Queensland labor has always had strong support, and while Queenslanders were obviously looking for a change, it looks as though Labor is facing obliteration NSW style.

What has changed so drastically?

The answer is simple, Federal Labor happened, between the carbon tax lie, the pokies backflip, the boats, and the myriad of Labor policy disasters, the labor brand has the same cache as Enron, Tepco and other infamous organisations.

But the single greatest betrayal of the Australian Electorate is the broken carbon tax promise, that is going to put thousands out of work and increase the cost of living for everyone.

Queensland does not forget, and I will enjoy the humiliation of Labor on TV tomorrow.

After 20 yrs of Labor (or 'Liberal', or whatever) - I would not be surprised of any incumbent government's loss.

I'm with you SM, at last, an election won, not lost.

Don't expect much response from the labor die hards though.

I’m not sure that’s right, Shadow Minister. How strongly do people relate state Labor to Federal Labor, I wonder?

Are they really going to kick Bligh out because of Federal Labor’s perceived stuff-ups?

I can’t see it.

Bligh will go simply because her government hasn’t performed to the satisfaction of the people, as is the case with all governments after one or two terms, except for those who implement gerrymanders a la Bjelke Petersen.

The really unfortunate thing is that Newman has nothing significantly better to offer. But that doesn’t seem to matter to the Qld voters.

WA, NSW, VIC and QLD. People are slow learners but at least they are learning. Not to long to go for Illegitimate Federal Shamble.

"Don't expect much response from the labor die hards though."

Labor's own polling suggests that the attack on Campbell Newman backfired really badly, to the point of turning a loss into a rout. Not sure why the carbon tax would have much relevance.

SM as a one eyed conservative supporter I am sure your would like to relate the impending Labor disaster in Queensland to Federal Labor. I don't know that much about Queensland and the issues up there, but 12 months ago I did a lot of door knocking and talking and listening in my local electorate here in NSW for The Greens, spoke with and listened to literally hundreds of voters and the message was a very strong anti state labor. The electorate is discerning enough to divorce federal politics from state. having said that Federal Labor will need to pull a real rabbit out of the hat to win next time. As some poly once said "oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them."
Anyway one good thing about Queensland after tomorrow will be Belly will be able to have another long lament about his beloved ALP and how the party is getting it all together again.

I read this wonderful assertion from Tony Abbott in the Courier Mail today. It's almost as rich as Bob Hawke's suggestion that Queenslanders just don't understand how wonderful Anna Bligh is.

Neither of these non-Queenslanders seems to understand that, despite apparently being a bit slow and backward, we in Queensland have our own unique issues to deal with, and are quite aware of the terrible state of our politics. Hawke took it a step further and credited Ms Bligh with 'transforming' Queensland and, in particular, Brisbane. Is he not aware that her opponent is the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane, who must surely take more credit (or blame) for that transformation than Bligh? Is he also unaware that Queensland is a largely decentralised state? The gentrification and cosmopolitanisation (of that is even a word) of Brisbane means nothing to those of us who have to travel down a thousand miles of potholed, flooded highway to see it. To Mr Hawke I say that we are well aware of our premier's achievements, but we are also well aware of her failings. Sadly, the latter greatly outweighs the former.

Similarly, Mr Abbott fails to realise that the problems in Queensland extend far beyond a carbon tax imposed at the federal level. We may be a little slow up here, but we are generally well aware that nothing we can do at the state level will have any impact on that tax. I, for one, am looking forward to booting out our state Labor government for their own ineptitude. The feds can wait their turn.

3 years ago, Queensland Labor was also long in the tooth, but with a popular federal labor government, the state Labor government just managed to scrape in.

Today, While I have no doubt that the longevity of the Bligh government and its own errors would have ensured that the LNP won, it is not possible to ascribe the sheer magnitude of the swing to merely state issues.

Federal Labor's lies and bungling have turned a loss into a rout.

Rechtub you join Shadow Minister in what I see as an insult, in your case from a failure, to understand.
Today it is not about Canberra, not about carbon tax.
This thread, and one of spin docs, are aimed at gaining yet a few more votes, in the coming landslide.
Yes Labor is going to suffer, it won one too many elections.
And its current leader betrayed the faithful with her privatizations.
The other reason, surely reasonable folk can see, is to take some of the credit for federal Conservatives.
And take a huge mud pie to throw at Gillard.
Phoney and all, it is cute.
Not long ago Labor had all the states and Territory's, plus Federal government.
This will be the way it is again,today feeds change in the ALP.
Remember this, Federal politics has blinded many, but Abbott's three ring circus has used fear half truths and pea and thimble tricks to sell a bag full of nothing.
I highlight that Labor tragics as we are called at least understand, think, know, a fake when we see it.
Real tragedy here Rechtub is you have far too much confidence in your own views and far too little respect for others rights to differ.

I don't see what federal labor has to do with QLD.
QLD is miles behind the game, and people are searching. Not long ago all states were labor, so it's reasonable to see a change.
It's a matter of what can be done there that was not already being done, people may be just as disappointed in six months time as now.
If there is any reference to a tax that has not come into effect as yet, it will be because of tony and clives, scare campaign.
There are more important issues than treating an election as a referendum. That is saying the people are stupid.

Ar Belly, humble pie can be hard to swallow old mate.

I invite you to cast your mind back four odd years, when Labor in QLD lost the election, but didn't loose badly enough.

The par of that election I will always remember, was your reaction, as you could not hide your delight when labor won, as you reacted like a fat kid in a Lolly shop.

The sad part was that deep down, even you knew it was a terrible result, one that cost us our railway in the end, despite the assurance from the premier that that would never happen.

Lies seems to run in the family with labor leaders of late, doesn't it.

Well, lies catch up to you in the end, and JG will literally crap her pants when she sees the result in QLD.

I just hope she can't do to much damage in the next 18 months, or so, but then again, I, and many others said the same thing about QLD labor four odd years ago.

As for the LNP, I said all along that all that was needed was a decent leader and the voters would do the rest.

I also offered my 'I'll informed' opinion, in that we here in QLD finally had an option, the day that CN announced he was running for premier.

As usual, I was shot down, so this will make this victory that much better for little ol 'I'll informed' me.

Brace yourself Julia!

Belly,

Can you really put your hand on your heart and claim that federal Labor has nothing whatsoever to do with the massive swings in NSW, Victoria and Queensland? Are these all a huge coincidence?

If you are really able to exercise your critical facilities outside your party's spin, please do so now.

Continued
As for the carbon tax, it, like selling our (QLD) assetts, was based on a lie.

People don't like to be lied to, end of story.

Now unless you're blind Freddie, you will accept that this tax is a shocker, it will not make one scrap of difference to the environment, and after all, that's what the concern is about with carbon. Apparently!

It is little more than a permit to pollute, that the payees will simply pass on.

How that can be seen as clever, will be answered in the polls, with QLD being first cab off the rank.

State and federal labor are train wrecks, as they have turned our economies into crap, and while some think they may be clever, just try telling that to someone who can't afford to live anymore.

All the stats in the world mean little when compared to the huge hole in our bank account, thanks to labor.

The tax, in conjunction with the lies is what this is about.

Shadow Minister, I think you are rewriting history. The Queensland conservative coalition has always had leadership problems ever since Joh left. It was what killed them in the last election and probably the one before that.

The election has always bee the LNPs to lose, and this time they got a clear leader, but they had to get him not from the ranks of the already elected. Without Newman, they would still be stuck with the likes of Springborg, Seeney or Langbroek, which would be a rerun of the last election.

And you can't just see a landslide victory looming and then claim that it's a 'referendum' on a policy that you happen to not like. Noone has campaigned on it. In fact i have been struggling to see what it has been run on apart from 'Campbells a clear leader', 'We're not Labor', 'Don't worry about Campbell not getting in' and the anti- 'You can't trust Campbell'.

I heard nothing about a carbon tax anywhere. Maybe it's on the throwaway literature they insist on sticking in peoples letterboxes.

The proof will be seen in six months of CN rule, so don't build him up to much, it's a long way to the bottom.
CN is in favor of the tax, as long as he gets a bigger share. Corruption in the making.
In QLD that is not unknown, so be careful.
In vic the lib govt; wants to sell the arts centre now. The only way they no is to sell public assets.
Extreme weather events will continue and will be a cause for a lot of infrastructure, so keep your govt; on track and good luck.

Those within the ALP need to have a good look at the Party, see what it has become, see the direction it is heading in, and make a decision. The conservative element within the ALP has controlled the party for so long and to such an extent that it no longer represents the ordinary Australian as it once did, well, at least tried to represent.
To my way of thinking the party is terminally ill and the progressive members like Doug Cameron and Penny Wong just to name but two, should desert it. I can see the day when a truly progressive political party will form in Australia, made up of people committed to social justice with a sustainable future, committed, like old time Labor to a fair go for all Australians not just the privileged few.
Like the bloke who wont buy a sick horse, Australia wont buy a sick Labor Party. Must write a few more letters to Labor MP's, it all helps.

Belly, a few points if I may.

Firstly, it’s very curious that at as a rusted on ALP supporter, you would try to tell LNP supporters why they will vote today? You have absolutely no idea what motivates the LNP supporters. So rather than trying to tell us what you think, why don’t you ask?

Secondly, LNP support cares nothing for what you regard as LNP motivation, because at a predicted 28% ALP primary vote you would clearly be both wrong and irrelevant.

Thirdly, LNP supporters have absolutely no interest in speculating where the ALP went wrong, that my dear friend is your problem.

My kindest regards to you and to Julia,

Barry.

It's always the same scenario. Labor gets in, wastes all the funding, the hangers-on get worried & vote conservative to fill the coffers again, then back to the spending spree. Those who abuse & those who waste so callously are devoid of integrity. The lack of integrity was just so evident in the attacks on Newman. I for one hope it bites them in the butt today.

Belly, if you can smell a fake, how come you gave us both Rudd & Gillard. Did you have a cold for that long?

Paul if people like Wong are the answer for the future, the question must be, how to stuff up completely.

I would love to see her, & her mates start a new party, we need to watch another bunch of fools, like the Democrats implode, it's good fun.

If ever I need my lawn top dressed I'll call on Anna, she has proved herself good at spreading manure. Her attempt to cover Newman with slime showed us what she really is, nothing but a a clone of her vindictive predecessor.

Labor, RIP & good riddance.

Barry and, sorry spin doc and SM I understand typical Conservatives, [tea party Liberals] both are trained to spin.
Rechtub I understand too,he is not as aware of reality, but follows them along for the crumbs.
NSW Labor lost, massively, Labor voters, life long ones, voted for Liberals.
Nothing to do with Canberra, the rubbish bin SUSSEX street had turned post Carr Labor in to had become fly blown.
QLD saw poor leadership and campaigning beat the Libs, not Labor at the last election.
And it got worse for Labor,some impact of the Kevin Rudd mess, is going to be seen.
Take a breath, do some here want it to be known if my thoughts are not as theirs I am wrong? or silly? or maybe brain dead.
SM I can find nothing in your post history to like.
And less to respect.
You as is spin doc are my natural enemy's.
I FOREVER fight those who wish to tax the poor and give it to the rich, who regard truth as an obstacle to be lost in debate.
Rechtub? in telling me the insulting things you do, are you aware your dad thought like me?

Belly, I’m distressed to hear you refer to me as a natural enemy; I have no wish to aspire to being anyone’s enemy. I am comfortable with being an opponent, a challenger or fellow OLO debater but enemy? Surely not Belly?

One of the problems when you create an illusion and separate yourself from reality, is that there is a risk of believing your own illusion or your adopted illusion. It gets even more dangerous when large sections of the MSM reinforce your illusion because that takes you even further from reality.

Much as you might continue to protest that in your opinion, the unfolding disaster in QLD has nothing to do with the CO2 Tax, MMRT, Sussex Street, lies, broken promises, waste, national debt, border protection etc., this remains just your opinion.

If you were to actually ask LNP supporters rather than telling us, you might get some credibility? But no, you are right, your illusions are your reality and if we don’t share them we are your “natural enemies”.

The reality you must now face is that with about 28% primary vote, you are outnumbered by about 4:1. Stop trying to tell the majority of Australians and Queenslanders in particular that we are wrong because it is just possible it’s you.

Don’t take it out on the opposition; it’s really not our fault. We did not create your illusion, in fact we cautioned against it. We did nothing to sustain your illusion and fought hard against the MSM for misleading you. We tried very hard to present you with reality, just visit the thousands of reality comments in the OLO archives.

There is something you are still not getting. When you again bring in Bob Hawke to offer the ALP the “Last Rites” as with NSW, Vic and now QLD, you are beyond help. When you kid yourselves that those federal policies such as CO2 Tax and MRRT have no State relevance, when you ignore the relentless trashing of Brand ALP, when you believe the Canberra Press gallery that all is good, you’re finished.

Belly, I fail to see where I have insulted you, would you please enlighten me.

Spindoc, so this is all about Canberra. doesn't QLD have any policies.
surely if this is about Canberra, it doesn't say much about qld parliament.
Do you know who you are voting for or doesn't that matter. If people thought like that why do we need state parliaments for.
Then again QLD is somewhat different than the rest, to many Joe years.

too many Joh years..
579,
I suppose you're too young to remember when every other Australian aspired to move to Queensland because it was so good then. You now say Joh was not good for this state ? I tell you what's been proven to be no good for Queensland & indeed Australia, the ALP.

Will Captain Bligh go down with her ship? or will there be a mutiny on the Bounty tonight? In the deep north will the Mad Katter Party pull in enough red necks and good olde boys and win a seat or two? Has anyone realised Campbell Newman spelt backwards is Robin Hood but unlike the man from Sherwood Campbell intends to rob from the poor and give to the rich and keep on giving until there is nothing left. As for us Greens we better hide up a big tree and hope the conservative tide don't wash us away.

First Rechtub, Labor stooge offends me,if I was unable to see the faults, and call for better in my party, then it would fit me.
Spin doc, a few short weeks ago an ALP Hero stood by Rudd,and reminded us he loves fighting Torys.
I do too, it is your party that does actually want to take pension rises back, let miners off with super tax.
Not give the small business tax cuts.
Wants an end to boats but only its way.
Wants, no says it wants ,to turn the boats around at sea.
You and I could have a beer and talk but in the end we must confront each other.
I live for fairness and equity, your side for the rich.
Not the party your work place is named after Menzies , but a branch of American republicanism.
I offer this advice, to swinging voters, go now, to the Liberal party's national page, read it,judge it.
It shames the once Liberal party.
Paul 1405, tonight if greens do no better than NSW Democracy lives still in Australia.
All other party's must come to an agreement to isolate the greens ,even if we end preferential voting.
We should, let our votes count only once.

I'm surprised to see so little credit given to Campbell Newman in this thread. He has united the LNP and presented a capable and affable persona throughout the campaign. I doubt that the LNP would have won without him. That is why Labor conducted such a vicious campaign against him, and I cant say I'm sorry to see their effort backfire so badly.

Belly Showing your conservative colours there with this "All other party's must come to an agreement to isolate the greens" By all other parties I take it such wacko's as Rise Up Australia Party, Katter's Australia Party, Democratic Labour Party, One Nation, Family First Party, Shooters and Fishers Party, Christian Democratic Party, The Belly Party, Building Australia Party, No Parking Meters Party, Liberal Party, National Party, Australian Labor Party and if they are not still deregistered Grey Power!
Stop trying to use The Greens as the scapegoat for the failure that besets the ALP its all the doings of conservative party members who took the party in the wrong direction, now the ALP is reaping the rewards. I have met so many ALP members, union activists, that call themselves Labor but in truth their politics are so conservative on anything to do with social justice they are just right wingers who pretend or delude them self to think they are 'true believers'.

I could not believe my ears just a little while ago, as I watched the result of another Labor party venture into having state lady premiers.

This I believe, their 4Th effort has been, for the LNP coalition, the most successful yet. Yes this effort is going to produce a Queensland parliament with less than 10 labor members.

While discussing this result I heard Peter Beattie predict that another couple of ladies will become their leader & deputy leader, in the new parliament.

I have always felt that having stuffed up almost everything he touched, Beattie promoted Bleigh to succeed him, as he wanted someone even more incompetent than himself in the job. Anyone even reasonably competent would have fixed many of his blunders, highlighting how bad he was, but I did not realise he wanted to destroy his old party completely.

Surely now Labor will wake up to the fact that trying to buy the womans vote, with lady leaders will not work in the short term. If they want it to work they are going to have to recruit some competent ladies. It would not hurt if they found some competent men at the same time.

So that's 3 totally incompetent Labor governments down, now for us northerners, there is just one bottle red head to go.

Roll on next year, we just might get more Katter party members than labor, we almost did here.

And here comes Rudd.

Victorians used to always mock Queenslanders for calling their beer four X. Victorians used to say they called it XXXX because they couldn't spell anything else. Forget that our beer is called VB. After this Un-Australian liebour, Party, slaughter, I think Victorians should take a long hard look in the mirror to see who the stupid ones really are, The Liebour Party of fools almost retained their ability to thieve in Victoria. I guess all the smart Victorians that moved to Queensland years ago help a bit :)

Congrats to all Queenslanders for seeing through the bulldust and sending those lying jokers to the great political dustbin where they belong. Lets all hope the new broom sweeps better and that the bristles aren't just as course?

Now we must all unite to remove the Red Headed Witch From The West and her green slimy partners in crime from this once great land and restore prosperity for all again!

I wasn't going to comment on this thread simply because
when I read that Tony Abbott had said "the Queensland election
would be a referendum on the carbon tax..." and then this
thread popped up with the exact same title from Shadow Minister,
I thought why bother commenting. It's just going to be another
attack on Labor with few attempts at discussion and analysis.
Some posters did try to point out the fact that the state
election in Queensland was not being fought on federal issues
and that Labor would be struggling against an overwhelming
mood for change.

Not knowing the political situation of the state or the personalities
involved I thought it best to stay out of this fray.
However I am appalled by some of the very personal commentary made
about our PM . I know that things can get emotive
in the subject of politics - but referring to this country's PM
in such derogatory terms
demeans the office of the PM and does no credit
to a Forum based on social and political debate.

"""
but referring to this country's PM
in such derogatory terms
demeans the office of the PM
"""

The only person that degraded the office of PM more than anyone is the current Prime Sinister itself. It's nothing but a two bit lying piece of ____ fill in on the dotted line with any derogatory four letter adjective/noun you like.

If you want people to respect it, perhaps it could start by abolishing a tax no one wants, no one needs, which is based on complete falsehoods and which it told everyone it wouldn't introduce to win its place in Australian history as the biggest lying low life PM we've ever had!

An LNP victory is the best result for Gillard.
Let the voters take their anger out on the States and then see how they perform as an indicator of future Federal possibilities.

After O'Farrell's declining performance and growing litany of broken promises in NSW, the voters in Queensland will be able to get a taste of what could be in store nationally well before the next Federal election.

Watching sky news last night at the exit polls, the single most important issue affecting the vote was the cost of living. Next was government service, and third was the carbon tax. Given that the carbon tax is primarily a cost of living issue as well as being a trust issue, there is no doubt that the carbon tax was a significant issue for Queensland voters.

The most demeaning thing for the office of PM is to have a lying deceitful incumbent.

Lexi, no joy but please do not put your faith in voters.
I knew last night was to be as it is.
And spin played little part in it.
I live for the ALP.
And my union.
Because fundamentally they care.
Both know we exist in a whole world, our success will be found in our understanding, change and reform, MUST become part of our every day existance.
I am in it up to my chin!
But change so far, is only a word, one my party is not yet fair dinkum about.
Blame those who bought this about last night, QLD Labor.
But too, stop kidding your self, Gillard has one skill, no other is seen in public,she is good at keeping her team behind her.
And no use at all, in keeping the voters even informed,a switch exists, it flicks to off, people stop listening, as she starts to speak.
Only Tony Abbott,keeps her a float, for now.
Only Abbott gives Labor any chance, in Canberra.
Throw mud and some sticks.
Throw a Prime Minister out mid term,one such as QLDS loved Rudd, and its Labor blood in the streets.
Bill Shorten will lead the ALP not far in our future.
He,one day will be as popular as Rudd, he is as competent.
But first he must unite my party and convince the foolish we are far better than the manufactured headlines.
We, you and I must never stop supporting the best government Labor,but demanding that change too.
And if we try to turn a massive rejection in to a soft landing?
We too become spin doctors as is the case with a few here, let us not do that.

Labor came down hard in QLD, congratulations to CN, probably the worst thing is an out of balance parliament.
Lets hope he uses his new found powers to the good. He says he has the first 100 days worked out, i wonder if the rest of his side no about it.

It was also clear that one of the factors that increased the hurt for Labor was the nature of the campaign they ran. A very negative one without evidence to back it up. At the end they shifted to a "We'll probably loose but don't give them to much power" mesaage. After all the preceding spin and lies I suspect that message was lost.

I'm personally very pleased with the outcome but wondering if either side will learn from this. Voters are sick and tired of gevernments that talk about reshaping states andcountries but which seem to mostly make out lives harder. We are sick of the lies, sick of the spin, sick of the unfounded dirt throwing and directorships for party faithful.

Will the LNP be much better? I don't know, I hope so but only time will tell. They have a tough job ahead forming a good government with so many first termers but at the same time having so many new people might let them avoid some of the old entrenched political behaviours.

My hope is that the thrashing Qld Labor took last night is a powerful lesson to politicians else where, that those wanting to keep their seats might decide to work a lot harder to ensure good government trumps party values.

R0bert

In defeat, Labor figures still raving on about need to uphold its values.

I think the electorate see through rhetoric, and expects a solid policy mix based on existing policy realities which any smart party needs to adapt to and offer change that can appeal.

Carbon tax alone looks like one of biggest miscalculations ever, along with other factors.

I just hope that reform by LNP done in fair way, while addressing its legitimate concerns such as spending and boosting eco activity and so on.

A bit of irony about woman and politics. Labor has tried to promote woman into positions of leadership and ultimately into office, with all things being equal that must be a good thing. The only proviso is you do not promote simply based on gender, otherwise you disregard the potential of 50% of the population, and you may end up with the best of the worst choices. Do not know Anna Bligh or Julia Gillard by that was the case with Kristina Keneally in NSW, you could even end up with an Amanda Vanstone, fortunately this one never actually made it into office as the One Nation leader Pauline Hanson. That's not to say there are not some outstanding women in politics such as Christine Milne, Sarah Hanson-Young, Rachel Siewert, Penny Wright, Larissa Waters and my personal pick from an outstanding group of individuals Lee Rhiannon, To be fair there are also some very good men in parliament at the federal level,Richard Di Natale, Scott Ludlum, Adam Bandt and of course that great statesman of Australian politics Dr Bob brown.
The irony is in the 50's and 60's it was the women's vote that kept 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies in power, 'Pig Iron' believed a woman's place was bare foot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Takes all kinds.

Brisbane train station was a very busy place last night.

There was the early departure of the 8:15 pm ALP special, containing the entire ALP contingent of about seven MP’s. They were accompanied by zero Greens MP’s who had successfully managed to drive their support base to something less than zero. The departure board showed this train’s destination was “political oblivion” and all passengers appear to have one way tickets.

Shortly after this the first of the media trains left. The CH7, 9 and 10 train was packed with excided TV journo’s discussing the second installment of the $275m in taxpayer’s money for license fee rebates announced by Gillard last week. They are excited about their new business model, “cash for comment”. This trains destination was shown as “The ALP’s Pocket”.

The Canberra Press Gallery departed with much talk about the great ALP victory. The singing was led by Laurie Oakes with Kumbya as they returned to their home base of “Journalisms La La land” in Canberra.

The ABC train left last with the rail attendant complaining that all passengers we occupying only the seats on the left. They all refuted the attendant’s assertion with a series of 1,000 word essays.

The ABC’s representative, Kerry O’Brien, a man never lost for words was asked for his assessment of the election to which he replied. “Well….er, this is er….., It seems as though…er…., What you need to… er… understand…., I think….er…., Well perhaps…er. Asked if he would like a seat he looked at all the empty seats to the right of the carriage and said he would rather stand!

Julia Gillard was interviewed this morning and said that Queensland voters had sent a very strong message, particularly about cost of living and the CO2 Tax. She said it was their democratic right to have their voices heard, at least until she could get her MeeeeJaa Review Board in place.

There are also reports of ALP galahs flying around in small flocks squawking, “State issues, squawk! State issues, only state issues, squawk, squawk!”

Now that Labor has been shown the way, ALP nastiness will go into overdrive.

So Can-do is Premier.

( :>|

Um….. isn’t…. that….wonderful!

( :>\

So…… now Queensland can look forward to a really bright future!

( :>/

Um……………......................yeah!

Hwaaaw!!

( :>(

Qld LNP are to be congratulated.

.

"Now that Labor has been shown the way, ALP nastiness will go into overdrive."

OLO's 'individual' shows us what nasty is by 'laying in with the boot'.

I don't even think Campbell Newman nor Tony Abbott would stoop that low.

bonmot,
Your mates will prove you wrong within the week, just watch this space. btw. Queenslanders have just proven that ideology alone doesn't pay the bills.

Politics - isn't it fun?

Hello, Hello, Hello, how - low.

Now to be serious for a moment.

I wish Queensland all the Best. We shall see what
happens in the next couple of years. We can take
a look at NSW and Victoria and note how well
the new state governments are doing in those states
and as Rache pointed out - the next federal election
is still sometime away and voters will get a chance
to make a comparison on what's being done and
delivered and by whom and of course make the crucial
decision as to what type of society they want to
live in.

Call me old-fashioned, but I agree with RObert.
Many people are sick and tired of all the fighting,
insults, and finger-pointing that our politicians
engage in. I wish that somehow we could get to vote
for the best and the brightest and that party loyalties
were not more important than national interests. That
our representatives could sit around the table and work
together to achieve the best possible outcomes for us
all - and not fight and obstruct good ideas - simply
because the "other side" suggested them.

But it's a pipe-dream I know. And as long as this
continues - our country will never reach the full
potential that we all know it's capable of.

Anyway - once again - Congratulations to Queensland -
fingers-crossed that all goes well for the state.

Lexi having said that it's also fair to point out that the LNP campaign was not an overly positive one. In my view a broader one, attacking the general lies and waste rather than individuals.

I don't know if that was strategic or ethics, my gut feel is the former but my wish is the latter.

Newman has the chance to change the direction of Australian politics by his choices over the next 12 months or so.

He could take steps to stop politically motivated cabinet secrecy, he could take steps to ensure that appointments to key positions are on merit rather than political affiliation. He could take some steps to work with what's left of Qld Labor rather than abuse the power difference that now exists.

It was interesting last night to hear Beatty and Springborg talking about working together when the then Nat/Lib had very small numbers in parliament to ensure that they had resources to be an effective opposition.

Newman can lead by example or he can give us more of the same.

R0bert

The rout Federally won't be as big as Qld State.There were a lot of factors like the floods ,the longevity of their rule and yes all the incompetence which is Labor's trademark.

The carbon tax is all about destroying the middle class and giving money to the UN for ther Globalist's New World Order.Gillard is a self professed communist along with Bob Brown and Penny Wong.

This is all about saving the planet by reducing consumption.That means poverty for us while they the elites live like kings.

Many people are sick and tired of all the fighting,
Lexi,
Correct & only a clear majority can end that. I sincerely hope that the lot I believe to be an alternative to the squandering & I helped get across the line will be strong enough not to get side-tracked by the inevitable & nasty & natural pickering that will come from the now opposition. To them I say, let this mob do the job, you're still better off than many on our side of politics.

Just noticed that Bligh has announced she is quiting politics.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/anna-bligh-quits-politics/story-fnbt5t29-1226309458748

"Her decision allows Labor to parachute a dumped MP into her seat, with the potential for ALP talent and former deputy premier Andrew Fraser or former education minister Cameron Dick to be thrown an election lifeline."

I'd seen a poll earlier asking if she should quit to allow Fraser a chance to get back on.

As I understand it most of the ministers from the Labor government lost their seats, Fraser as Deputy and Treasurer was either a silent partner or a massive part of the leadership which brought this on Labor. Qld voters have tied to send Labor a very strong message, putting someone back in who'd been ousted by his own electorate (if that's what Labor tries to do) would seem to be a great way of saying we are not listening.

Maybe an opportunity to try and put in some fresh talent from outside the old guard, neater than the LNP's had to work with having Newman leading the party while not in parliament.

If Labor is to make real changes putting one of the old guard back in charge is not the way to do it, they do have an opportunity to try and bring in someone who was not a part of that and who might present a credible leadership.

R0bert

Belly,
You have often reffered to lies from Abbott, the Libs and the media. I now suggest you take off your rose coloured glasses and read all the readers comments in the Qld papers.

While the carbon tax is mentioned a lot, it is the lies, spin and deceit put out by Labor that brought about the Qld result.

Bligh lied about the fuel subsidy, Gillard lied about the carbon tax. Rudd and Gillard lied about stopping the boats.

Spin about the effects of global warming,Bligh's husband given top job. Gillard gives top job to Flannery. Rudd claims a couple of hot days (Adelaide) is proof of global warming. Much revenue from carbon tax will go to UN, no benefit to Aus.

Bligh is deceitfull about selling state assetts (railways). This week Shorten tries to tell us that the Miners tax will pay for increase in workers comp. Knows that workers comp is paid for by employers and employees. That is outright deceit.

If you want Labor to succeed get them to stop the lies, spin and deceit. That would be a good start. Can't do much about their incompedence fedrally.

Banjo/Lexi/but most of all Paul 1405, who pears down on me and Lexi from his Greens hill, an ants nest.
Yesterday was not in doubt, what ever is said here Labor had warn out its welcome,just before the last election.
One conservatives did not get beaten, they gave it away.
Labor values? product of the south bound end of a north bound BULL.
It was lack of values that killed Labor.
Congrats to LNP, do not look for early failure, it will not happen.
They have a mandate, FOR ANYTHING THEY WISH.
Like big Barry in NSW has still, given to them by yesterdays failures.
We must take the humble pie, consume it and learn from it.
To never ever let it happen again.
To never forget it, and remember it FOREVER.
Changes will come, we now have the time, it will be a decade before we have any chance of putting up as how.
And that long, to CHANGE
Paul 1405 next post is yours.
Continued

Paul 1405 you, without understanding why, highlight why the Greens are destroyers of Democracy.
You sling at me your barb less arrows and at my party as sell outs.
But in truth it is was and all ways will be those who creeped away to the Greens who betray working Australians.
The Doc Evate Aurthur Caldwell ALP leaderships, nearly killed my party, one as attractive to voters as a road kill cane toad.
The other determined to have policy's no one else wanted.
COMPROMISE
The fact is a government must do that,and to be a good government,a Long term government, it must represent the majority.
Greens never can do either.
It is true, more than air this country must confront in federal Parliament greens do more damage than good.
Last night you saw your team told in capital letters, at the lowest point in Labor, your opponents, history , you are unwanted.
So dream your dreams of victory, they are only dreams, kick the only party that can beat conservatives, support black mail by greens but know the future is black for your team, that makes me feel good.
Post scipt, Gillard if she continues to lead after this has no loyalty to the ALP.
An illness could well be found to let her down lightly, say a Ministers role to lessen the symptoms and Bill Shorten to the rescue.

Belly,
In my last post I said, "This week Shorten tries to tell us that the Miners tax will pay for increase in workers comp. Knows that workers comp is paid for by employers and employees. That is outright deceit".

My error, sorry! This should read 'Workers super' in both places, NOT workers comp.

All Labor supporters should read the readers comments in todays Qld papers and take in what they say. These are the comments of the common people, the ones that vote. Just disregard the nasty ones and take in the constructive ones.

Interesting that even the mad Katter got many more votes than the Greens. Hopefully people have woken up to the fact that Green policy is debauchery and very bad for the country.

I'll leave all the dissection and analysis
of the Queensland election results to the
experts simply because I'm not familiar
with the politics - not living in the state.
I'm not familiar with state issues. What mistakes
were made - we can only hope that politicians
will take note and whatever the message from
voters - lets trust that it will be heard.

How much things will change and whether it is
for the better - only time will tell.

An opportunity has been given for Queensland to
start afresh - and try to transform things -
hopefully for the better. Labor should also,
as posters have suggested - try a new and
fresh approach.

Question Time in Federal Parliament should prove
to be interesting.

Belly, "An illness could well be found to let her down lightly, say a Ministers role to lessen the symptoms and Bill Shorten to the rescue."

I have to take you to task for that. The Qld Labor party has just been resoundingly booted out of office in part because people are sick of the lies and spin. Gillard and federal Labor are on the nose in part for the same reasons and your solution involves yet more lies and spin.

Far better if they turned over a new leaf and dealt with it honestly rather than yet another lie. They could try a bold experiment and kick her out and start telling the truth, be interesting to see how long Abbott lasted against that.

I'd also note that from what I can see most of those Labor members who did retain their seats did so on Greens preferences. You might also like to have a think about your comments about preferential voting in a thread started while CJ was still with us then have a think about what would be left of Labor in Qld without that same preferential voting. I suspect that car pooling would be out of question, a scooter would cover it.

R0bert

Sarcastic remarks are strong in this thread - akin to 'individual's nastiness', sad.

We are experiencing a 'nasty' age in politics - borne in some tea-party room.

borne in some tea-party room.
Bonmot,
Ah well, never mind, go & have a cuppa with Poirot.

Belly, Your ALP leader in Queensland can thank The Greens for saving her own political skin and saving her the embarrassment of doing a 'Stanly Bruce' like John Howard did. In the seat of South Brisbane a strong 'Labor' electorate Bligh ALP 39% LNP 38% Greens 18% KAP 3%. Yes runner Katter did particularly well in the deep north with his parish pump politics. People like Katter will always appeal to the LCD. I must admit even though i don't agree with much of what Bob Katter has to say I do hold a begrudging admiration for The Mad Katter, what you see is what you get.
Belly "the Greens are destroyers of Democracy." please! next thing you will be accusing us of stealing Christmas. A bit rich when you yourself talk about wanting to see a sneaky sleazy scheme being hatched where Gillard is replaced by Shorten, Gillards payoff would be a ministerial plum. Please tell me how is that democracy?

Even staunch labor voters don't like to be lied to.

There is a strong message here and Julia has a huge hole, she has dugg for herself and I seriously doubt she can get out of it.

She will be under tremendous preasure now to call an election, I just hope she listens to THE PEOPLE and not her people, as they will be in major damage control.

BTW, still no apology to CN and his family.

What a disgrace that government was.

Three cheers for CN, we always knew we just needed a leader, and the voters would do the rest.

I sincerely hope that the new Queensland Premier
will not disappoint and will turn out to provide
Queenslanders with no reason to regret the choice
they made.

Unlike in NSW and especially for us here in Victoria -
cracks are beginning to appear. The promises that
our Liberal Victorian Premier made regarding improving
the state's education (amongst others) he's already reneging
on. Cuts are being made. No surprises there.

Still, I guess one can only choose on party platforms
at the time of an election. And undoubtedly after 20
years of one party - the inevitable outcome had to be
a change. Good or bad - Queenslanders will eventually
find out for themselves.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8441043
My morning started with a laugh and it gets better.
RObert,without the greens,[and do not hang CJ on me], do you think their voters would vote LNP?
Is it not true many Greens are protest Labor voters who give preferences back to us.
I said what I think, lets be honest.
Am I wrong to say,or is it not true, more Australians DESPISE the Greens than will ever vote for them?
My link , from one of the world biggest manufacturer, said to be a victim of carbon tax, tells it like it is.
Politics is not about our thoughts,our loyalty's, it is *best possible outcome*, putting together the thoughts and ideas of the most.
Greens never tried that never will State Labor,and federal, with great policy's, but no salesmen.
Should reconsider its reliance on its paths and Abbott dysfunctional ways.
He is selling shoddy goods but its the buyers we must fear.
Bill Shorten must be given his chance.
Who thinks Gillard can win, is the ALP banking on Abbott being rejected?
It is not good enough to plan for defeat mid term.
Bonmot Indy lacks understanding and is never going to change.
Ultimately, what is so wrong with one value for a vote ? why not just vote once? who wants third placed candidates winning seats?

Belly,

It is thanks to the greens that Juliar had to break her promise to the voters and introduce a carbon tax. It is at this point that the voters stopped listening.

The analogue with Anna Bligh is clear. Anna broke a solemn promise to the voters, and lost their respect and never recovered in the polls. Juliar has now lost the trust of the voters, and that can never be won back. Anna in her own words recognised that Labor cannot rebuild with her at the helm, and Juliar should too.

Belly: You didn't answer my question about democracy. Your claim that Green voters are nothing more than disillusioned Labor voters, not true I, through talking and listing to voters have found people are attracted to our policies, people with a social conscience. The ALP is now down to their 'rusted on voters' those that vote Labor without giving it a thought the red neck 25% of conservative Labor.
Typical of Labor you take the Green preference when it suits but slander us at every turn. Its you conservative Labor people who destroyed your own party and now you try to blame The Greens for your own disaster.
True there are many members within The Greens that believe one of our function is to try and keep/get Labor into office, the lesser of two evils stuff, I'm not one of them, to my way of thinking like NSW there was no real change in Queensland on Saturday one conservative mob was replaced by another, as there will be no real change when Abbott replaces Gilard. Those that control society, big business, don;t lose any sleep when your mob are voted into office, yours are most complaint, a bit of window dressing, that;s all, big business will do very well when Labor holds the reins.
Unlike Labor The Greens allow the candidate to determine preferences. AT the last Federal election, after much debate, our candidate decided to let the voters choose their own preference. This resulted in Labor winning with a 6% margin. Next time I know who will be the Liberal candidate, a small l Liberal, I'm not sure who will run for Labor. I would not oppose giving our preference to the Liberal over Labor on the grounds that the Labor candidate is an incompetent fool. Naturally minor progressive parties, and like minded independents, would both be placed above Liberal and Labor on our how to vote guide.

Lexi, there comes a time when enough, is enough, and this is what happened here in QLD.

In fact, it should have happened last election, however, we didn't have a strong leader, as that was all that was missing, the proof being in the result.

Julia will be hoping and praying another CN doesn't come out of the wood work to lead federal libs.

It may happen now as CN has paved the way for many changes in this country.

Paul, the main issue I have with the greens, is their anti progress policies.

I think we need to decide, do we stay where we are go backwards, or move forwards.

After all, do you think it is fair to bring a child in to our world, not offering them the same opportunities we had.

Anti progress policies will deprive future generations of these opportunities.

Precisely - that is why there are conservatives on one side, and progressives on the other.

By their very nature, conservatives can't/don't see a way of moving forward, preferring 'business as usual'.

Anti Progress, isn't that what Abbott is all about.
CN hasn't opened his mouth yet and you have him up there with Christ, best to wait a little before you come to any conclusions. It could fall in a heap.

rehctub: Many ill informed believe us Greens are a bunch of tree hugging pot smoking hippies. As one who has spoken to 100's of Green members, nothing could be further from the truth. On the economy sustainable development is what we are on about as for society we believe in social justice. I have worked with many Green Candidates over the years, not one has been the 'hippie type' (they grew up and become merchant bankers on a zillion dollars a year, swapped their flowered shirts for a 3 piece suit, moved out of Newtown and joined the St Ives branch of the Liberal Party LOL) and I can best describe them as well educated thinking people, with a true commitment to the dispossessed in our society. We Greens hide nothing love'm or hate'm our policies are there for all to see.
I would hate to see The Greens try and embrace some kind of populism (aka Labor) which may well appeal to many in the short term, delivering a victory or two. But in the long term it would leave the party with no direction and no support (aka Labor). I don't expect everyone to agree with us,but policy develops over time as does true lasting support, we listen to people, we try to develop policy through consultation with those that otherwise would not be given a voice, not at the behest of the rich and powerful, big business, big union, by and large that is the ordinary Australian.

Paul,

The Greens are the party of flowery Ideals and no accountability. Lots of wishes and no care for the consequences.

The carbon tax is a prime example. Bob Brown blackmailed Juliar into breaking a promise and imposing an unpopular and economically imprudent tax on an unwilling populace. As the QSW election has shown, the voters do not forget or forgive politicians that lie to them.

In 2 years Juliar and her carbon tax will be gone, and it will be as popular as work choices.

It isn't very prudent to make predictions in the
political arena. Things can change very quickly.
Regarding the carbon tax? It's not easy to
get rid of something that has been legislated
and up and running. Promises were made to get rid
of the GST - after it was passed, and up and running.
It never happened and is still with us today. Scare
tactics did n't work with the GST - and I very much
doubt whether it will work with the carbon tax - once
people realise that it's not the disaster that it's
being painted to be by the Coalition.

Before people gloat too heavily on Labor's Queensland
demise - it's best to take a few lessons from history.
Both parties have suffered their fair share of wins
and losses - and in politics the tide comes in and the
tide goes out. And much can yet happen - before the
next Federal election. Especially, as I mentioned earlier
the Liberal states - NSW, Victoria, and now Queensland -
don't come up to people's expectations.

The LNP is the party of the developers.

Incompetence has been replaced by greed.

Paul,
A few years back I took the trouble to look at all of the Greens policies. There was nothing practical in them, it was fairyland stuff. Things like lowering the age of consent, legalising all drugs, doing away with Aus defence, training people in passive resistance for our defence (lay down and let tanks run over you), just to name a few. Now they have been rewritten, not changed but written so they can mean whatever the reader wishes. Clever but deceitfull.

Belly,
I hope you realise that Labor promoted the Greens by doing preference swaps with them as they saw them as usefull idiots. This allowed the Greens to get the numbers for the Senate seats. Your party encouraged the Greens.

Labor is gone at next election, Shorten cannot save them. Why crucify him? Rudd is the only one with a big enough ego to think he will be the new messiah. But he too would fail. The rot is set in.

People see Labor as false, boat people, carbon tax, NBN,global warming and the miners tax. They have shown themselves to be spendthrifts and incompedent managers. Voters are fed up with the lies, spin and deceit. And all the stuff ups.

But it is good that they stick to their ways as that just ensures their demise.

Yep, the baseball bats are being cleaned & oiled, ready for Julia & her lying bunch of idiots.

Oh, & don't worry you greens, there will be plenty to go round, so you'll get your share. World government indeed.

I see Beattie is still just as stupid as he was when he destroyed the Qld economy. Well stupid, or he really does want Labor destroyed.

Can you imagine anything as stupid as having more of Gillard in QLD. Every time she appears on TV, another hundred or 2 labor supporters switch sides. The only chance they have to get anything back is to sit on her head, & never let a picture of her be seen, or her voice be heard.

Yes I know she is not all that photogenic from behind, but the only picture of her any of us want to see, is that of her walking away from the lodge, suitcase in hand.

With Anna Beattie threw her a sucker pass, & we were kind for quite a while. With the red head, she did it all her self, & the baseball bats have been waiting ever since that big lie.

Yep Bleigh was just a practice swing, the real swing with feeling is still waiting. To her offsiders, you let her do it, or even aided her, so you are for it every bit as much as your Qld colleges.

Could we really do it right, & have just a mini bus load of Labor types in federal parliament? What a delicious thought.

<< The LNP is the party of the developers. Incompetence has been replaced by greed. >>

Yes, something like that, david f.

Labor had a slight sense of sustainability. Bligh did make some efforts to deal with the enormous problem of population pressure in southeast Queensland, albeit to no avail, as I express here:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3279

I can't imagine that we'll see anything of the sort from Can-do (soon to be known as Can’t-do?) Campbell Newman.

Banjo: I would like to comment on your Liberal Party policies but I can't find them. Can you please direct me to them? A few years ago your party, the conservatives, opposed windows pensions and the building of the Sydney Harbor Bridge, is that still still your policy, how far do you want to go back?

The ABC, CH7, 9 and 10 and the Canberra Media Gallery are the best asset Tony Abbott has.

The longer they fail to recognize the real significance of the QLD election, the better.

The more they tell us it was all about State issues, the more they ignore electorates, the more angry and frustrated the electorates become, the more they will feel they are not being listened to, the bigger the federal baseball bat.

The federal ALP, the Greens and the independents will be decimated at the next federal election because the politicians and their cheer squads have learnt nothing, so the same will happen again. WA, NSW, VIC, QLD.

Shadow Ministers thread is; “Queensland election, a referendum on the carbon tax”.

So many posters on this thread will do anything to avoid looking into this issue and that tells us one thing for certain, SM is spot on.

We can address that issue or join the commentariat

Well, I have just read about half the comments on here.
Pretty much as expected from all the usual suspects.
The trouble is neither of the parties, (the greens don't count) are
prepared to face up to the changes that are on the way.
None of them will be prepared to say to the electorate something like;

"No, cannot do that, you do not have the money !".

We now have a large debt we will need to try and get reduced before
we can start up the bulldozers for all the projects that will be
promised over the next five or six years.
I think Andrew Robb should be treasurer after the federal election as
he does seem to understand our financial predicament.
He made a speach in Parliament recently on our situation, but it got
zero cover in the media.
One notable thing he pointed out was that a large slab of labours
financial incentive has not been spent !

Barnaby Joyce was the only one who was game to say that the US was in
danger of default, and he lost his job for that. He was ultimately
proved right and the only reason was the US did not default was
because it produced many $trillions of pixel money.
Not even the printing presses could produce money fast enough.
No wonder the A$ is US$1.04.

No, an entirely different approach will be needed by all governments from now on.

>> Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has side-stepped questions over whether he still considers the Queensland election a referendum on the carbon tax.

Ahead of the election, Mr Abbott was urging Queenslanders to use their vote to send a message to Labor on the tax. This afternoon he refused to be drawn on the issue, saying instead the result was a triumph for Campbell Newman and great for the LNP. <<

Says it all, really.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/13255421/as-it-happened-new-era-in-queensland/

Of course, the main stream media e.g. The ABC, CH7, 9 and 10 and the Canberra Media Gallery + SBS, radio, blogs, foreign media, Financial Review, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, Australian, Courier Mail, yada yada yada ... have got it all wrong.

What it looks like to most of the above: Abbott has not only side-stepped, but demonstrated yet again he shoots from the hip - much like Sarah Palin, and our very own Shadow Minister and Spindoctor.

.

Bazz, haven't you heard - Mr Newman 'can do' everything :)

BM,

There are two aspects of the carbon tax:
1 That Juliar broke a promise to the electorate, which makes it an issue of trust and integrity.
2 That it is a cost of living issue.

No one can doubt that cost of living and broken promises are the main reason that the Labor MPs can barely fill a minivan, and there is no doubt that without the carbon tax Labor would have lost but not received such a drubbing.

Qld voted for issues regarding QLD, to vote for something federal is saying the people are stupid.
I think the floods are playing a big part in QLD politics, and that is something that is not going to improve., even the southern states are getting monsoonal rain.
Be interesting to see how CN handles the situation.
Butch has got him up there with JC.

579:

JC is a semimythical creation. The reality of CN worries me. He leads a party that wanted to disassociate itself from all of its parliamentarians. No matter who you vote for a politician gets elected.

'Shadow Minister'

Wriggle all you like, spin it all you like.

Tony Abbott has side-stepped and diverted questions over whether he still considers the Queensland election a referendum on the carbon tax.

He obviously doesn't.

You (and spindoc) obviously do.

Following your logical fallacy - Campbell Newman supports 'Gay Marriage' so does the vast majority of Queenslanders.

bonmot,

As far as I know the question of why we voted the way we did was asked. Our answer was 1. Cost of living, 2. Service Delivery and 3. CO2 Tax.

It serves little purpose to ask the media why “they” think we voted as we did. You can TELL us your opinion as often as you like but your opinion and that of the MSM will not change reality.

<<Of course, the main stream media e.g. The ABC, CH7, 9 and 10 and the Canberra Media Gallery + SBS, radio, blogs, foreign media, Financial Review, Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, Australian, Courier Mail, yada yada yada ... have got it all wrong>> ?

You missed out the ALP but the answer is still YEP!

Now all you have to do is contact all the QLD’rs who gave you their reasons and tell them they are wrong.

Best of luck.

BM,

Don't try and get too literal, if you are implying that Abbott meant that the election was the sole factor in the election, then you are either naive or deliberately obtuse.

Whether the toxicity of federal labor w.r.t. the carbon tax and the deceit surrounding it was a significant contribution to the obliteration of QSW Labor, then it was without doubt a factor.

Perhaps you should read the newspapers where the warnings for federal labor are coming thick and fast.

579, it is so nice of you to tell us why we voted as we did, obviously we couldn't figure it out for ourselves now, could we.

I wonder what it will take to shut these lefties up.

I wonder if having a federal number lower than 30 would do it. Would they have to be down to 20, before they realised everyone is a wake up to them?

What ever it is, we must make sure it is below the threshold next year, their arrogance requires it of the rest of us. Not even a total whitewash gives them any sense of what is happening.

Funny, I was always a swing voter, before I came to this blog. Now I am confirmed anti Labor. I am wondering if it is the incompetence of current Labor pollies, or the attitude of their supporters on here which has made that happen?

SM

Perhaps you are the one being deliberately obtuse, literal and naive.

"if you are implying that Abbott meant that the election was the sole factor in the election".

Never implied that at all but go ahead, read into it what you (spindoc, hasbeen, individual, et al) typically do.

The ALP has in its election tool box a strange tool Tony Abbott,I can see it now.
You can only believe what I say that is in print not on the run comments,I am free to lie then.
A nanny in every home, our 70 billion black hole may as well swell some more.
Labor is killing manufacturing, but lets not subsidies the car industry or steel.
Cut pensions, so we can fund middle class welfare.
Cut education raise tax's but not to the rich.
Only Gillard props Abbott up, he out boxes her , actually was a good boxer it may be an excuse.
Gillard can thank Abbott for her staying, a real leader would put Conservatives another ten points clear.

Paul,
I have always opposed the greens because of their fairyland stuff, lkie they are eating funny mushrooms. have a good look at those handing out HTVs for the Greens, they are different from ordinary folks.

But you are wrong, I am not a Liberal supporter generally or a member of any party. It is just that the present government are so useless and incompedent that I am compelled to do what I can to be rid of them. If I want to be rid of the present mob the only ones to take their place is the Libs. I have a few grievences but we did pretty well before.

You see I agree with Belly, if the Libs had a better leader we would not be in this mess now, Gillard would not have made it last time. Oh, and Turnbull is not the Libs answer to that.

579,
Keep going lad, you doing well. Yeah there are no implications for Gillard from the Qld election, it was entirely state issues and you tell em that at your ALP party meeting. Gillards got it all under control and the idiot electors will forget what a liar and incompedent she is. Take no notice of those saying you are in denial.

If you are swayed about federal issues in a state election, there is something naive about it.
Hasbeen was a swinging voter, but now he is a neoliberal, but he did not give the carbon tax as a cause.
Qld has more issues than a hat full of holes, and if they did not take the opportunity to address that, then a change of govt; won't do a thing for you.
You are far to early to be celebrating, wait 6 months. Remember what conservative means. Good luck.

I'm still a swinging voter - always have been, hasbeen.

.

579
You are confusing neo-liberalism with neo-conservatism - US liberals with Australian Liberals.

Wikki is a good start - see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism#Australia

then scroll down to the United States.

Abbott is more akin to 'Tea-Party' conservatism - not good for anyone or anything, imho.

On the other hand, I could live with a more centrist Liberal, e.g. Turnbull.

Unfortunately, Abbott & his ilk stabbed him in the back.

Banjo: "have a good look at those handing out HTVs for the Greens, they are different from ordinary folks."I assume you have never handed out HTV at an election. I've done many an election, federal, state and local. I have nothing but admiration for those doing the hack work for all parties. I always get on well with the Libs, Labor in fact all party workers. these are ordinary Australian who are willing to give up their time to try and make a difference. I like to watch the sheep go in to cast their vote, are you one of those sheep? Still waiting for you to direct me to those Liberal Party policies. I assume all those years ago when you checked on Green policies did you check Liberal and labor policies at the same time? p/s I don't recall that fairyland stuff. Things like lowering the age of consent, legalising all drugs, doing away with Aus defence, etc." Most likely you read that stuff in the Murdoch press and took it to be Green policy? Do you conservatives still support a war with Vietnam, let me answer that one myself, your too busy making war on Iraq and Afghanistan and planing wars on Iran and North Korea.
You oppose a carbon tax and a mining tax but support a goods and services tax. Would that have anything to do with the carbon and mining tax being imposed on big business whilst you were able to impose the GST on the ordinary bloke while business do all they can to rough the tax system. Will Abbott bring back work choices? most likely with a different name.

Paul,
Only handed out HTVs, and scrutineered, at nearly every State and Fed election since 1960,and a few local govt elections. Nearly forgot the republic referendum as well. Like you, got on pretty well with other booth workers, but noticed the difference in the greens booth workers. Have even traveled interstate to be a booth worker.

The policies I mentioned came direct from the Greens official website.They are still there if you interpret the policies correctly, just worded different. They sure have had some weird policies.

See Bob Browns speech in Tassie, calling us earthians and promoting a one world government. Hey, I have read of some claiming Bob Katter is mad. He could not even come second to Bob Brown. You Greens are still smoking that Wacky tobaccy.

Don't assume others know nothing or have little experience.

Remember what conservative means.
579,
It means several things such as cautious, responsible & sensible. Your lot lost all that when the Labor Party became Labor in name only.
I only too clearly recall Labor's meaning of transparent & democratic. No consideration for anyone working for a living & shady deals with consultants galore.
Fleecing those with the go in them & rewarding the hangers-on. Exactly the opposite to the original Labor doctrine.

"Have even traveled interstate to be a booth worker." Yes Banjo I know the problem you members of The Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group) have. Always having to bus in 'Happy Clappers' to do your HTV's I met some of your folk last time around at the NSW election. Not a bad bunch of kiddies. Done a pre-poll booth during the week before the election, there was this crazy right winger running for the LC, kept wanting to shove some rubbish from Archbishop Peel in our faces, even his own co worker said he was an x army, religious nutter. The funny thing is the Liberal bloke said "gee the Labor Party has a crazy one there." I had to agree. Takes all kinds. Done a booth once and this old chook with blue rinse in her hair turned up, there to do a couples of hours for the Liberal Party she was from Sydney's eastern suburbs, kept telling the voters they lived in a very grubby suburb and the crime rate must be high. She confided in me she was leaving at 4 o'clock as she didn't think she would be safe walking to the bus stop. Could have got bopped by one of those voters she told "you live in 'Grubsville'."

My son asked me an interesting question this evening.

And its this:

"Would the Liberal Party in their own right have won
the Queensland election if they hadn't amalgamated
with the National Party?"

He explained that he was
watching the Queensland election coverage and
Labor in most electorates were only a few percentages
below the Liberal-National Party. For example - in one
electorate -
LNP got 53 percent, Labor got 45 percent and others
got the rest.

So if the Liberal and Nationals were
not amalgamated Labor would have won in that electorate.
Interesting point my son was making. Of course the
Nationals are the strongest in Queensland - unlike
other states - and that explains why the Liberals saw
it to their advantage to amalgamate in Queensland.

Anyway, I tried to explain to my son -
that in the past there were
three major parties contesting the elections in
Queensland. Labor, National, Liberal.

Of the three parties the Liberals were the weakest.
For the past twenty odd years Labor has won the elections.
By joining together the two weaker parties it was
natural that they would collect more votes than Labor.
That is why it was a total wipe-out for Labor.

Perhaps Labor should consider amalgamating with the
Greens in Queensland - and then the contest would be
more evenly balanced.

I'm not suggesting that Labor would have necessarily won
in Queensland - but if it wasn't for the amalgamation of
the LNP - Labor would not have lost by such a large
margin. Who knows they may even have won by a small
margin.

cont'd ...

BTW - Anna Bligh retained her seat.
So it is obvious that it was not a backlash
against her. Unlike Mr Howard's backlash -
in his electorate.

Light on the Hill stuff is very powerful, but it must be sincere. Maybe Qld Labor's rout is analogous to the voter listening to Chifley's speech, then looking up and seeing it was being uttered by Craig Thompson. Labor needs a separation of power of sorts so it can return to its grass-roots.

Lexi, you omitted to say that generally the Libs & Nats did not
stand against each other, or when they did they exchanged preferences
or the voters voted their preference.

What you said would have been true in a first past the post system.

I don't think you can itemise it to co2 tax, selling QR, petrol
subsidy etc etc, it all just gets taken up and goes into the mix that
the voter holds in mind when he votes.

You just cannot allocate percentages to each possible reason.

Tony Abbott now agrees too Bazz, the Qld election was NOT a referendum on the carbon tax.

His original assertion (and that of Shadow Minister) was just rhetorical fear mongering spin - pure and simple.

Did it work? Probably.

I suppose the Labor Party will have the unmitigated gall to stand a candidate in the seat of South Brisbane. Regardless of any other consideration a person stands first and foremost with the expressed purpose of agreeing, baring accident or sickness, if elected to represent the good folk who put their trust in them, and those who didn't, for the life of the next parliament. Bligh has thumbed her nose at those who voted personally for her and is now doing a runner with a nice payout and some juicily lurks and perks.
If I was a voter in the up coming by-election I would put Labor last.

Lexi,

With the liberals and nationals in a coalition, and a voluntary preference system, it made no sense to run against each other. Vote counting wise, it would also help Labor and the greens if they formed a coalition, but politically it would alienate the middle base that labor needs to govern.

BM,

"Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said Queensland voters had nominated trust in the government and the rising cost of living as their main concerns.

'Cost of living and the carbon tax are flip sides of the same coin,' Mr Abbott said, reiterating his promise to make the repeal of the carbon scheme his first priority, should he win government."

Q.E.D.

Spruiking rhetorical fear mongering spin, again, Shadow Minister?

Just because Tony Abbott says 1 + 1 = 3 does not make it so.

QED back at ya.

I think that my son has raised a valid point.

I looked up the election results - and they were
given as - LNP 55.4 percent and ALP as 44.6 percent.
While in Ashgrove Kate Jones received - 9,406 votes
while Campbell Newman received 13,144. And as my son
pointed out if the LNP had not amalgamated - the results
would have been different. As he pointed out Anna Bligh
did retain her seat.

BM,

Read the opinion pieces, just about every commentator is saying something along the same lines, including ex labor power broker Graham Richardson. The polls show that just over 1/4 of voters want Labor.

To quote Peter Van Onselen,

"Today's Newspoll should end debate about whether Queensland Labor's problems extend to the federal party'

And from others:

"A DEEP and collective depression has taken hold of federal Labor, with the latest Newspoll suggesting the Gillard government faces a Queensland-style election rout with the loss of up to 37 seats."

If anyone thinks that things can change in 18 months, remember they were saying the same thing 12 months ago, and they haven't. Federal labor is following an almost identical trajectory in the polls that Queensland did. The old maxim, that madness is expecting things to change while continuing to do exactly the same.

We all know that polls are not exactly accurate and
don't tell the full story. They can be orchestrated
to achieve whatever results are necessary - depending
on the questions that are asked, and what sector of
the population is being asked those questions, and how
truthfully those questions are answered. We've had
the perfect example of this with the Republic Referendum.
No one should count their chickens before they hatch.

Ah...a return to the good old days of the "White Shoe Brigade".

When Clive starts ripping up the Darling Downs for a massive new mine and they decide that there is oil in "them thar reefs" and open up the Great Barrier Reef for a bit of exploration won't the Queenslanders whinge.

Of course with total domination of parliament and no upper house of review there will be no stopping them.

Good luck QLD! I plan to move my business there as all checks and balances will be "off the agenda"...good times for all! Companies that is and screw the workers.

You still don’t get it, Shadow.

Or, perhaps you do and now want to change the subject, goal posts and playing field.

You said, as did Abbott … that the Queensland election will be a referendum on the carbon tax.

It was NOT.

Abbott wriggled, side-stepped and squirmed to say it wasn’t, after the event.

At least he had the guts to squirm.

You? You are ‘doing an Abbott’ here on this thread – wriggling, side-stepping and squirming as well.

Homework, Bart Simpson style - the Queensland election was NOT a referendum on the carbon tax.

ce qu'il fallait démontrer

Lexi,

Are you telling us that Newspoll that has built its reputation on being the most accurate polling organisation in the country, that has almost without exception been within 1% of election results for many years, is suddenly biasing its polls to make labor look bad?

You are clearly in denial.

Federal labor is in a deep hole, and if they want to get out in 18 months, the first thing to do is stop digging.

BM,

Read my first post again. Then try and tell me where I said that the election was literally a referendum on the carbon tax.

If you deliberately misinterpret what I say then attack the misinterpretation, then don't expect to be taken seriously.

Bonmot, sometimes you make such a prat of yourself. Sorry, not just sometimes!

You said to Shadow Minister; <<Homework, Bart Simpson style - the Queensland election was NOT a referendum on the carbon tax.>>

Courier Mail, February 24:

“Today though, we’re here to once again comment, both of us here, about the pervasive and negative impacts of a carbon tax on Queensland. It’s twelve months today that Julia Gillard and her colleagues, with the Greens, went out into the courtyard at Parliament House and showed that they had misled, in fact lied to the people of Australia. The carbon tax is bad for Queensland. It’s bad for jobs. Frankly, if the carbon tax is introduced it will make it even harder for us to achieve our four per cent target. But that’s why I’m here today, to say that we will fight every single day, if we’re elected, as the Government of Queensland, to fight against this tax; that even if the tax is introduced, we will work with Tony Abbott and state premiers to fight the tax still.

We hope that Queenslanders will see the opportunity in this election campaign, but particularly on the 24th of March, to send a signal to Labor – who are so caught up in their own activities and their battles at the moment - send a signal to Canberra, to Labor that you don’t want the carbon tax and that’s why people have on the 24th of March an opportunity to actually send that signal to vote against a carbon tax".

In QLD we were asked to vote on the Carbon Dioxide Tax at the State election and we jolly well did. If you don’t like the way we voted, tough.

How’s the “rake handle” that just smacked you in the gob?

bonmot says;

“I’mm ncaan’t nmm ammsnster nnyour quentsionnn, ‘coss I got ammnnn, rake hammnnndle up my mmnnose!”

Sorry bonmot, we can’t hear you, what did you just say?

Lexi,
Preferential voting means that whether the Lib & Nats were amalgamated or stood separately their exchange of preferences would
mean the result would be the same.
Thats what preferential voting is all about !

'Shadow Minister'

>> Read my first post again. Then try and tell me where I said that the election was literally a referendum on the carbon tax. <<

Try reading the TITLE of your thread.

Let me help ... “Queensland election, a referendum on the carbon tax.”

Looks and sounds pretty literal to most people reading your guff, Shadow Minister.

.

Spindoctor, like ‘Shadow Minister’ and Tony Abbott, squirming and wriggling - obviously severed a nerve.

.

For the benefit of others (I’ve given up on OLO’s ‘Shadow Minister’ and ‘spindoctor as comprehensively and completely bereft of logic).

Before the election, Tony Abbott urged Queenslanders to use their vote to send a message to Labor on the tax, liking the election to a “referendum on the carbon tax” (his words).

No doubt as Bazz pointed out http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5046#135579 , they did.

However, straight after the election … Tony Abbott tried to distance himself from his pre-election, shoot-from-the-hip, Sarah Palin style gaff about a “referendum on the carbon tax” (his words).

I have respect for worms, not the motley wrigglers infesting this thread.

For what it’s worth, I think Campbell Newman did a fantastic job – let’s hope he gets Qld back on track.

PS

spindoctor, your last comment: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5046#135617

A display of your maturity and reasoning abilities, well done.

Foot in mouth disease is prevalent, tis Toni.
CN says lower power costs, will fix it. QLD has livable faults.
Some here say wages to high for non trained labor, but QLD has a livability crisis.
CN will fix it. When ya gonna start.

bonmot, and the article in the Courier Mail, Feb. 24 is where precisely? Oh yes, don’t mention it. Ship it off to the next galaxy as we don’t wish to acknowledge or debate it, especially since it contradicts all you have asserted.

There would seem to be very little that you are prepared to tackle head on, apart from the rake handle that is, but I’m sure that isn’t voluntary.

I love the smell of burning bonmot in the morning, or anytime really.

As for my reasoning capabilities? All I did was post the full article from the Courier Mail, if you have any issues with that, take it up with the Editor.

Ideological sucker!

BM,

So you admit, that you only read the headline and not the post. And now you are claiming that I am bereft of logic because the "headline" is not fully self explanatory?

Have you any idea how idiotic that sounds? It does, however, explain disconnectedness of your posts from the subject. The rest of the bluster I guess is some attempt to recover from your gaff.

Ah! Shadow Minister, you forget.

bonmot has appealed to a higher authority. Maybe you missed it SM, but it is significant.

bonmot the magnificent says;

<< For the benefit of others (I’ve given up on OLO’s ‘Shadow Minister’ and ‘spindoctor as comprehensively and completely bereft of logic).>>

You and I are duly dismissed because we’re unworthy of being heard (logically) by ordinary OLO’ers. <<For the benefit of others>>, there you have it. We are just trash and unworthy of a response or explanation from bonmot the magnificent. You and I are such losers SM. You and I are just “worms, motley wrigglers infesting this thread”.

I have always thought that to be reincarnated as a nematode worm would be preferable to coming back as an incomprehensible leftie. Mainly because we all know what a nematode worm is all about. I changed my mind when I considered the possibility of infesting the remains of a ‘bonmot”. Even I would baulk at that.

So get your "brown stuff" together SM, shape up, and recognize as I have to do, that we are just non-leftoid trailer trash. So sayeth bonmot the magnificent. You are not worthy of an explanation from the uber-intelligencia.

He he

Good night boys, cuddle up.

Ah bonmot, thank you. It takes a while but eventually you concede in the fsce of logic and reality. I think this is 182 or 183 threads that you have abandoned in the last three years because you were bereft of responses. Keep up the good work.

Night Night, tosser.

Paul,
You owe me a new keyboard. I coughed coffee all over it when I read your assumption that I am a member of Fred Niles mob. Just like all green lefties, you have not a clue about anything. Stop speculating and read what I have written. My background and present situation is not the issue here.

Belly,
Old mate, I see on another thread here that the lefties are now seeking more control of your party. I guess they would class you as a dinosour and old guard that prevents them taking control. That won't please you but to be expected that the left ignore their own shortcomings and try to get some advantage. I see Lexi is flying the kite of the ALP amalgamating with the Greens, no wonder you are ill.

When I was a kid, my local fed MP was Allan Fraser, solid ALP and good bloke. That was when MPs were genuine and trustworthy, a mans word was his bond. He was upfront and had integrity. Why am I now cynical of the major parties? because they no longer have that integrity, they lie and deceive, would sell their mother for a few votes. I would like the majors to be open and honest like Allan Fraser, but sadly that will not happen. He would be horrified if he was accused of lieing, now they just carry on. You are not that much younger than me, you may know of him.

Can you have a one party state and still have some form of democracy? In a state where the party ideology is paramount but different points of view as to direction and implementation of the ideology are tolerated. Elections are held, candidates nominate, outline their party 'policy' . Not withstanding all candidates are from the one party and embrace the same overall ideology of the party, each is offering a different 'policy' as to direction and implementation.
Is this all that different from a society that has say two major parties who's ideology and philosophy's are much the same, plus a load of small parties who have no real chance of power, but offer some alternative to the big two. With the big two there is only a slight difference in emphases and implementation when it comes to 'policy' both offer much the same thing. Is the second case all that different from the first?

You labor supporters make me laugh.

NSW was the first message, now QLD, you have to admit that the labor brand is about as wanted as a dropped pie right about now.

In the 2010 fed election, they went from about 85 seats back to 72 or so, and in anyone's eyes that's a flogging.

Enjoy it while you can, you can make very excuse you like, but the fac is they are doomed, as the only potential leader they had, is now swarn to the back bench, however, that to could be just another lie.

Now as for CN being JC himself, no, I don't think that way, it is jus that he is the first real leader the libs have had for years and, had we had him las election, he would have won then to.

The labor brand is on the nose and most likely will be for a decade or so

So I say again, enjoy it while you can.

Banjo: My reference to you being a member of the 'Happy Clappers' was tongue in cheek, I do not believe you are Fred Nile or one of his supporters, please accept my apologies.
The biggest critics of us Greens are, surprisingly not conservative Liberal voters, although they are not to keen on us, but older rusted on conservative Labor voters, the people who vote labor because the 'old man' did. I see two reasons for this, firstly they believe The Greens are a danger, trying to take 'their ground, their political patch' but there is more to it than that. On social justice issues conservative Labor tend to be more conservative that many small 'l' Liberal supporters, who tend to support the Liberal Party more for their economic policies than anything to do with social justice.
I am not upset at all with the present big shift to the right, although to me its not that big a shift, the voters don't have to jump to far to the right to transfer their allegiance from Labor to Liberal. When Abbott replaces Gillard I see that as a positive for The Greens in the longer term, a chance to clearly define our independence of Labor

Good morning boys, huddle up.

Spindoc,

Looked this morning at my OLO user profile (brought back some memories) and it appears that I have made 494 article comments, and 244 general discussion comments - 738 in total.

Now, you say I have abandoned 182 or 183 threads in the last 3 years?

What are you, some kinda paranoid stalker with a neurotic fetish for counting my OLO comments?

.

You know Shadow, you remind me of so many of the 'conservative ilk' ... incapable of saying you made a mistake or got it wrong. Rather, you fluster and bluster, squirm and worm - much like Abbott.

Now, I have more important thinhgs to do - bye bye.

I would just like to add a few comments about "newspolls."

I recently read an interesting article by Julian Burnside.
In which he wrote, "It is a strange paradox that while
we live in a torrent of information, there is such a
limited range of available views. Media ownership in
Australia is notoriously narrow. Mainstream media offers
little diversity, and such diversity as there is runs
along pedictable lines. The economics of print and
electronic media tend to drive opinion in the direction
of populism. This has unhappy results now that both
major political parties have, it seems, abandoned their
founding principles and form policies by references to
media coverage generally and to news polls and focus
groups in particular..."

It seems that the loudest voices in the dominant outlets
play a major part in shaping the views that are expressed in
news polls - and these of course tend to influence not
only the major political parties - but all of us. Today it
is impossible to predict how either party will respond to
changing circumstances. The modern fact of political life
is a result of new technology which allows
political parties to see what policy responses will
produce an electoral advantage to key marginal electorates.

Lexi,

Do you only read the New Matilda?

Newspoll is an independent organisation that specializes in determining the views of the populace at a particular point of time, and has proven to be more accurate than any other similar organisation. Their reputation would be destroyed if they deliberately skewed the data.

As for news reporting. Most people get their news from the TV, radio, or internet, and to assume that opinions are shaped en mass by one media alone is ridiculous. The same issues appear in different media across different corporations.

What you can control is the type and style of question asked. You could make anything to suite a purpose. Especially the Australian, a filthy rag that should be discarded.

Qld house prices falling, a new coal mine scuttled, what is this CN doing. Maybe its his intention to shut the state down, and go hippie style. He is trying to weasel out of a solar project as well, It's all backward, and accelerating.
Does anyone know what they voted for.

I get my information from a variety of sources.
As everybody knows. However as one poster
explained:

"New Matilda provides informed comment,
opinion, scientific and political discourse.
While others ... reveal themselves to be simply
sensational tabloids by comparison."

As Julian Burnside ttold us:

" I find that I need to find something between
the desert of mainstream media and the jungle of
the internet. I need a place where rational diverse
views can be found on matters of enduring importance.
New Matilda for me is such a place. Some people obviously
prefer to stick with the desert of mainstream media."

He summed things up thus: -

"It would be difficult to agree with every view expressed
in the columns of New Matilda, but it would be equally
difficult to disagree with them all. And it would be
impossible to criticise any of them as irrational or
foolish."

I am an immigrant to Australia and have read a bit of history so I can know more about the country I am living in. In effect many of the posters to this list are supporting something that no longer exists. Menzies was a generous man who could have personal friends in the opposition party. Fraser opposed the racism of his day. The Libs got the first person of Aboriginal descent into parliament. The Labor Party was founded by men who wanted to combat the disabilities of the workingman of their day. There was a nobility about Jack Lang. The fact is that all of the above would no longer fit in the parties they belonged to. Fraser who is still alive is no longer a Lib. I suspect that were the others mentioned above alive they would disown the present state of the parties they once served. The current major parties promise goodies to various voting blocs to get re-elected so they can suck at the government's teat and provide patronage to their supporters. They are rarely anything more than that.

I am a member of the Greens. The Greens have many flaws and sometimes support unrealistic positions. However, I see a hope for the future in the Greens which is difficult to see in the Libs or Labor. The Greens seem to have other concerns than merely getting into office.

Commentary on the the New Matilda by one of its major contributors, is called a plug, not an unbiased critique.

I would call it a safe refuge from rationality and the real world.

The qld election is starting to take place. CN is putting his mates in top public positions, and costello is on the payroll. All with his own approval.
He will get things organised pretty soon, and that will fix the state.

I don't believe that the carbon tax altered the predictable Queensland election outcome. Most people or those actually capable of doing their own thinking; actually understand that Julia's promise not to introduce a carbon tax, but a price setting carbon trading scheme, was patently predicated on a belief; and polling results, that Labour would win a significant majority and govern in its own right.
That was before the little leakers stuck and very nearly destroyed a once great party in the process.
[Hell hath no fury like that of a sacked Prime Minister or corporate psychopath?]
[One notes that Tanner, very staunch Rudd supporter, who reportedly hates Julias guts; is gone, retired.]
Nonetheless, despite the disastrous and damaging leaks; that have apparently continued and further harmed the party and its future prospects; Krudd continues to serve on/from the backbench; and arguably expects to be re-endorsed prior to the next election?
Perhaps he should stand and be judged and possibly found very wanting by the now thinking voters of Griffith?
Always providing they can tolerate the burning smell emanating from previously unused cerebral circuits? Ha ha. Rhrosty.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-28/kohler-emissions-targets-increase-ahead/3916840
This link is the beginning of a big land slide in my view.
For some time,always a believer in climate change and our roll, it has grown on me.
The current world wide wet and dry extremes are proof, we need to act.
I ask fellow believers to read and note.
In my mind a mountain of Liberal/National/Conservative mole hills made in to phantom mountains exists.
It has always been a culture for them, to fly the fear flag, on any issue.
A day will come, within the next ten years, that Conservatives currently in control of Liberal party, will eat humble pie on this issue.
Try desperately, to forget they ever said, climate change was a fraud.

Dear Belly,

You wrote, "I ask fellow believers to read and note."

That is an attitude that I find questionable. IMHO A political party is not something that one should believe in. It is an organisation which one may support because its policies one deems at a particular time are better for one's own and the country's interests than the alternatives presented. I remember Paul Keating characterising winning an election as 'a victory for true believers.' I had voted for the Labor cabdidate but very much resented that type of talk. I voted Labor because I thought at that election they were the best alternative presented. I remain sceptical toward both political parties and institutional religion. They are both assemblages of people who seek control and power. I prefer doubt and scepticism to belief.

No need to shoot the messenger, or his choice of words.

Here is the message, again:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-28/kohler-emissions-targets-increase-ahead/3916840

That was a very good article you linked to Belly, thanks.

Dear David f.,

Thank You for your posts. Refreshing to read something
that doesn't run along predictable lines. Much appreciated.

Hi David F. Like you I am a member of The Greens. I agree "It is an organisation which one may support because its policies one deems at a particular time are better for one's own and the country's interests than the alternatives presented."
Before I joined The Greens I was an ALP member so I have seen, so to speak, both sides. In the Greens the membership comes first, where as in the ALP the party comes first. Too many in the Labor Party, and I suspect in The Liberal Party as well, see the party as means to an an end for their own personal ambitions. There are those who point the finder at us and say you only have 12% support 88% won't vote for you. We could turn that around by jettisoning our principles and formulating a raft of populist policies. I call that the 'Micky Mouse Party', 'with the free cheese for everyone' policy. Such is popular in the short term but with no substance you will end up a party with no principles and no direction, chasing power for powers sake (aka ALP and Liberal parties).
P/s Like your reference to Jack Lang, the 'Big Fella', one of the true greats of Australian politics, my father knew him personally, not the radical people think, but rather conservative on many things, certainly by today's standards, expelled from the Labor Party, readmitted shortly before he died in his 90's. His books make great reading, also the book by Sir Phillip Games daughter is a good read as well, they were very interesting times indeed.

Here's a link that some of you may enjoy:

http://newmatilda.com/2012/03/28/cancans-one-party-paradise

Thanks Bonmot, it in my view is the best link I ever posted.
David f, with nothing but respect, 66 years old,been active in politics for better than 56 of them.
My views and yours can differ.
It changes nothing, I did not find your post refreshing.
Sorry but traveled the road from very left to left to center left, right left actually.
And picked up opinions along the way.
Minority rule is not Democracy.
Inflicting views such as greens on majority's, from a voting base that low, is near Dictatorship.
You found, in my words, shadows that never existed.
if you a green, read it you may well like it
Dave no offense, but greens could not serve conservatives better if they invented them.
Elections are won near the center and there only.
Paul 1405 and you Dave what do you think is the ultimate out come for the greens?
I am quite interested.
Know this, if you dream of growth then you are going to be hurt.

Paul, you agree with one world government do you?

Who do you want to hold sovereignty over Oz, someone from China, perhaps India, or would you prefer someone from Africa?

Personally I am not interested in reporting to anyone but an Ozzie, so the greens have no place in my life, or country.

Dear Belly,

I have been active in politics for about 66 years and am 86 years old.

Left/right means little. On the extreme right was Hitler. On the extreme left was Lenin. Neither worth a pail of warm spit. I don’t want to be on any right/left spectrum. In 1932 in the US there were two bankrupt parties – the Democrats were an alliance of big city political machines and of southern white supremacists. The Republicans were an alliance of corporate interests and northern bible bashers.

Norman Thomas had been running for president unsuccessfully six times on a non-Marxist Socialist ticket, but he was promoting ideas like social security, control of corporate abuses, environmental consciousness which were absent in the two major parties but were much the same ideas that the current Greens are presenting.

Franklin Roosevelt got nominated for president by the Democratic Party in 1932 and ran a fairly conservative campaign. Due to the Depression the people threw one set of rascals out and threw another set in. When FDR got elected he introduced the New Deal which incorporated most of the ideas that Norman Thomas had been promoting. These ideas were accepted by many because Thomas had made them familiar to people.

The Greens are promoting ideas which go beyond passing out goodies to sections of the electorate. In Queensland neither party is willing to control fracking which can destroy our aquifers. It is a Green concern as are other concerns which are shared by neither party. I don’t see the Greens as ever taking government, but I see Green ideas picked up by some thoughtful pol in one of the major parties after the public has been educated to them analogous to the way FDR brought Thomas' ideas into the New Deal. Labor and the Libs are currently bankrupt as the democrats and Republicans were in 1932.

I hope for little from CN and little from Labor if they had won. Maybe life can be injected into them by the Greens.

Hasbeen: I note you made reference to people from "China, perhaps India, or would you prefer someone from Africa? Why did you single out these people you didn't mention people from the USA or England didn't mention Europeans, why?
"Personally I am not interested in reporting to anyone but an Ozzie, so the greens have no place in my life, or country." You do not care what they represent so much, as long as they are not Chinese, Indian and heaven forbid African. I would much prefer to be represented by a Nelson Mandela from Africa, than a James Saleam, even if he is 'Ozzie'.

Ultimately, the scientific reality of climate change and global warming and the effects that it brings will force change of its own accord, assuming that the scientists are correct and or that we do not come up with a means to deal with it in another way.

And though I am pro *GreenBrowny* I have never been a fan of the carbon tax.

And certainly, I was very much opposed to the lack of transparent and accountable public consultation pre the decision being made.

I think *Belly* may be correct that indeed this will turn out costly for the *Greens* in the future in terms of their growth.

(Incidentally, I had a look at your TAPP reference, came across some interesting historical political trivia on Wikipedia, a dead link to the current "party" if it can be called that, and a mish mash of unprofessional stuff on a 3rd party hosting site regarding the political aspirations of an ex military character, now medically discharged.)

I am curious about your pro *Shorten* stance though as I actually have a piece of correspondence from him. A lawyer mate who read his blather assumed he was a junior staffer of some description. My view, is that he is clearly a party man, and champion for same above and beyond the interests of the people he was purporting to represent at that time. Still, I would be interested to hear more at some point.

Incidentally *Shadow Minister* I think that it is a shame that the dexxie chewing nurses aren't being subjected to mandatory drug testing and as for the thieving of hospital stocks, well, maybe something will be considered now that a corruption watchdog is being set on the AFP and Customs, who also need to lift their game if they are to prevent envelopes containing 1 or 2 Cannabis Cup winning seeds being prolifically imported into the country.

Paul that is the type of small minded reply I should have expected from a green. Is it too hard to believe that I might have a genuine reason for this statement? This smug self satisfied condescending attitude simply adds to the unattractiveness of the party.

I mentioned the 3 areas I would expect to control a world government because,

1/ As they have the largest populations, I would expect them to dominate.

2/ The days of supremacy of Europe the US & Japan both economically, & militarily are well & truly numbered in my opinion. Even without any stupidity of UN control, these peoples will be dominating sometime soon.

I believe that European/US peoples, & us due to our association with them, would be treated rather harshly by any world government that was established. The harshness with which they treat their own less privileged would make anything else unlikely.

I also would expect an application of something very similar to China's cultural revolution would very shortly follow the establishment of such a government. I expect it would be our self styled elites, who promote this foolishness that would be the first to find themselves manicuring their new masters lawns, with nail scissors.

Fortunately Asians are a bit more choosy who they join with than foolish westerners, so they will prevent this rubbish occurring for us.

All views have value, really?
A blinkered look,even a brief one, at our country history will show the last near left government was 1972 till 1975.
And that, part fragmentation of the ALP lead to formation of the greens.
And it is the ALP certainly the greens, who once claimed conservatives won office and ruled.
Without majority vote.
Once first past the post voting would have seen Labor as our government every election.
Thoughts,wishes, dreams, opinions,change nothing.
Politics is pure maths.
Just as a far more sure footed break away the Democrats died, so will the greens.
Dave congrats on age and all that but I remain baffled at your opinion of my link.
Greens are for the most part well educated.
Surely then they have seen, both their rise on Labors problems.
And in recent state elections their failure to gain or even keep numbers at Labors lowest point.
Abbott intends a DD election after he takes office,Australia will give him a mandate in the senate.
Greens are obstructionist and unconcerned at majority views, or consensus

Hasbeen: I took your comment for what it is, racist. as it only referred to peoples by race, China, India, Africa ans 'Ozzie' Africa is a colonial patch work of states some 54 countries with a total population of around 1 billion people, unlikely to make a bid for world domination at this time. The United States is the worlds 3rd largest country by population with over 300 million and the worlds leading economic and military power, yet you failed to mention them at all. Your words "or would you prefer someone from Africa?" the smug implication in this is Africans are inferior people You go on to say "personally I am not interested in reporting to anyone but an Ozzie." Again the only criteria for your reporting is they must be of the "Ozzie" race, again race is set apart, regardless of their mental state, regardless of their ideology as long as they are "Ozzie"
In reply you then do some crystal ball gazing as to what you expect to transpire, nothing of which was mentioned in your first post on 'world government'. It seems a rather hastily contrived set of assumptions at best. material I would expect to find on The Australia First Party's homepage.Small minded is the person who bases their argument solely on race.
Do you agree with this statement? "Many Australians fear that something is happening, that is a real threat to Australia and to their lives and livelihoods." if you do then you may find The Australia First Party and not The Greens would be the party for you. Freedom of choice, something I believe in. Please come back and tell me you are not racists.

Hasbeen I do not, never have, think of you as racist.
I saw in your post nothing other than something many would have said.
We disagree more than agree, but the charge is inflated.

Belly wrote: "Greens are obstructionist and unconcerned at majority views, or consensus"

Dear Belly,

Greens are concerned with what they think is correct. If that is the majority view or the consensus it is already expressed by the major parties. In such cases there is no need for the Greens to make any sort of a statement. Green comment is unnecessary. Where Greens think the majority view or the consensus is not correct they will challenge those views. We will not roll over and play dead when we disagree with the majority view or consensus. Both Labor and Libs are for fracking. We will not go along with their views. We will not agree to the poisoning of the aquifers for present and future generations.

David f sure that you are a good person, I can not refrain today April fools day,from restarting my truly held campaign to enlighten folk about the greens.
I disagree with you.
Totally.
You will remember the right of Labor,Catholic Church right DLP.
No less an evil than the Republican religions right under Regan.
Greens have too damaged the ALP, and all non conservative forces.
We will all see how much soon.
You seem intent on only that single narrow path, greens way or nothing.
A path to no place,hiding from the masses.
I remind you, my link above added to the view climate change is real, and as it was not greens you did not want me to post it?
I sadly,understand greens have lurched away from Masses, and badly damaged my party, for no result, voters will soon remind the greens their wounds to come are self inflicted.

Sorry for the delay 579, but you ask, Does anyone know what they voted for.

Yes, they voted to toss labor out on their ear.

At the end of the day, if for some reason CN does no better, we will be no worse off.

Somehow, I doubt this will be the case.

Dear Belly,

There is absolutely no reason to support your party as opposed to the Libs. Don't blame the Greens for the fact that your party has lost support. Blame Whitlam for being the first to recognise Indonesia's taking over of East Timor and covering up the murder of journalists. Blame Hawke for selling Mirage Jets to Pakistan for 36M and by so doing increasing tensions in south Asia and jeopardising a 960M per annum trade w India. Blame Keating for supporting economic rationalism which screwed the Australian worker and for signing a treaty with the Indonesian butchers. Blame Rudd for bringing in chaplains to the schools and exposing public school children to missionary nonsense and ignoring the consequences of uncontrolled population growth. Howard only continued the wrongheaded policies of Labor. It's much easier to blame the Greens than to look at the destructive Labor policies. There wouldn't be any need for the Greens if either Labor or the Libs had decent policies rather than being merely machines that promise goodies to get in or stay in power.

Dear Belly,

You referred to the DLP. The DLP by splitting the labor forces kept the Labor Party out of power. The reason the DLP split off was because many unions at the time were communist dominated, and the Marxists had a big influence in the labor movement.

Perhaps a little history is in order. Before WW2 in Europe there was a United Front. That brought together all 'progressive' forces including the communists. Remember how the United Front ended? There was a big betrayal. Stalin and Hitler signed a treaty on 23 August, 1939. That was the end of the United Front. Stalin even returned to Hitler German Communiste who had fled to the Soviet. The treaty was followed by the German and Soviet invasion of Poland in September of 1939 starting WW2 in Europe. The Communist parties all over the world called it an imperialist war and opposed any opposition to the Nazis until Germany invaded Russia on 22 June 1941. Thwen they had an epiphany and saw how evil the Nazis were.

I shudder to think of a party in power in Australia that was heavily influenced by Marxists. The DLP did Australia a great service in keeping the Labor Party of that time out of power.

Belly posts: "Hasbeen I do not, never have, think of you as racist.
I saw in your post nothing other than something many would have said.
Of course many would say likewise, there are plenty of racist people in the world, and they are not all white, not all Anglo Saxon in origin. Some are black, some are Asian, some are very conservative people.
Many of us are racist through fear of others, they look different, they speak different, their customs and values are different. We fear they are going to take our jobs, take our homes, impose their customs and beliefs on us. These fears are natural feelings, but we need to overcome these predigests and realise these different people are the same as us, human beings.
So much political capital has been made out of 'boat people', put in their position I would be doing exactly the same, I would be a 'boat person'. As a humanitarian society we have a moral responsibility to treat refugees who arrive at our shores, with dignity, show them respect, feed, cloth and shelter them, and at times take them in permanently, nothing less. Not as one conservative Laborite once put it to me "Australia should blow the B's out of the water,"