Arjay, I know I'll come across as a fwit for having to ask for clarification, but I didn't understand "They are stealing from the people via inflation and have the audacity to present it as a debt. We do not need private central banks creating money to equal our increases in productivity and inflation.This should be done via sovereign Govts that we elect."

I always thought an "increase in productivity" was another way of describing "getting the same for less"… which wouldn't seem to require creating money.

WmTrevor, I did not know that banks were allowed to create money from nothing until 3 yrs ago.Do not feel ignorant or foolish as many highly intelligent people I know,have difficulty in understanding this.

When we as individuals are more productive or create something new,we add to the productivity of our country.So new money must be added to equal it.You may be paid by your employer more money,but notice how much of it get consumed by tax,be it direct or indirect.Much of this tax ends up in the pockets of the Central banks and their associated investments.

Who creates this new money to equal your new toil and creativity? Mostly it is foreign private Central banks,who loan to our private banks and our Govt at interest.Our Govt with the loss of 4 State banks and the Commonwealth bank must borrow to pay for infrastructure and many Govt services.

Through the fractional reserve system of money creation they used to create some of our productivity debt free.We have never been free of debt via the European central banks but Keating and Labor made us real debt slaves.When Keating sold off the Commonwealth in 1996, Howard had to bring in the GST to service the debt to OS central banks.30% of our mortage money comes from OS central banks.We are borrowing from OS to buy our own land.In the commercial world OS borrowing is much greater.

In the 1970's our foreign debt due to borrowing was $3 billion.Now it is over $ 600 billion.

View this brilliant DVD by Bill Still,'Secret of Oz' then you will really understand.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g
Last yr it won the Biff International Award for best documentary.

Just ignore Rstuart and Pericles,they think that their bank shares will evaporate if too many become aware.Our economy will boom and a new Renaissance will dawn if we have the courage to take on the Global Central Banks.

Pericles:>> No-one is pulling magical strings, guys. Yes, some people are getting extraordinarily rich at the expense of the rest of the population. And guess where the vast majority of new billionaires are being created right now? That's right. China. And how are they doing this? By making and selling stuff. Where are the Global Elite in all this? Have they relinquished their top-dog status?<<

Russian billionairs, Chinese Billionairs, they still aint invited to sit at the table of The Club of Rome.

I am still trying to figure out what restart is on about; one moment he is offering you some spurious links to a Jeanie bottled Coefficients; and the next thing he has latched onto Pericles skirt like a baby without a bottle looking for some brownie points;
Pericles wil not share his Jam Bun Mr rstewart;

Slightly confused Egalitarianisms of No standards and no concept of anything and no ideas to offer;

But Pericles did not pick up on that ether ; instead chose to have bathed in the adulation of a fan , pelting his head like a good little puppy ; How scientific and factual is that . hhehe

ALL:
<Slightly confused Egalitarianisms of No standards and no concept of anything and no ideas to offer>

I'd say this is a fair comment and more or less true of all of us bar the free-marketeers who want to scrap government altogether and leave the world's ills to sort themselves out "naturally", that is via the dog eat dog mechanisms of the free-market. But the notion of a free market is oxymoronic as it is more a case of capitalisation of "natural" advantage and the accumulation of a power bases rather than anything that might be called "fair trade".
The notion that getting rid of monetary funds and central banks will restore any kind of equilibrium to the world is fantasy--indeed small-minded; it would only restore the world to the kind of strife that prevailed before.

Pericles:
<Have you any idea what would happen if the US defaulted on its debt?>
While this does bare sober consideration and should perhaps give us pause, we are likely to see this rhetorical question played out in the real world any case, as it's surely only a matter of time before before unsustainable sovereign debts become bankrupt States. And even if creative accounting on a global scale heads this off, it doesn't alter the fact that the whole exponential phenomenon of human growth and consumption within a closed grain silo has a bleak future.
So while I'm not as blase (which suggests a hint of optimism?) as I take Pericles to be--in that I see the current human social experiment as headed for extinction--I also have no practical suggestions to put forward, i.e. suggestions that have the faintest hope of being taken up.
I certainly would not condone the indifferent mechanism of a totally free market--as if that would fix anything or has any hope of getting up.
There's no way out of the perilous situation the globe's human inhabitants continue to exacerbate without biblical pain imo.
Arjay, your "revolution" in Europe is just a hissy fit; reformism rather than a radical agenda for real change.

there is much to that you say
with which i agree

however the cure is only too simple
the bible forbids ursury[intrest]
and the koran forbids[ursury]

the torah forbids ursury
[except to goyum]..non jews
and that is the means to end the lie's

all debt is deemed debt payable
but only principle debt[by bank to govt]

the laws of bankruptcy must be changed
ALL DEBT MUST BE REPAID IN FULL

no cents on the dollar
for even the most clever lawyer

all contractualised 'ursury'
is termed odious debt..but the principle must be repaid

'new money'...will have a transaction fee
dying will have death duties

banks are not for proffiteering
but purely a service[ran as if government owned]

we must use the fractional lending principles
10%..'creates'..the 90%..that gets paid back in full

[just like bankers alone can do today]

[noting the banks lending to banks
has created a fractional reserve real/present danger]

its just a shame those who know..
still think we can borrow our way out

what drunk ever gets cured
by giving him two more bottles of booze
in return..for his 'promise' to give you 3
the [that]..principle is just insane