'Violence begets violence'..
The cycle of violence must be broken at some point in families such as the one I came from...
I had a less than perfect role model in the form of my now deceased father and children do not,those that come from these homes, learn appropriate anger management so that they have the correct blueprint to equip them for situations that are challenging and require calm behaviour and emotions out of control, abusers dont know anout self love,self worth,compassion etc and often dont know how to change, for they too were abused.When we know better ,we DO better.

A smack is not just a smack..if ur partner 'smacks' you for some misdemeanour...you would be hurt and feel violated...so does a child..children are not stupid..communication is the key.

Some kids get a bit harder to parent than others ,still there are other methods..
If a child is about to dash out under a bus...i dont know.. but where do we draw the line?

Anger stems from fear...not understanding anger means that the cycle will continue and be inflicted on the next generation...

The problem with using physical punishment against a 12 year old girl is that it leaves her with two options. One is that she can decide that being hit is not okay and that you are way out of line, in which case you threaten the trust and communication channels you have built up over the years. That trust is going to be vital as she enters adolescence, Boaz. You said that it was the most stupid thing she could ever do. It’s possible she could prove you wrong about this at some stage over the next six to eight years.

The second option is she might decide that it’s okay for a man to hit her under some circumstances, especially if it’s a man she loves…

With boys, I think it works a little differently. The problem with corporal punishment here is that it teaches boys that it’s okay to whack someone if you believe you’re in the right and it’s necessary to drum home your point. Being bigger and stronger than the whackee is optional but desirable. This is a very dangerous learning for a six foot 75 kg adolescent, especially if his frontal lobe function is impaired by alcohol or testosterone or stress hormones, which happens with monotonous regularity. My colleagues in Juvenile Justice spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to get young men to unlearn this. Please make our job easier by not teaching them this in the first place.

BOAZ,

Rereading your posts I gather your daughter is now grown, and things have worked out well... I'm glad. I got a bit confused about the timeframes!

I stand by my general points, though.

Snout

I know this will sound entirely cynical, but I have read many of Boaz's posts for a long time now.

And, well, of course he would claim his daughter is fine, but we only have his word.

Belting the bejesus out of any 12 year is poor parenting indeed.

Hitting any child is unnecessary. People who hit do so because they lack basic communication skills and have problems with anger.

I was never beaten as a child, yet somehow wound up married to an abusive man, who was beaten by HIS father. My ex hit me when:

a) He couldn't 'win' an arguement - that is I continued to disagree with him

or

b) I 'disobeyed' him - like cutting my hair or going out with my friends.

Boaz's daughter disobeyed him and instead of explaining why he was so concerned about her safety he threatened her safety and wellbeing by physically abusing her - a 12 year old is clearly old enough developmentally to negotiate and establish behaviourial guidelines with.

Boaz failed parenting, some may claim he was brave admitting this, but he claims that his behaviour has not had any long term effect on his daughter - thus mitigating his poor behaviour. He also knows that there are others on OLO who will back up his actions or at the very least agree by their silence.

There is no excuse for hitting anyone as a form of punishment.

Thanx for all your contributions, but WOAH.. this was not actually meant to be about 'me'.... enuf already :) It was mean't to provide an opportunity to explore the issue rather than me. But.. I suppose in analysing my own situation, we can do both. Never mind.

Ok..update.

My daughter is now 22, I asked her the other night if she remembered that 'incident' and yep..she sure does. I asked "Did you feel I was wrong or right to smack you for the reasons I gave on that occasion ?"
Her answer was "Well... I never did it again, did I" ? then she added, H*_*_*_*_ also never did it again. (her friend)

I have wear any criticism of my parenting skills that may come my way, its all good. Haven't ever claimed to be perfect.

One more thing. The other day, I was sitting watching TV and my daughter was home (Temporarily laid off ..casual). She was very quiet, then, in a low voice, she said "Dad....I'm pregnant" and burst into tears.
I've often wondered what I'd do, or how I'd react if I ever heard those words. Well, for those who may wish to know, I just took her in my arms and said "Hmm..really?" It was clear that she felt devastated that she had dissappointed me and her mum (she said this), and given that there is nothing to do but move forward, I simply expressed my love and support for her. She did ask me about the boy she is going with in regard to marraige, and we already agreed about him, and they do wish/plan to marry, so, its a 'chronology' issue rather than a moral one.

But let me just conclude on the smacking theme again. Robert said it.
'One of many tools' and age and circumstances should dictate how we act in this regard within a framework of restraint. Irrespective of any personal failing by me, this is the message I hope to convey.

Scout I need to disagree with you on "People who hit do so because they lack basic communication skills and have problems with anger".

I don't think thats a fair generalisation. I think you are making to much correlation between abuse and mild corporal punishment as discipline. There are those who abuse kids by hitting in anger and using hitting as a first port of call, they are not discipling their kids they are abusing them. There are also those who fail to discipline kids (the other end of the spectrum) or discipline based on their mood at the time and they also are abusing their kids.

It sounds like your ex came from an abuse situation, mine came from the other side, never hit, spoilt and left with little idea of the consequences of her actions. She also hit when she was unhappy, not because she was hit as a child but rather because she has not learned to restrain herself.

I was brought up with the knowledge that if I continued to push the point one of the discipline options would be rapidly painful to me and involve minimal inconvenience to others. It has not created any sense that I should be able to go round sorting out problems with others by bashing them, almost the opposite.

It seems to me that the main opposition to controlled smacking comes from those who've either not been smacked as kids or those who were abused, not from those who experienced it as as one of the consequences for breaking boundaries.

R0bert