They shall grow not old
As we that are left grow old
Age shall not weary them
Nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun
And in the morning
We will remember them
Lest We forget.

(from "For The Fallen."
Laurence Binyon).

Come on people,

There is a little too much tiptoeing around on this.

O sung wu asked a straight forward question; “Is it a day for celebration ? Or should it be eternally consigned to that, of a day for fervent and deep reverence. Or, could it be both ?”

We are here on an ideas and discussion forum and yet there is an air of not wanting to unduly upset the more frenetic of our members.

OUG is taking a perfectly legitimate stance on the futility and cost of war and the questionable celebration of its ‘glories’, imagined or otherwise.

While I’m not in lock step with all he says I’m perfectly happy to hear his perspective. And there are plenty of people who would support and echo him.

Although he needs to speak for himself I’d wager OUG would have had little issue with the first years of commemorations where the bulk of the attendees were war widows and their children, deeply mourning their losses.

We should be under no illusion that the occasion has been appropriated by successive generations. Belly’s "It does not lessen the fact, those dieing did so for us." is an example. Alec Cambell, our last Gallipoli veteran put it remarkably plainly; "I joined for adventure. There was not a great feeling of defending the Empire. I lived through it, somehow. I enjoyed some of it. I am not a philosopher. Gallipoli was Gallipoli.".

A unionist for much of his life, “Alec Campbell participated in anti-war campaigns, became active in Labor politics, joined the Fabian Society, and became State President of the Australian Railways Union. He contested an election for the Launceston City Council. After the war he worked to assist the widows and families of veterans.”
http://australianpolitics.com/news/2002/05/02-05-24a.shtml

Cont..

Cont..

There is certainly no definitive Australian Culture. Belly’s or OUG’s perception of what it is would certainly differ from mine. What we need to is be accommodating of each other’s sense of what it means to be Australian and of what ANZAC day means to us.

I’m not saying the appropriations made by Belly’s generation or mine or indeed the one underway via our youth is a bad thing, it’s just we need to guard against claims of absolute ownership and of infections of heightened nationalism. Only a long departed generation, once numbed with grief and without graves to mourn beside, have that claim.

So to address the original question yes it more than likely will end up as both commemorative and celebratory for many people. Further I feel that impediments to our newest arrivals or our oldest inhabitants being part of the occasion should be legitimately explored.

Those who feel any discussion on the subject is taboo or inappropriate should best excuse themselves.

It is only one mouse button not clicked.

Those that want to celebrate ignore Gallipoli as it was not a WIN; it was a grave yard for our finest Austraian and NZ boys. It should always be, "we will remember them!" This includes those also who have given their lives to keep us safe and free.

For those who want to celebrate war, They have lost the abhorrence of war.

Lexi,
Thanks for posting the Ode.
Just one letter "contemn" meaning in the passing of time we will not despise them. We will be eternally grateful for their sacrifice.
A common rendering is "condemn" them.

Thank you LEXI, the 'Ode' does cause me to think and reflect on those who never returned.

And those who did who, hitherto were alive and vibrant, in fact full of life and energy, they did came home, deprived of their emotions,
feelings and conscience.

But when they did return, were mere shells of themselves, with weekly attendances at the various VVCS Centres. Where we talked about anything but, Malaya, Borneo and South Vietnam; our failed marriages and friendships, lost opportunities, and the loss of being able to effectively communicate with ordinary folk. With frequent bouts of heavy drinking and the subsequent violence that accompanies it. Thus occasioned upon others who simply didn't understand what all the fuss was about ?

Yes LEXI, the Ode is a very moving piece indeed.

R.I P. David Frank........ I'll always miss you. You survived FSB 'Balmoral','Coral' and finally languished in 'Dat Do' - but dead at 52 years, of a Brain Tumour. Couldn't be 'Agent Orange' - Our Politicians told us so ?