Now that the Carbon tax has been imposed upon Australia. What happens next. With Getup help Australia is going to get Clean Energy.

Getup: An independent body, the Climate Change Authority (CCA), headed by former Reserve Bank Governor Bernie Fraser, to take the politics out of climate change by setting emission reduction targets for Parliament to approve;
- Funding to close down 2,000 megawatts of coal fired power stations.

There are a lot of unanswered questions:
When are the power Stations going to close?

What of the money that is being collected in the Carbon Tax?
Apart from Administration costs & the amount being returned to compensate the people for the cost of the Tax to them.

Will that money be used to setup clean energy Power Stations?

Where will these C.E.P.S.'s be?
As soon as one starts to be set up the Greenies will stop it. "Not in my back yard." Past Greenie arguements. Wind power creates too much noise, kills birds & stops cows milking. Solar Farms greate heat sinks & generate super storms, etc.

Will the Home Solar rebate scheme continue?
The cost of Solar Panels are still too high for the poor to average family to afford. A break even system needs to be about 2.4 kWs.

Bernie Fraser independent, now I've heard everything.

What of the money that is being collected in the Carbon Tax?
Jayb,
That's going into a vote buyer fund for the next federal election.

Individual:

...You remain as always my favourite cynic...

apparently the target aims at 2000 meg a what?..reduction
just enough to take out the brown coal..[thats the target]

lets allow the solar cells to prove their worth
turn off the brown coal for 3 days
see how solar cats the mustard

better a few days now
than the future..
when its all signed and sealed...ie effectivly gone

there is so much[TOO much]...clever spin
only 1000 paying..oopps only 500 paying
your not paying...but your getting a bailout

when we did cut our useage
the price went up
revealing the lie/con/spin

why cant parliment...call a lie a lie?
why did the juliar sign get called as a foul on tony
you must not take those who pour blood on walls as being anything but graphitee..or thearter..

oooops looks like i had another stroke last night
must have been from laughing about the pm cutting a polution phart
[see previous post]

anyhow catch the topic later

I think we need someone like Dick Smith to take the Government to Federal Court to PROVE the carbon tax will have any benefit to Australia. Once he [or anyone] does this, the court MUST allow witness for the accuser. As Prof Bob Carter keeps reiterating " they will loss every time". That's the only way this insanity will be exposed for what it is. It's interesting to note that all anti-carbon tax rallys have NEVER been mentioned in ANY media before the event, only AFTER. I have been trying to get to one for a year now but can never, ever find anything that tells me when they were due and where they were to be held. What does that tell you ?

When you cut your power usage, the price of electricity MUST go up. IE: the LESS you use, the more it costs. Which means the more you use the less it should cost, yes ?. Absolutly CORRECT! Amazingly, most people are totally ignorant about power generation and delivery which is why when someone who want's to set you straight, is ridiculed by the powers that be. Save the planet, cut power, save money- I am amazed that a power engineer doesn't take the Gov to court over blatent lies. You want to know [As a famous Prof puts it ] why is it so.

you can't get more energy out of a system, than you put in. That's a law of physics. Because coal has more total energy locked inside it than anything else [ except oil ], we get back more in electrical power more than it costs to dig it up and burn it.

You can't store base load electricity because we haven't yet made the perfect battery that’s dirt cheap and gives us nearly the same energy [ or power ] as we pump into it. We aren’t even close by a country mile. So electricity is something that is used 'on demand'; that is, it must be available 24/7/365 for us to use as we need it.

In short, the LESS power that is being drawn from the generator, the LESS efficient the whole system is. You can't shut down a generator like turning off the engine of a car at traffic lights to save fuel. When an electrical load changes, it changes at the speed of light although it may increase gradually - but the actual change is instantaneous.

A generator for power is MOST efficient when it's supplying that power at 95-100% load capacity. In other words, it's doing the most useful work. You get the best results from a system when it's doing the work it was built for

Ans: You don't know how to use the internet.

As for Dick Smith, perhaps you might change your mind ... read:

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Dick-Smith-declined-carbon-ad-role-report-pd20110530-HC953?opendocument&src=rss

Hey pepper, can you tell us how much CO2 is produced from burning only 1 tonne of coal?

An approximation will do, thanks.

Bonmot,
I'd hazard a guess that it's less than one hour at Bathurst or an hour in the PM's jet.

individual

I asked pepper if he knew how many tonnes of CO2 you get from burning 1 tonne of coal.

It seems you don't know either and can only guess in terms of car races and planes.

Thanks anyway

Cheers Bonmot,
by the way, would you know how much emission is caused by one hour at a Bathurst race day ?

This is all well & good, but will some of you overly sensitive types answer the questions. No one, so far, has even attempted to answer one off the questions I've asked. What, "not my job."

So if and when we say enough is enough and we stop mining coal, do you really think other countries will just sit back and let this happen, do you think that perhaps they may just think we are easy picking considering the untapped wealth we would have locked up and thrown away the key for.

Think again, after all they don't care about reducing co2 like we do.

Think again, after all they don't care about reducing co2 like we do.
rehctub,
Yep & if the proponents had the sense to think then we wouldn't have this debate in the first place.

Sorry JayB, you asked some serious questions but I got derailed with pepper's statement/question:

>> I have been trying to get to one (anti-tax rally) for a year now but can never, ever find anything that tells me when they were due and where they were to be held. What does that tell you ? <<

One only had to read the papers, search the web, or listen to radio shock-jocks before any of these pre-arranged events.

Anyway, gotta rush - will have a crack at your 1st question tho';

>> When are the power Stations going to close? <<

Not anytime soon - we can't shut them down without having adequate alternative power generation, from a mix of sources.

I understand why Tony Abbott is trawling the country and airwaves spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt - but these coal mines can't be shut down overnight.

Bonmot, these coal mines could be shut down, if we wanted to go to all our lovely new gas finds. It would be rather silly, as the gas is really more valuable as an industrial input. Pity we will sell it off, rather than use it that way.

They will never be shut down by alternative power generation, as there are none that work.

Just ask the Spanish why they are bankrupt, if you don't believe that.

Hasbeen, glad to see you think so too.

However, like I said, there will be a mix of alternatives.

As we all understand (well, most of us anyway) that too won't happen overnight.

Gas - yes
Solar-thermal - yes
Nuclear - yes
Wind - yes
Geothermal - yes
Biofuel - yes
Tidal - yes
and so on.

Last time I looked, they work.
Last time I looked, it's horses for courses.

We're not talking 'tomorrow', Hasbeen.
We're not talking 'every' continent, country, city, town, suburb or village, Hasbeen.

For Oz, we too will have a mix.

Just ask China, America, India, Europe, and even little ol' Oz if you don't believe that.

Oh dear, Hasbeen:

>> We all know that CO2 is plant food, & that is in low supply in the atmosphere at present, compared to much of the planets history. <<

CO2 concentration for the last 10,000 years has been stable at about 280 ppm

In the last 200 years it has escalated to about 400 ppm

An increase of nearly 40% in only 200 years, Hasbeen.

The trend is getting worse Hasbeen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg

What I can't understand Hasbeen, is the attitude of the 'blind, deaf and dumb' - metaphorically speaking of course.

Hasbeen, can you explain why 2010/2011 'matched' 1998 record high when:

1998 was an extreme hot El Nino year
2010/11 was an extreme cold La Nina year

Hint: ain't the Sun hun.

Indeed, neither direct nor indirect solar influences can explain a significant amount of the global warming over the past century, and certainly not over the past 30 years.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

Suggest you then go to the advanced (black diamond) explanation tab, you know maths, right?

Jayb, we should show our appreciation for such as GetUp, WWF and ACF. After their last press conference they have demonstrated just what a corrosive element they are for Julia.

All we need now is some of the reality emerging from the rest of the world to hit our media and it will all go belly up for them.

The Welsh are revolting, sorry, let me put that another way, the Welsh are in revolt and threatening to secede over the wind farm infrastructure destroying their countryside.

The US has pulled their funding from the EAU/CRU and the IPCC, they have also blocked their own EPA from legislating on carbon pollution.

Al Gores beloved Chicago Climate Exchange collapsed in December 2010.

The EU Energy Commissioner has rejected call for the EU RET to be lifted to 30% with the comment “industry emits, we need industry”.

The Netherlands in January has withdrawn from the EU RET and is going nuclear and coal.

The UK has legislated to allow green energy tariffs to fund nuclear as part of their renewables target.

The UK recognizes that more conventional power generation has to be built to provide “spinning reserve” for wind farms than that needed to meet demand growth.

The EU Carbon Exchange has lost Kroner 40Bn in fraudulent transactions and is operating at 20%.

Windfarms average output is 25% of capacity and is 20 times more costly.

Denmark gives away most of its wind generated power because it is produced when not needed.

Isn’t it great that our media has made this “news” available in time for our debate? (Not)

Dear spindoc,

You should really get more up to date information.
For a start why don't you Google a list of countries
that already have a carbon tax? Finland, 1990, Sweden, 1991,
UK - 2001, Several states in the US, Canada since 2007.
Check out Norway. With a similar abundance of diggable wealth
Norway has invested much of its surplus wealth to renewable
energy. When students learned about the Greenhouse effect in the
1980s Norway was about to instate the Petroleum Fund (like
Australia's Future Fund, but drawn from the
surplus wealth created by the extraction of
fossil fuels in Norway). Despite having
one of the largest exploitable coal reserves on earth, Norway's
domestic electricity supply comes almost exclusively from hydro
and wind. Norway's various wind projects are estimated to supply
anywhere from 20% to 50% of all European electricity imports in the
future. This country, despite being ABLE to rest on its coal,
natural gas and oil reserves, as Australia does has invested in
the FUTURE of global energy. At the same time bearing it's load of
global emission-reduction (30% of 1990 levels by 2020
- more ambitious than any developed economy).

Over the next 30 years, more and more countries will
discover how to reduce global emissions.
Australia is already lagging.
We need to catch up or we will become
a wasteland if we don't.

Someone asked how much effect the tax will have.
On Andrew Bolt's blog today there is an answer;

But we can actually put a figure on it, thanks to a peer-reviewed
paper published in Nature in 2009 by researchers led by Professor
Damon Matthews, of Concordia University’s Department of Geography,
Planning and the Environment.

As Matthews reported: “The new research shows that ... each emission
of carbon dioxide results in the same global temperature increase,
regardless of when or over what period of time the emission occurs.

“These findings mean that we can now say: if you emit that tonne of
carbon dioxide, it will lead to 0.0000000000015 degrees of global
temperature change.”

Yesterday Gillard again boasted: “What I want to do is reduce carbon
pollution by 160 million tonnes in 2020.”

Let’s assume Gillard will in fact manage that cut, which will involve
spending more than she’s announced so far. Let’s assume that the
relationship between carbon dioxide and temperature is as strong as
global warming theory claims.

Now multiply that 160 million tonnes Gillard claims she will save by .0000000000015.

Answer: 0.00024 degrees.

Yes, Gillard’s tax-and-spend package - her gamble with the entire
Australian economy - will at best save one-4000th of a degree of
warming by 2020.

Think that’s worth it?
->
Hmmm well we keep hearing AGW promoters asking for peer reviewed
info so here is some.
It just feels about right to me from a purely guessemetrics point of view.

Lexi: Norway's domestic electricity supply comes almost exclusively from hydro and wind.

I have absolutly no doubt that the above statement is correct.
But... & it's a big BUT! Topagraphicly Australia & Norway have nothing in common. Er... well except large amounts of Coal. However, Norway abundent reserves of Ice & snow melt combined with high steep, very steep mountains means they have an abundent supply of harvestable water without large dams. Then they have a coastline that is nothing but very high steep wind blown mountains & unpopulated. Of course they can have ideal wind farms & Hydro Electricty generation at full potential all the time.
Where in heavens name are you going to get that in Australia. Australia is a hot dry, flat Continent. Or haven't you noticed. Maybe you spend your time playing Virtual Reality Games on you Iphone. I don't know.
Con't over_

Hmm... Let's play Virtual Reality.
Let's put a large wind farm at Marybrough. Oh, wait a minute. That's been tried or they tried to do that. The Greenies stopped that project. it would kill the little birds & stop the cows from giving milk. ditto for most other places a wind farm has been propesed. OK, so winds out. Nasty wind turbines anyway. Base load Hydro Generating plant. Er, where are you going to put that. Firstly you are going to need a massive supply of permanently flowing water. Hmmm... most of Australia is in serious drought most of the time. So we'll have to put in some massive damms. Opps, Dams... Dams. No! the greenies won't allow that. It destroys the environment & all the little turtles & Lung fish will die. No, Damms are out. So, no Hydro. Hmmm.... Solar Farms. Still in the experimental stage, but it shows promise. There's a bit of a town in Queensland using a Solar Farm, well, part of one, seeing it was never completed. The greenise stopped it. Something to do with causing Heat storms. Well the Greenies ARE insisting in renewable energy, but not in my back yard. Beats me!
Really the least expensive way would be for the Government to give every household in Australia a free 2.4kW Solar System for their roof from the money they are going to collect from the Carbon tax. Every industrial building & highrise office block can off set their Carbon Tax by installing a hugh Solar System system on their all their buildings. I could see that going some way towards reducing the Coal Powered Generating Stations & Co2 emmissions. Speaking of which...

There are many ways of reducing CO2 one would be to eliminate Carbonated soft drinks. Let's see. Let's do some Maths. 25 million people in Austalia. Average one can per day per person. One can has about 7.5 grams of CO2. Thats 187.5 Tonnes of CO2, conservativly per year on soft drinks alone. I didnk calculate the extra for beer. You could prpbably double that figure on Beer alone. that's 562.5 Tonnes. Now that's something the Greenies haven't thought of as yet. No more Soft drinks for the kids & no beer for the guys. ;-)

Oh, & I just love the way that guy keeps bobing up with a big grin. Maybe he knows something we don't know.

Dear Jayb,

Firstly my previous post was in response to the wrong assertions made by spindoc. Now in response to your claims - do you realise that the
land mass of Australia is twenty four times larger than Norway. The vast interior of this country is virtual desert. As you may be aware that a large, flat, desert area is heated by the sun, has extreme temperature variations from day to night which results in high-wind conditions. This together with the sun and the vase emptiness of the land make perfect conditions for solar and wind power. In addition subterranean heat-sources can also be utilised for generating power.

As everybody knows Australia has all the perfect conditions to produce
renewable energy. I don't play computer games. I'll leave that to you
because it appears that's all you're capable of doing. What I have been saying is any body who's been to school should know. Do you want to be PM as well as Mr Abbott? After all that is his entire ambition
and you certainly seemed to have swallowed his propaganda.

Lexi, I wasn't really having a shot at you. I was just trying to point out the topigraphical differences for the type Power generation they can use & we can't.

Lexi: do you realise that the land mass of Australia is twenty four times larger than Norway. The vast interior of this country is virtual desert. As you may be aware that a large, flat, desert area is heated by the sun, has extreme temperature variations from day to night which results in high-wind conditions. This together with the sun and the vase emptiness of the land make perfect conditions for solar and wind power. In addition subterranean heat-sources can also be utilised for generating power.

I do know what the vast interior is like. I spent a bit of time walking all over it 40 years ago. Yes the temp. variation does produce wind, but not a high wind & not constant & for about an hour in the morning & afternoon it's dead still. No PG. Not good conditions for Base load PG. Solar Farm, now that we could do, but as you should know, "NIMBY" (gee, that's appropriate for greenies, isn't it.)(still no good for BLPG) way out west is a long way from population centres & transmission losses, without BL, will be horrendous. Peak power usage is early morning & early evening, exactly when SG is non existant. So your arguement for "Perfect conditions" has serious flaws. Deep Rock Fracture PG. Yep, good idea. Very expensive to set up but I can see the value, although efficiency is only about 80%. It is BL though. Then again, would the Greenies allow that to happen. Poisoning the aquifyers, releasing toxic gas, etc, etc. Possibly even eventually destroying Earths internal engine. I think not.
Con't

Computer Games, I tried that about 20 years ago. "123 dead, 123 dead, 12... stuff this.. chuck. I have been called an Authorities worst nightmare or best friend, depending if their arguement is correct or spin. God I heat spin. I have been called a "Spock" "that argument isn't logical Captain." When I am preposed an arguement I do a Matrix of the pros & cons. I let the Matrix do the talking & that's where I go regardles of personal feelings. I just brought the wife a new car. I did the same exercise with that as to what was best for her. She has limitations. I do a Matrix everything.
Trade Qualifications, Trained killer, (I've got my 2.5) Fitter, turner, boilermaker, Some woodwork,& some electrical & electronics, Associate Dip in Management.(TAFE.) So I know about how things work. Oh, large diesels, 22" pots. Not your normal domestic poofie types. As my grand daughter says," Is it broke? Give it to Pa, he'll fix it."

Lexi,

You said <<my previous post was in response to the wrong assertions made by spindoc>>

Interesting that the news items quoted which didn't get much coverage in our media and now they are just "wrong assertions".

They are not assertions they are news items and I just passed them on. If all that is left is to shoot the messenger I guess the bottom of your barrel needs another scrape!

Dear Jayb,

Thanks for your civilized and well reasoned response.
I'm not an expert in the field and the information
that I get is from written sources, databases, and a
bit of common sense. I'm sure that the experts in their
appropraite fields will be able to come up with much better
innovations for renewable technology than anything I or
you could suggest. And that's what this is all about as your
thread title says - "Clean Energy."

Dear spindoc,

Scraping the bottom of the barrel? I was merely referring
you to more current information that I thought it appropriate
for you to at least be aware of so that you would not continue
making sweeping generalisations. Perhaps you should go back
and re-read my post - it was merely in response to the information you were providing.

Lexi, I'm not an expert either, but I hope you & others can see what I'm getting at.
It's all very well to shout clean energy, It's another to implement it & that is where the problem lays.
I still think the Government would be better off forgetting the suppliments for the poor & pensioners (& I'm one). A better solution, as I've said before would be to give every household in Australia a 2,4kW Solar System. It'd be a one off large expense. Pensioners wouldn't have to worry about how they are going to pay the Leccy Bill. The saving to them would be worth more than the paultry $510 suppliment & $10 a week increase. Juliars way is $1030 for the year to cover a $1500 Leccy bill. Still short by $470. With the solar panels the pensioner savings would be the whole $1500. Something Pensioners could do with. So the Government could save the $1030 pe person & put it into subsidising more clean Energy. It would creat a Win, Win Situation.

Lexi,

Don’t you ever feel just a little bit silly?

I posted ten media articles that are relevant to public information on our current debate. They are current international media releases but have received little coverage in our media.

You may choose to refer to these media releases as “wrong assertions”, you may even choose to refer to them as “sweeping generalizations”. In the end what you are signaling is that whatever media release you read, from whatever journalists, from wherever in the world; if it is a threat to your orthodoxy it must be neutralized.

Attack independent critical thinking, Totalism, shoot the messenger, discourage dissent, polarized group think, Opposer warnings, blind adherence to single orthodoxy, obsessiveness, sense of persecution and deceit.

Yes, we do get it, but you leave us little room for anything other than ridicule.

Where on earth is your embarrassment gene?

'clean' energy..is like 'clean' coal
the focuss group loved it

politics..plays poli-tricks..to get into power
and serve those who HELPED them..get into power
rupert is allowed to self regulate
and mugs pay tax

i hear the costs of pulic transport are going to go up 3%
i se all the electric refrigeraters..and frozen food
that is going to get an extra carbon tax on their dirty power

[so food going up a small bit..well thats purely spin..
[as long as the shop pays power bills..or needs gas cooking]

transport fuel tax...in 3 years
conveniantly drops it from the current debait

se how we are constantly being decieved
yes the tax theshold goes up..
but so too the tax rate

YET THE HIGHEST TAX RATE DONT CHANGE...lol
clean/green..they are buzzwords
greenhouse gas...[there are many gresnhouse PROUCING gas'ssss]..
nitrousoxide is worse that c02..[from nitrogen/food farming]
methane..[mining/gas production]..is 100 times worse than c02..

YET we exzempt farmers..and big petrol
and are going for clean/green gas
that we obtain via DIRTY methods
thus isnt,,'clean'

is coal fired clean
by burning coal gas?
[the poisen has to go somewhere..like into our watertable]

the two biggest poluters
who run the 2 party scam..
via focus groups..and the sellout media
are ,...lol clean..only because its in their spin

Dear spindoc,

Where on earth is my embarrassment gene?
Obviously not in the same place as yours
if you can ignore all the scientific facts,
rational, and evidence that is put forward and easily available
in reports, scientific magazines, various databases, and other
credible sources. Lord Monckton, shock jocks, the Murdoch media,
and Tony Abbott and Co. are not the "experts," I tend to rely on
for my information. BTW, If you don't like my opinion of you,
you can always improve.

Dear Jayb,

Fair enough.

Lexi where is your research experience, when you have not found, or not admitted the existence of, the massive & rapidly increasing amount of evidence that global warming is a failed theory.

That you don't look saddens me.

Here is the real problem.
It is not clean energy that should be our aim but alternate energy.

Peak world coal can be expected around 2025.
Peak oil occurred in 2006.
Peak gas, sooner than many think, but still being argued about.

We will need these fossil energy sources and minerals to manufacture
the energy systems of the future.
Our current aims will also rob us of the finance need to make the transition.
It will take more than 20 years to make such a transition, but we will
not make it if we get diverted into shutting down coal mining and
concentrate on suppressing the use of fossil fuels.

If we do not change our aims and abandon the current headlong anti
carbon campaign we will not get to a sustainable future.
If we continue as we are a good business will be breeding draught
horses and building sailing ships.

Dear Hasbeen,

I don't for a minute doubt that it saddens you. It saddens me as well
that you don't seem to be able to Google the information that's there
on the web to find. Go to your local library and ask for help.
I'm not going to do your research for you. If you really want to learn
the facts - go and seek them. They're not a secret.

Oh and yes, Shadow Min, Hasbeen, Spindoc, Lexi etc, you do believe,
do you that this is not all about the weather, but to enable the
setting up of another Ponzi scheme to rescue the financial system.

It is now official that the derivatives and CDOs, (Carbon Debt Obligations)
trading is being readied. The banks look like being the
first off the starting blocks, but I am sure they will be joined by
a fleet of shonks.

Tell me, how will they measure the CO2 that is expelled from whatever
process gets taxed ? It is an invisible, tasteless, very thin gas.
All the process controls in the world can be fiddled to give duff
readings and the government inspectors which they have just appointed
no doubt at some fantastic salary, would have no way of knowing what
is really going on in the plant or other business.

It is taylor made for corruption. This is exactly what has happened in
Europe. The Russian oligarchs made billions out of the European
scheme. Where do you think those Russian billionares suddenly came from ?

It was laughable to hear Wayne Swan prattling on about the checks
that would be made to ensure accurate returns to the government were
made. They have no end of problems in Europe with fraud in their
scheme and do you really think the government will be able to control it ?
Gord, they couldn't even install pink batts without a monumental fraud.

What makes you think they can manage something like this ?

Anyone who thinks coal will be cheap and plentiful should read this;

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-07-15/end-cheap-coal

My father inlaw is a power station engineer, my wife is a CEO of 2 power generator companys, I've had 44 years in electrics. Oz stations are the cleanest on the planet, 5 stage scrubbers [ screens, electrostatic, fluid etc ]eliminate 95% of pollutants, most of the scenes you see are cooling towers, emitting H2O not CO2. The ash is used for road mix or other produsts or returned to ground [ It IS carbon unless it is transmogrified to something else ]. I used to build elecric distribution cable. We have the generators to power new zealand AND new Guinea as well as oz, there are over 420 generators available.
what we DON'T have is the infrastructure to get it anywhere [ profits LOOTED by the labor governments. No I don't know how much CO2 is emitted but question is eroneous to me at this point since CO2 is a benific to all life.

Pepper: Oz stations are the cleanest on the planet, 5 stage scrubbers, screens, electrostatic, fluid etc. eliminate 95% of pollutants, most of the scenes you see are cooling towers, emitting H2O not CO2. The ash is used for road mix or other produsts or returned to ground.

Way to go pepper. Most of these people are Larte Greenies. They think Milk comes from a carton. Wait until they find out you have to squeeze a cows tits to get the milk out so you can put it in the carton. How embarrassed must those cows must be. They dont have to think. They just go with the Greenie flow, which ever way it goes.

I was on the Sunlander going past tne Invicta Sugar Mill when a lady called me to the window & pointed out to me the terrible polution coming from the stsck. I had to explain that that was just steam. She said, "Oh, is it" 5 minutes later she was pointing out the pollution to someone else. So I told her again in front of her crowd. Ypu can see the steam for your self on Google Earth at 19. 31' 01.65" S, 147. 06 '23.22" E. Giru, Nt Qld. Oh, the smoke stack from the diesal Generator is just a bit to the north of the steam stack. No smoke.

None of them have atempted to answer any of the Questions I asked. They just want to winge about something they know nothing about.

i note that northern territory[and fed govt]
spent millions on a 'solar farm'..

[news is that its being mothballed
mainly cause it dont make power at night

ie the official excuse is
we must wait till 'storage' capacity catches up]

now aint that typical
no one needs light in the day

clean energy?
the buzzword should be peak load energy
ie reliable affordable energy when we need it

just cause its cheaper to do 'it' now
how cheap is doing the wrong thing

is the green lobby
getting too much funding/subsidy...too clever by half?

is enron thinking
[the most clever guys in the room]
the right people to be getting bailout/subsidy

who knows
but if the rupert inquiry has proven...anything
police can find crime..

if they look
[reporters can...apparently]

why not police?

there is a conspiricy of silence
on just why police..only police victimless staute law..

and ignore true crime..
that is hurting all of us..[active acts of treason]

how do you sleep at night

Interesting Rabid. Sun Oils in Darwin has been recycling Motor Oil for about 40 years that I know off. Ther3e was a Oil Recycling plant mooted for tbe Beaudesert area (Bromelton) but the Council knocked it on the head. Not the sort of industry they want to encourage into this area. ?. Cooking oil has also been collected for 40 years, that I know off. But I don't know what they do with it. I know it does get recycled.
My father never brought oil for his car. He recycled his own. He had a couple of old glass wine flagon bottles. He'd fill with his old oil & let it sit for a year. All the sediment went to the bottom & he syphoned off the clear oil, heated it to drive out any moisture then he added a tablespoon of powered graphite. Then, back into the car. Then the process started over again. He'd lose about a cup full of oil in the change over, that's all. His therory was that the oil never degraded. It was contanimates & water that caused the wear in the engine. He did change his oil filter about twice a year. It was one of the old types that you could take apart & change the toilet roll.

The problem with vegetable oils is the scale of the problem.
Vegetable oils will be fine for those who will not get a ration of
diesel that enables them to continue business as usual.

Food production and distribution will get priority over both fuel and land.

There was a documentary on the History channel last night called the Prophets of Doom.
In it a number of people in the fields of water, finance, economics,
energy and a couple of other fields discussed what we are facing in
the way of risk to our way of life and indeed civilisation.
It was of course more American orientated, but then we are facing
similar problems.

Those who read the energy bulletin and The Oil Drum sites will
recognise two of those taking part, James Kunstler and Nate Hagens.
The upshot was that they agreed that water is the most urgent risk
that we face. The global warming scene did not even get a mention.
It was not stated, but I suspect it was because global warming
requires business as usual but these other problems will rule out
any interest in global warming. It will not be of any significance
by the time we are worrying about water, oil, coal and gas and very
little finance availability.

The current financial difficulties in Europe and the US show that
all these problems together with world food shortages and the arrival
of peak oil signal the start of our contraction.
What we are facing is a complete restructure of our way of life.