countries also have a great concern for the environment. I prefer to follow the Scandinavian lead.

Paul,

With your wild, sweeping, and outlandish, statements, you are the poster boy for why the greens are regarded by the majority as a bit of a joke.

Hi David,

I totally agree with your last paragraph. What I am opposed to are those who wish to unfetter capitalism, believing the 'free market' will fix all, eventually. These people believe government has only a minimal roll to play in society, mostly to engage in the imposition of law and order, their law, their order, of course. people like us, are seen at best as harmless misguided fools who would block 'progress' in the name of some ridicules cause, or at worst, evil communists out to take over society. Unfortunately in Australia today you will hear reference to "the economy" a hundred time from our political leaders for ever once they make reference to "our society". Many have lost sight of the fact we live in a society and the economy serves our society, for them it is the other way around. I have long abandoned the Marxism b.s. and believe in a mixed capitalist, socialists, society where government has a vital roll to play.

You say "That has happened with both Libs and Labor. If the Greens are accepted by a much larger percentage of the population it will happen to the Greens."
That to me is somewhat elitist. It does not necessarily follow that larger mass appeal will automatically lead to the abandonment of ideals and principles. The danger is if we follow the keep small philosophy, a party for only the truly committed, then we are in danger of having our ideals and nothing else, mean while society crumbles around us. I am committed to changing society through the democratic process and that means influence in decision making which can only be obtained through the ballet box. Broader appeal, more votes, more influence

Dear Paul,

You wrote: "You say "That has happened with both Libs and Labor. If the Greens are accepted by a much larger percentage of the population it will happen to the Greens."

That to me is somewhat elitist."

That to me is completely elitist. I see nothing wrong in being elitist. I believe our function is to make the general polity environmentally conscious. If we succeed in that care for the environment will become part of the platform of Labor and the Coalition.

We can then dissolve, and I can join a group which is concerned with separation of religion and state which is another one of my concerns.

You also wrote: "I am committed to changing society through the democratic process and that means influence in decision making which can only be obtained through the ballet box."

I disagree with the above also. Influence in decision making is expressed in many ways besides the ballot box. There is writing, demonstrations and even posting to online opinion. Issues do not get to the ballot until candidates express them or there are referenda. Influence in decision making includes arousing consciousness so we can vote on them. The ballot box is one of the last stages not the only stage.

One of the errors of the environmental movement is to blame environmental destruction on capitalism. Environmental destruction follows from not taking the environment into consideration when making decisions. The Chinese Three Gorges Dam and the ploughing up of the chernozem resulting in a Soviet Dust Bowl were acts of great environmental destuction having nothing to do with capitalism. In fact the capitalist US got rid of its earlier dust bowl by following better environmental practices. The Soviet should have followed the capitalist example.

Big call there gentlemen.
Greens growing, or did you both want to say going?
12% is not most.
Saturday, against all odds, greens vote in the Victorian by election will add weight to the fact.
They are about to decline.

David, I was incorrect in saying influence in decision making which can only be obtained through the ballet box. True, one can influence decision making through other ways, "writing, demonstrations and even posting to online opinion." Contesting elections is important, The Greens actually contest more elections (seats) than either Liberal or Labor. The Greens are not just an environmental party, even though the environment is a huge part of our platform, we are also a strong social justice party. we need to present ourselves as a genuine alternative to the big two. Judging by the antics of Labor and Liberal it can not be that hard to present a real alternative.
Belly Taking a line from one of your Labor lad's to another Labor lad, at the NSW Labor name calling conference "put a sock in it!"