We have posted a thousand posts about this subject.
Yet it never gos away.
I have a question, and can not ignore some, from within the party I am a member of,have been convicted and imprisoned for this crime.
How can any human do this.
Forgetting the child is a human who after suffering these horrible acts will one day, if they do not kill them selves as a result, stand eye to eye with them.
And how? can a man of God keeper of the faith,do this.
Why do we constantly hear evidence some knew, had been told, someone under their control was a danger to children.
But failed to act.
Surely Pedophilia can never be defended.
Just as surly as we imprison people for traffic fines we let such offenders walk out of courts, we should consider judging our selves, we fail children everyday.

Church child abuse has been going on for decades
and all the Victorian government is doing is calling
for a Parliamentary Inquiry? Why not a Royal Commission?

A Parliamentary Inquiry is not going to be given evidence
against the Church by the Church - that goes back for decades.

A Royal Commission would have been able to force the
Church to hand over evidence with the threat of very
severe sanctions if that wasn't done. Instead they're
going soft on this issue - and giving the Church a
way out.

The abuse of children is horrendous and intolerable
and the failure of the Church to deal with it effectively
has done immeasurable damage to the victims (and to the
church).

The cover-ups, the protection of abusive
clergy, and the refusal to admit egregious mistakes
are unjustifiable. We haven't even begun to calculate
the damage these crimes have done to people's trust
and to the reputation of the Church. Law has simply moved
these abusive clergy from parish to parish, thus giving
them access to new victims.

A Royal Commission should be demanded and given in this case!

All true Lexi, and I despair at the almost daily news about it world wide.
Yes it seems the Church,all of them, with special mention of Catholic is the worst.
Or is it?
Century's of ignorance, of head turning, even in my party.
I blame us, those who never would even consider doing such a thing.
But who too, often, refuse to believe a child calling for our help.
And who often, even cover the crime,rather than be embarrassed? by its uncovering.
Just maybe the victims who choose to end their lives take the easy path.
I feel humanity lacks the will,very guts, to take the evil head on.
We too often turn away rather than confront such issues.

Well the thing that I fear, loath actually, has already taken place.
The Crime is unforgivable, every single time.
Never acceptable ever.
In my view one never to be forgotten or forgiven.
Best I can do is make a spot,supervised in my life for an offender,but not trust again.
I have such an offender in my family, one I once loved, very much.
But we gloss over it.
Tony Abbott,with no doubt a committed Catholic and believer, has called for the Church not to be held accountable.
If we let our Ostrich habits cover the death and suffering.
Or the very nature of this crime, even yes the forced weddings of young children, we are lessor for it.
I am sorry for raising the issue, assume the position folks head in the sand children at risk.

Yes, a most excellent post *Lexi Pexi* with good support from *Belly*

As I have made my views on this matter quite clear on a number of occasions, including the call for retrospective laws and corporal punishment for the offenders and those who have covered up for them, I will not overly re-iterate them except for this.

Why does it surprise you given the history of this place?

This country, and the genocidal crown of england, have a very long and dark history of dark deeds including the abuse of children which remains to this day.

To mention but a few, we have the abuse of children from england in the early days of transplantation and invasion.

We have the categorisation of the *Original Australians* as animals and the following wholesale genocidal practices, including, but not limited to, rape, pillage, murder, theft, slavery, the poisoning of wells and the "gifting" of pox infected blankets.

In more recent times, we have the theft of children and the destruction of families, even in the post WWII period which makes the current head of state guilty as well in my opinion, as by her hand did some of this most foul legislation come into force, and no doubt had a significant bearing on her blocking the arrest of *RatSinger* in recent times, so as to avoid a legal precedent which could in turn encapsulate her as well.

I recall the words of a self confessed black hearted torey on lateline in the late 90's re: the illegal invasion of Iraq who said something like:

" ... it's legal if the parliament says its legal. ... "

..

And, post WWI, we have the refusal of the ugly Australian guvment to recognise the equality of all people and races which no doubt played a not insignificant role in the decision of the Japanese to become aggressive.

..

Thus, whilst shocking and disturbing, to me it is not surprising.

And even though it is little shown to us, currently, the terrible mental harm inflicted upon the Asylum Seeker children and others.

Now, for you *Belly* having pointed out the suicide that has occurred in the aftermath of the activities of the pedophiles, in some cases this has come about as a result of trauma induced mental illness. In principal, it is the same thing to me.

Thus, considered from a legal perspective, if we as a society chose to go after "child abusers" in all of their forms, and noting that to me at least it is a crime so heinous as to be worthy of having no statue of limitations in terms of time, this would result in a situation which would keep the current court system busy for years and years and would likely require whole new buildings and specialised practitioners for same.

..

Of course, the establishment is well aware of this, and despite their crocodile tears and protestations, their actions and lack thereof clearly, to me at least, indicate that they do not wish to be held to account.

Again, the solution in my view, is not to vote for either of the main 2 parties, as as they have had ample time to correct these problems and have not, clearly it is because they do not wish to do so.

Dear DreamOn,

Could you please refer to me simply as "Lexi."
Thank You.

Why? I like nicknames, for example:

*Foxy Loxy*

*Pork Belly*
(and the swimming pool or dam may be a good option in that regard)

and so on.

Jesus made his view clear on the issue. He said 'But whoever shall offend one of these little ones who believes in Me, it would be better for him that an ass's millstone were hung around his neck, and he be sunk in the depth of the sea.'Mathew 18:6.
The sad part is that with the flood of porn the abuse levels will and are rising drastically. PLenty in denial though just as we see from those who opposed the intervention in the NT. It seems like our first people are treated second due to politics and culture. Castration should be mandatory for repeat child sex offenders. How many have done time inside and reoffended. Catholic church is easy target and I am last to defend the church I disown. They are singled out however in a much wider problem. ABC reporters, Labour members, Liberal members, scientist, cricket umpires and the arts all have their share of molestors.

Aaah *Runner* finally something that we can agree upon.

Though when I was younger I can freely admit to viewing the odd porn movie, now, I have to agree, it is a vile industry, in that, there is often, if not predominately, all manner of abuse and lack of opportunity which turns the participants to its "evil embrace."

Consequently, if we collectively did not choose to procure it, then the industry would dry up.

Hmmm .. certainly some of my experiences in the 3rd world were disturbing in the latter periods.

..

My first *Luver,* sexually speaking, and N.American girl, began my education in this area, as there we were in a Japanese Love Hotel, wherein, in addition to the beautiful colours, hot tub, mega bathroom and huge revolving bed with climate and entertainment controls, were all manner of gadgets and pornography.

..

In exasperated shock and somewhat to my initial bewilderment, my partner raced all around and removed the offending material from site by securing it one of the available storage cabinets before turning her attention back to us:

(and talk about Luving me High with those American thighs, but alas ... ssshhhhhh ... )

Dream On while each and everyone of us diverts threads, it is my view this one has enough in it to stay on track.
I agree with Lexi, she has every right to want to be addressed that way,I do not care what you call me.
I lost it in my last post, guilty.
I read on this subject very often, it hurts so very much.
While a bachelor now living alone my life has been one of noisy kids by the tens my mind still sees them as those kids,even in my dreams.
One of those is the offender mentioned earlier, I can not forget that.
Yet tens of thousands of children are suffering today.
And we seem unable to confront it.
Oh we shout threaten say what we would do,but words are just leafs falling from a tree to rot.
A worker in a COE child care center said *we always gave excuses to a boy to the policeman for a weekend*
All knew he was a sexual predator, mid 50,s but why?
Priests can almost rely on not being even sacked after chains of victims.
Few, if any, want to talk about Banjos concerns about young girls 12 or 14 and I get emotional.
We are not acting just mumbling words that are no help.

The line between offender and perpetrator is not always clear. Some victims of child abuse grow up and abuse children in their turn. It is not simply an act committed by evil people. It is a cultural practice which continues from generation to generation.The continuity must be interrupted.

In the Brisbane Courier Mail from time to time there are pictures of pre-adolescent girl all gussied up with makeup and sexy garments so they may prticipate in beauty peagents. This is not classed as pornography, but it can be immensely damaging. My daughter was a happy child. However, she was an early developer and was the first in her class to develop a bosom. She got teased about and said to me, "I have been happy being a child, and I don't want to leave it." I felt good and bad hearing that. She is now a grown woman with children that she loves, but I remember a happy little girl.

Let children be children, and don't make them into sex objects.

Belly you raise an interesting question

And how? can a man of God keeper of the faith,do this. He can't, not anymore than a man representing his workers spends thousands of workers money on prostitutes and luxuries. Have you not read in your old days (ie when you were a believer) that it was men of cloth that Jesus spoke to that knew nothing about God let alone knowing Him personally. That is why it was largely 'men of cloth ' that had Christ crucified because He exposed their ignorance of God. Pell did a good job of displaying this ignorance on Q & A. It was men of cloth that had many of the reformers put to death for challenging their rotton system. Men of cloth are not exempt from the adamic nature anymore than the high priests of atheism.

Runner, while not alone, look at the strange and self indulgent post of Dream On you hide the truth, dreadful as it is, behind a few politicians and the son of blow fly union thief.
Davidf,while telling us a wonderful story of his love for his daughter, a seemingly wonderful person, steps around this issue.
The inquiry we talk of is about molestation within the Church.
In Victoria.
And sadly its covering up.
ANY ONE? see attempts to do just that here?
Come now would you runner, Dream On think my thread is about covering up my party or those linked to its wrongs?
Do you see my great pain at a man I held in my arms the night after his birth,after finding him in a chook pen, and loved!
Who became a pedophile? the pain in never again right wrong or bigoted ever being able to trust or love or forget?
I return to that question that upset you runner.
If the Christ I once followed was here this day.
If we stood before him.
What would he think of your defense of the indefensible?
As I made it clear I want no part of heaven, would he further condemn me for this?
*How come so very many Servants of the Church, more in my view than any part of humanity, betray you*
In truth I am sorry so early in a thread we saw proof these crimes get buried and children continue to suffer.

Belly

You obviously ignored my first response. Christ would say the same as He did 2000 years ago. Unlike man He does not change.

I repeat again for your sake. Please read

Jesus made his view clear on the issue. He said 'But whoever shall offend one of these little ones who believes in Me, it would be better for him that an ass's millstone were hung around his neck, and he be sunk in the depth of the sea.'Mathew 18:6.

The Priest should be treated the same as the politician or the ABC reporters or the cricket umpires or the scienctist. How much clearer can one be.

The inference that I hide the truth is very untruthful which you have a tendency to do when referring to my posts.

http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/predatory-and-heartless-priest-jailed-for-sex-assaults-on-girls-20120419-1x8xf.html
I wounder if this man is a trade unionist?
Or a member of the ALP?
I too wounder if he shares the pain I do after hearing about him.

Hi there BELLY...

I couldn't agree with you or others more. The only 'instrument' available in a matter as abhorrent and loathsome as this, is a full ROYAL COMMISSION.

Where there's complete and wide ranging power(s) available, in order to compel, coerce, and command, any witness to furnish the Commission with answers. And to provide any evidence of a kind, that may assist and thus further the Commission with their enquiries.

Including, the production of any article, document, picture, or photograph, that is deemed material to the terms of reference, for the successful conduct of the Royal Commission.

Non-compliance and contempt, should attract the heaviest of penalties.

Gee, if we can't even protect our young, well...?

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/13470842/lawyers-want-national-church-abuse-inquiry/
The link came as a result of the case in the link above, from Lawyers it is nearly a plea for that Royal commission.
I fear o sung wo we are not able to fix much.
Any issue we bring up is the scene of attempts to protect even cover the crime or wrong.
Just for a second,let us understand the fear of the victims.
Let us think of the victim as our child/grandchild, it should make no difference,but sadly for some it would.
Churches built a fence around sex, even now wants a say in our bedrooms.
We in my childhood, while these crimes took place unchecked, heard from the Church sex was the original sin.
Do some of these offenders even believe in God?
Are some just looking for contact with kids?
Do we care enough to stop it?

Belly,
I do not think there is a need for any inquiry or Royal Commission.

We already know 'kiddy fiddling' takes place, there has been enough evidence to well and truely establish that. All that an inquiry does is delay the process of government taking tougher action.

Your link show the priest only gets 5 years non parole. With time already served he will likely be out in 3 years. Then there are those that knew about his activities and did nothing. There is aidding and abetting a crime and it is a crime to have knowledge of a crime and not report it.

These laws already exist, so just make them more severe and charge the accomplishers as well. Nothing difficult about it.

Before Dreamon critisizes Aus too much, he should have a look at what kids endure in other cultures. Incest and pedophilia are normal in some, some are sold into slavery and prostitution. Traficing in kids is common and in Niogeria recently a baby 'factory' was discovered where babies were produced and sold to be sacrificed in a black magic occult.

All we need are politicians who are willing to insist on enforcing our laws.

Dear Banjo,

You've missed the point completely.
You can insist all you like as far as
politicians and the law go. However
only a Royal Commission has the power
to force the Church not to sweep things
under the rug. And this is what must be done
and hasn't been done - thus far.

Hi (again) Belly...

Of course you're perfectly correct, and you'll not get any arguement from me. Do we, any Pollie, or anyone at all, have the necessary 'wherewithall' to really do something about this, that's effective ? Hold a Royal Commission ?

No, of course they won't. All we ever do in Australia (sadly), is talk, talk and more talk...and still more talk, with a few promises thrown in.

And still the children suffer.

I was in the coppers for many years. Offences against children were occuring (unabated) then, just as they are now. Still, those with all the power and influence (of either political party), simply talked, thus nothing happened, and nothing was done.

This Parlimentary Inquiry, will not achieve it's objective. Despite all the goodwill of those participating. The guilty will manage to 'slither' away, ad nauseam. And still they'll talk ?

God help the children. For as sure as hell, we can't......or should I say, we won't ?

Lexi,
I agree with o sung wu. If I thought an inquiry or Royal commission would achieve anything I would totally support it.

There was a Senate inquiry into the 'Forgotten Australians' do you recall? They got an apology but I have yet to see charges laid for the abuse. There was also an inquiry held in relation to FGM in 1994 and the outcome, education. 18 years later and the incidence is increasing.

The politicians only worry about retaining power, there are very few like John Hatton who are prepared to rock the boat. An inquiry just fools the public into thinking they are doing something. Gives time to let the issue pass.

A government is stupid to order any inquiry if they know not what the outcome will be. Could be embarrassing.

I doubt very much if many records exist of why clergy were transfered from one place to another, in any of the churches. How many clergy would claim they cannot recall?

Frustrating for police to do all the work and see the perpetraitors walk away or get off with a wrist slap.

Good day o sung wo Lexi Banjo.
Well first o sung wo how could I not agree your words are my own, and the pain that generates is hurting.
Banjo ok but again, do not ever underestimate to costs of imprisonment.
I do, firmly, think pressure is put on our courts right now to not send as many to prison.
Consider too at the other end,nothing to do with law and punishment, some walk out of those prisons long before they should.
Lexi while those against Royal Commission have a point, little of worth may come from it I agree with you.
First we unlike other country's currently do not have the power to hold the Church responsible, we would get that.
Each generation ,for hundreds of years, has known about this, we MUST NOT EVER over look Banjos thoughts!
If we walk around them,because we fear the implications of offending followers of another faith, we are complacent in the crime, it happens here, is in fact being demanded by some as a right even a law!
In the end, is our generation, todays living humans, up to being the one that puts an end to ANYONE from ANY WALK of life walking away free from a crime that can not be forgiven.
Consider this, every attempt to name pedophiles list them is confronted by human rights advocates who, are never there for the victims.

http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/whatsnew.html
I can not walk away from this one.
We all should not.
Could have posted page after page of links just in our country.
Libraries of them from world wide
Runner have you reconsidered your views?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country
When will we act.
Will we ever
What right have we to complain about child brides in another belief if we let this go

Hi there...BELLY,LEXI and all the other good folk, who are rightly mortified at the very breadth and dimension, of these abhorrent crimes occasioned against, one of the most defenceless groups within society, our children...

My only comment - don't 'screw yourselves up' on this issue. It'll only tear you apart emotionally if you allow yourselves to dwell on these dreadful crimes.

This crime, in fact ALL crimes, can be dealt with most effectively. Provided, three departments of Government totally fulfill their obligations to the community.

First: ALLOW police to exercise all their powers;

Second: DIRECT the judiciary to impose sentences that truly reflect the wishes of the broader community;

and

Third: IMPROVE and REDRESS some of the appalling standards and conditions that exist in some of the State's gaols. And having done so, turn gaol back into gaol, and this means, the re-imposition of meaningful standards of DISCIPLINE, both for the prison officer and the inmate, simultaneously.

In my humble opinion, these measures may well go a long way in decreasing the level of criminality and recidivism in the community.

Of course, we all know that none of these initiatives will ever be implemented. As they simply doesn't suit any political expediency ?

Belly

Runner have you reconsidered your views?

Which view is that? Jesus words towards those sinning against kids or the fact that I find child abuse abhorent or the view that pornography fuels this perverted act often. Which view would you like me to reconsider Belly?

Runner you know I agree with every one of those totally.
I was unhappy with the introduction of Labor politicians into this thread.
I refrained from linking to this very days HORRIBLE two story's, make it three 12 year old girl.
3 year old grandchild.
leave the 14 year old out.
o sung wo agree the lot yes I am emotional,but have seen the results.
I can not stop being angry about this.
And the fact you are quite right, not enough votes for any party to act.
I can never drop my concerns.
No perpetrator should walk free for 10 years at least.

Belly,
I have read your links and am quite astonished at the world lists on wikipedia. Also the number of recorded offenders that 'Broken Rites' has listed in Aus. It is even worse than the Forgotten Australians report.

I found they listed some offenders from my local area which apparently were kept quiet. I had some friends who went to church schools that told me about some particularly harsh Brothers and nuns.

One thing that does surprize is that Broken Rites does not show records of any female offenders and one would expect there to be a few.

I still do not know what an inquiry would likely uncover as Broken Rites seem to have it well documented, but if you think it worthwhile I would not oppose it. Looks like the churches are experts in keeping the lid on adverse activities.

Like the Forgotten Australians the evidence of the victims would be distressing reading.

The offenders are just the ones that should be protecting the kids. The parents, many on low incomes, struggled to sent their kids to the schools only to place them at risk. They would be heartbroken and their faith solely tested.

Banjo over the last few threads I have put up an idea is growing.
Note in this one we each share the view no real outcome is possible.
That just simply distresses me.
Because it is true.
Here is the skeleton of my idea, if we contributed enough to this site I could underline it!
Groups like getup are party Parisian, any one can take this idea and run with it, take it if you can make it work.
How about a strictly enforced non party on line site that runs what is the word for list to be presented in Parliament?
On such issues, yes been done but not party , asking both sides to act and publishing their replies.
Peoples plebiscite?
This could be high on the list.
Yesterdays grand father and 3 year old?
Are we human?
Lets not overlook the costs of running this site and if we can help do it.
We get to tell our thoughts in return.

Belly,
After reading the stories from Broken Rites I was quite depressed and it reminded me of the Forgotten Australians and the Little Children are Angels report from the NT. I wonder how much abuse goes unrecorded and unreported.

We actually need strong political leadership to do anything about these things. I am very cynical about politicians.

However it has made me appreciate my childhood and upbringing. A large family (8) and poor, but we always had plenty of food, plain but plenty. Hand me down and repaired clothes were the norm. We had warm clean beds to sleep in, never felt unsafe, and any ailments were seen to. In fact my parents whole being was devoted in caring for us kids. It was practical love.

When I read about other kids, I realize how fortunate we were.

Hi there BELLY, BANJO, and RUNNER...

All the years that I was in the police force, I was astonished at the sheer number and the very breadth of those vile creatures who perpetrate these dreadful crimes.

I believe (and I did possess some good empirical evidence at that time), that even a notable member of the judiciary was committing these offences, abroad.

There was some very strong opinions circulating within the job, that a couple of police members were also involved in offences concerning child pornography.

Personally, I don't believe this dreadful crime is limited to any specific demographic. Rather, it's (amazingly) very wide spread indeed. And there is no area within the community that is totally immune to this type of abhorrent behaviour.

Remember folks, knowing someone's guilty is all well and good.

You MUST be able to prove it in a court of law. And that burden of proof, is very high indeed

Banjo o sung wo yep all true.
And while I fired a shot over the bows of runner for diversion I am sorry I did.
Lets be honest it is not one group.
I understand your thoughts o sung wo, I had many country town cops as mates, played football with many too.
As a result will always question the courts.
Know of one judge no names who committed such crimes.
I focused on the Victorian thing because, Priests/Ministers are even for me, said to be our moral guides.
I just can not bring myself to understand why they, in big numbers, commit this act.
No issue, as bad as this, should be considered unfixable
yet even I know the task is near imposable.
But if we made it too big for politicians to ignore?

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-catholic-churchs-secret-sex-crime-files-20110906
I know, I truly do, still have the Bruises,targeting one group within many is seen as unfair.
How then do we address the problem?
In my research I found many such story's as this link tells us about.
Even worse, from country's all over the world,same church same victims.
Do you know one of those links, a seemingly well respected one, told me Catholic Priests are 100 times more likely to offend this way than any other.
I think I could name many, one a contender.
Can I ask, is the no wedding thing in part a reason?
Can it be true that some join this church for close contact with victims.
Do others see,in my links an open admission that we many of us, protect at all costs the good name of our priests? even some times at cost to our child.
I a non believer, can not getaway from at least this from my Christianity days.
Some how still, I look to the Church, every one of them,for our Moral grounding.
It is not this, but evidence I saw in the 1990s that saw me leave?
now, still not able to not ask, can some of these truly be believers?

this is such an undeniable event that is happening for so many years that is like a taboo that has not been seriously taken into account of the offenders have not suffered appropriate consequences of their actions becasue the people who should be in charge of giving such punishment is "blinded" by the severity of the situation. i just do hope that this would be taken into account because the people are losing their trust to the church and this would lead to more problems in the future.

I suspect that as they still broadcast *RatSinger,* notwithstanding the fact that were it not for the intervention of the genocidal crown that he would have been arrested for his alleged part in the cover up of pedophilia in England, that the politicians intend to do very little.

The problem in part at the moment includes that fact that the mainstream is full of papists and something like 25% of Australians are followers of this perverted faith.
..

*Belly* my friend, I do not believe that it is unreasonable or contrary to the rules to expand this thread with a broader consideration of child abuse in general.

As for nick names, it is in good Spirit (usually) that I do this, but I will review the rules as it may indeed be a departure.

As for *Lexie Pexie/Foxy Loxy,* to me it is arguable that whilst it is permissible to change one's handle, it is also reasonable given the public nature of these debates for everyone to be aware and have the opportunity to read the entirety of an individuals views.

In your case though, I may have to consider an apology if it is something that offends you, and you request it.

As for me, I get addressed in a range of ways and it is of no concern to me and usually only adds to my mirth.

..

Thereafter, I am in favor of retrospective laws and to hunt the child abusers down, try them and lock the guilty up for the rest of their days with few exceptions post corporal punishment.

..

That is not to say that Australia is not relatively better than other countries in some ways, however, that is no excuse for the crimes against humanity that have been perpetrated here, particularly as by not correcting the injustices of the past, the state does in effect condone and perpetuate them.

I am concerned with the elevation of the political consciousness of Australians, and also that which I perceive to be the injustices of the present including those which have roots in the past.

Skyj welcome, I agree, and it pains me.
I have a theory, maybe we live too much within our owh familly group unit and careless than we once would have.
It may have grown from our well known she will be right mate.
Or as it always meant *Let some one else fix it*
Power breeds corruption, and cover ups.
This is so rank, so vile, some one with drive could win government, just on this issue.
We talk briefly about increasing apathy, but few can be bothered to get involved, pun intended but true too.
While not a believer,I blame in part the bad fruit in the Church,the covering up of this issue.
And strangely yes I blame the decline of belief for our lack of attention to this issue.

Skyj wrote: “i just do hope that this would be taken into account because the people are losing their trust to the church and this would lead to more problems in the future.”

skyj,

Losing trust in the church and other figures of authority will lead to fewer problems. One reason church pedophiles and other pedophiles have gotten away with it is because people have had too much trust. Father Lynn mentioned in the Philadelphia court case was charged with covering up criminal pedophiliac crimes. He lied to the victims and victim’s families about offending priests being prevented from future contact with children. People believed him, and apparently nobody checked to see if the priests had actually been properly dealt with. Father Lynn apparently thought his lying was justified as he trusted that what he was doing was for the good of the church. When the judge pointed out that his attorneys were paid by the church and in the case of a conflict of interest between their client and the church would likely favour the interests of those who paid them. He refused to get an opinion from another lawyer as the judge recommended.

One of the faults I see in Australia is too much trust in authority and belief in what authority says. Young men have gone to war and died without question or reason because they were told they were doing good by serving the country.

Distrust and we will have fewer problems in the future because those in authority will be brought to account quicker when they abuse that authority.

Belly wrote: ” And strangely yes I blame the decline of belief for our lack of attention to this issue.”

Belly,

What you have told us of your own history denies your statement. You have lost your belief. If you still had your belief you possibly would have been less likely to start this string as you might have believed that the church would somehow make things right without outside intervention.

I think your loss of belief has encouraged you to pay attention to this issue.

David I did not have a day that saw my belief lost ,it was stolen from me, by the reality that this could live in ANY church or belief such as this breeds.
Mate I do not mind but you can not think for me.
You see those American TV cash registers? sorry evangelists?
I over heard my minister talking of the PERSONAL FINANCIAL BENEFIT in being in control of a church.
Live on his analog phone, he could not know it was over heard.
A straw on top of a thousand others.
BUT I too ask, how can a CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM, any leader hide these things.
Time to make some predictions,have washed my Vegemite jar turned it up side down.
After peering into it these things came through, we will be seeing more threads as this inquiry grows.
More such crimes are taking place right now.
We will take decades to stop it.
As the glass is taken away David I think you and I should grieve,for lost decency and those kids.
Are we human? some of us no!
Thanks however for showing me you too care.
Some Church's are putting more in to stopping same sex weddings than stopping this.

Belly,
I too lost my faith at an early age.

I came to the conclusion that the christianity I was taught as a child was not practised by many adults who claimed to be christian.

Very few, including clergy, actually tried to follow christs example or teachings. I also saw little kids with all sorts of ailments and wondered what sort of a god would allow this. While the true bastards in society seemed to sail through life without problems. The liars and cheats get away with it.

Anyway we just have to keep plugging away at these issues and any progress is slow. The Forgotten Australians did finally get the apology they were seeking, an acknowledgement of wrong doing.

Strange and deceitfull arguements being put forward. Any honest person knows that the true Christian faith has always been based upon the Lord Jesus Christ being the One to be trusted. All humans have a flawed nature. Any person making themselves to be god whether it be a scientist or a Priest displays the self righteous pride that is abhorent. Watching Q @ A the other night it was obvious that the secularist high priest was very flawed in intellect and character while the Catholic church's representative was atrocious. Christ on the other hand has no flaws.

Dream On no lets continue to try to build on a restart, Lexi did not hide, she even I and a few others briefly became refugees from a poster not the forum.
I at least was wrong to twice spit the dummy.
Banjo, rather your post than runners, no offense meant runner I think many Christians are good folk.
But that it lives now for control.
I think this thread questions the faith of at least Catholics, the non Christian one I dare not name,and the one of my birth.
Ill treatment of Children is not confined to Church's.
I am aware of the popes crime, only word to describe it in my view.
And refrained from posting links to Irish Priests castrating boys, covering up crimes against them.
Tell me, please do not convict me for asking, how can/could anyone telling us Christ loves the little children do this?
Let the good and the strong in every faith not be afraid to act for the sake of their church and faith.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2821202/posts
For get me, my questions my feelings.
This link has questins that deserve a read.
If only to hear the victims voices.

http://cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com/topic/853
Well yes another link, but just look at the numbers that have been charged just in America!
While not a nice thought Many will share my view of the cartoon type representation and words in a page one show.
sad but needs the exposure.
Night all sleep well.
Some will not, ever again.

Here in OLO, maybe up there in the Articles section,some understand human psychology far better than me.
Lets face it most do.
But not just here but for years I have shaken my head in pain and rage at such crimes.
In another forum,many years ago,a person defended child sex.
I was pleased as he got gored verbally.
But why do we, defend the indefensible.
Some understanding, but not forgiveness,for mums defending her kid.
Dad too,usually it is in private,at home they drop the pretense.
But we institutions and even the law or lawmakers do endemically defend the awful.
I think,strange? yes I even find it so? but while no God in my view ever existed.
I think some, maybe all need that fence around our actions and thoughts.
I understand these crimes have been around for hundreds of years.
And in my view so to has the decline of the Church.
So in my view Church's are about power and control, both wrong in my view.
And a moral fence around our behavior,but failing.
Needing that propping up that hidden truths.
What will our future be when we watch Christianity weighed down by its faults more than lifted by its goodness fall?
It will without redirection fall, maybe it already has.
Continuing to post links will not further this cause it will change nothing but it at least may take us out of the she will be right mate slumbers.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8460833/no-smith-apology-for-alleged-abuse-victim
Not trying to breath life in to an old thread.
But welcome readers to look at it.
A story that hurts, yet proves my claim/belief for century's we have seen crimes covered up.
Had this, high member of the NSW Government, been a Labor member?
The SCREAMING and abuse would rattle our very roofs.
A victim, one of many, a guilty plea lodged , abused by a high ranking NSW Government member?
interested in commenting SM?

Some Protestants have the idea the Catholic Church is the anti Christ.
I never held that view, still do not.
But am shaken by tonights ABC 2 Documentary *deliver us from evil*
I heard much of it before, and other such things.
But have come to the conclusion that this Church, without extreme change will fall apart and soon.
I saw tonight a Church that knowingly willingly betrayed its members.
Without change the dismantling of this Church will leave the world a better place.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/sex-investigation-casts-shadow-on-troubled-order-20120512-1yjfq.html
Had this story been about a political party.
Any one, any country.
Had it been an Australian one, about a party here.
Or about a union.
We know how big it would be.
I have no hate for the Catholic Church, any true main stream Church, oh I question them all.
I question the very values of another.
But is it not clear we are beginning to see the death, of at least this form of the Catholic Church.
To even consider why humanity so committed to freedom and equality is not standing together on this, century's old, issue hurts.
A Church demanding men not have sex woman too, must bring some times the wrong people to it.

Well *Belly* my friend, as you may expect me to say, whilst the red or the blue of politics may be unwilling as a majority to act in a really decisive way to hunt down and bring to justice all of the alleged abusers and also those who allegedly aided and albeited them, their are others who are on the public record who have expressed the intent of doing exactly that.

Thus, it calls into question our values does it not?

I am reminded of a speech by *Carmen Lawrence* in Freo many years ago visa the Asylum Seeker issue when she said something like:

" ... whilst I personally feel for these people, you cannot ask us to commit electoral suicide. ... "

Of course, I chimed in with a quip which went something like:

" ... Well, vote for *Bob Brown* He'll fix it. ... "

and did that get the minders up front all hissing and spitting, HaHaHa, and made for great hoots of laughter amongst my mob in the aftermath.

...

Quote *Albus DumbleDoor*

" ... The time is coming when we must all choose between what is easy, and what is right. ... "

Dream On came to read your post and may as well add this thought.
While browsing found the story of the Mafia don and the bones of others,his victims? with him
In a wall in Vatican city.
My read showed claims he may have kidnapped a 17 year old girl and killed her.
At the request of a Catholic Bishop!
Who knows the truth but a goggle search will bring many claims of church instigated murder by him?
An unhappy thing to consume.
further question include why was he laid to rest in a place kept for the holly of Holly's?