Dear Belly,

You wrote; 

"It does not lessen the fact, those dieing did so for us."

I'm pretty sure dying for you and I crossed the mind of very few of the Gallipoli ANZACs. 

Most of them were in it for the adventure, the travel, and the pay. Our lads got six times the pay of the British soldier even though a third of ours were born in England.

You must remember lot were I think the only volunteer army that served at Gallipoli. Plus this was the first time we stayed together as a force. In the past such as during the Boer War our men were usually hived off to other units.

That a volunteer army was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest through that horror and prove to be an effective fighting force whose men looked after each other should be something that we at this distance can be proud of and take inspiration from.

But dying for you and I?

Anyway...

Memoriam Notice 1923

FOTHERGILL In loving memory of our darling son and brother (Jack) who was killed in action in Gallipoli, 25th April 1915. Eight long years since you were laid in your lonely grave, darling Jack. The world has never been the same. No one knows how much I miss you, plucked like a flower in bloom, so bright, so young, so loving. It’s sad but true, the best are the first to die. Darling Jack, if only I could see your grave, I would die happy (inserted by your sorrowing parents, brother and sisters, R & I Fothergill).
The Argus (Melbourne) 25 April 1923

ANZAC is not about killing it is about the love that was shown by our boys in protecting those they loved, and freedoms and values we enjoy. In WWI and WW11 many of us had relatives in Europe whose lives were being threatened. It is true many individual operations were flawed but that is the blood and guts of conflict.

ANZAC is not about blame, or the blood and guts, but the attempt by our loved ones to protect our lives. In their attempt they lost their lives. "We will remember them!". Those that focus on the the WAR miss the point of ANZAC. The cry in not, "we will remember the war". Those that cannot grasp the commitment of our boys, perhaps would prefer to hail Hitler, ot serve the Emperor of Japan.

I had banished myself from this thread.
The post above mine bought me back, well said.
I do not celebrate war not glorify it.
I know, understand, if no one fought those two ww ones we would not be free.
And I know that with certainty, some want to blacken our remembrance.
I question this, how can any culture be respected, if ours too is not.
OUG, it ends, no more,others find your posts cute funny,informative as David f has.
I am no longer prepared to be kind.
Aware you tell us, you are proud to be different, I can not understand why haveing freed your Dutch ancestors you persist in talking of war mongers when few wanted to fight a war.
Maybe some day the aggressors will win, and write history,but ANZAC day is nothing like some charge it here
less we forget.

Dear Belly,

Some wars actually have preserved our freedom. It would be horrible to think of being ruled by the Nazis or Imperial Japan.

However, Anzac Day lumps the wars that have been necessary with those which have been fought for economic interests, chauvinism or other unworthwhile reasons.

I would like to differentiate the wars that should never have been fought by remembering those who have opposed such wars.

bellicaust/quote..is..""Aware you tell us,
you are proud to be different""

i dont say so with words
if people take that from them..thats their issue

belly i like you have life experience
but little formail education...im more intrested in what a word MEANS..that how its spelled...i know all the glory..hides that truelly gory!

i wish
all those MUTILATED..IN WAR
MARCHED WITHOUT THEIR PROSTESIS..

crawled
without their legs...the whole parade!

took out their fake jaws...fake eyes cheeks etc
dont hide the scars..let the watchers se the real cost of war!

[mate you got mates that 'pretend '..to look normal
yet the war scares are there..BE PROUD..reveal your baqttle wounds

one third vietnam dudes are dead
the rest homelss addicted..missfits

SHOW THE TRUE COST MR BELL!

""I can not understand
why haveing freed your Dutch ancestors
you persist in talking of war mongers...*when few wanted to fight a war.""

me either
if you save 'me'..i will thank you
my kids wont

""Maybe some day the aggressors will win,"""

lol

""and write history,""

lol

""but ANZAC day is nothing like...*some charge it to be..*here
less we forget.""

yes mr bell
but what is it we are not going to forget?*?*?

i think many have forgotten!*!*!
many still bear its HIDDEN cost

[just in visions lost]
let not the WHOLE..of this sordid story..be easilly over/glossed

war is hell
peace not pieces

I regret rejoining the thread, David f you have a point but it is short on substance.
It truly is you know the day started to remember ANZAC COVE and that landing.
Hence dawn service and date.
WW2 was included and for some time,Vietnam was not recognized .
Yet troops died there too, some conscripts.
You infer mate the day glorifies, it clearly never did.
anti war can be talked about in other threads clearly a question was asked here.
I can find no reason to try to convince OUG and have given up trying.
I will spend the day quietly,thinking about sacrifice.
And knowing, nothing we can do, will stop aggressors starting wars.
In fact what would have been the outcome in Lybia,if NATO had stood back.
Much worse than inactivity in Rwanda.