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The Forum > General Discussion > Is a battle with the greens one that Labor can afford to win?

Is a battle with the greens one that Labor can afford to win?

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I read a very interesting article by Cassandra Wilkinson this morning:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/labor-called-and-it-wants-its-base-back/story-e6frgd0x-1226421978868

"Labor called and it wants its base back"

By comparing the greens / labor relationship to the coalition / one nation. The obvious electoral benefit of a fringe party mopping up the extremist votes has to be balanced against the costs or association / collaboration with those extremist policies.

There is no doubt that having the greens on the extreme left wing has allowed labor to focus on its centre and helped put many labor MPs into parliament, however, having missed the opportunity to excise this threat, the greens have now grown to the point where they are having a serious influence in dictating Labor policy, and this is causing the conservative working class to flee to the coalition.

The reality on the ground is that the greens now command 25% of the left wing vote, and while a chemotherapy type putting the greens last in every thing might bump the primary vote, the 2pp will drop further from 44%. Also the greens are not held in quite the same opprobrium as One Nation, and it is unlikely that labor can stomp them out completely.

I think that putting the greens last in everything is a good long term tactic, but have serious doubts that Labor will have the guts to reduce its seats to a Queensland like level in the short term. If this is just "puffing" to help negotiations with the greens, the long term outlook is dire.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 6:14:29 AM
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One would hope the Conservative side of politics in this country will agree with Labors move.
It however is true that currently just say no,to every thing is in favor in that group.
Hence Abbott has refused to even take part in talks to resolve boat refugee troubles.
Mirrored in almost every policy, see SMs own offers on NBN , little difference in current leaders of Liberal party, and the lost Greens exist, both sponsor the next deaths at sea.
Reminding us Labor mucked up,some thing few would not agree with, but for political gain refusing to be part of fixing it.
A brief look at even SMs post history and mine, will uncover our mutual distrust and dislike of the radical greens.
I ask again, is todays Australian version of the Tea Party to use Greens to harm Labor and Australia,or be part of removing the problem?
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:43:05 AM
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When you sit on the extreme right of politics like you SM, I suppose the Greens would appear as being the extreme left. This 'campaign' to destabilise the loose agreement we The Greens have with Labor is interesting, something I don't fully support. The campaign seems to be run by a couple of Labor mugs from the NSW right NSW Party secretary Sam Dastyari and chief government whip Joel Fitzgibbon and member for Hunter. The 'campaign' is being fueled by the conservative press led by the usual suspects the Murdoch fish wrappers.
Something of interest at the next federal election only 3 of the 9 Green senators are up again plus Adam Bandt in Melbourne. At the last election Labor relied on Green preferences in 48 of the 72 seats they won. Some basic stats for you, the Greens only have 3 senators up for re-election next time 1 each in Tas, WA and SA. We will retain Tas and most likely SA lose WA to the coalition but have a good chance in Vic and NSW to take 1 of Labor where they have 3 up, as do the coalition, who would need 57.1% to get 4 up. The coalition can realistically think they can win 3 extra senate seats 2 from Labor 1 in Tas and 1 in Qld (most likely to go to Bob Katter) and 1 from the Greens in WA. I can see the senate after next time being Coalition 36 Labor 27 Greens 10 Katter 1 Ind 1 DLP 1. The big senate winner might be Nick Xenophon. My crystal ball.
You may think 100% of Green preferences flow to the ALP, not so, with a tight HTV about 80% go Labor with an open HTV about 76-78% Labor but with a Liberal preference it can be as low as 60% to Labor. There goes a heap of Labor marginals.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 11:47:14 AM
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You may call us extremists or other names. However, I support the Greens because I think they are on the right track in more areas than the other parties.

They agree with neither Labor nor the Coalition on the boat people. They want Australia to observe the refugee convention. Both Labor and the Coalition are willing to let that go by the by in appealing to the xenophobia of much of the Australian electorate.

The Greens are interested in our long term survival by perserving the environment which is the base of our long term survival rather than destroying it for short term jobs and corporate profits.

I am reminded of an old joke.

"Your money or your life."

"Take my life. I need my money for my old age."

The Greens are not promoting prejudice like One Nation. We are interested in our long term survival.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 2:57:26 PM
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Daidf no longer what you want Friend Greens have never suited most Australians.
Any pretense at being a party went with Brown.
It is not spite but true most hate or dislike the greens.
A party of unachievable dreams, mad thoughts, get rid of the world bank just one.
Extremism wrapped in honey coated bread.
For a party said to be pro refugees they hold responsibility for 800 deaths.
You will see this is the start of the end,for greens, and 88 of every hundred voters are pleased.
Those votes will find a home Liberal or Labor.
Those talking of disenfranchise of greens should under stand it was an inside job.
A party wishing to rule on such a small base bought about its own decline, helped by its lost leadership unworthy of that name.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 3:49:48 PM
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Paul,

When you sit on the extreme left wing as you do many of those in Labor are right wing. I see the labor movement as center left, the coalition as center right, those such as one nation as far right (nationalist), and the greens as far left (hard core environmentalist and far left socialist).

I do consider myself conservative but far from right wing as I do not associate with any of the nationalist tendencies. I favoring equal rights and responsibilities for individuals. I prefer small government that provides regulation to guide rather to control, fiscal conservatism, rather than the free spending of the left. etc. The socialist policies that the greens espouse have been an abject failure in Europe, and are largely responsible for the troubles they are having now.

It is not just the labor right wing that are railing against green extremism, but the left wing too. While the greens were a tiny minority supported by the intellectual effete Labor could take their preferences and essentially ignore their more ridiculous demands. Now the greens have genuine power, they are forcing some of their unpalatable policies onto labor (such as the carbon tax) which is causing them a huge collapse in support.

However, as you mentioned, the loss preferences will change a landslide into an obliteration. So I believe that Labor will not have the intestinal fortitude to follow through with their threats.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 3:51:55 PM
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