I am spending more time on this pointless discussion than necessary.

1. Boaz is incapable of determining the difference between a single smack to the backside of a toddler and smacking an adolescent girl.

2. Boaz argues semantics - claims he hasn't taken moral superior position, when in fact he constantly preaches that a beliefin christ is the only way to be and has suggested that R0bert and I require 're-education' in the past.

3. I have made similar points to Snout And R0bert regarding corporal punishment, yet Boaz only acknowledges Snout and R0bert as being reasonable and singles me out. Biased? Absolutely.

4. As stated, if Boaz didn't want personal comments made about his behaviour, then he shouldn't provide personal anecdotes about what he does to adolescent children - hits instead of talks.

Bye

Going to R0bert's thread now where I can expect sane and reasoned opinion. Biased? Absolutely!

I forgot to mention that when I was in "shop" class I made a paddle for my High School Principal dad; Yep he ended up using it on me! :)

Firstly, I would like to question the knee-jerk common cultural, ‘if there is a problem – apply prohibitive legislation to it.’ There are usually better ways of dealing with issues and the training of children is one of them.

I use the word ‘training’ deliberately instead of ‘discipline’ because ‘discipline’ has become a euphemism for ‘punishment’ and punishment is only invoked when there is a transgression – training starts at a very early age. I also prefer the term training because of the connection to the training of animals particularly dogs about which I do know something. Yeah, you can train a dog with a stick, you can gain high compliance but you end up with a frightened and/or vicious dog with anxiety issues. You can also train a dog with non-violent training methods and you get a much higher level of compliance and a much greater range of competencies without the fear, anger or anxiety.

Most people do not know how to properly train a dog and use the method they used or saw when they were children, ie beating the dog when it does something wrong. Most people raise children the same way. Whether smacking is illegal or not doesnt have to be important - when people realize that they can get much better results with non-violent methods they choose non-violent methods. The trouble is that people have to be taught these non-violent strategies. People have to be schooled in non-violent child raising techniques in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons that people have to be schooled in non-violent dog training techniques.

Raising children with non-violent training methods gives a much higher level of compliance and a much greater range of competencies without producing the fear, anger or anxiety of violent methods.

And if you don’t think ‘smacking’ is violent imagine someone twice your height and four times your weight belting you with a wooden spoon that is the length of your arm.

Boaz, you are sinking fast here. I'd call it quits pretty quickly if I were you.

>>Chimps physically discipline their offspring. Your basis of differentiating us from the rest of the animal world (By your presuppositions) is...what ?<<

Is this intended to be some form of justification on your part?

Because I certainly didn't accuse you of chimp-like behaviour, or draw any inferences or conclusions from the comparison.

My view is that we have moved beyond chimpy habits, and are obliged to use our ever-so-slightly more developed brains to work out an alternative strategy to physical violence.

I know you don't accept this, but even non-Christians have moral values. And as it happens, this particular non-Christian chooses not to use physical violence against his offspring. If that is a sin in your eyes, then we can just park it along with all the others, can't we?

>>Violence is an innappropriate term to use in regard to "corporal punishment", (which is the more appropriate term) and I believe we have a cultural understanding of common sense when it comes to such punishment.<<

This is the "everybody does it, so it must be OK" school of thought, coupled with the convenient appropriation of a euphemism.

Once upon a time there were civilians killed, now they are merely collateral damage. One man's violence against children is another's corporal punishment, I guess.

>>There were MANY occasions where I could have 'lost it' and "whacked" my daughter up to and after that incident and did not<<

This is good. You curbed your aggressive instincts. You should be proud of yourself.

>>Pericles the 'bad Christian' ploy is beneath you mate<<

I was simply referring back to the "spare the rod and spoil the child" quote, which I hadn't realized before is in fact biblical.

Fancy that!

Robert..well said (thanx also Rob513264)

"A sore butt is easier to get over than growing up being told you are worthless or with the idea that you parents don't care enought to discipline."

Which... to those with the ability to look beyond my melodramatic 'capitals' intro, is the issue.

My capitals were designed to attract interest. The idea that a small group of people in DEFIANCE of the clear majority (90%) of Australians would seek to outlaw a cultural practice which has been proven, is annoying to say the least. I want to draw attention to THAT issue.

No Pericles, I'm not suggesting you accused me of Chimp like behavior, but in terms of your presuppositions about life, it would have been quite in order and I would have accepted it.

Scout, I praise those who deal with the ISSUE and don't take out some personal vendetta against me when I reveal something of myself.
When I read that you were seeing a psychiatrist I did NOT jump in and give you a serve about 'seee...' etc.. did I ? Your personal issues are yours. Do me the same kindness please.

I have to add one more point to my key points before, which I sadly neglected to include.

ALL discipline should be administered in a manner consistent with conveying "care, concern and love, where the interests of the child are at heart"... as long as they understand this, as Robert said, a sore bum is quite easy to get over.

The only 'whack' I never got_over from my dad was an unjust backhander to my face. All the rest were fine by me because I knew I'd done wrong.

CONCLUSION. Don't let this whacko group the 'childrens lobby' determine how we bring up our children !

BOAZ...
The very fact you began this thread at all speaks for itself.
Why are you trying to justify this position?
Do you feel a measure of guilt?

Has societys stand on this challenged you as a parent?
That you ought to feel ashamed of the way you parent your child?

I think it is understood that your temper is a problem for you..the way you are careful to state that it could have gone beyond what you intended but didnt...It seems as though you have to keep reminding yourself to not 'let loose'.
In which case you should never ever raise a hand in anger at your child ,anger out of control is a dangerous thing...anger management issues....There is help for this..we are not talking about a parent who gives a small smack to the bottom of a toddler for safety reasons to prevent a dangerous situation...this is more ominous than that.