*I think NZ should tell them (Heinz) to rack off and make their sauce in the country the paste comes from, thereby fixing the problem once and for all for us *

Ah the unions and those wanting jobs, would be screaming blue murder!
Out you would go, at the next elections. Its the economy stupid,
as Clinton wisely noted.

*I don't think we can continue this folly indefinitely Yabby*

Well there is your problem, Thinker 2. The 200'000 people affected
by the MV industry, want their jobs. They are happy to see the Govt
buy them and pay off the companies. 200'000 people spread over a
few seats, that is enough to swing the next election. I remind you
what happened when John Howard got into bed with the timberworkers
in Tassie, Mark Latham ignored his pragmatism. It cost Latham the
election.

Once again, no politicians really gives a hoot about MV manufacturers,
but they sure care about the jobs that they create, for without them
they would not be in Govt. So its really voters acting out of good
old self interest who control all this. If your family depended on
the GM production lines, you might well be singing the praises of
Govt payments to GM, to keep your family fed.

Enlightened self interest swings elections every time and its not
companies who vote, but people.

Actually I don't understand where you get off Yabby.

So your saying it is necessary and incumbent upon taxpayers to prop up anyone's non viable business as a matter of course is it?.

I presume it is also your view, that it is not the Govts role to ensure the wages and working conditions of the very same taxpayers are viable ,nor to protect from exploitation from the very same dishonest and greed driven international corporations lining up with their hand out for taxpayers money.

I acknowledged your question, allow you to exagerate with numbers and you still fail to address any of the issues at all, but instead waffle your bunch of right wing values that you think you have successfully inserted into the thought processes of the masses. Claiming short fixes involving taxpayer handouts in favour of the wealthy are the be all end all solution.

I also asked if we cant just go back to making our own sauce. Are you saying this is not viable ?.

In fact what is your point other than to attempt to stifle this discussion by advocating welfare for the wealthy.

hey...let me have a swig
at the sauce bottle/saucy bottle blonde

[or whatever ol ruddy said]

anyhow tomato sause isnt tomato
that not tomato sause isnt 'made'.in oz..[so what]
if it was made in oz..[with a subsidy]..the mulitnaional..that owns it only takes the proffits offshore

[...likely not paying any tax at all..

like so many selling ore os

the carbon tax thingy...should be put on coal...gas etc

[we must have near 500 exporters
mining the stuff..out of the ground[releasing..methane]
poluting the waters...and airs and soils..in carrying the stuff os..via our free govt subsidised ports

so lets tax them big polution exporters
and stop bribing car manufacturing...over priced cars
heck tax the imports polution tax...the bigger poluters..the higher the tax

the more poluting..
the higher the tax rate

i guess some have too much freedom
and others just get to pay for it..then sometimes sup at the dregs

there are so many issues to the topic
our pensions..invested in worthless yet mandated 'investments'

stop all govt gift giving
no picking winners..its time 200,000
stoped overtaxing the rest of us

*So your saying it is necessary and incumbent upon taxpayers to prop up anyone's non viable business as a matter of course is it?.*

Absolutaly not, Thinker 2. If it was up to me personally, I would
withdraw all subsidies and let them sink or swim. OTOH I also take
the trouble to understand how our political system works and the
factors which drive it. Fact is, pork barrelling works and people
vote for their enlightened self interest. The MV industry is large
enough and affects enough people, to be a seat changer. So pork
barrelling it is, from both sides of politics. Don't blame the companies,
blame the voters. Companies simply crunch the numbers
and without pork barrelling, there is really no good reason why
keeping manufacturing MVs in Aus, makes any sense at all. It would
be far cheaper for them, to shut their operations in Aus down.

*I also asked if we cant just go back to making our own sauce. Are you saying this is not viable ?.*

Well we still do. It is up to consumers, as to which sauce they
buy, Australian or imported. They vote with their wallets every day.

*In fact what is your point other than to attempt to stifle this discussion by advocating welfare for the wealthy.*

I advocate no such thing, Thinker 2. I merely point out that its
votes which drive the system. How politicians decide to buy them,
is up to them really. Plenty of votes are up for sale, to the highest
bidder.

Thanks for responding to my queries Yabby, it seems we are in agreement for a change.

And this can only be discovered through communication when people are actually addressing the issues. I agree, it is votes that drive the issues.

But I cant blame the voters in isolation, because the problem is that the voters are constantly misinformed by vested interests and their cohorts in the media. If they (the voters), had a real set of pro's and con's to weigh up, I believe they would make more informed decisions. Being forewarned is being forearmed. Without the facts without knowledge and the capacity to absorb it (e.g. education) the individual is totally disempowered.

None of us posting on OLO really know WTF is really going on, and with that we can only speculate, theorise, and argue the smaller points. If you really want to modernise your capacity to communicate you need a Twitter account , where discussion has digressed from what you had for breakfast, to combatants dissing each other in clever phrases.

And this is where freedom has gone.

It still appears we don't agree about the role of Gov't ,Yabby.

"I presume it is also your view, that it is "not" the Govts role, to ensure the wages and working conditions of the very same taxpayers are viable, nor to provide protection/regulation preventing exploitation by the very same dishonest and greed driven international corporations lining up with their hand out for taxpayers money.

It appears we agree, that they shouldn't get handouts Yabby, but do you see a role for Gov't in assuring/preserving ethics in the master servant relationship ?. If this is not the role of Govt , what do you believe it to be ?.

I reckon this is also a fair question.